Talk:Captain Britain

Survival in space/without O2

Recent (AvsX) "Secret Avengers" stories show Captain Britain flying in space, not requiring a spacesuit or oxygen supply. Has this been explained anywhere? His magic-based powers would make this feasible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.134.221 (talk) 08:31, 10 June 2012

Scrambled eggs

The character was relaunched, in a redesigned costume, in the Marvel Superheroes anthology title, starting with issue #377 (September 1981). The relaunch was initially written by Dave Thorpe and illustrated by Alan Davis, who redesigned the costume at editor-in-chief Paul Neary's behest. Neary's chief concern was the original costume's lion chest emblem; though the emblem is a heraldic symbol, it is better known in the UK as a sign to denote the quality and freshness of eggs

Amusing stuff. Who made this up? Surely they were yolking?

I have been eating eggs in the UK for 50 years without consciously noticing the lion symbol - I may be unusually unobservant but I’d scarcely say it was better known than the heraldic symbol (such lions are part of the royal coat of arms, for instance); but then as https://www.egginfo.co.uk/british-lion-eggs indicates it was only introduced in 1998 it can scarcely have influenced this art decision in 1981.

2A00:23C4:4641:2801:7C3E:10B:ED33:8493 (talk) 20:31, 2 January 2022 (UTC) Eggo

The sentence in question was added by NukeofEarl back in 2017 with this edit. Any comments from them? InfiniteNexus (talk) 06:07, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Old topic I know, but seeing as I'll be adding it in when I'm happy with the rewriting but it had been used by the Egg Marketing Board between 1956 and 1971, stopping shortly before the start of OP's egg-eating career, and has been mentioned by Alan Davis in at least one cited interview. Given that it's not unequivocally, factually wrong as the logo had been used on eggs even if it was a few years before the strip and there's a source referring to it the eggnedote will be going back in unless there's some counter source where someone specifically calls Davis out for lying about it. Be a heck of a strange thing for the guy to make up, though. BoomboxTestarossa (talk) 14:41, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Potential film casting rumor

According to this article here from The Hollywood Reporter at the bottom Henry Cavill expressed interest in portraying Captain Britain. Is that something worth noting in the film section? 0Detail-Attention215 (talk) 22:57, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Lots of actors say these kinds of things and lots of rumors are about these kinds of things, so this isn't notable. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:30, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

I was just asking okay? 0Detail-Attention215 (talk) 22:49, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

And that's perfectly fine. You asked a question, so I answered. Not sure what you mean by that comment. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:55, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 18 July 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. There is a split proposal ongoing, which would be more beneficial than just moving. See: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Comics#Split_of_Captain_Britain_into_Draft:Captain_Britain_and_Draft:Brian_Braddock. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 01:13, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

---

Captain Britain → Brian Braddock – "Captain Britain" title has been used by a variety of characters (as well as the Captain Britain Corps) and is no longer used by Brian Braddock, who is the subject of this article. This article should be moved to "Brian Braddock," while "Captain Britain" should be either a disambiguation page, or an article about the publication history of the moniker itself (ie: Robin, Captain Marvel, Batgirl, etc.) Pibbs (talk) 19:07, 18 July 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 20:50, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose - I think this article is already focused on the publication history and use of the moniker by others. Perhaps it would be better to draft an article for Brian Braddock, and split the necessary character biography information out of this one in WP:SUMMARYSTYLE. -- Netoholic @ 06:12, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

  That's reasonable. Please see the following drafts: Draft:Captain Britain / Draft:Brian Braddock Pibbs (talk) 19:11, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

  User:Pibbs, User:Netoholic - I am reviewing the two drafts. Before I accept the drafts, which will implement a split, I would like to see more discussion. So I suggest that we take the split proposal to WikiProject Comics. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:47, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. If there is another article on the way then Captain Britain (Brian Braddock) still COMMONNAME first please. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:59, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

  No, we don't pseudo-disambiguate by tacking on an alternative name, ever.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  10:00, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

• Inclined to support even though it'll require some re-writing. This is clearly a case where we need a disambiguation page (or a "superhero name character history page"), because the "heroic mantle" in question is really multiple distinct characters. I think we're looking at a WP:SPLIT, really.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  10:00, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

  User:SMcCandlish, Split discussion is underway at WikiProject Comics per comments from Robert McClenon above Pibbs (talk) 16:23, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

That's not his title anymore

He's Captain Avalon now. He even admitted it himself. Betsy is Captain Britain, Kwannon is Psylocke. Gotta get with the times Wikipedia. Don't let the angry misogynistic chuds keep us in the past. Captain Britain is a woman and a mutant. 2607:FEA8:BFE0:D400:6D91:CCA0:AA40:22F7 (talk) 18:29, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

You'll be happy to hear that the old Captain Britain article has been split into two: one article for the moniker (with subsections for each of the three primary characters to use the title in publication) and corps, and one article specifically for the Brian Braddock character. If you'd like to help our cleanup efforts, the section on the corps requires some substantial work. Pibbs (talk) 15:34, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Captain Britain Corps - Cleanup Effort

The section on the Corps requires significant cleanup. The prior version was excessively long, and so I've streamlined it a bit, however statements lack proper citation. If anybody is particularly knowledgeable about older Captain Britain and Excalibur, any help updating this section would be greatly appreciated. Pibbs (talk) 20:57, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

I think CB is next on my hitlist. The Corps list is especially on the hitlist, it needs to be merged into one collapsible table at most given how little actual information there is on 95% of them beyond "is an alternate version of Captain Britain". Strongly feel also that all but a brief overview of Brian, Betsy and Kelsey or whatever her name was should be on their own pages, with this one dealing more with the overarching history and non-fictional information. I think I've pulled together enough sources to map something out, might take a few days though. BoomboxTestarossa (talk) 23:17, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Herb Trimpe as co-creator?

I believe Trimpe is on the record as saying he didn't create the character's costume, and that who did is officially unknown (but speculated to be JR Sr). While Herb did obviously draw the character's debut, does that really make him co-creator? BoomboxTestarossa (talk) 13:58, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Rewrite

Okay, I've had a crack at bringing some of the sections up to snuff. Comments as follows: -

1. You can see where my knowledge of the character ends somewhere around 2002. Not sure when I'm going to have chance to go on a deep dive to bring the rest of it up to scratch, so could do with someone who's an expert on 21st century Marvel to bring the rest up to standard. I literally have no idea of Betsy's still Captain Britain and it might be some time before I attempt to find out.
2. As said, if we have fictional pages for Brian, Betsy and that turd Mr. Rape-and-Tits curled out there's no need for any significant information here, better to work on those articles. That said I do think each could do with a 2-3 line abstract but it's beyond my compression skills not to amble off. I will be porting the information from those sections over to the individual pages should it not already be there.
3. The Captain Britain Corps table is right on the edge of being nuked, IMHO. It's like something off an abandoned fan wiki and a textbook reason for why you don't write Wikipedia articles based entirely on a recent storyline without making it stay relevant. If someone cares enough to want to pick through the myriad cameos and whatever and whip it into better shape it can maybe stay as a collapsed table that doesn't hog half the article with trivia that no-one cares about. But if no-one's bothered fixing it in, say, a month I'm going to slice it off into draftspace until someone does get bored enough to round it out.

BoomboxTestarossa (talk) 17:03, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Agreed on the Corps table. For the section on the Corps, I think the publication history and fictional biography are sufficient. A few examples of corp members (since very few have been particularly prominent) would probably suffice.

With regard to current publication, Betsy is Captain Britain, and that does appear to be a permanent change. Similarly to Captain Marvel, this is a case where a spin-off character (Betsy/Carol) turned out to be much more popular on their own than the original character (Brian/Mar-Vell), eventually taking the more prominent moniker (Captain Britain/Captain Marvel) while a newer character (Kwannon/Kamala) takes on the other moniker (Psylocke/Ms. Marvel) in other popular new series.

The publication history may be excessively detailed. A lot of this appears redundant to information more relevant (and already included) on the Brian Braddock page. This section could be edited down. I could probably assist with abstracts for Brian and Betsy, though I'm not familiar enough with Austen's work to do the same for Kirkland. Pibbs (talk) 18:56, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

It probably is a bit overdetailed, yes; Excalibur (comic book) is something on my list to do and a lot of that section can be ported over there, same with Hulk Comic. I'd be seriously tempted to do a Captain Britain (comic) page to cover the weekly and monthly, with the Jaspers' Warp page picking up in-between, but my worry would be we'd get a lot of pushback over the new page...

If Betsy is now THE Captain Britain in the same way that Carol is THE Marvel Captain Marvel then /this/ page is probably overbiased to Brian as Betsy's been a peripheral character for the first 30+ years of the title. Same time I think it could take a movie to sort out which, really; in terms of prominence Brian's been Captain Britain in issues of Excalibur that have shifted 350k copies and is the guy getting mentioned more by mainstream news articles whenever a film is mentioned. Not sure what X-Men's circulation is like these days but it isn't that much and for Wikipedia that's something to consider, though at the moment we're talking niche versus niche; Carol's not really been cemented as Captain Marvel by anything that's happened in the comics as much as she has been by being in money-spinning films. BoomboxTestarossa (talk) 19:56, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

"Not sure what X-Men's circulation is like these days" Why would that matter? Betsy has not been part of the team's active roster since the 2019 relaunch, and has been more prominent in spin-off titles throughout the 2010s and the 2020s. The circulation of titles which do not depict Betsy has little impact of the character. Dimadick (talk) 21:13, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

With regard to Brian as "the guy getting mentioned more by mainstream news articles whenever a film is mentioned" this largely consists of clickbait articles reposting tweets by DC movie fans fancasting their Superman into the MCU (and Cavill occasionally shrugging his shoulders and saying "sure that'd be cool"), I don't think that really has any bearing on a wikipedia article. No disrespect to Cavill, he seems like a nice guy, I just don't see how that's relevant here. I can't really speak to sales numbers, since I think it would be difficult to meaningfully compare the 1970s/2020s markets. In any case, Brian has not been a prominent character for decades, while Betsy has, and considering how Marvel managed to have their cake and eat it to by having Kwannon as Psylocke (maintaining the branding by keeping the iconic Jim Lee design while avoiding the fraught racial politics of the body swap, not to mention how well-received Hellions was) while using Betsy to revitalize the Captain Britain branding, I honestly have a hard time imagining they'd have any incentive to backtrack. Pibbs (talk) 14:15, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

A general observation.:

• • Mar-Vell was killed back in 1982. Other than a few flashback mini-series, temporary resurrections, and alternate versions, Marvel has barely used him in the last 40 years. Carol Danvers was a major supporting character for the X-Men during their heyday in the 1980s, a prominent member of various Avengers rosters in the late 1990s and the 2000s, and she has headlined several solo series since then. There are probably more comics readers familiar with her, than with Mar-vell. The various adaptations in film, television, etc. have further boosted her prominence.
  • Brian Braddock received most of his character development in solo stories published between 1976 and 1986. Since then, most of his appearances depict him as a member of team books, and he is often overshadowed by more popular characters. Betsy Braddock served as one of the most prominent members of the X-Men from the late 1980s to the mid-2000s. She received more character development during the 2010s, as the de facto protagonist in a few incarnations of X-Force. All before she was revamped as the new Captain Britain and became the lead character in a new incarnation of Excalibur. She has stayed in the spotlight for far longer than Brian, and would probably be more familiar to comics readers who started reading after 1985.
  • Kwannon is not an entirely new character. She was introduced in 1993, but got killed prematurely. She had a rather ambiguous resurrection storyline in 2009, and was fully restored a decade later. The recent writers have had a chance to flesh out an underused character, and the response from readers so far is positive. Whether Kwannon has enough staying power to remain prominent, is currently uncertain. Dimadick (talk) 20:50, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

    Sorry, it looks like I'm not explaining myself very clearly, I do tend to amble off-point. If Betsy *is* Captain Britain now that's marvellous; if the article is unbalanced the answer is to beef up the Betsy sections with sourced information that I would assume is out there to bring it into better balance. I might do it one day but that day is a long way off as I binned Marvel off around 2005 and have a lot of catching up to do while also reading/re-reading loads of other comics. BoomboxTestarossa (talk) 21:05, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

  Regarding the Corps, the other question is what to do about Linda and maaaybe Crusader X or any other members who are more than joke cameos. My feeling is that Captain UK at least is a different character and warrants an entry on List of Marvel Comics characters: C (in lieu of the sources to get a standalone article past notability) on the grounds she isn't called Captain Britain, isn't an analogue of Brian Braddock any more than Miles Morales is Peter Parker, and appeared in more than about 2 frames. BoomboxTestarossa (talk) 07:44, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

  Actually, looking at it there's more than enough sources (User:BoomboxTestarossa/Captain Britain (comic)) to justify a page for Captain Britain-the-comic-slash-comic-strip page that would house the detail from here; if you could bear with me for a few days to do the set-up we can hack a lot of the publication history down on this page. BoomboxTestarossa (talk) 06:27, 10 May 2023 (UTC)