Talk:Castro District, San Francisco

Emphasis on Langley

I have a concern regarding the emphasis placed, in this article, on real estate agent Paul Langley. As a historian who specializes in urban and LGBTQ history and who is involved in an ongoing research project about the Castro, I can safely say that the historical interpretation advanced here - that Langley's "active promotion of the neighborhood as a gay center and his many community activities in support of building a gay community there contributed greatly to its success as a gay neighborhood" - is not a viewpoint that can be found in any of the sundry published academic studies that are devoted, in whole or in part, to explaining the origins of the Castro district. Certainly real estate agents played a role in the area's transformation, and a role that deserves to be given proper weight and an accurate rendering. But Langley was not the only such real estate agent. In fact, to suggest that he was sufficiently more important than the others so as to warrant being mentioned by name, seems to me a highly tendentious interpretation, i.e., one that does not belong in a reference work. I invite replies and further discussion. --SRisk1979 — Preceding undated comment added 06:46, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to…) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. RickK 06:58, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

I moved to San Franciso in 1980 and what historical information I have was taught me by a mentor friend of mine who moved to the Castro around 1960. Broadly, there was a Beatnik movement in the in the 1950's in the Northbeach neighborhood. Thereafter in the 60's the Hippie movement began, which was centered in the Haight Ashbury neighborhood, and was typified by "free love" which in turn spawned the gay movement. As the Gay Movement split as a separate culture, gays began to move into the Castro neighborhood in the 60's, just over the Buena Vista hill. Prior to that time the area to the north of Castro Street was predominately Irish, and to the south was Scandinavian. The area was a run-down neighborhood with dilapidated houses and metal bars on the shop windows of the Castro. The gays began to purchase the old Victorian homes and restored them which kicked off the Victorian "Painted Lady" restoration movement. A new gay identity emerged which brought people out of the closet and normalized gay behavior. There is an interesting documentary, The Cockettes, which shows original footage of the period of San Francisco and Gay culture, and features Divine, John Waters, Peter Mintun, and others. Other notable benchmarks in gay history in and around the Castro are the Death of Harvey Milk, and although a New York action, Stonewall had a major impact on the culture in San Francisco. Sexual freedom reigned until the late 80's when AIDS came to town. At that point Gay Pride redefined itself and gay neighborhoods spread throughout the major cities in the US. It was no longer necessary to come to San Francisco (or New York) to be gay, and The Castro neighborhood blended into the multi-cultural/ multi-ethnic tapestry which makes San Francisco one of the best cities on the planet. Mokiach 06:39, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

origin of name

i have just removed two conflicting attributions, one to Joaquin Ysidro Castro and the other to José Castro. my brief googling was not able to ascertain which is correct. i assume the district was named for the street and the street for one of these historical figures. still, attention from someone with better sources would be appreciated. Aaronbrick 02:32, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Needs Revert

Someone Vandalized this page from my computer it needs reverting. I tried to do it but there was an edit conflict. I hope this means someone else is already on it 65.125.163.221 07:06, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know what flag that is?

File:Castro Market 16th.JPG

Does anybody know what flag held by the guy on bike is, the blue-black-white one with a heart? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mongol (talk • contribs) 22:54, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

That's the Leather Pride flag. it mean's he has leather pride, as well as interest in a leather fetish. you can see those all over my home town of San Francisco. Stevo D — Preceding undated comment added 06:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Contradiction

The body of the article states that Castro has a 'gay majority', and yet the demographic section states that gay people account for 41% of the population. Which is true? The information contradicts itself as it stands. Leoniceno (talk) 22:01, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

The second external link

Firefox stopped me from visiting it, saying it had been marked as a philsing/malware site.--Occono (talk) 23:11, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and remove it--Occono (talk) 17:40, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

See Also Contents?

Are either of these links (Project Scum and the 49 Mile Scenic Drive) really relevant to this page? SCUM is pretty minor and the drive barely even goes through the neighborhood. Emhawkins (talk) 05:43, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

OK, I'll remove this. Thanks. Emhawkins (talk) 02:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

re: History

If there is any definition of "white flight," it certainly applies to the exodus of Nordic-ancestry people from the aging Victorian flats of Eureka Valley in the 1960s to 1970s. Therefore I have re-characterized their action from the colorless "moved" to "fled." 173.228.44.72 (talk) 04:58, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Largest Gay neighborhood?

Most significant maybe, but largest? How about Chelsea, NYC. Not sure, but it won't hurt to check. Norcalal (talk) 09:13, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:40, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

The Castro, San Francisco → The Castro — No reason to DAB CTJF83 04:14, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

• Comment shouldn't "The Castro" redirect to Fidel Castro and not this neighborhood? Then this should not be moved, and the redirect should be repointed. 184.144.163.245 (talk) 04:58, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
  • How do you figure? Why would someone type "the Castro" to reach Fidel? If anything, it would just be a type of "Castro". CTJF83 05:03, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Too much scope for confusion. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:00, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
  • That's what WP:HATNOTES are for. CTJF83 16:18, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
    • Indeed. However in this instance the addition of "the" is not enough, in my opinion, to justify removing the geographical qualifier. Most people looking for the Castro will not type in "The Castro", but simply "Castro" and will get to the disambiguation page in any case. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:01, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Should we move this article to simply Castro District? I'm not sure the disambiguation is necessary. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:23, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

America's first gay neighborhood?

A sentence in the introduction claims that the Castro "is widely considered America's first gay neighborhood, and is currently the largest and best-known." That it is the largest is well documented, and that it is at least one of the best known is undeniable, but that it is the first is almost certainly not true. Both Provincetown and Greenwich Village were well-known for their gay populations long before the Castro emerged as identifiably gay (according to this article) in the 1960s, and even before gays began moving to the Castro after World War II.

This article itself even contradicts that claim, when it says, "Many San Francisco gays also moved there after about 1970 from what had been the formerly most prominent gay neighborhood, Polk Gulch [...]." If Polk Gulch was formerly the most prominent gay neighborhood in San Francisco, then how can the Castro be the first gay neighborhood in America? "... is widely considered ..." is weasel-talk anyway and strongly suggests that the statement is at least partially some editor's personal opinion.

I searched back through several revisions looking for the source of this statement, and in doing so I encountered so many interim revisions (most notably changing "the world's first" to just "America's first") that I gave up trying to find the claim's original appearance.

Since the "first" part of that grandiose claim is highly debatable, and "best-known" is neither incontestably true (on the East Coast at least, Provincetown, Key West and Chelsea are gay meccas at least as well known currently as the Castro) nor documented here with reliable references, I am going to amend that statement to the following:

The Castro is one of America's first and best-known gay neighborhoods, and it is currently its largest.

--Jim10701 (talk) 16:15, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Small section of Castro at Chenery

I reverted an edit that asserted that Castro ends at 30th Street. There's a small and little-known section between Chenery and Bemis in Glen Park: See https://maps.google.com/maps?q=castro+and+chenery,+san+francisco&hl=en&ll=37.734069,-122.431297&spn=0.008909,0.018475&sll=40.365277,-82.669252&sspn=4.39424,9.459229&hnear=Castro+St+%26+Chenery+St,+San+Francisco,+California+94131&t=m&z=16 for proof. --tgeller (talk) 19:32, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

'castro street' extends over the hill into noe valley and up into diamond heights, but the 'castro district' does not. this point is not clearly covered in the article. --emerson7 01:17, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Naturism

Apparently there has been controversy in this locality over humans going about their daily lives in their natural state, opponents seeking to criminalise it on the basis that it makes insecure observers uncomfortable:

• https://www.businessinsider.com.au/why-is-nudity-illegal-2012-11
• https://www.businessinsider.com.au/nudists-suing-san-francisco-2012-11

This seems salient to include in this article somewhere, but none of the sections extant now seem related. I realise some people would consider possession of a naked body a sexually-related matter and lump it together under the LGBTIQA+ banner, but naturism is unrelated to MOGAI or SOGI. 49.195.122.225 (talk) 04:38, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Strange focus on Finnish military history

I wasn't expecting the first 2/3s of the page to be mostly about Finnish diplomatic and naval relations with Russia in the 18th and 19th centuries. I find this pretty strange and off topic for a page about "The Castro District", especially since a lot of it appears to be copy/pasted from other articles where the text is barely on topic for *that* article. (Looking at you, Kalevala.) I understand that there's a lot of Nordic and Scandinavian pride around here, but the focus of this one group to the exclusion of the many others who lived here during the times discussed is jarring and ahistorical. I would humbly ask the other folks interested in this page to help edit to keep it on topic. --ContextSans (talk) 05:03, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

I feel like a lot of this should be removed. Much of the section under Early Years has nothing to do with the Castro.

This edit by @Katarina Dotter adds information about the the Finnish population at the time (which is arguably appropriate) but then a lot of fluff about the Russian colonial period which has no reference to the neighborhood.

The more egregious edit by @Heather McD is what adds an entire section dedicated to Russian colonialism and random inclusions of naval officers and battles.

Explaining the Finnish immigrant history of San Francisco is not the job of this page, but a mention of it is definitely useful as an explanation for the historical character of the neighborhood. I find it very difficult to argue that the 10 paragraphs on Russian exploration in general is applicable here. Both of the users mentioned seem to have a common bent throughout their contributions as well. Jopplk (talk) 15:44, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

I removed everything from the section that had nothing to do with the Castro district. The article could still do with some harmonization between the explicitly Finnish section and the following "Change of character" section. Ken Gallager (talk) 14:25, 23 September 2024 (UTC)