Talk:Altan (band)

Fair use rationale for Image:Altan33.jpg

Image:Altan33.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Altanfirst.jpg

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BetacommandBot 08:18, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Altanstamp.jpg

Image:Altanstamp.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:07, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Logo in infobox

As per consensus at Template talk:Infobox Musical artist I have removed the logo from the infobox. You are invited to participate in the discussion. Zytsef (talk) 21:28, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Origin

If the band originated in County Donegal, that means they originated in the country called Ireland, not just the island of Ireland. Plus the infobox uses country, not island or geographical area. If it is from County Donegal then it's from County Donegal, saying Ireland implies that it was formed in Northern Ireland as well, but all the sources say it was formed in County Donegal which means Ireland (country not island, which on Wikipedia resides at the article named [incorrectly by many people's view] Republic of Ireland. Canterbury Tail talk 03:02, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

No, most of the band are from Donegal. The band could have originated in Belfast, Donegal or and Dublin, where Ní Mhaonaigh and Kennedy performed, performed and taught, repectively. They said they left their teaching jobs in Co. Dublin for become full time musicians, so it's actually not 100% where the band actually came together as a band or where Ní Mhaonaigh and Kennedy started began their musical ventures as a duo, as this started before they were teaching. Therefore, it is notable to say they grouped in Ireland - island of.--Theosony (talk) 03:33, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough, I see the origin in County Donegal has been removed. It seems that the reference being used to support that it was formed in County Donegal was actually a copy of Wikipedia from a couple of years ago, that someone had entered to provide a circular reference. As a result I've removed that reference, as it wasn't valid, and removed County Donegal from the infobox as well. If an origin reference can be provided for an actual place of origin then I suggest we put it back in, but until (and if) then we'll have to leave it as is. Can't actually specify a country of origin if we don't have a reference to show it. Just as long as they didn't decide to form the band while on a trip to the Bahamas :) Canterbury Tail talk 13:40, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I am reverting some of your edits until this topic is more widely discussed. Donegal will remain in the infobox until an exact place can be found. I will check on the previous record companies' websites. It would probably be better to learn about Irish traditional bands and artists before editing the contents of their pages.--Theosony (talk) 18:39, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

If it's County Donegal then the infobox should state the country of Ireland, not the island, as locations should be country based, not landmass or continent based. Oh and knowledge of subjects on Wikipedia is not required to edit articles to comply with Wikipedia policies, manuals of style and practices, just a knowledge of Wikipedia. There tends to be two types of Wikipedia users (ignoring the vandals and other troublemakers), people who add content due to their knowledge of such things, and people who use their knowledge of Wikipedia to ensure articles comply with the way Wikipedia works. You are one of the former, I am one of the latter. Both perform vital roles on the encyclopaedia. Canterbury Tail talk 20:17, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

However, Ireland takes a different line. Gaoth Dobhair & Donegal do not take a line break as citation and confirmation is still needed. However, Ireland, as an island has been confirmed.--Theosony (talk) 21:12, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Timeline

I'm making some changes to the timeline, but I thought I'd explain them here just in case there were questions. I'm primarily motivated by removing the minor guest appearances - it doesn't really add much to the article to graphically represent one, two, or just a few appearances in concert, in my opinion (and anyway, WP:PROSE is preferred to lists and the like in general). I think the way the musicians are separated in the article is a good guide for including them on the timeline: regular members and regular touring substitutes should be included, but "guests" probably should not. --Fru1tbat (talk) 13:29, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry: I totally disagree with you! The large timeline is completely necessary and needs to be exhaustive. All the musicians should be included in the Timeline section for this is the purpose of the Timeline section, that is to easily and pleasantly visualize guests and substitute musicians' involvements in the touring schedule of the band, alongside the regular studio members...! Besides, it visually shows how important are guests and substitute musicians in the band's career! Anyway, as a matter of fact, your version of the Timeline section is unreadable, illegible and visually ugly! HurluGumene (talk) 23:51, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I strongly disagree about the timeline needing to be exhaustive. The standard should be notability, not exhaustiveness, and in the context of a timeline of a band, a guest musician's one-time appearance is just not notable. It's a tiny sliver on an otherwise empty line, and the prose stands perfectly well on its own. Not everything needs to be graphed or plotted.

I'm assuming you don't like the overlapping colors, either. It seems to be pretty conventional usage in timelines for bands where one person has multiple roles. I personally don't find it "illegible" at all, though "visually ugly" I can't really debate, of course, as it's purely subjective.

(For reference, my final version, with diff to previous)

--Fru1tbat (talk) 23:55, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I still strongly disagree with you! The standard is... only the standard! Sometimes, in some cases, we need to make an exception...! Altan is such a case! All the musicians involved in Altan should be graphed or plotted. Anyway, he who can do more can do less! And yes, the overlapping colors are awful... and thus, the timelines barely readable! I know it's a pretty conventional usage in timelines for bands where one person has multiple roles but the result is definitely ugly! Besides, many wikipedians are subjective in their choises without this usually being considered as a problem, I often noticed...! So, let's stick to the current update of mine... HurluGumene (talk) 00:29, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

I prefer Fru1tbat's version and agree that timelines should not be exhaustive. The version with the minuscule lines depicting guests and temporary musicians is almost unreadable. --Laser brain (talk) 11:18, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

The "minuscule lines" version is far more readable than the multi-colored one... HurluGumene (talk) 11:55, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

This is not an all-or-nothing debate. If the colors or formatting is not agreeable to everyone, that can be very easily changed. What I'm more concerned with is the content. --Fru1tbat (talk) 12:27, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

So am I! The content should keep on including all guest and substitute musicians... HurluGumene (talk) 12:49, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

But why? The content is still in the article in list format. What makes it necessary/appropriate to include all of it on the timeline as well? And regarding your previous comment, for what reason should exceptions to convention be made specifically for this article? --Fru1tbat (talk) 15:23, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Why? Just because guest and substitute musicians are much more (visually) meaningful included in the Timeline graphic...! The exception is based on the fact that, as a celtic music band, Altan have had much more guest and substitute musicians in their live career than any other bands and on the fact that all these musicians are important in Altan's live career... HurluGumene (talk) 08:44, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

This is not a sufficient rationale. Please respect consensus and stop pushing these changes. --Laser brain (talk) 10:50, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

This is a sufficient reason. What consensus?! A 2-people consensus?! Laser brain, please don't talk to me as if I was a youngster...! HurluGumene (talk) 12:07, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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ta

I don't think I've ever seen a more dismally formatted article. The member line-up section alone... it's a headache. --Jennica✿ / ^talk 04:35, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

I tried to make some improvements here a while back, but I don't think my changes stuck, and I didn't feel like making a fight out of it. I do agree that the article needs significant work, though. --Fru1tbat (talk) 13:08, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

@Jennica and Fru1tbat: I've done an extensive cleanup of a lot of unsourced bits, unnecessary show/tour announcements (and associated fan commentary), and a few other bits of reorganization. The article needs a rewriting still, but the mass of details is much better now. It's semi-protected for a month as well, due to the continual return of Lurulu sockpuppets. I would recommend taking a stab at the history sections now that they aren't quite so cluttered and are more focused on album recordings, lineup changes, label changes, etc. Any effort to get away from WP:Proseline would be good. -- ferret (talk) 19:33, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Much appreciated - it looks much better already! I'll try to find time to continue the cleanup (if Jennica or another editor doesn't get to it first). --Fru1tbat (talk) 19:48, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

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