Talk:Al-Malikiyah

Aramaen-Syriac?

Once again, is there any sources which talks about the large Aramaen/Syriac population of Al-Malikiyah? If not then change it

Majority of Syriacs in Syria call themselves Assyrian, this is seen with the assyrian political parties, festivals etc. Just look at the Assyrian New Years festivals and witness how many assyrian flag are there and how many people attend!!

please without a source i want it to be changed from Syriac to Assyrian (which is an actual ethnicity - not a religious denomination) —Preceding -- Malik Danno (talk) 20:01, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Issue is aready discussed. Most common name should be used. Syriacs or Aramean-Syriacs should be used in Syria and Turkey, and Assyrians or Chaldean Assyrians should be used in Iraq and Iran. And no, majority of the Syriacs call them selves for Syriacs. THose you are talking about is eastern Syriacs (Assyrians) and are a minority. AramaeanSyriac (talk) 21:55, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

So called rojava

Adding the so-called rojava template and categories in towns and villages under military occupation by YPG militias militia does not change that official status. This is an on-going military conflict and any interim control (YPG, ISIS, FSA) does not mean a change in the political status of the village/town. I am moving to remove these categories (rojava, cantons, IS, etc). Comments are welcome. Thanks. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 01:04, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Rojava denotes a de facto existing distinct framework of civil governance in distinct parts of Northern Syria, there are 5 Million Google hits for it including all major English language media, and this is what the entire Rojava article on the Wikipedia is about. You may personally dislike anything about this sentence, or the well-sourced elaboration of facts in the Rojava article and in other articles, but your dislike is no valid reason to delete related material from the Wikipedia. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 21:10, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Proposed move

I propose moving this article to Derîk. This is the Kurdish name of this Kurdish-majority town, and as Kurdish has equal standing with Arabic in the AANES, it doesn't make sense to use the Arabic name for a settlement where Arabs are a minority. This is the policy we follow for the article on Kobanî, where the official name under the regime was the Arabic Ayn al-Arab. Konli17 (talk) 05:15, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

The Ottoman name for Ayn al-Arab was Arab pinar. The change to Kobani was purely political. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 18:55, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

• Support move.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 17:48, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

• OPPOSE. The official name and common name is Al-Malikiyah. Having a Kurdish majority now does not justify changing the name. This is like a Mexican relative majority in California today deciding to change the name of the state to something else. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 18:35, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

@Cengizsogutlu: You have shown interest in this article. Please see this discussion here! Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 18:38, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

well, nice you enter the discussion Amr Ibn Al Kulthoum. Al Malikya was an Arab army officer and is therefore remembered with the name. Do you support the Arabization policies denying the Kurdish/Assyrian past and presence? I don't. And in California (Los Angeles, San Francisco), nor Nevada (Las Vegas) and Florida (all Spanish words and names), they don't deny the Spanish/Mexican past. So your argument seems a little weak. But let's discuss.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 19:00, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Whether you like it or not, it's not up to WP (or yourself) in this case, to decide which name to use! There is an official name and we have to stick with it. If a future government of Syria decides to revert back to the Syriac name (Derik), then I am all for it. You may want to read this French article about how Kurds came to this area from Turkey during the French occupation of Syria. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 19:07, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. The city is part of the republic of Syria, the only entity internationally recognized, not the AANES. The kurdish name should be mentioned, but its the official name that should be the main title.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:43, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose as per كلثوم|Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم, Konli17 is a POV pusher who changes all edits on his viewpoints. Maybe with your logic we should change diyarbakir to Amed‎ and erbil to Hewlêr?? Shadow4dark (talk) 20:52, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose . The city is officialy under control of Syrian Armed Forces since Operation Peace Spring. Syrian army controls border area between Al-Malikiyah to Tal Tamr. Secondly it doesnt give SDF right to change offcial name of city. We got same discussion in other Syrian towns as well for ex in the city of Al-Rai, Syria. The city hosts mostly Syrian Turkmen and even in control of Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army ( Syrian Turkmen ) it doesnt give right to change cities name although Al-Rai, Syria has Turkish- Turkman name Çobanbey.

Lastly about Kurdish name Derik status. Anyone who wonder where the name Derik comes from; There is a town in Turkey called also Derik, Turkey. The town is first mentioned in the late 14th century, Prior to the Assyrian and Armenian genocide, Assyrians and Armenians formed the majority in the city ( Derik, Turkey ). The Armenian population of the county continued to form the majority even up until the 1930s, when systematic state persecution forced many to emigrate Syria. One family continues to live here, and they maintain the old Armenian Church. The Armenian Apostolic Church in Derik is only one out of six in Anatolian Turkey that operates as a church. That explains reasons of city called Derik because inhabitants expect Arabs and Turkmans are Assyrian, Kurdish and Armenians in city. After Partiya Yekîtiya Demokrat insurgency many of Arabs including even Kurds fled to Turkey. There is camps build near city of Cizre. What i see about those user Konli17 always manipulating articles about Kurds. I would like to say that I am not a grudge against the Kurds. But this guys edits are constantly manipulating articles in wiki about Kurds even not long ago he mention that Turkey bombs Refuge camp Mahkmour in recent operation of Claw-Eagle in fact even Ministry of Defence mention that targets NEAR the camp is being targeted to manipulate the article he puts REFUGEE camp section. I don't know what their purpose is but this is an encyclopedia not Kurdish diaspora propaganda place..Cengizsogutlu (talk) 21:58, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Also, There is even cities in Turkey almost 90% Kurdish population for ex Diyarbakır people calls it in Kurdish Amed but it doesnt change the official name status. I would also like to mention Arabs here fled to Turkey there are now mostly Kurds, Assyrians and Armenians left. They are mostly from Turkey people escaped by Armenian genocide and oppression in later years. Coming to the city as refugee, between 1910s to 1930s then let the people flee of their homes to Turkey in the name of creating so called Rojova and dare to rename after kinda ETNIC CLEANSING is WAR CRIME. PLEASE CHEK POPULATION BEFORE 2004 191,994 INHABITANTS NOW barely 40.000. It is unacceptable to use Wikipedia for your own ethnic cleansing purposes.Cengizsogutlu (talk) 00:11, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

These arguments have been made, and rejected, at Talk:Kobanî#Requested_move_19_December_2019. Konli17 (talk) 09:53, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Nope, it was just full of IP socks.Shadow4dark (talk) 17:35, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

If that's true, why aren't you having it changed to its Arabic name? Konli17 (talk) 17:41, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Maybe you should change diyarbakir to Amed?Shadow4dark (talk) 19:44, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

You didn't answer my question. You seem very determined to have this Kurdish-majority town in Syria use its Arabic name, but I've seen no effort on your part to have a larger Kurdish-majority city in the same country do the same. Why not? Konli17 (talk) 01:53, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Simple it is Syrian Arab Republic Not Greater Kurdistan.Shadow4dark (talk) 05:03, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

You mean Kobani? Konli17 (talk) 11:52, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

The name Derik is the one that it had before the arabization campaign by Assad. Al Malikiyah is a name deriving of an important arab army officer. I don't think Wikipedia will want to follow the ethnic cleansing campaign by a president also known as a hereditary dictator. Derik is also the name the current Administration is giving it, which is the name the local population is giving it. Syria has no control over Derik at all.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 16:01, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Konli, I suggest you go back and study some history. The name al-Malikiyah was adopted in 1957, long before Hafez Assad succeeded to power in 1970. Your argument just failed! Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 18:21, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't think they care about what we wrote above? The city got hes name from Armenian & Assyrian refugees from Turkey. Derik, Turkey. Secondly its a BIG SLANDER calling somewhere arabization project. What i see with false claims KURDISHING PROSSESS. City is controled by Coo SAA & YPG since Operation Spring Shield i also mention above since october 2019 from Al malikiyah to Tall Tamr there is even Russian convoys. CITY IS IMPOSSIBLE IN HANDS OF SDF because there was a agreement that border cities including 6km-+ cities such us Al Malikiyah under Turko-Russo joint patrol. SDF retreats 6km+- to south. If you do not live in the cave, look at the recent events. Even if you make the name of the city Ayn al arab to Kobani with the help from pro Kobani editors on Wikipedia, we should discuss this again to RENAME KOBANI TO AYN EL ARAB. Cengizsogutlu (talk) 23:06, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

These arguments have been made, and rejected, at Talk:Kobanî#Requested_move_19_December_2019. Konli17 (talk) 23:59, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

There is strong consensus it should be not moved. Shadow4dark (talk) 00:11, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that's why Kobanî isn't called Ayn al Arab. What I'm looking for is a consistent use of policies that have already been decided upon for larger articles/settlements. Konli17 (talk) 00:22, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

First this isn't how you propose something to move, second, this is ridiculous. Beshogur (talk) 07:39, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

At Talk:Kobanî#Requested_move_19_December_2019, the main criterion seemed to be use in English language sources. If this is the policy, it ought to be a relatively simple matter to see whether the Kurdish or Arabic name is used more in English language sources. What's the usual way to test this? Konli17 (talk) 12:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

We don't do moves if it has NPOV issues, see this. https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:2019_Turkish_offensive_into_north-eastern_Syria/Archive_4#Requested_move_2_December_2019 Shadow4dark (talk) 12:08, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Happily this proposed move more closely resembles this one: Talk:Kobanî#Requested_move_19_December_2019. Konli17 (talk) 12:33, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

At Talk:Kobanî#Requested_move_19_December_2019, the main criterion was use in English language sources. If this is the policy, it ought to be a relatively simple matter to see whether the Kurdish or Arabic name is used more in English language sources. Is there any good reason this criterion ought not to apply here? Konli17 (talk) 13:19, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Anyone? Konli17 (talk) 15:22, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

NO, kobani gained WP:COMMONNAME due isis kurd war and is inrelevant here. Shadow4dark (talk) 01:54, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Quite the opposite, Derik has also become this town's common name in English language sources over the course of the war, so it's very relevant. Konli17 (talk) 11:01, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Apparently, WP:COMMONNAME is by far the most used policy justification in move discussions. Unless anyone can show why it ought not apply here, then it seems that all that's left for us to do is compare search engine results. Konli17 (talk) 16:41, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Dayrik name is Syriac not Kurdish

@Paradise Chronicle: The name Dayrik is Syriac not Kurdish. I can get a reference for this. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 00:05, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Its origin is irrelevant, it's the name the town is known best in English-language sources, which you moved it away from. Konli17 (talk) 21:28, 16 August 2020 (UTC)