Talk:Battle of Beda Fomm

Cut 'n' paste

Abstracted this from existing articles, needs a polish though.Keith-264 (talk) 14:33, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Background

The background material here seems good, but rather broad and extensive for this article about a single battle. I presume it was cut-n-pasted here by Keith-264, probably from the Background section of the overarching Western Desert Campaign page. I suggest this could be summarized in one brief paragraph, with a link to that Background section for the broader perspective.

Zulu Kane (talk) 17:06, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

You might think that but others in previous discussions have taken the opposite view, which is why I added the lot. Not everyone will follow links.Keith-264 (talk) 19:25, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

If every page for every battle of the Western Desert Campaign contained the exact same extensive but distantly relevant Background sections, wouldn't you find that redundant, repetitious, and a bother to read (especially for anyone reading more than one of these pages)? It would be another matter, if this Background section were specific to this battle, for example, summarizing the battles that immediately preceded. Zulu Kane (talk) 03:34, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Battle

6–7 February

In this section, the acronym(?) "RTR" was used repeatedly, without having been previously used or explained or defined. I'm guessing it's an acronym for "Royal Tank Regiment". I've taken the liberty of linking the first mention of the "2nd RTR" and "1st RTR" to the (apparently appropriate) pages for the 2nd Royal Tank Regiment and 1st Royal Tank Regiment. Of course, if "RTR" means something else, please correct and clarify.

Zulu Kane (talk) 03:59, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Keith-264 (talk) 06:57, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Casualties

No info about the number of Italians killed and wounded in this battle?--Olonia (talk) 18:13, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

If you have any, please add. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 19:12, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

British combatants

Were the OZ and Indians involved?Keith-264 (talk) 23:23, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Specifically at Beda Fomm itself? I'm not very familiar with this action but I'm fairly sure the Australian 6th Division was primarily involved in operations a bit further north to capture Benghazi at this time, while it seems to mainly have been the British 7th Armoured at Beda Fomm. There is a map in the AS official history, Long To Benghazi p. 268 here which shows the dispositions as at 5 Feb 1941. Also according to Rodger Battle Honours of the British Empire and Commmonwealth Land Forces 1662-1991, p. 274 the only units to receive the Battle Honour "Beda Fomm" after the war appear to have been British [7th Queen's Own Hussars, 1st King's Dragoon Guards, 11th Hussars (Prince Albert's Own), The Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own), 3rd The King's Own Hussars, and Royal Tank Regiment]. Unsure of Indian involvement or if there might have been some minor Australian involvement though. Does any of this help? Anotherclown (talk) 03:08, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

That said there is a very brief summary in Laffin Brassey's Battles p. 72 as follows: "Beda Fomm, Libya (World War II) 5-7 February 1941. General O'Connor, principally using the 6th Australian Infantry and the 7th British Armoured Divisions, gained the surrender of 20,000 Italians for the loss of nine men killed and fifteen wounded." Still I think mention of the Australians here probably relates to Benghazi (in so much as it was part of the overall operations in the Western Desert at this time). I might be way off though. Anotherclown (talk) 03:15, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

There is a decent summary in Wahlert The Western Desert Campaign 1940-41, pp. 88-90. My reading of it is that the Aust 6th Division was advancing along the coast road towards Benghazi, and the Brit 7th Armoured Division was tasked with cutting off the Italians retreating in front of the Australians, which they did so at Beda Fomm. Anotherclown (talk) 04:39, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

I tend to agree, Oz pressure on the rearguard kept Italian attention divided and tanks at the rear of the retreating columns. Were there any Indian army units involved? Possibly some transport units for the Australians?Keith-264 (talk) 07:34, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

I know it doesn't definitively answer the question but I didn't see any mention of any Indian units in the sources I looked at. Sorry I can't be certain about this. Is anybody else able to assist with this please? Anotherclown (talk) 00:16, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

I thought that perhaps the 3rd Indian Motor Brigade might have been involved at Mechili but that came later. Playfair I pp. 356–362 has the Italians being pressed along the coast road by the Oz and the 7th AD being sent south of the Jebel to cut off a general retreat. No mention of Indian troops. Keith-264 (talk) 12:33, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Altered the participants and put the article through the Word splendidiser.Keith-264 (talk) 13:09, 1 October 2017 (UTC)