Talk:Ashrei

I am adding considerable material to this article, and, most noticeably, moving some of the material to Wiki article on Psalm 145, and vice versa. I hope this meets with general approval. Sussmanbern (talk) 23:44, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

I recommend placing {{seealso}} and {{FurtherInformation}} tags in specific parts of the article where this was before and where a reader may be interested in seeing information found in the other. Xyz7890 (talk) 18:45, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

¶ The only thing I moved, to the article on Psalm 145, was the material on the fact that there is no verse beginning with the letter nun. I moved that to the Psalm 145 article and there enlarged it considerably. Sussmanbern (talk) 14:51, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

English translation?

I'm adding a link to an English translation. The Hebrew (in Wikisource) is already linked to in the See Also section.

It seems to me that there ought to be links to the Hebrew and an English translation easily findable within the article, as a service to the reader. It is odd to be writing about the prayer without letting people see the prayer itself. But there aren't many logical places in the article to put them. So I'm sticking it in the Text section. I think it possibly more properly belongs in the lede.

If you disagree, please discuss it here. I'm sure we can figure out how to do it better, right now I just stuck it in. M.boli (talk) 20:34, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Transliteration yoshvei / yoshevei

IP user 71.212.32.27 (talk · contribs) edits the transliteration of second word (יוֹשְׁבֵי) to be yoshevei. From the IP user's talk page:

Actually, that shva is a shva na. It is pronounced yo-she-vei with 3 distinct phonemes.

I've always heard (and said) the prayer as a no-sound, so the word has two syllables yosh-vei. Which is what this article had before the most recent edit.

But I know only a little Hebrew, I'm no expert. The shva (the two dots diacritical mark under the middle letter: שְׁ) is among the more complicated set of phonological rules in Hebrew.

This is a great prayer for humility. Happy are those who dwell in your house can mean that we are all house-guests in this world, and should act accordingly. (I realize that is not the traditional interpretation.)

So in the spirit of humility and cooperation, and no more edit-feuding, I'm opening a discussion.

My argmuent for yoshvei being normative as opposed to yoshevei is to google search the two transliterations via the phrases "ashrei yoshevei" (174 hits) vs. "ashrei yoshvei" (11,300 hits). To me, this hints that the two-syllable silent-shva is about 60 times more common than the three-syllable version. But it also hints that some dialect variation does use the three-syllable version.

Again, I'm asking for community input. I figure people who have Ashrei on their watchlist are likely more experienced than I am. M.boli (talk) 23:25, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

An Artscroll siddur, which has marks over all the shvas that are to be pronounced, says that this one is pronounced. That is evidence yoshevei correct. I will consider this topic closed. M.boli (talk) 17:26, 31 May 2020 (UTC)