Talk:CMOC Group Limited
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Editing suggestion (Introduction and Leadership sections)
editHello,
I am proposing the text below as a compromise between the page before and after @Amigao’s series of edits between 10 and 15 October. First of all, I would like to thank Amigo for several notable improvements to the page, including adding contextual elements and citing a recent Wall Street Journal article on CMOC’s cobalt operations.
However, I would respectfully characterise certain of Amigao’s edits as excessive and imbalanced, which appear to run counter to the community’s rules on objectivity. In the interest of starting a dialogue and arriving at a mutually-acceptable solution for community members, I would kindly request that @Forbes72, who has made numerous edits to the page in the past and has demonstrated objectivity and good faith, mediate discussions.
In the first line of the introduction section, Amigao has described CMOC as “a Chinese partly state-owned mining company” and in the infobox as a “partly state-owned,” without providing a credible media source that describes the company as such. Opening the article with this line, as opposed to more general information as is standard of a business article, gives the reader the false impression that CMOC’s ownership is, at best, roughly split between private and public shareholders, which is very far from the reality.
As a compromise and for the sake of balance and accuracy, I propose removing the reference to CMOC’s minority state ownership from the introduction and infobox and instead listing the five largest state-owned shareholders with their respective percentages in both the infobox and the “Leadership” Section, the latter of which provides a more fitting location to add these details. Doing so would add important context and balance to the Leadership section (which currently only refers to private shareholders) and show these state-owned shareholders’ less significant presence in the company (less than 3%) relative to the company’s private ownership.
CMA CGM’s Wikipedia page provides a good example of a private company with minority state ownership (3% holding for French public investment bank Bpifrance - similar to CMOC) that does not mention this fact or put the company’s private ownership into question in the introduction section or info box, but does reference this in the middle of the page. We propose to adopt the same approach, which paints a more accurate, balanced picture of the company’s ownership structure while remaining transparent.
Finally, Amigao has also removed basic, important and easily-verifiable facts about the company; namely, concerning its global positions in its main metal markets. I thank Amigao for pointing out certain insufficiently-evidenced text; I have only proposed reinserting text backed by credible and respected third-party sources. Amigao appears to consider such information to be promotional; however, the text I have proposed avoids excessive or promotional language, remaining strictly objective on market rankings, which constitutes critical information for readers.
___________________________
Introduction/infobox current text:
CMOC or CMOC Group Limited (simplified Chinese: 洛阳钼业; traditional Chinese: 洛陽鉬業; pinyin: Luòyáng mù yè), previously known as China Molybdenum Company Limited, is a Chinese partly state-owned mining company. It is listed on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange and Shanghai Stock Exchange.
The company controls approximately one third of global cobalt supply. The company's headquarters are located in Luanchuan County, close to the city of Luoyang City in Henan. As of 2022, they are ranked 74th in the Fortune China Top 500.
| Company type | Public; partly state-owned |
|---|---|
| Traded as | |
| Industry | Metal and Phosphate mining |
| Founded | 1969 |
| Headquarters | Luanchuan, Luoyang, Henan
, People's Republic of China |
| Area served | Worldwide |
| Key people | Yuan Honglin (Chairman)
Sun Ruiwen (CEO) |
| Products | Copper, Molybdenum, Tungsten, Cobalt, Niobium and Phosphate related products |
| Revenue | CN¥186.3 billion (2023) |
| Operating income | CN¥15.5 billion (2023) |
| Net income | CN¥8.2 billion (2023) |
| Total assets | 172,975,000,000 renminbi (2023) |
| Owner | Cathay Fortune (30.19%)
CATL (24.68%) |
| Subsidiaries | IXM |
| Website | en.cmoc.com |
Introduction/infobox suggested text (with proposed sources highlighted in parentheses and source list below):
CMOC or CMOC Group Limited (simplified Chinese: 洛阳钼业; traditional Chinese: 洛陽鉬業; pinyin: Luòyáng mù yè), previously known as China Molybdenum Company Limited, is the largest molybdenum producer in Mainland China and one of the top five molybdenum producers globally (A,B). A Chinese public company (C), CMOC is listed on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange and Shanghai Stock Exchange.
Additionally, it is the world’s largest producer of tungsten (D) and second-largest producer of Niobium (E). The company controls approximately one-third of global cobalt supply (F), and became the world’s leading cobalt producer in 2023 (G). CMOC’s headquarters are located in Luanchuan County, close to the city of Luoyang City in Henan. As of 2022, they are ranked 74th in the Fortune China Top 500.
Infobox (only modifications included)
Company type Public
Owner Cathay Fortune (24.69%)
CATL (24.68%)
HKSCC Nominees Limited (16.66%)
Hong Kong Securities Clearing Company Limited (3.67%)
China CITIC Financial Asset Management (1.19%)
China State-owned Entreprise Structure Adjustment Fund (0.81%)
Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (0.38%)
Taiping Life Insurance (0.28%)
China Construction Bank (0.26%) (H)
Sources:
A)https://www.mining.com/bolivia-uyuni-plant-to-yield-first-lithium-by-2025-end/
B)https://www.business-humanrights.org/fr/entreprises/china-molybdenum/#associated_alegations
C)https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/60106-42#overview
D)https://www.africanlawbusiness.com/news/21447-cmoc-closes-drc-hydropower-deal
E)https://www.securities.io/investing-in-tungsten-the-secret-high-tech-metal/
F)https://www.wsj.com/business/this-chinese-miner-dominates-global-cobalt-supply-the-u-s-is-crying-foul-61b4274b (Amigao’s source)
H) https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2024/0823/2024082300815.pdf
______________________
Leadership current text:
The current chairman of CMOC is Yuan Honglin (袁宏林), having been elected in June 2020. He replaced Li Chaochun (李朝春), who held the position from 2014 to 2020. The two largest shareholders of the company are the Cathay Fortune Group and Chinese battery manufacturer CATL.
Leadership proposed text:
The current chairman of CMOC is Yuan Honglin (袁宏林), having been elected in June 2020. He replaced Li Chaochun (李朝春), who held the position from 2014 to 2020. CMOC’s three largest shareholders are the Cathay Fortune Group, Chinese battery manufacturer CATL, and HKSCC Nominees Limited, which own a combined 66.03% stake in the company. (A)
The company’s five largest state-owned shareholders – China CITIC Financial Asset Management, China State-owned Entreprise Structure Adjustment Fund, Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, Taiping Life Insurance, and China Construction Bank – own a combined minority stake of 2.92%. (A)
Sources:
A) https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2024/0823/2024082300815.pdf SandroP3l (talk) 11:10, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
- Sandro, thanks for raising the issues in a constructive way. I agree that mentioning state ownership in the very first few words without mentioning public ownership first places more emphasis on state ownership than is reflected in the sources. At the same time, this is a company founded in China during the Cultural Revolution, so there's clearly significant state involvement. Nikkei mentions "It was a traditional state-owned enterprise controlled until it started receiving private-sector capital in 2004" [comment 1] That state ownership has been diluted by the stock offerings discussed in the text of the article, but it is probably fair to mention state ownership in the intro somewhere without making it the focal point. The infobox field "company type" is intended to specify the specific legal incorporation type (the applicable equivalent of SARL, GmbH, or PLC), not to make a judgement call about the extent to which the company is "publicly controlled" or "privately controlled" in an abstract sense.
- I would caution against listing so many specific rankings in the lead. These can quickly go out of date as production levels of various companies fluctuate, and I have to agree with Amigao that these end up sounding like how the company would describe its importance in a press release or on its website. "Leading" is on Wikipedia's list of words to watch. A general description of it being one of the world's largest producers of minerals X, Y, and Z and leaving the details for the body of the article keeps the article aimed at a general audience instead of a prospective investor.
- ^ Shin Watanabe (2022-01-07). "Chinese cobalt producer to double Congo output with eye on top spot". Nikkei Asia. Retrieved 2024-11-09.
- 〈 Forbes72 | Talk 〉 21:36, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hello Forbes72,
- Thank you very much for your thoughtful, productive feedback and willingness to engage in a genuine dialogue to improve the page.
- In regards to your comment on rankings and inadvertently promotional language, my new compromise text (see below) has removed all mentions of specific rankings – which you rightly point out are subject to market fluctuations – and removed the word “leading.” However, I have left in the reference to “approximately one-third of global cobalt supply,” which was contributed by Amigao, in the spirit of compromise.
- Concerning the question of state ownership, thank you for the clarification on the purpose of the “company type” field in the infobox – based on your explanation and the ‘source G’ that I have provided, can we agree that reverting the field to “Public,” as it has always been until Amigao’s edit in October, would be the most appropriate course of action?
- In terms of this issue’s treatment in the body of the introduction section, I’m glad we agree that CMOC’s minority state ownership does not warrant excessive focus. In order to reach a mutually-acceptable solution, I have restructured the two introductory paragraphs for thematic consistency (first paragraph on key metals markets, second paragraph on more general company information, as opposed to the mix seen in the current version), and added a reference to minority government shareholders as a logical addition to the sentence on CMOC’s publicly-listed status to conclude the section.
- ___________________________________________
- New text proposal:
- CMOC or CMOC Group Limited (simplified Chinese: 洛阳钼业; traditional Chinese: 洛陽鉬業; pinyin: Luòyáng mù yè), previously known as China Molybdenum Company Limited, is one of the world’s largest producers of molybdenum (A,B) tungsten (C), Niobium (D) and cobalt (E). The company accounts for approximately one-third of global cobalt supply (F).
- CMOC’s headquarters are located in Luanchuan County, close to the city of Luoyang City in Henan. As of 2022, they are ranked 74th in the Fortune China Top 500. A Chinese public company (G), CMOC is listed on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange and Shanghai Stock Exchange, with state-owned entities holding a minority stake (H).
- Infobox
- Company type Public
- Owner Cathay Fortune (24.69%)
- CATL (24.68%)
- HKSCC Nominees Limited (16.66%)
- Hong Kong Securities Clearing Company Limited (3.67%)
- China CITIC Financial Asset Management (1.19%)
- China State-owned Entreprise Structure Adjustment Fund (0.81%)
- Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (0.38%)
- Taiping Life Insurance (0.28%)
- China Construction Bank (0.26%) (H)
- Sources:
- A)https://www.mining.com/bolivia-uyuni-plant-to-yield-first-lithium-by-2025-end/
- B)https://www.business-humanrights.org/fr/entreprises/china-molybdenum/#associated_alegations
- C)https://www.africanlawbusiness.com/news/21447-cmoc-closes-drc-hydropower-deal
- D)https://www.securities.io/investing-in-tungsten-the-secret-high-tech-metal/
- E)https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-04/chinese-miner-takes-glencore-s-cobalt-crown-as-output-jumps-170
- F)https://www.wsj.com/business/this-chinese-miner-dominates-global-cobalt-supply-the-u-s-is-crying-foul-61b4274b
- G)https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/60106-42#overview
- H) https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2024/0823/2024082300815.pdf
- _____________________
- Leadership section (unchanged from my initial proposal, but included for reference)
- The current chairman of CMOC is Yuan Honglin (袁宏林), having been elected in June 2020. He replaced Li Chaochun (李朝春), who held the position from 2014 to 2020. CMOC’s three largest shareholders are the Cathay Fortune Group, Chinese battery manufacturer CATL, and HKSCC Nominees Limited, which own a combined 66.03% stake in the company. (A)
- The company’s five largest state-owned shareholders – China CITIC Financial Asset Management, China State-owned Entreprise Structure Adjustment Fund, Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, Taiping Life Insurance, and China Construction Bank – own a combined minority stake of 2.92%. (A)
- Sources:
- A) https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2024/0823/2024082300815.pdf SandroP3l (talk) 09:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)