Talk:Child pornography

Requested move 16 December 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Per consensus, WP:COMMONNAME. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 02:03, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

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Child pornography → Child Sexual Abuse Material – I was previously undecided on what to do, but now I feel that a discussion is necessary. Recently, I noticed that the NCMEC began using this term because it is more accurate than the current title. I also did further digging, and found that the Department of Justice also uses this term. According to Google Trends, the move towards this terminology started in 2021, and has only gained traction since then. I am can't think of any reason to keep the title as it is, but I'll start a discussion anyway. Scorpions1325 (talk) 01:33, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONAME. At least that's my impression. But I am not actually going to search for either term on the internet to confirm that. Walrasiad (talk) 02:14, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose move per COMMONNAME, and definitely oppose that particular capitalization. O.N.R. ^(talk) 09:43, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
• oppose No evidence provided by nom. Ngrams [1] and g scholar [2] [3] clearly show current title is overwhelmingly dominant—blindlynx 16:48, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
• Neutral WP:ARTICLETITLE doesn't depend only on the most common name but also on being precise and neutral. Having an article called "Child pornography" can be interpreted as an oxymoron and imprecise and misleading such as the same as writing an article called "Slave volunteer". One person could also make the assertion that the current title is not neutral such as if someone were to move the page about "Psilocybin" to "Shrooms" simply because it's more common especially for the people who enjoy it. I cannot agree with the suggested new title if only because of the capitalization which is not how we name things on Wikipedia but I do see how the current title is not neutral or precise and could be due for a change. Jorahm (talk) 18:45, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose The proposed name narrows the scope, since it requires abuse. Sexting between teens would manufacture such material, but does not necessarily involve abuse, unless the nominator proposes that all minors are abused whenever they make such material, whatever the circumstances, even if they are a boyfriend and girlfriend who are under the age of majority. (such as the current U.S. law defines it, which makes such teens have a lifetime label of registered sex offender, for filming themselves for their same-aged partners). Instead of "sexual abuse" it should be "sexually explicit" because of the production by teens for their teen partners, which is still illegal and still covered by this article; Minor-aged sexually explicit material or a more descriptive title Material in which children and minors appear in sexually explicit situations because the categorization of child is different in different jurisdictions, where the limiting age of child may be significantly younger that the oldest minors, but they are minors in whatever jurisdiction, as they are below the threshold age for the production of such material. Note the the age of majority and the threshold ages for the production of such material varies across the globe. ;;; OR we just keep the current name, since it is the common name. ;;; the nominator has not used non-US sources to support the rename, so this could be U.S.-biased as well. -- 65.92.247.90 (talk) 06:09, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per very clear WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2024

Add https://www.preventcp.org as a relevant resource for preventing child pornography, in the organizations section. EvelHazelnut (talk) 18:46, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but no. We don't link obscure websites that offer advice like "Lean in the direction of prayer and asking God for help" [4] as a means to deal with a global issue. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:58, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Gamer's Dilemma

I feel that this is largely out of place with the page as it discusses Simulated child pornography rather than "real" child pornography, should this be moved to the aforementioned page or similar ones or be kept as is? MagiTagi (talk) 16:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

I second Magi's opinion, I believe it should be moved elsewhere as it seems to be conflating the two as if they were equivalent which said relation is hotly debated at very best and can be seen as outright slanderous at worst. Though this might just be because I am not sure if the "Gamer's Dilemma" is referring specifically to hyperrealistic simulations made to be indistinguishable from actual child pornography, or instead was referring to/also including cartoon/anime pornography such as lolicon/shotacon where a direct relation between the fictional material and realistic depictions of actual child sexual exploitation is pretty much nonexistent, in general, I think it is important that we differentiate the two from each other, but I still think either way it should probably go to another article. GigaMigaDigaChad (talk) 00:08, 10 March 2024 (EST)

Requested move 16 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) SilverLocust 💬 06:54, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

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Child pornography → Child sexual abuse material – While "child pornography" has been generally accepted as the WP:COMMONNAME for this topic, the article title policy is clear that that is not the only thing we must consider, and that article titles must also be neutral. I think there is also an argument that the common name has shifted in more recent times, with news outlets, academia, government agencies, and NGOs increasingly shifting to use "CSAM" (and similar terms).

As is outlined in Child pornography#Terminology and definitions, there has been a broad shift towards using "child sexual abuse material" (or similar terms) as the more neutral term that avoids the inaccurate description of abusive material as consensual pornography. This usage is supported by experts and academics as well as industry/law enforcement organizations including NCMEC (ex) and the US Department of Justice (ex) in the US, the UK Home Office (ex) in the UK, etc. Per the DOJ: While this phrase still appears in federal law, “child sexual abuse material” is preferred, as it better reflects the abuse that is depicted in the images and videos and the resulting trauma to the child. In fact, in 2016, an international working group, comprising a collection of countries and international organizations working to combat child exploitation, formally recognized “child sexual abuse material” as the preferred term. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 17:05, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. I don't think that the current title implies that child pornography is consensual. Besides, "child sexual abuse material" is used only by a small minority of reliable sources, while "child pornography" is still the mainstream definition by a big margin. Only five of the 86 sources in this article seem to refer to this as "child sexual abuse material". Titling this article with a new term used by only a minority of reliable sources would not be neutral, at least not until the paradigm possibly changes in the future. Badbluebus (talk) 21:40, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
• support per nom—blindlynx 00:58, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
• Strong oppose. Many reliable sources continue to call it "child pornography", so it remains the current common name. O.N.R. ^(talk) 07:04, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
• Strong oppose. The nominator has provided no evidence that child pornography is a non-neutral term. The opinions of these agencies don't appear to be widely held views.Esolo5002 (talk) 17:39, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, per others. It is the common name. Svampesky (talk) 18:43, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose for all the reasons we opposed it last time and the evidence that it is non-neutral is slim and do not outweigh COMMONNAME. PARAKANYAA (talk) 19:30, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Support the common name is inaccurate and reflects misconceptions that child abuse sexual material could ever be in the same category as consensual pornography. The current name is non-neutral with a bias towards advocates of legalized pedophilia which is something we should strongly oppose regardless of how it was normalized in the past. Jorahm (talk) 16:59, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: The term 'child pornography' is the established and commonly used phrase. Waqar💬 17:19, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per very clear common name. Nothing has changed since the previous RM nine months ago. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:11, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. While I can understand the motivation of those who wish to encourage alternative terminology, 'child pornography' is currently by far the most commonly used term. Wikipedia reflects current usage, it does not set out to change it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:48, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2024

Add this to the Distribution and receipt section: In 2023, the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children’s CyberTipline received 36.2 million reports of suspected child sexual exploitation, an increase of 12% from 2022.(Redacted)

References: TruthToPower2022 (talk) 20:53, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

References

 Done Scaledish! Talkish? Statish. 03:38, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

I have removed some copyvio from this-- -- Diannaa (talk) 13:40, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Moving to Child sexual abuse material

Just wanted to add my support for this article to be moved to "Child sexual abuse material".

Multiple sources have already been shared above, I'll add one: Task Force Argos, an Australia police unit, clearly explains that "porn" is made between consentent people. Speaking of "child porn" (with children or even infants) completely inaccurately reflects that the children have been abused.

https://play.listnr.com/podcast/disclosed

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podcasts/387-hunting-warhead

LexisVD (talk) 07:58, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

This has already been discussed twice before. You can read the two discussions [5] [6]. Badbluebus (talk) 17:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC)