Talk:Bruno Madrigal

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by theleekycauldron, because We Don't Talk About Bruno!

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• Article history

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• ... that Encanto character Bruno Madrigal was originally named Oscar? Source: NY Times
  • ALT1: ... that Encanto character Bruno Madrigal was originally named Oscar, but his name was changed due to the number of real-life Oscar Madrigals in Colombia? Source: same
  • ALT2: ... that the name of Encanto character Bruno Madrigal was selected from a list of ideas including Arlo, Andre, Anko, Marco, and Emo? Source: Buzzfeed, this tweet by the director
  • Comment: My first DYK nomination!

Created by Aerin17 (talk). Self-nominated at 00:44, 8 February 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Article is new enough, long enough, well-sourced, neutral and plagiarism-free. The hook is cited and interesting (my personal preference is ALT1). I'd prefer to not link Encanto in the hooks to not draw attention away from the bolded article, but that's just a preference. QPQ not needed. Great work! Pamzeis (talk) 06:13, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Pamzeis! I don't have a strong preference about whether or not to link Encanto, so I'll defer to anyone else's preference. Aerin17 (t • c) 15:24, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

ALT1 to T:DYK/P6

Notes

Discussion at Talk:Mirabel Madrigal § Maternal/sororal, etc.

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Mirabel Madrigal § Maternal/sororal, etc.. Pamzeis (talk) 04:36, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Bruno Madrigal/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Fieryninja (talk · contribs)

Reviewer: Spinixster (talk · contribs) 03:00, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Let's talk about Bruno. Or, in other words, I'll be reviewing this article. Comments will be coming soon (hopefully), in the meantime, I'll go over the basics:

• Copyvio: 45.4%, but much of it is common phrases and quotes.
• General prose issues: There are some WP:CINS issues, which should be fixed.
• Extra coverage? I was able to find some sources in Google Scholar here which might be useful to the article. (Don't use the "Tumgik" sources, though, they're basically Tumblr mirrors.)

Okay, here's the full review.

• Lead and infobox:
  • Appearance dates in the infobox should be by year for film characters since films often have multiple releases (festival, international, etc.)
    • Done
  • Following the release of the film, Bruno achieved viral popularity. Where did Bruno achieve viral popularity?
    • Added
  • Per WP:SURNAME, the subject should be referred to by their surnames. (Apply this to the whole article, too.) Nevermind, I think using the first name here is okay.
  • The date after "We Don't Talk About Bruno" is unnecessary.
    • Removed
• Development
  • (Recommendation, not needed for GA) I'd recommend adding the year when Zootopia was released for more context, ex. After finishing their work on Zootopia (2016),...
    • Added
  • The first paragraph does not seem to mention how Lin-Manuel Miranda got involved with the project. Did the directors contact him after wanting to do a musical film? More context would be needed here.
    • Added
  • Charise Castro Smith, Bush and Howard co-directed the film. This sentence feels out of place in a paragraph talking about the writing of the film. Perhaps some context on how the directors took part in the writing of the film could help?
    • I've added context about how Castro Smith got involved in the writing process. Fieryninja (talk) 11:42, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
  • According to Bush the team conducted research by consulting therapists and psychologists:... Add comma after Bush.
    • Added
  • Alejandra Espinosa was the local guide for Disney on a four-day tour of Barichara, after which she was contracted as cultural consultant. Add "a" before "cultural consultant".
    • Added
  • A team of ten Disney staff including Latin American employees worked on the project. Add commas after "staff" and "employees". Also, is there an exact number on how many Latin American employees were part of the 10 people or how much of the group consisted of Latin Americans? I think it would be useful to add here.
    • I don't know how many Latin American employees there were but I've added some extra information about the Disney employee consultancy group. Fieryninja (talk) 11:41, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
  • His original name was Oscar, but the creative team explored other options due to the number of real-life Oscar Madrigals in Colombia. It is unclear in this sentence that the original name was not used was due to the sheer amount of people named Oscar Madrigal (number is a vague word). Maybe add "large" before number? Also, there's some WP:CLOP issues here, this sentence is very similar to the one used in the cited article.
    • Actually the source does not say it was a large number, so I have just rephrased the sentence. Fieryninja (talk) 22:01, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

    It kind of implies it. After all, if there's a large number of people named Oscar Madrigal in Colombia, the film would be more prone to lawsuits from those people. Spinixster (trout me!) 01:40, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

    • I'm not sure. This seems like WP:OR to me. Fieryninja (talk) 06:37, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
  • A team of designers worked on Bruno's character design including visual development artist Meg Park who created his costume. Add comma after "design" and "Meg Park" per WP:CINS.
    • Added
  • Costume design lead, Neysa Bove, said that... Remove the comma after "Costume design lead" since this is a WP:FALSETITLE. Also remove comma after "Neysa Bove" per WP:CINS.
    • Done
  • Wikilink poncho.
    • Done
  • I realized this midway through this section, but the article reuses pronouns like "he" a lot, which may cause repetition. Consider using last names/surnames when applicable.
    • Done
• Appearances
  • Bruno features in official Encanto merchandise, including clothing, toy sets and plush dolls. Should be "is featured" instead of "features".
    • Done
  • Bruno and the members of the family Madrigal appeared in a projection show... Isn't it "the Madrigal family"?
    • Done
• Reception
  • CNN highlighted that therapists have theorized that Bruno may be neurodivergent or have a mental illness due to being different and exhibiting unusual mannerisms. I suggest adding examples of him being different and his unusual mannerisms here.
    • Added
  • He commented that, unlike the other Madrigal family members whose powers are valued,... Remove comma after "that".
    • Done
  • He noted that a close analysis of the song "We Don't Talk About Bruno" reveals that rather than having done anything wrong, Bruno is simply too blunt:... The original source does not seem to say that Ian Kumamoto thinks that Bruno is blunt but rather others think so. The sentence should be edited to reflect that.
    • Done
  • Roxy Simons writing for Newsweek commented that... Add comma after Simons and Newsweek.
    • Added
  • It should be clarified that Pepa has powers to control the weather.
    • Added
  • particularly in the verse in which his sister Pepa complains that he ruined her wedding day by approaching her with a "mischievous grin" and causing a hurricane,... This seems like a WP:SYNTH problem; the original source only says that Pepa caused rain.
    • Done
  • Is there more information on what made Bruno trending on social media and what users were posting?
    • There's a fair amount on the song going viral, but not sure if that is relevant? Fieryninja (talk) 16:29, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

    I think it would be if it relates to the character. Spinixster (trout me!) 08:23, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

    • I've added a sentence about song, there's no more than that really. Fieryninja (talk) 07:46, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
• Sources
  • Per WP:CITEVAR, the citation format should be consistent. Currently, some references are missing authors, dates, etc.
    • Done, except for Uni of Cambridge, which has no date
  • Cinemablend is listed as unreliable at WP:VG/S, but I'd say its usage in the article is okay. I'd encourage replacing those sources with better sources if there's any.
  • Recommend using a template like Template:Use mdy dates to make the dates in the references consistent.
    • Done
  • References 1 and 3 are duplicates of each other.
    • Merged
  • Reference 2 (BuzzFeed) is only marginally reliable per WP:RSP. The part seems to be sourced from Lin-Manuel Miranda's interview on The Kelly Clarkson Show. Unfortunately, the video can only be found via Facebook, I assume due to copyright issues leading to the official clip on YouTube being taken down. The NBC official link does not help either because the videos expire (I think), but it has been archived. Perhaps that link can be used instead of BuzzFeed?
    • Replaced with new ref
  • Reference 19 is a primary source, though I think this source can be easily replaced because the ages of the triplets are not mentioned in the article nor do I think it is necessary to add them.
    • Replaced with new ref, ages removed
• Some overall issues
  • After checking a few sources, I have found that there are many close paraphrasing issues. Here are some examples:
    • Original: They facilitated conversations with local artisans, architects, botanists and chefs to educate the team on Columbian history and culture and expose them to everyday life. In addition to the consultants, a group of Latin American Disney employees were consulted, who watched the film and provided feedback. Castro Smith said that this was invaluable to the film's development. In cited article: This meant facilitating conversations with architects, who could speak to traditional materials used in Colombian architecture; [...] Besides the official consultants, the filmmakers also turned to the studio’s Latinx employees affiliated with the Familia group for feedback. [...] “This group watched the film and gave us really honest feedback after every time we screened it. I think their feedback was invaluable in making this movie.”
    • Original: His original name was Oscar, but the creative team explored other options due to the number of real-life Oscar Madrigals in Colombia. In cited article: He was also originally named Oscar, but Bush said a legal snag over the existence of a number of real-life Oscar Madrigals in Colombia, led them to explore other name options.
    • Original: Mic writer Ian Kumamato thought that Bruno's subplot reflects the way that households willingly ignore mental illness. He commented that, unlike the other Madrigal family members whose powers are valued, Bruno's power of clairvoyance disturbs the family and results in him being ignored and ostracised. He noted that a close analysis of the song "We Don't Talk About Bruno" reveals that rather than having done anything wrong, Bruno is simply too blunt: "They don’t get him, and seem to not want their family to be 'flawed' by his presence. He's misunderstood, like so many others who deal with any kind of mental illness." In cited article: To me, the song parodies the ways in which Latinx households like my own sometimes have willingly ignored mental illness in favor of upholding more pleasant facades. [...] Bruno’s superpower, which appears to be a keen intuition and clairvoyance, isn’t really recognized as helpful to anyone so he just ends up being ignored. [...] When the villagers complain about Bruno, they’re really just complaining about how blunt he is, e.g.: how he told a man he’s going to grow a gut and another that he’ll lose all his hair, probably not realizing that people don’t like to hear such prickly truths. Bruno isn’t cursed; people just don’t like him.
    • Original: Simons further noted that the verse sung by Dolores reveals that Bruno was isolated and alienated because his visions left the family members "grappling with prophecies they couldn't understand". In cited article: She also shares how Bruno felt isolated and alienated from his family because they were unable to see his visions as anything other than a burden ("Always left Abuela and the family fumbling; Grappling with prophecies they couldn't understand").
  • Of course, this is not all, and I trust that you can find and fix these issues yourself.
    • Edited out in above cases Fieryninja (talk) 22:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Spinixster I've worked through your comments as follows.

• The copyvio score was low until I added the quote by Miranda, so copyvio is minimal.
• I've worked through and tried to eliminate any comma issues.
• I've looked through the Google scholar sources but some I cannot access and others have not proven useful.
  • I accessed one of them, "Let’s Talk about Bruno: Encanto as a Medium to Teach Psychodynamic Theory" via The Wikipedia Library, which has access to Taylor & Francis, and it has some interesting, albeit short, analysis of the character. Another one, "“Where All the People are Fantastical and Magical”—and Hurting: Intergenerational Trauma and Social-Emotional Learning in Encanto" from SpringerLink (also accessible via TWL) also has analysis of the character. Even if the articles repeat what has already been said, it'd be useful to add them in and say that it's a common consensus, ex. "Many writers think that..."
    • I haven't used the Wikipedia Library before and it looks like I need to give an email address to log in. Just wondering if these are necessary for this review? Fieryninja (talk) 11:38, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
      • The Good article criteria does require articles to be "broad in its coverage", so the more coverage the better. The Wikipedia Library only requires a Wikipedia account with 500+ edits in over 6 months with no ongoing blocks to access, so I am not sure why it asked for your email address. Spinixster (trout me!) 07:01, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
        • Wikipedia editors can only access it if they have an email address on file, which I don't. Fieryninja (talk) 06:40, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

          I guess you can request the files via WP:RX. Spinixster (trout me!) 02:06, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

          • I've managed to register for the library, access the above scholarly sources, and added the relevant commentary about Bruno. Fieryninja (talk) 20:54, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

• I have changed the appearance date in the infobox to the year.
• I have added social media to the viral popularity sentence as mentioned in the source.
• I have checked for full names per WP:SURNAME but haven't found any. Let me know if I have missed any.
• Added the Zootopia year.
• I had a look at the main Encanto page but that does not say how Miranda got involved in the project. I will keep looking.
  • Ok I have managed to find more context on this and added it. Fieryninja (talk) 18:43, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
• I have added missing dates, authors to citations. The missing ones are not stated. Fieryninja (talk) 18:35, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Reference 25, 28, 40, 42, and 47 are missing dates. (although I cannot find the date for 47, so this will be hard)
    • I can't locate the date for ref 42. Fieryninja (talk) 11:32, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
      • The site says that it was published on November 15, 2021. Spinixster (trout me!) 07:01, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Overall, very nice work! There's just some issues, so I'll put this on hold. If you have any questions, please ask. Spinixster (trout me!) 14:35, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Spinixster I think I have resolved the issues. Do you want to have another check through and let me know if there is anything outstanding? Fieryninja (talk) 20:57, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

  I think there are no other issues in the article (at least none that violate the Good article criteria) so I will be passing now. Spinixster (trout me!) 12:08, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.