Talk:Academic dress of Durham University

Reason for no mortarboards

FYI

 – Section heading added by Undead Shambles (talk) 05:20, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

So far as I can recall there's a reason Durham doesn't wear mortarboards. Isn't it that it was a protest by the all-male students that women were to be allowed that they threw their hats in to the Wear? If anyone can verify this it would make a nice addition to the piece. --PaulWicks 22:03, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

This is one of those apocryphal urban myths. The same story (aside from being the river Wear) is told at St Andrews and elsewhere. --Daryl lloyd 21:27, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

20 years ago I asked the then manager of Gray & Son (University Robemakers) - an eccentric old retainer - the reason for mortarboards no longer being mandatory at Congregation (graduation). He claimed that in the '60s their entire stock succumbed to a lice infestation and had to be burnt. He may or may not have had his tongue in his cheek...Barabbas1312 (talk) 21:03, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Subfusc

I don't recall there being any official subfusc at Durham, nor can I find any references to it in the AD regulations. This should either be referenced, clarified (if it is an unofficial or college-specific practice, for instance) or removed. --Robminchin 16:56, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I've left this for almost four months without anything being added in the way of a reference or a clarification, so I have now deleted the sentance on subfusc.--Robminchin 02:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

In the early 20th century Durham graduands wore evening dress (either black tie or white tie) under their gowns at Congregation, as can be seen in pre-war photos; but I'm not sure that this was ever formally stipulated.Barabbas1312 (talk) 21:03, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Move

Whoopse I messed up the redirect. The official name of the university is Durham University so the name of the article should reflect that, i.e. it should be Academic dress of Durham University. To fix things the current redirect Academic dress of Durham University, should be removed and this page moved there. --Salix alba (talk) 12:03, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I suppose that makes sense given that the University's entry is now under Durham University, although as pointed out in that article, 'University of Durham' remains its official & legal name. Nige 20:25, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

At the time of moving the article I was under the impresion that it was a complete name change of the university, rather than just a branding name. I don't have a strong opinion on the name of the article. In any case Academic dress of the University of Durham redirects here. --Salix alba (talk) 20:30, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, it is simply a branding rename. The reason for this being that for the university to change its official name, it would require an Act of Parliament! I would argue that this entry should be Academic dress of the University of Durham with Academic Dress of Durham University pointing to there (and I would also argue that the university's main entre should be back to University of Durham. However, I assume this discussion has already taken place over there and this change to Durham University made for some good reason. Daryl lloyd 15:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

If you wish to move the article I won't object. There are good reasons for both names, one reflects the name of the main page and its prefered branding, the other might be more technically correct. --Salix alba (talk) 21:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Images

The university produces a leaflet at graduation with images of all the different gowns. If someone is currently a student there they could contact registry and ask their permission to upload the images??? --PaulWicks 09:42, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

or even a student with a photo of them and friends in gowns... I'm on uni computers now ut sure ive got some at home... Robdurbar 09:59, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I've got some of those but it would only be for BA and BSc. The leaflet has a comprehensive list including PhD, Law, etc. in a consistent format which might be more appropriate.--PaulWicks 12:16, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Undergraduate gowns

I'm deeply suspicious of the suggestion that the Hild-Bede gown is a hangover from the days before the College became a constituent college of the University. When I was a student at Durham in the sixties we had a guy from Bede (pre-amalgamation) in my tutorial group and he wore a bog-standard undergraduate gown of the normal Durham pattern.

My guess is that when gowns ceased to be compulsory to lectures, Hild-Bede bought a load of Oxford commoner-style gowns for their freshers to wear at matriculation because they were reasonably cheap, tough and easy to store from one matric to the next. Given that the amalgamated College had started as two teacher training establishments, there was no great tradition of gown wearing anyway. That said, I rather approve of Hild-Bede doing it differently from everyone else.Kranf 19:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

The 1936 University regulations offer the following alternative gown for undergraduates: '...a short sleeveless gown (regulation pattern) of dark blue purple cord, with square yoke' - implying that a version of the oxford undergraduate gown was indeed at one time worn in Durham by some - could this be the origin of the idea that Hild/Bede students had something distinctive? Barabbas1312 (talk) 23:02, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Further elucidation comes from Charles Whiting's (1932) book The University of Durham which states (p141) that the University had initially suggested an Oxford-style undergraduate gown, but that the undergraduates had called for a fuller garment - which led to the introduction of the gown as worn today. He also says that there had 'recently' (ie late 1920s, early 30s?) been a move to make Durham the 'purple University' in terms of the colour of its undergraduate gowns (and in emulation of the scarlet of St Andrews) - however the gowns procured were short and so proved unpopular - which explains the above-mentioned (and short-lived) 'alternative' undergraduate gown of the University Regulations. (But so far as Hild/Bede is concerned, I concur with Kranf's explanation.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Barabbas1312 (talk • contribs) 18:27, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I was a Bede man in the early 70s. The 'certificate' students did not wear any gowns, which is why gowns were not worn at Formal Dinners. Us 'university' students wore the standard Arts gown for matriculation, lectures, seminars, tutorials and exams. As far as I can recall, the scientists wore the same gown as the artists. We each had to buy our own gown from Gray's in Saddler Street. I never heard of the College having a special gown until I read this article and I doubt it is true.

Added by Duncan Robinson, 3 February 2018. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.20.41.19 (talk) 10:57, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Newcastle

It's my understanding that when Newcastle went it alone, the dress for all the degrees that were only available at King's College was transferred over. Does anyone know enough to add a brief section outlining the degrees that are still using the Durham scheme, and indeed may still be worn by pre 1963 Durham graduates? Timrollpickering (talk) 11:45, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I have added relevant details to the main page. (In addition to the degrees that were 'transferred' (which I indicate under the heading 'Degrees no longer awarded') it should be noted that the academic dress of other Newcastle degrees is in some instances very similar to that of their Durham equivalent; eg Newcastle Doctors of Civil Law can be distinguished from their Durham counterparts only by the colour of the tuft on their hat). Barabbas1312 (talk) 22:57, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Theological colleges

I'm somewhat thrown by the suggestion that Chad's is a theological college. It's still independent of the University and it certainly was a theological college until the early 70s - but it hasn't been since then. Could whoever wrote that bit please edit it? Kranf (talk) 22:31, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Update: since no-one got round to editing this bit, I've done it myself. As well as revising the reference to Chad's as a theological college, I've updated the information on the College hood. Mine is of the old pattern from pre-2006: the new one has been in use since about 2007.Kranf (talk) 13:10, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Shape of Bachelors' Hoods

I would contest the claim that certain Bachelors' hoods are of a different shape to others. What I believe happened is that ten or so years ago the University robemakers changed their means of manufacture (discontinuing in-house production?). Whoever now manufactures Durham and Newcastle hoods makes them to a noticeably different design (I suspect to save on cloth): rather than the cape being truly semi-circular, it is now made square in shape, with only the corners rounded off. This is true for all recently-produced hoods (BA & BSc included); but because the robemakers still hold and hire out a large stock of older hoods (of the correct shape) particularly for the more long-established degrees (BA, BSc, BPhil etc), the impression is given that these hoods are of an intentionally different design - rather than the difference being down to the vagaries of the manufacturer. I therefore suggest deleting the sentence implying an 'official' difference in shape. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Barabbas1312 (talk • contribs) 16:40, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

The latest (third) edition of Shaw's Academical Dress of Great Britain and Ireland (publication imminent) and the Groves classification scheme list three different full-shaped hoods in use at Durham: the doctors' hood [f4] (also used for the BD), the BA hood [f6] and the BSc hood [f7] (also used for most other bachelors' degrees, including the BPhil). This certainly seems to be the state of things at present, although I don't personally know when the shapes of the various hoods diverged, and it may indeed be due to differences in pattern used by different robemakers. The BA hood (but with the liripipe removed) was apparently used for the long-defunct Licence in Theology (LTh, abolished 1946). -- Nicholas Jackson (talk) 00:46, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

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