Talk:Brad Boyd

Clear errors of fact corrected about Fitzroy in this article

It's a matter of public record that the Fitzroy Football Club still plays in its own right, albeit not in the AFL - now in the VAFA - and is not a part of the Brisbane Lions. Hence any claim that Fitzroy no longer competes as a club and somehow merged with Brisbane is not true and shouldn't be posted as such in Wikipedia articles like this one.

What is true is that Brisbane took over the AFL operations. As detailed by Fitzroy on the club's website (http://www.fitzroyfc.com.au), and within Wikipedia itself for a long time now in the entry about the Fitzroy Football Club (http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Fitzroy_Football_Club). And both the club website and that Wikipedia entry clearly show that Fitzroy still exist and compete as a club on the field.

Since Fitzroy obviously still exist as a club, both on and off the field, it is simply false to claim that 1996 was the club's last season, and false, for instance, to say that Boyd was the club's last captain. So I've corrected these points.

121.210.232.42 (talk) 13:20, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

The Fitzroy Football Club article says there was a "merger of its AFL playing operations". You don't seem to object to that wording or else you'd have changed it. There's nothing factually incorrect in saying they "merged". The exact details of the merge are irrelevant on an article about a player. In fact, 420 articles on the official AFL website refer to it as a merger.[1]. Cheers. Jevansen (talk) 20:57, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Exactly."This merger of the club operations of Fitzroy and the Brisbane Bears at the AFL level, formed the Brisbane Lions" sums it up.. calling it a merger when minutiae isn't required is reasonable. Seems more reasonable than denying any Fitzroy involvement in the Lions' formation. 58.96.125.138 (talk) 00:19, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

As to your latest comment there Jevansen, the fact the Bears took over/absorbed/merged Fitzroy's AFL operations in 1996, as the result of an agreement signed between Fitzroy and the Bears during that year, doesn't somehow mean the clubs merged, does it.

Fitzroy were involved as far as the administrator at the time, before we came out of administration, allowing Brisbane to take control of our AFL operations by way of that agreement. But Fitzroy never ceased club operations independently. Hence no merger between the clubs.

121.210.232.42 (talk) 04:04, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Since the Fitzroy Football Club still exists, and is not in any way part of the Brisbane Lions Football Club, clearly it is factually incorrect to say they "merged". The continued existence and operation of Fitzroy FC proves that beyond any possibility of doubt.

If Fitzroy had merged with Brisbane to form one club, we wouldn't still exist as an independent club, would we?

I honestly don't see how you're missing this fundamental point.

Whether or not X number of pages on Google claim such a merger somehow took place is entirely irrelevant. It wouldn't matter in the slightest even if you had thousands of such pages claiming Fitzroy ceased to exist outside of the Brisbane Lions. The club clearly does continue to operate, and has never been a part of Brisbane.

121.210.232.42 (talk) 17:28, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

If the AFL, Brisbane Lions and almost single source that talks about the formation of the Lions refer to it as a merger, then so should we. No one is denying that Fitzroy still exist as a club, but almost every source says simply that there was a merger (not specifying AFL Operations) which demonstrates that it is accepted terminology. I'm going to again revert back to the original version of this page, before this dispute, if you want to take this further I'd suggest the best way forward would be to request community input at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian rules football. Or if you want a third opinion from someone not involved in AFL editing, you can go to Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests/Third Opinion. Reverting won't get you anywhere. Also, in case there is any confusion, I'd just like to clarify that IP 58 isn't me. Cheers. Jevansen (talk) 07:16, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

As far as other opinions go, I'm contemplating informing our club administration about it. Or perhaps you should ask the club admin yourself. They're easily contactable.

This isn't a matter of semantics or jargon, as I'm sure they'll tell you also. If the Fitzroy Football Club still continues to exist and operate as an independent organisation as the club always has since its formation in 1883, and are not in any way owned by/incorporated within the Brisbane Lions Football Club, there is no merger. It's as simple as that.

I'd suggest you get yourself a copy of the 1996 agreement and see what it says. Fitzroy were not absorbed into Brisbane. Which is manifestly obvious, of course. Brisbane took our AFL operations and some of our players, and changed their name.

For the record, the only actual merger Fitzroy FC have been involved in, is that which saw us incorporate the Fitzroy Reds at the end of 2008. That incorporation clearly highlighted as such on the front page of the Fitzroy FC website: http://www.fitzroyfc.com.au

And so, once again, it's equally obvious that Brad Boyd is not our last captain. Our last, or current, captain, is Rory Angiolella. He's still our captain in 2013. -> http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Fitzroy_Football_Club

"Brad Boyd was the last captain" If you say, "That's only in the AFL", then you are getting a handle on it.

Are you seriously asserting that because various pages on the Web used the word 'merger' about what happened in 1996, that somehow alters our status as an independent club at Brunswick St Oval, and changes who our captain is?

Such argument about articles on the Brisbane website or articles on Google otherwise, is completely irrelevant. The physical and legal reality is clear.

This is about protecting our identity, and as a Fitzroy member, I know I speak for all of us when I say our identity is paramount. It's painful enough to remember how we lost our place in the AFL, after more than a decade of struggle against continued and deliberate whiteanting by Oakley, Samuel, Collins and co - as spelt out, for instance, in the book written by Dyson Hore-Lacy, our President at the time.

Aside from our needing to fight over and over again to ensure the terms of that 1996 agreement have been met by Brisbane - they've successfully managed to weaken their obligations to us in a number of ways over this time. And we've obviously also had to deal continuously with misstatement and misrepresentation about our status ever since 1996.

I'd really appreciate it if you'd just let the facts stand. Or otherwise, if you still dispute this, as I said, contact the club and ask them directly.

121.210.232.42 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:06, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I've made it clear what you need to do. Jevansen (talk) 22:32, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

The only proper resolution of this is by acknowledgement of the continued legal and physical existence of Fitzroy FC within any articles that relate to the club. In other words, removal of any comments claiming Fitzroy ceased to exist after 1996, removal of comments claiming that we no longer have a captain, etc.

This is not a matter of surveying other editors to gauge their opinion, this is about clear legal fact, and I'm sorry Jevansen, but the Fitzroy Football Club is still being misrepresented - even defamed - within these articles by these continued edits of yours. That's clear beyond doubt.

You obviously know Fitzroy still exists as a club, judging by previous response from you on this page, so why keep asserting the pretence within Wikipedia articles to the contrary? That directly damages the public image and reputation of the club, and hinders public awareness of the club.

I'm assuming the Club would have the right to intervene here, so if this continues, I'll contact them encouraging them to do so - hopefully they will.

121.210.232.42 (talk) 02:32, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

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