Talk:Adamo Didur

Merge with Adam Didur

This is a lovely example of how 2 different groups of editors can work on what turns out to be an article on the same subject, but come up with rather different outcomes.

There are a number of facts and photos that appear in one article but not the other, and vice-versa. That in itself is OK; it means they can all be added into the melting pot, for a more comprehensive final outcome.

But there are some that are quite contradictory, and they will need to be ironed out before the merge can be done. Apart from the name itself, Adamo vs. Adam, there are the following clashes:

Adamo Didur	Adam Didur
Born 24 December 1874	Born 24 February 1874
Born in Sanok	Born in Wola Sękowa
In 1894, he made his operatic debut in Rio de Janeiro	He began his opera career in 1894, when he debuted as Fader Guardiano in Verdi's La forza del destino in Pinerolo, Torino
Didur made his Metropolitan Opera debut on November 14, 1908, singing Mephistopheles in Charles Gounod's Faust	In 1908 he debuted in the title role of Boito's Mefistofeles at the Manhattan Opera in New York, and later in the season opening of the Metropolitan in Verdi's Aida,

Over to you. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 10:34, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I have started to source the article. I had merged to the one that didn't have any obvious errors, the other article had obvious ones based on the entries he has in encyclopedias. His birthday as self reported was in 1873, not 1874, but if we find alternatives in reliable sources we should list them in the footnotes and explain why one is stronger or weaker as a source. Check out an article I am researching Harry_Elionsky for a more difficult problem you can help with. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 15:26, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

repertoire

I'm copying here the list of Didur's roles from the old Adam Didur page. Should it be edited and included in this article?

Famous roles

• Méphistophélès in Faust by Gounod
• Boris in Boris Godunov by Mussorgskij
• Marcel in Les Huguenots by Meyerbeer
• Ramfis in Aida by Verdi
• Colline in La Bohème by Puccini
• Mefistofele in Mefistofele by Boito
• Coppélius in Les Contes d’Hoffmann by Offenbach
• Sparafucile in Rigoletto by Verdi
• Galitskij in Prins Igor by Borodin
• Leporello in Don Giovanni by Borodin
• Archibaldo in L’Amore dei tre re by Montemezzi
• Filippo II in Don Carlo by Verdi
• Don Basilio in Il barbiere di Siviglia by Rossini
• Figaro in Le nozze di Figaro by Mozart
• Tomskij in Spardame by Tsjajkovskij
• Kezal in Svatební košile by Dvořák
• Tonio in I pagliacci by Leoncavallo
• Klingsor in Parsifal by Wagner
• Oberthal in Le prophète by Meyerbeer
• Don Alfonso in Così fan tutte by Mozart
• Mustafà in L’Italiana in Algeri by Rossini
• Alvise Badoero in La Gioconda by Ponchielli
• Scarpia in Tosca by Puccini
• Billy Jackrabbit in La Fanciulla del West by Puccini
• Talpa in Il Tabarro by Puccini
• Simone in Gianni Schicchi by Puccini
• Trehogger in Königskinder by Humperdinck
• Il Cieco in Iris by Mascagni
• Franz in Lodoletta by Mascagni
• Gremin in Eugene Onegin by Tsjajkovskij
• Pistol in Falstaff by Verdi
• Giovanni Filippo Palm in Germania by Franchetti
• Hu-Tsin in L’Oracolo by Leoni

Markhh (talk) 06:00, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

@Markhh: I'd say yes, please go ahead and move it there. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:57, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Name and year of birth

Shouldn't this be under Adam Didur? Adamo is not a Polish name; I think it is pretty safe to say his real name was Adam, not Adamo. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:55, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

@Piotrus: You are correct. He is better known outside Poland as "Adamo" but his actual name is "Adam." Some references list him as Adam [Adamo] Didur, which might be the best solution for the main text (while having his actual name "Adam Didur" for the article heading) because it gives his actual, Polish name, but also its artistic variation (in brackets) by which he is better known in the West. There are a couple of other discrepancies about Didur: 1. his birth date (1873 or 1874?) and 2. his first operatic debut: some sources say it was in Pinerolo, Italy, while others list his tour in Rio de Janeiro-- both took place in 1894, so the year is not an issue. I think Polish sources would give the most reliable answers here, because it's related to his early life before taking on the major career in Europe and US (esp. Met Opera).Wikiuserthea (talk) 11:28, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

@Piotrus: I added the reference to his Italianized name in the text. I also expanded the article with the milestones in his biography (all major debuts in Europe and elsewhere, additional premieres at the Met, etc.), expanded the discussion of his 'Legacy', added the 'Discography' section and additional references for 'Further Reading'. Also made a few corrections. I am mentioning all these here because I forgot to do it in the 'Edit summary'. Still hope someone can help to sort out the correct year of his birth (1873 or 1874). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiuserthea (talk • contribs) 20:41, May 4, 2015‎ (UTC)

@Wikiuserthea:I think my preferred solution at this time would be move this to Adam Didur, and have the lead start with Adam Didur or Adamo Didur[footnote explaining where Adamo comes from if we can find it, which I believe you did, and that Adam was his given, Polish name). Regarding date of birth, we should look into what the sources say:

1873: Google Books for "Adam Didur" 1873: 62, for "Adam Didur" 1874: 110

"Adam Didur. Twórca". Culture.pl. Retrieved 5 May 2015.

"Didur Adam - WIEM, darmowa encyklopedia". portalwiedzy.onet.pl. Retrieved 5 May 2015.

1874: Google Books for "Adam Didur" 1874: 110; for "Adamo Didur" 1874: 180

Stanley S. Sokol; Sharon F. Mrotek Kissane; Alfred L. Abramowicz (1992). The Polish Biographical Dictionary: Profiles of Nearly 900 Poles who Have Made Lasting Contributions to World Civilization. Bolchazy-Carducci Publishers. p. 95. ISBN 978-0-86516-245-7.

"Didur Adam - Encyklopedia PWN - źródło wiarygodnej i rzetelnej wiedzy". encyklopedia.pwn.pl. Retrieved 5 May 2015.

Ouch: four reliable sources, and no agreement: either 24 December 1873 or 1874. I think we should have a footnote explaining sources are not in agreement, pending finding of any discussion by a scholar of what is the correct date. When I go to Poland in July I can check what is his bio (if any) in the Polski Slownik Biograficzny. For infobox and other metadata, I guess we can go with 1874 based on the pure numbers...? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:58, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

@Piotrus:I agree about Adam to be the lead. It's still good to explain 'Adamo' in the main text because that's how he is known outside Poland. I read that this Italianized name already started to be used on his first tour abroad to South America. Yes, the year of his birth is best solved by looking at the Polish sources. He entered "1873" on his registration card in 1918 (as someone posted it on his page), but I don't know why most sources during his lifetime still listed 1874. Meanwhile, I agree that the footnote about the disagreement among the sources should do it.Wikiuserthea (talk) 05:51, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, 1874 is probably the best for now with the footnote explaining 1873 as an alternative year (until the Polish sources shed more light on it).Wikiuserthea (talk) 05:57, 5 May 2015 (UTC)