Talk:Agamemnon

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 March 2021 and 11 June 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Random2187. Peer reviewers: LieutenantKennedy17, JLW546.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ptorres19.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:35, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled

This page is very odd reading, what with all the "alternatively" clauses presenting suddenly different events as facts.

image

if the image is not of agamemnon, shouldn't it be removed? or is in relevent?

• Should be kept, but some explanation of Schliemann and why it is called this.--JW1805 7 July 2005 22:28 (UTC)

Rod of Rule?

Is the rod of rule really associated with Agamemnon, and what is the source for this information? --JW1805 7 July 2005 22:34 (UTC)

Removed "Are you stupid?" David F 04:17, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Is there any evidence that Agamemnon was a real historical character, or is he completly a fictional\ mythological character?

Applesnpeaches (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC) To that effect, I read that there is no proof that either Achiles, Odyseus nor Agamemnon were even alive in the same period. Note that the story of the Illiad was a oral history of Greek pre-history created for cultural festivities, where all heroes of old were celebrated and commemorated. Applesnpeaches (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Style/Substance

Just because the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica article is public domain doesn't mean that it has to be copied nearly word for word onto Wikipedia. Be more creative. --Harlsbottom 11:55, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect

According to the Iliad, when the war was thought to be lost cunning Odysseus devised a plan. As a token of surrender he gave the Trojans the famous Trojan Horse. In the night warriors crept out of the wooden horse and captured the city.

These events took place after the time frame of The Iliad, which ends with the funeral of Hector. Could we correct this? Kohran 17:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

My problem is with the early life and return to Greece sections. Shouldn't there be something saying that the source for the Ancient Greece section is a play?

I think it should also be said that The Trojan War most likely didn't happen, and is a myth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.127.198.77 (talk) 15:56, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Applesnpeaches (talk) 01:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC) Myth of Troy? As I've mentioned above: I read that there is no proof that either Achiles, Odysseus nor Agamemnon were even alive in the same period. Note that the story of the Illiad was a oral history of Greek pre-history created for cultural festivities, where all heroes of old were celebrated and commemorated. Troy may have existed, but real details of the war are lost. Or at least mixed with myth and cultural Greek heores after the period of Greek national coherence was beginning to take affect. Could we include this in the article? ApplesnPeachesApplesnpeaches (talk) 01:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Archaeologists uncovered the Trojan Horse in the past few years, disputing the view that everything in Homer was entirely made up. This was in 2021. Most of the articles from before that date keep saying the horse was not found (it wasn't, yet - so they were correct as well).

"The Jerusalem Post also reported that Boston University Professors Christine Morris and Chris Wilson believe that the tests and studies conducted align with the belief. "The carbon dating tests and other analysis have all suggested that the wooden pieces and other artefacts date from the 12th or 11th centuries BC." The professors also have, "high degree of confidence" that the structure discovered is linked to the iconic horse...

"This matches the dates cited for the Trojan War, by many ancient historians like Eratosthenes or Proclus. The assembly of the work also matches the description made by many sources. I don't want to sound overconfident, but I'm pretty certain that we found the real thing," they were further quoted as saying."

The article should at least examine the evidence that the city of Agamemnon and the evidence for all the various Trojan Wars do lend some historical credibility to the Trojan War mentioned not only by homer, but by Eratosthenes and Proclus (and others).El Cubedo (talk) 18:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, that article was a hoax. Botterweg14 (talk) 04:29, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

There was almost definitely a Trojan War, as there are ruins on that site from around that time, as well as many skeletons.24.147.27.170 (talk) 02:08, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

There is an incorrect statement in Personality, for Achilles' primary concern is also himself, his own glory. Remember, he asks Zeus, through his mother Thetis, to so chastise his own army that they long for his return. There must be other Greek kings you can cite here to contrast selfishness with selflessness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.23.202.112 (talk) 01:38, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

The article contradicts itself. Agamemnon clearly was an historical figure (and the article has sentences that give him that status) and myths grew up around him. But his armor exists, his place of dwelling exists, and there really was a Trojan War. The Trojan Horse has been found by archaeologists. Agamemnon's palace has been excavated and I believe some of the tombs have had paleontological analysis showing that it was a family related to other noble families of Greece. So while the details of his life (and the war) may be sketchy or lost, both the war and Agamemnon are real historical phenomena. ~~

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 14:48, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Inconsistency in "Early Life" section

does any one else think "Atreus was murdered by Aegisthus and his wife Clytaemnestra, who took possession of the throne of Mycenae and ruled jointly with his own father Thyestes. During this period Agamemnon and his brother, Menelaus, took refuge with Tyndareus, king of Sparta. There they respectively married Tyndareus's daughters Clytemnestra and Helen. Agamemnon and Clytemnestra had four children: two sons, Orestes and Chrysothemis, and two daughters, Iphigenia and Electra. Menelaus succeeded Tyndareus in Sparta, while Agamemnon, with his brother's assistance, drove out Aegisthus and Thyestes to recover his father's kingdom. He extended his dominion by conquest and became the most powerful prince in Greece." is incorrect? Even if you knew nothing about these people, there seems to be some awkward chronology somewhere.

Also, Clytaemnestra and Aegisthus successfully murdered Agamemnon, this is the Greek tale that most of us hear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.64.147.63 (talk) 18:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Hero

Would you say that calling him a hero is the wrong usage of the word? Is he a demigod? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.22.226.238 (talk) 03:35, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

One does not have to be a demigod to be a hero.(Huey45 (talk) 06:50, 30 April 2010 (UTC))

URU

The text says "Hittite sources mention ^URU Akagamunaš" -- can anyone tell me what "URU" means? Thanks. -- four tildes Geĸrίtzl (talk) 21:58, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

See Cities of the Ancient Near East for an explanation.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 08:22, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

-os/as/es but not -us

Can we leave Greek names as they are instead of trying to Latinize them? Greek names end in -os (Menelaos), or -as (Atreas) or in several other ways, but not in -us. Latins changed them to make them consistent with their own names, but there is no need whatsoever to get our information about Greece and Greek names through Latin and not directly from Greek. London is London and not Londinium, Beijing is Beijing and not Peking, so can we please respect the names of my ancestors and leave them as they were? Thank you very much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.66.200.1 (talk) 12:55, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

That's a great suggestion. This article needs tons of work. El Cubedo (talk) 18:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Comments and questions

1. The introduction says that "Agamemnon ... was the son of King Atreus". At the end of the article I read "Another account makes him the son of Pleisthenes (the son or father of Atreus), who is said to have been Aerope's first husband." It's not clear what is the source of this claim since no source is given. The claim should probably be moved to the introduction.

2. "In some later versions Clytemnestra herself does the killing, or they do it together, in his own home."

Who is the source for this?

3. I don't understand what is the meaning of "prototype" for the story of Agamemnon towards the beginning of the article.

4. Aside from the explanations of Aeschylus and Sophocles, what was the explanation of the wrath of Artemis in Greek mythology?

5. What was the rational behind human sacrifice in Greek mythology? How was the sacrifice of Iphigenia explained?

6. "When Agamemnon came home he was slain by either Aegisthus (in the oldest versions of the story) or Clytemnestra."

Who wrote the oldest story? Homer?

7. "This episode is also found in Clement of Alexandria, [7] in Stephen of Byzantium (Kopai and Argunnos), and in Propertius, III with minor variations.[8]"

Is the comma after Propertius necessary?

Page editing

Hi. As a part of a class project, I was tasked with editing an article relating to what we had learned in class. After reading of The Iliad in class, I chose to do edits on this particular page. The edits will not change anything major nor will they remove any previously added information. I am just adding some information based on what I think would help to improve the page as a whole, filling in gaps as I see fit. I hope this is OK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ptorres19 (talk • contribs) 00:59, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

ICE77 (talk) 04:13, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Historical prototype

I removed: "Hittite sources mention Akagamunaš, ruler of Ahhiyawa (land of Achaeans) in the 14th century BC.[4][5] This is a possible prototype of the Agamemnon of mythology, or at least the source of his name." Of the two citations, the first one rejects the idea of a possible connection, and although I haven't read the second one I'm confident it is is rather old (I believe the copyright date must refer to the completion of the last volume but Agamemnon was in the first volume written in the 1920s). We now know that Akagamunaš was a misreading and should be Kagamuna, and know that "A small gap in the text at this point makes it uncertain whether Kagamuna is the ancestor of the Ahhiyawan king (the letter writer) or the Assuwan king." and Melchert "regards this [Agamemnon] suggestion as even less plausible than the Kadmos proposal". (Yes, it's also been suggested that Kagamuna = Cadmus.) Therefore, believing this is a theory that's not not taken seriously by modern scholars, I don't believe it merits mention. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 17:08, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Adding Content and some Reformatting

I've been working on filling out the article some in my sandbox and on Monday the 7th was going to introduce my edits. I'll be adding a section on the Curse of House Atreus, and depictions of Agamemnon in Media and Art (mostly famous paintings he appears in and his portrayals in film and television). I also split the section on the Trojan War into three sub-sections: 'Sailing for Troy' 'The Iliad' and 'End of the War'. I added the tale about Palamedes being framed by Odysseus and Agamemnon's role, as well as the death of Ajax and him cursing the sons of Atreus. I mostly left alone any content already present on the article though I did move some things around and rewrote a couple sentences to make them flow better. Random2187 (talk) 20:00, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Rethinking Revenge

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 April 2024 and 11 June 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): DkGreenleaf, Polykarpiris (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Lemurred (talk) 20:31, 4 June 2024 (UTC)