Talk:Cosroe Dusi

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Changing town names to Ladin or Germanic spellings

Latest comment: 10 years ago7 comments3 people in discussion

There has been debate about the names of towns in the Tyrol; whether the Italian or Germanic name, or both, is more apt in a title. I am not going to get into that debate, which seems to matter a lot to a few.

This article is an article on Dusi. The sources use the names that I used. I am not sure what names Dusi would have used himself. For all I know, he used different names for different ears.

I care that the name that I use, links to the correct town, regardless of the town named. In one of the references, one could access both germanic (or Ladin) website names, but on the whole the largest source for this article is that in the Treccani encyclopedia, which uses the italianate names.

I do not think changing the names of the towns in this article matters or adds to our understanding of the Italy-trained Dusi. In addition, I am not one to think that in the art world there is a need to restrict names. I prefer to think town-names, like artist-names can be varied. Rome and the eternal city are one. There are many artists with multiple names or spellings of names. I do not go around websites trying to homogenize the naming convention. I would not do that here. Rococo1700 (talk) 22:48, 11 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

On principle I totally agree: an obstinately enforced consistency is seldom the best way to handle things. Anyway, in the specific field of South Tyrolean place names a rigid application of our non-ambiguous naming conventions throughout all articles has proven solid, impeding the long-lasting edit-warring between users (they have come close to zero after years of annoying fights...) and therefore peacemaking. However, I admit that there might be cases, where the allowance of exceptions is sensible and well-founded. Unfortunately, I don't think that Cosroe Dusi is such a case...

That is, the main reasoning behind my edits in this article was the very fact that stuff like Selva dei Molini (litteraly invented in the first decades of the 20th century) is simply anachronistic in 19th-century contexts, since these names didn't even exist at those times. It would be comparable to writing Immanuel Kant was born in 1724 in Kaliningrad, Prussia, or Manuel II Palaiologos died in Istanbul, Byzantine Empire. I guess you would deem that inadequate and historically unjustified, too. I understand your effort to be as close as possible to what the sources use (nevertheless you chose Tyrol instead of Tirolo...), but I'm also sure you acknowledge the problems with using Italian names in the German-speaking parts of pre-20th-century Tyrol. Cheers, --Mai-Sachme (talk) 14:12, 12 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Again the sources uses those names, as a compromise why not say germanic name (now Italianate name) in the same way as Cherso is now Cres. I am not sure what Cosroe Duci, an "italianate" or Venetian in training would have called his towns. I'm not sure he would have used the germanic name. Others may know.Rococo1700 (talk) 23:39, 13 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

I wouldn't give any importance to speculations about what Dusi himself might have used. However, as I said: we can be dead sure that he didn't use Selva dei Molini. That name didn't even exist in the 19th century, its creation by Ettore Tolomei dates back to the first decades of the 20th century. Before that time, Mühlwald didn't have any kind of Italian name (Egon Kühebacher: Die Ortsnamen Südtirols und ihre Geschichte. Die geschichtlich gewachsenen Namen der Gemeinden, Fraktionen und Weiler. Athesia, Bozen/Bolzano 1991, ISBN 88-7014-634-0, p. 262)...

More important seems to me that the usage of an Italian town name in the German-speaking parts of pre-20th-century Tyrol is a plain anachronism. Since we seem to still disagree here, I'll go and ask for third opinions. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 10:07, 14 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Response to third opinion request:

Hi, I read your request on the 3O page, and I also read this article and your respective arguments on this talk page. I propose the compromise as follows:

name of the town should be Mühlwald in the article
on the appropriate footnote(s) that cite(s) Enciclopedia Treccani (or also possible other sources referring to Mühlwal as Selva dei Molini) it can be added a comment such as "N.B. this sources refers to Mühlwald with the Italian alternate name Selva dei Molini" (By the way, I would also specify on relevant notes that some sources are not in English: Italian for Treccani, German and Italian for the Selva dei Molini website, etc.)

Hope this is acceptable for you both. Regards -- LNCSRG (talk) 17:18, 14 March 2014 (UTC) LNCSRG (talk) 17:18, 14 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Sounds reasonable to me. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 12:26, 15 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

I see nobody opposed my suggestion, yet the relevant changes have not been done so far. If nobody objects here in the next 24 hours, I will change the article accordingly. LNCSRG (talk) 14:34, 18 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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