Talk:Carrier air wing

Name

Perhaps the name should be changed to Carrier Air Wing (United States) as this article does not appear to have a world view, and is more in line with a US CVW. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 19:44, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Proposed move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no consensus for move.
— V = I * R (talk) 00:11, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

---

Carrier air wing → Carrier air wing (United States) — See above comment for reason for change. Scope of article only talks about US Carrier Air Wings, where as historically the Royal Navy and the Imperial Japanese Navy also had embarked Air Wings when the operated full sized Carriers. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 19:55, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose - Other nations generally have other names for carrier compenents, such as group, etc. Also "(United States)" is a disambiguator, which is unnecessary unless there is a another article with the same title. All that needs to be done is to make it clear in the Lead that the article is about the USN. - BilCat (talk) 20:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

• Comment perhaps a general article should be written about this aerial force based on a single carrier. Aero element of an aircraft carrier ? 76.66.192.144 (talk) 04:04, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose — If the term really is specific to the US, then it doesn't need a disambiguator. If it is not limited to the US, then the article should be extended rather then renamed to pigeon hole it into a limited subset of the topic.
  — V = I * R (talk) 16:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose per Ω. If you feel that the article doesn't provide a worldwide view, then by all means add information about other countries. Bracketed disambiguation qualifiers like "(United States)" should only be used when there's more than one article that the reader can be expected to be looking for. Jafeluv (talk) 10:18, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Composition History

As I am not an expert, I hesitate to do any edits here, that being said I am wondering if the Composition section should be expanded to include a Composition History sub-section which gives a decade by decade description of a typical carrier air wing would have looked like during that time in history. For I understand at one point F-14s, F/A-18s, A-7s, A-6s, and SH-3s all shared deck space aboard a US Carrier, but a F-14 didn't share deckspace with an A-5 Vigilante. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 19:44, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

RE. Tomcat and Vigi; Yes they did. Example is Carrier Air Wing EIGHT having RVAH-6 aboard her when she hosted VF-41 and VF-84's first cruise with F-14's from USS Nimitz (also first deployment of Tomcats aboard Nimitz) between September 1977 to July 20 1978. 101.174.62.94 (talk) 14:23, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

While it would be useful, some eras of the USN's Carrier Air Groups/Air Wings were quite complicated, especially the 1940s and 50s, when so many different types performing the same roles were in service. One way might be to pick one or two air wings that have existed since the 30s (perhaps under different group/wing numbers), and give snapshots of their aircraft by decade. That might be a good start for the research, anyway. - BilCat (talk) 05:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the Article is perhaps short on references, compared to the content amount. I think a lot has been added since my last visit. In the section of the typical composition during Vietnam - it includes the airwing for a Essex Class Carrier as a ASW carrier, but no entry for a Essex operating as an attack carrier (say off Vietnam) Hum - did any Essex as an ASW carrier deploy near Vietnam? - Adding to my own here - A fun item might be a table of Air Wing to Carrier by year. - Does not address BillCat request - but user can then see how the Airwing frequently shift aircraft carrier.(airwing change carriers when their carrier goes into major overhaul or homeport shift. Wfoj3 (talk) 00:26, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

S-3 to H-60

Would be interesting to expand the transition from the 8 S-3+6 SH-60F to 20 MH-60S/R, Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.165.242.55 (talk) 15:02, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

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Escort Carrier Air Groups

This might be the wrong place for this, but is there any information on the structure of Escort Carrier air groups? For example I know on British escort carriers there was typically only one composite squadron flying multiple aircraft types, whereas on US escort carriers there were often separate squadrons (although they could fly the same aircraft types) - eg. USMC Corsair squadrons supporting amphibious operations. 80.111.44.102 (talk) 11:07, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Carrier Air Group abbreviation

The actual abbreviation for "Carrier Air Group" was "CVG", not "CAG". When Carrier Air Groups (CVG)s became Carrier Air Wings (CVW)s the Carrier Air Wing was not abbreviated "CAW", it was abbreviated "CVW" (replacing the "G" for "group" in the designation CVG with "W" for "wing" in the new designation CVW). The abbreviation "CAG" was and still is informally used as the title of the then CVG (now CVW) commander. See "List of United States Navy Aircraft Wings" article for a full list of "CVG"s which have existed throughout the history of U.S. Naval AviationNavalaviator84 (talk) 00:01, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Official creation of the Air groups (not the CAG position)

Hello user @Cobatfor: (and of course, to any contributor who thinks they could help on this matter) I am trying to improve the article Carrier Air Wing and especially the two paragraphs Origins and Carrier Air Group/Carrier Air Wing Commander. and I wonder if you could help. My main reference so far has been Carrier Air Group Commanders - The Men and their Machines by Robert L. Lawson (Schiffer Military History 2000, ISBN 0-7643-1035-6. Do you have this book ?

Using Lawson's book as a reference, I confirmed in the article that the CAG position was officially established in 1938 (although Lawson himself says there is a gap in dates depending on which official publication you consult as the position was probably created unoffically and then confirmed officially).

What is less clear to me is the effective date of creation for the Air groups themselves. Looking into the article History, I found out that you wrote (in September 2009...) : The first Carrier Air Groups (as they were then called) were activated in 1937 but I think expressions like Lexington Air Group or Saratoga Air Group were used long before that year.

In his book, Lawson acknowledges that it is difficult to track official information on the exact timing of what happened and when but he is positive for the following sequence

1. commissioning date of the ships (of course, although USS Langley remained for a rather long period in a kind of experimental status before being officially admitted in November 2024...)
2. Lexington and Saratoga admitted in the fleet in 1928, Ranger in 1934
3. creation of what would be called today fonctionnal/type Wings (not groups) starting in early 1927 : Observation Wing One, then in 1928 Fighting Wing, then Torpedo Wing, Light Bombing Wing, Scouting Wing etc..
4. creation of the CAG billet in 1938
5. existence of an interim period before the position was established, during which :

• the most senior of the embarked squadrons assumed some kind of leadership position
• a Carrier representative position, held as an additionnal duty by a ship company officer (air officer or Assistant Air officer depending on the ship) was created around 1936. Lawson cites former Admiral Jocko Clark - who, in his book Carrier Admiral (which I also have), mentions that he held the position onboard Lexington - but admits that very little official info exists on this job. The Carrier representative main responsability was coordination, especially when the squadrons were ashore.

What do you think ? Have you got more info on the topic ? Any input or help would be great ! Best regards Domenjod (talk) 17:25, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Hi, I think you'll find the answer in United States Naval Aviation 1910-2010 and here Evolution of Carrier Air Groups and Wings:

(p. 110): "1 APRIL (1933) • Fleet aviation was reorganized and divided between two principal commands: carriers and their aircraft were assigned to Battle Force; tender-based Aviation squadrons and FABs (Fleet Air Bases) Pearl Harbor, Territory of Hawaii, and Coco Solo, Panama Canal Zone, to Base Force. Each of the two commanders exercised type functions within his force. Commander Aircraft, Battle Force, served as type commander for all fleet aircraft, and the reorganization abolished Aircraft, Scouting Force."

(p. 124): "15 MARCH (1936) • The Bureau of Aeronautics assigned distinguishing colors to aircraft carriers for use as tail markings by all squadrons on board, thereby changing the existing practice of assigning colors to squadrons and eliminating confusion when squadrons transferred between carriers."

(p. 124): "1 JULY (1937) • The Navy revised its system of aircraft Squadron designation numbers. Carrier squadrons were numbered according to the hull numbers of their carriers; battleship and cruiser squadrons, the same numbers as their ship divisions; Marine squadrons, according to their Aircraft groups; and patrol squadrons, serially without regard to assignments. The change also abolished the use of Suffix letters to indicate organizational assignment, except for Naval District and Reserve squadrons, and interposed the M for Marine squadrons between the V prefix and mission letters."

(p. 128): "1 JULY (1938)• Chief of Naval Operations Adm. William D. Leahy authorized new command billets entitled Commander Carrier Air Group, and carrier squadrons organized into groups designated by the name of the carriers to which they were assigned."

(p. 153): "1 MARCH (1942) • Carrier Replacement Air Group 9 was established at NAS Norfolk, Va., Cmdr. William D. Anderson commanding. The action marked the first numbered air group in the Navy and the end of the practice of naming air groups for the carriers to which they were assigned."

This should answer your questions. Cheers Cobatfor (talk) 16:20, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. I'll dig into your info and may get back to you if need be but I think all I need is there. Once again, thanks a lot. Cheers, Domenjod (talk) 20:16, 31 January 2025 (UTC)