Talk:Attention Seeker (EP)

Requested move 2 August 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. The discussion leans to moving this. Having (EP) in the title will assure those using the search box that they've found the right title, when they see it in the drop-down list. "Attention Seeker" could be used as a proper name in the sense of assigning this title to someone as an epithet. As with Drama Queen, we may need to make the title a disambiguation in the future. – wbm1058 (talk) 15:32, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

---

Attention Seeker → Attention Seeker (EP) – Might be confusing as Attention-seeker redirects to Attention seeking. This title should also redirect there per WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. The editor whose username is Z0 07:54, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support this new EP really isn't notable. Attention seeker "Attention Seeker" song from Late Night Tales: Friendly Fires In ictu oculi (talk) 11:21, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support per nom. bd2412 T 11:25, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Weak support WP:ASTONISH, this article was only recently created anyway. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:38, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:PRECISE. There is no other article titled "Attention Seeker". Anyone taking the trouble to type the capital S probably wants this EP, and a hatnote can handle the rare reader who's lost. (And if the EP is not notable, this needs to be deleted, not moved. Moving it will require a hatnote pointing to it from Attention seeking, ironically drawing more unsought attention to it than if it's not moved.) Station1 (talk) 05:20, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

  Its confusion, not attention that we're trying to avoid here and before this was created someone who entered "Attention Seeker" into the search box would have got the Attention seeker redirect. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:10, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

  And probably would have been confused about why they weren't on an article about the new EP they were looking for. Station1 (talk) 20:11, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

  There will have to be a hatnote from Attention seeking as that's where Attention seeker leads to, so this article will "seek" attention anyway. Crouch, Swale (talk) 07:50, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

  I'd also point out that a Google search doesn't return anything until the 3rd page for the EP, nor does images return much. However that doesn't address the DIFFCAPS argument. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support, and redirect Attention Seeker to Attention seeking. Station1's point is negated by the fact that when you type "Attention Seeker" into the search box, the second entry is with this caps, and it is quite likely that users might click that by mistake.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:22, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:DIFFCAPS. Hatnotes should be sufficient. Dekimasuよ! 16:53, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - same reasons as Dekimasu. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk | contribs} 21:26, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment - this is the sort of case where WP:DIFFCAPS doesn't really work (along with the textbook example Red Meat, in my opinion). It presupposes that the reader typing text into the search box is aware of Wikipedia's capitalisation rules, and will be able to WP:RECOGNIZE the difference. I wonder if you wandered down the street, with a card saying "Attention Seeker" and asked people what they thought that meant, how many would answer that it's an EP? We should always be guided by what's right for the reader, not by trivial differences that are only apparent to hardcore Wikipedians.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:19, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

  These are not Wikipedia's capitalization rules, they are standard English capitalization rules that almost everyone understands. Of course if you wandered down a street with the out-of-context phrase Attention Seeker, most people would assume you'd be referring to yourself rather than an obscure EP, but most English speakers actually searching for the EP on line would either type the cap S or not be too surprised in landing somewhere else. Why punish those who take the trouble to do it right the first time? It doesn't even help those not looking for the album, because while many people won't bother with the shift key, few people looking for a generic phrase would unnecessarily and incorrectly shift up. Station1 (talk) 18:26, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

  Not necessarily, I always capitalize the first letter when searching and would do so for each word if I wasn't aware that titles that aren't proper nouns don't have caps throughout the title. Most people are taught (in real life) that titles start with a capital letter and they will still see "Attention Seeker" in the search suggestions. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:34, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

  That's true. Many times titles are capitalized. I misunderstood Amakuru's reference to WP's rules. On the other hand, sites like britannica.com and infoplease.com capitalize the way we do. While someone brand new to WP might seek a capitalized title for a generic term, I think anyone who's used it more than a couple of times will learn WP's norms fairly quickly. Station1 (talk) 19:04, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

  I searched for Red dwarf and clicked on Red Dwarf in the search suggestions. As pointed out when you're typing "Attention Se..." you're presented with "Attention seeking" and "Attention Seeker" but you probably won't realize the latter is a proper noun, however hatnotes can take care of that. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:15, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

  Remember we are talking about the page title here, and although it may be normal for encyclopedias like ourselves and Britannica do use sentence case for page titles, more often than not titles out there on the web are in title case. (The clue's in the name). And it's not at all unreasonable to think that Wikipedia's article on attention seeking might be called "Attention Seeker". Take a look at the search results on Google. Most of them are pages whose title contains the words "attention seeker". And in the majority of cases, it is capitalised in the title, for example [1], [2] and [3]. Given the obscurity of the EP relative to the dictionary term, and the gulf in page views between the two, (a gulf which I believe would be even bigger if this article move were to go ahead), I disagree that "hatnotes can take care of that". Sorry to be blunt, but we are not serving our readers well by applying DIFFCAPS in this instance, we are wasting their time.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:44, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.