Talk:Ammonium perchlorate

Used in mines

I suppose when you say "used in mines" you mean the type of mine that's a hole in the ground used to get raw material, not the kind of mine that you bury/drop in water and blows up when something triggers it? Maybe you should make this more clear. "Explosive used in mines" could mean either. Nvinen 07:03, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

In Water

I do not know if I am out of place mentioning this here, but can we write something on AP being in Las Vegas, Nv municiple water? It is found in Lake Mead as well as 1 in 5 samples of lettuce grown in California. I thought since the PEPCON incident is mentioned, this might as well? George Knapp special report- -68.108.151.2 07:59, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Decomposition

The decomposition temperatures are clearly wrong. Does anyone have a reference for these? Evand 15:23, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Evand. Decomposition temperatures are taken from DSC analyses from chemical literature. They sound to be correct since you can find similar values from different authors. I can quote the following paper: "Effects of Nanometer Ni, Cu, Al and NiCu powders on Thermal Decomposition of Ammonium Perchlorate" by Leili Liu et Al. published on Propellants, Explosives and Pyrotechnics 29(2004) No. 1 pp.34-38. The sole objection that I do to the data is that AP during DSC analysis is heated with a temperature gradient of 1-50 deg K/min while inside a propellant the temperature rise is extremely higher (1000-2000 deg K/s). The kinetics is totally different. Moreover, some papers (Boggs et al. AIAA journal in the sixties, I could be more precise if you want) reveal that there is a thin molten layer during combusion at more than 20 bar. Is likely that, at those pressures, the decomposition is anticipated by a melting process that is not present during decomposition at ambient pressure. Mr pipps 10:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I made a mistake in writing the page in the Second-Step Decomposition temperature. I exchanged kelvin and celsius. Now is fixed. Sorry. --Mr pipps 09:38, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Texture/Toxicity

Ammonium Perchlorate is a crystalline substance. It is NOT rubbery. Also, it is very toxic when burned. I seriously doubt they would use this in a mine. I believe they do use Ammonium Nitrate.

Well, it's not a crystalline texture in the sense that NaCl, sugar, or ammonium nitrate is -- if you rub it between your fingers, it feels "softer" and "rubbery" to a much greater degree than I would expect from an ionic salt. It is toxic when burned because it releases HCl gas as a major exhaust product; that's actually less toxic (though nastier and more corrosive) than many organic toxins resulting from, say, incomplete combustion of aromatic plastics. It also leaves the environment faster. The monopropellant temperature (ie if you used pure AP as the explosive, which is AIUI the normal route) is only 1400 deg K -- not actually that high for an explosive, only a bit higher than ammonium nitrate's 1250 K. Burned with a fuel, that number rises substantially, of course (often into the realm of 2500-3000 K). Anyway, I don't really think either sentance is correct. Got a proposed alternative? Evand 22:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree completely with the absence in mining explosives of ammonium perchlorate. The combustion would generate Chlorine-based compounds that are highly toxic. In that case a mixture of ammonium nitrate and some fuels is used.

I also agree with christalline nature of the material but I can assure that the crystal is strong and breaks along cleavage plains, as other salts. In fact the grinding of such material generates powders with sharp edges. The feeling of "rubbery" and "soft" material might be given by the shape of the original crystals. For example, Space-Grade Raw AP can have a bean-shape (I don't know why, probably a heritage from the production process) and this fact can give the powder a strange consistency if touched. --Mr pipps 11:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

One may eat this stuff too. -lysdexia 07:15, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Hazards

What information is available regarding specific fire or other hazards leading to the hazard of Ammonium Perchlorate (AP)exploding? The Bureau of ATF considers AP 15 microns in size as an explosive. Is any test data available to support this classification?

-Response- After the PEPCON incident, the knee-jerk reaction was to designate all AP as a Class 1 explosive. Hazard classification tests were previously conducted in 1982 (Ref 1), but were redone in 1989 as a direct result of the PEPCON incident (Ref 2). Both tests were done on 200 micron AP, the "nominal" size usually shipped in bulk (smaller particle sizes are available, but somewhat special order and nothing in the 15 micron range that I know of). These both conclude that 200 micron AP should not be designated a Class 1 explosive, but should keep its Class 4 oxidizer designation.

In 1990, a special classification for AP <15 micron was established in NFPA 430 because of the PEPCON incident and "other DOD information" (the available info is limited), this was revisited and reconfirmed in 2006.(Ref 3) Some have argued, based on testing, that it should be a Class 2 oxidizer.(Ref 3)

Ref 1: Westover, D., et al, "Hazards Testing of Ammonium Perchlorate," US Army Armament Research and Development Command (ARDEC), Ref AD-E400 842, May 1982.

Ref 2: Merrill, C.I., et al, "Ammonium Perchlorate Transportation Hazards Testing," Astronautics Laboratory, Air Force Space Technology Center (AFSC), Ref AL-TR-89-018, April 1989

Ref 3: Buc, Elizabeth C., Hoffman, Donald J., "Development of an Enhanced Hazard Classification System for Oxidizers Research Project," The Fire Protection Research Foundation, April 2006

Molecular Formula

In the table on the right it's listed as ClH4NO4, which is clearly wrong, and disagrees with the first paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.75.248 (talk) 21:13, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Reactivity

On every MSDS (cas number 7790-98-9) i can find about AP , NFPA 704 is Health Hazard: 2 Fire Hazard: 1 Reactivity: 4 not 1-0-2 as mentionned of the wikipedia's AP page... example : http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Ammonium_perchlorate-9922929 (updated 11/01/2010) http://ammonium-perchlorate-sale.com/resources/AMONIUM+PERCHLORATE+MSDS.pdf (updated 03/18/2009) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.121.212.45 (talk) 15:32, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

But other sources give other values, eg. ORCBS, Uni of Akron and Ohio State Uni all give 1-0-4 whereas Aldrich MSDS gives 2-0-3 or even 0-0-2

As manufacturers and, in fact, any competent person can assign NFPA codes, it's not surprising that different combinations are out there

I think we can agree that Reactivity of 2 is too low, but a Fire Hazard of 0 seems more usual. I have changed to 1-0-4.

21Bede (talk) 14:34, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

I think the reactivity of 4 is too high.It's not so reactive. 小小小硝酸 (talk) 19:15, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Stability

this packaging claims it is »extremely unstable«, but pepcons datasheet claims it is stable. which is it? --Ysangkok (talk) 11:31, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

It's stable at room temperature and you can store it properly.But if heat strongly or slam it hard,it can explode. 小小小硝酸 (talk) 19:17, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

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