Talk:Adventure Time: Distant Lands

Contested deletion

I've cleaned up the obvious copyright infringement (it will need to be stricken from the history, still) and I plan to expand the page like the other Adventure Time articles I've worked on.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:55, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Paraphrase

@Alex 21: I just wanted to chat about the paraphrasing stuff. Copyright issues come up with close paraphrasing, which is defined as superficial modifications to an original string of text (e.g., "There was a really bright star" becomes "There was a very bright star"). The charge that these edits constitute "close paraphrasing" seems off. Take the first summary: The original logline is three sentences long. The wiki-summary is one. The original has a variety of creative phrases (e.g., "lovable little robot", "deadly space emergency", "one here to call"), of which only one is duplicated in the summary, but that duplication is noted in quotes w/ source. In regard to that point, some duplication/quoting is totally fine per Wikipedia's policies (fair use and all that jazz), just as long as its kept to a minimum. Finally, I can't find anywhere in the TV:MoS that says summaries can't be added before episodes air, but I surely could've missed that. Anyway, I just wanted to open a dialogue here.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:36, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

@Alex 21: Your reply wasn't very helpful. I'm intimately aware of copyright issues. I'm more curious about how those edits were violations, as well as the MOS summary bit.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 16:47, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Gen. Quon, if the "Your reply wasn't very helpful" was about my lack of reply in the two hours since your first comment, then apologies that I wasn't able to respond when you first pinged me; I'm typically asleep at 1.06 and 3.17 in the morning.

It is standard practice and a long-standing consensus that states that we don't add summaries until they've aired; if you wish to change that, then that's likely a discussion for another place. The summary section is for a detailed summary of the entire episode, and it is not possible to do that by paraphrasing. Per the template documentation, |ShortSummary= is for A short 100–200 word plot summary of the episode. Make summaries specific to that episode (as in, a description that would normally not be confused with another episode). Episode summaries must not be copied from other sources, as this violates WP:COPYRIGHT. Further guidance on plot summaries may be found at WP:TVPLOT. Emphasis on the A short 100– part.

Every editor's opinion on what paraphrasing constitutes differs, so to save any issues with paraphrasing and copyright violations, it's best not to do it at all, and wait until you can summarize it in your own words; after all, there is no rush. But I see that you have continued these edits despite BRD, the status quo or waiting for further discussion, so I see that you are not likely to wait for an agreement or consensus. -- /Alex/₂₁ 00:07, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

I believe the reply he’s considering is your edit summaries?--Simmerdon3448 (talk) 03:12, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Simmerdon3448, the edit summaries in the edits that were made seven hours before the initial post? I made no edits to Wikipedia between the first and second ping/post. -- /Alex/₂₁ 03:38, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

@Alex 21: For some reason, I got a notification after I added this section here that you had made a second edit, which I interpreted as a reply to this. I realize now I had the timeline off. My bad in that regard! I have stricken my second comment. As for the consensus bit, that's what I'm curious about: You keep saying that consensus states this and that, but I can't find anywhere that confirms this as policy. Additionally, the "A short 100–" part you cite is in regard to series articles, not seasons/series/groupings of specials. Anyway, I was just wanting to read up on the policy. I've been an active TV editor on Wikipedia for about 8 years now, and added plenty of episode synopsis summaries before they aired. I was unaware this was discouraged.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 15:26, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Not everything needs to be policy. This article doesn't need to exist by policy. We don't need to list episodes in tables by policy. It's general consensus, likely of which was discussed at WT:TV or WT:MOSTV. (I'll further point both places to this discussion, to open it up to a wider array of editors.) "A short 100–" part you cite is in regard to series articles? Come again? It's in regard to the |ShortSummary= parameter as it is listed in the documentation at Template:Episode list/doc, and most definitely concerns the episode in question. -- /Alex/₂₁ 23:25, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

In my humble opinion, I'm in favor of not adding previews unless the episode was released or at least a preview commercial/advertisement of the episode has been released. The series isn't due until may 2020. That's 6 months away. I'm positive this information isn't too necessary to be shown right away. But that's just my opinion.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 06:41, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

HBO Max is coming in May 2020, but AT:DL may not be released on opening day; it's most likely going to be released a couple months in, which, however, only further supports your position on how far away it is. -- /Alex/₂₁ 07:07, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Again, I misread your post. I took the "A short 100– part" to refer to a section in WP:TVPLOT, which was right in front of it, rather than the boilerplate quote. Ope. But I still fail to see how it really means much. Nowhere in that wording is there an explicit call for a detailed summary; I can see why one would be useful, but likewise, I don't see how a shorter (and almost certainly temporary!) one would be verboten. As for when info should/n't be included, I'm a inclusionist at heart, and that colors my approach to editing. Since there isn't a rule/policy that says these additions are unacceptable, I'm inclined to leave them as is for the sake of helping others in the search for information. While I've edited like this for eight years without an issue, I'll wait to see what both WT:TV and WT:MOSTV have to say.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 17:30, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

The good news is that someone took the time to source the summaries. In this case, it can go either way. Eventually we will add our own extensive summaries.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 18:23, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

US viewers (millions)

Why do we need the "US viewers (millions)" part on the Episode list template? AT:DL is coming to a streaming service, not a TV channel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pierce2000 (talk • contribs) 02:39, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Season vs. New Show

Opening up a discussion here. Personally, I feel like considering this a "spin-off" or new series rather than a "season of specials" (e.g., something like this) is a little off. Canonically, it's the same cast, many of the same writers, and the same showrunner. It was produced by the same studio, etc. It reminds me of the many "Christmas specials" or "reunions" that often air x years after a show has officially wrapped. That said, Steven Universe Future has its own page as a series. IDK.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 16:04, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Repeated deletion of content by User:Skadilane

Skadilane has repeatedly deleted content about Y5 being nonbinary from the article, and has claimed that they are Aria Clemens (the crew member cited in the passage). This raises not only questions about WP:COI, but also about whether or not this user is impersonating said crew member, as they have provided no compelling proof of their identity. The account was only created a few days ago, and so far their only edits have been on this page, so I'm also wondering about WP:SPA concerns.

Can anybody try to make sense of this situation? The Grand Delusion^{(Send a message)} 05:11, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Its very strange. I thought they meant that Aria told them to delete the content, but I have found no source for that either, and that raises its own concerns. Like you, I am also very concerned about it.--Historyday01 (talk) 05:13, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Well, I'll try to DM her later on my Twitter account and see what's up. It still doesn't seem right to remove that some saw Y5 as non-binary. Anyway, I'll update this page after that. I half-believe it is her, but on the other hand, I'm not sure.Historyday01 (talk) 05:26, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Per this diff: I messaged them on Twitter explaining how to get to this Talk page, so probably they will show up here and we can discuss it. { $\mathbb {JPG}$ } 05:28, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Update: I messaged them and they've responded to me on Twitter from that account -- I can provide screenshots if necessary. { $\mathbb {JPG}$ } 05:28, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, guys! My original tweet was just in reference to the fact that the ATDL crew has 5 people on it who changed their names (all for various reasons) and how special that character decision was for us. People took it out of context to mean I was confirming Y5 as non-binary. I really appreciate you all helping me out here and removing my quote!--Aria (Skadilane)

Aw, dang. I guess people just jumped on it and said it was a confirmation, but that is cool anyway I guess. I'll sadly and sullenly have to delete that entry for Y5 on List of animated series with LGBTQ characters page, the List of fictional non-binary characters page, and reword the stuff on the History of LGBTQ characters in animated series: 2020s page too. Actually, maybe I don't have to delete the entry for Y5, I could just reword it... hmm Historyday01 (talk) 05:40, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

If I may, I would say that "Y5 discovering herself" is a very general case, it's not that adequate to say it's because that she's considered a LGBTQ. Therefore, I didn't translate that part into Chinese, because I really doubt the necessity of mentioning that in a LGBTQ paragraph. - George6VI (talk) 01:56, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

What do you think, @Gen. Quon:? I don't think this section is that necessary to be added, so I merged it to the part of Y5, like this revision that is currently reverted. - George6VI (talk) 04:52, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

I still believe that the section makes sense in this article and should be kept. I don't mind most of the stuff about Y5 to be added to the description of the character, but, I think there is enough to have a section about LGBTQ representation in the special as a whole, especially since the recent episode had a scene with Tree Trunks and all her lovers (some have said she is polyamorous). Historyday01 (talk) 13:14, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Historyday01 here. I think a few sentences on an aspect of these specials that has received significant press attention is warranted. That said, personally I think it should be moved to the "Broadcast and reception" section.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:05, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Glad to hear that. I'm willing to have it be moved, there, sure. I wouldn't have an issue with that. Historyday01 (talk) 15:34, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Well, I can help to move, yet I'm not sure if my way is good to you. I consider to move Y5's part to the character, and "Obsidian"'s part and "Main article: Cartoon Network and LGBT representation § Adventure Time: Distant Lands" to the episode reception. - George6VI (talk) 00:33, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

GeorgeGVI, I mean, I think the whole section should stay intact, but moved to the "Broadcast and reception" section. The part about Y5 is only one line (it used to be more), with the rest already there, and the Obsidian reception already has a lot. I'll move it shortly, then add in two more reviews I found for the recent special, one in Polygon and another in IndieWire... neither seems to mention Tree Trunks and her lovers (as I remember seeing mentioned in some Twitter thread with spoilers) though, except in passing, but hopefully someone mentions that in a review. And I'll probably have to trim down the section on the Cartoon Network and LGBT representation page for Distant Lands at some point, but that's a work in progress. Historyday01 (talk) 03:12, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Questions from George6VI

(I often have some trivial questions about the article from time to time, so I just sort them into a section instead of opening a new one.) - George6VI (talk) 08:49, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Side characters description

There are many things to describe characters in "BMO," but there is basically none for those in "Obsidian." I think there should be a consistent format for all of these episodes' side characters. - George6VI (talk) 01:58, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

I agree; folks just haven't gotten around to it yet.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:59, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Miki Brewster

Is Miki Brewster really the supervising director of all four episodes? I only saw her name in the credits of "BMO" but not that in another two episodes so far, or did I miss anything? Because I am not so sure about Miki Brewster's role in the show and I don't see any source about this; besides, how come that she, a person that we probably didn't hear of before, becomes the superior of Adam Muto? - George6VI (talk) 17:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Miki is credited in the "Obsidian" intro at 0:49 and in the "Together Again" intro card alongside Sandra Lee (can't find a link). Supervising director is not above showrunner/EP; they're simply the contact point for the storyboarders who help them move from outline to storyboard.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 19:50, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Okay, now I found those in "Obsidian" and "Together Again." Nevertheless, I take it with a grain of salt about the one in "Wizard City", because I don't think it is confirmed yet. -George6VI (talk) 04:59, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Oh, good catch; that shouldn't be there.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 20:39, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Life

In "Together Again," Corinne Kempa is listed in the credits. Life only appeared in Season 6 shorts, and the article said she was voiced by Hynden Walch. I can watch AT and Distant Lands on HBO Go, where credits are fully listed in respective episodes, but is there a site for such shorts? The ones uploaded by CN in YouTube don't seem to credit Hynden Walch, and I don't know what source can be used here. - George6VI (talk) 08:49, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't know if there was ever a credit list that was including with the shorts themselves; I think that info may have been released by Adam Muto via Twitter. Either way, they switched voice actors. Hynden provided the voice in "The Gift that Keeps on Reaping," whereas Corinne Kempa provided it here.-Gen. Quon (Talk) 17:17, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

The thing is, I can't just say "Kempa replaces Hynden Walch as the voice" without citing anything, especially the part of Hynden Walch. For other casts in regular episodes, I can just add this at the beginning of the section: "The characters and their voice actors include:" and links of AT and Distant Lands (in HBO Max etc.) to fix the problem, but it doesn't actually work for shorts. I am not sure if such info is mentioned in DVD release's commentary, cast, cover or something, but I can't find any useful material to "prove" that exact statement anyway (if not counting AT wiki from Fandom, or other sites Wikipedia counts as unreliable). - George6VI (talk) 00:22, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Pendleton Ward

I noticed that the infobox has changed, and in it, Pen Ward is listed as the creator. Does that still stand? I mean, Pen is the creator of Adventure Time, but now he may have a minor role of the show now, and if there is a creator of Distant Lands, I think that should be Adam Muto, but I am not so sure about that. - George6VI (talk) 02:47, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Good question. It seems that DL was developed by Adam, with help from Hanna K. and Jack Pendarvis. I don't think Pen was really that involved. Is there a 'based off' parameter we could use for Pen instead?--Gen. Quon (Talk) 17:29, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Update: I added in the "based_on" and "developer" fields. I think that'll take care of the issue.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 17:33, 4 September 2021 (UTC)