Talk:Abiy Ahmed/Archive 1

Archive 1

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2018

Please correct the statement where it says, MBA from Ashland University to MBA from Leadstar College of Management and Leadership in partnership with Ashland. Desta Gemechu (talk) 05:26, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. This is not an endorsement of your requested edit, and any edit you make to this article must still conform to the biographies of living people policy. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:17, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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• JointDeclaration 2018.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 07:21, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

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Various vandalism and false information

The article need otherwise to permanently protected because the date of birth still changes. For some readers, it is not deemed as a good article. It needs a permanent protection in order to avoid further disruption. The Supermind (talk) 08:59, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

There is too many vandalism in the article. It must bemonitored by any uninvolved administrator. The Supermind (talk) 20:46, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2019

Change "Allahu Akbar" back to the original headlines. Someone wrote "Allahu Akbar" in most of the headlines in the article, probably in mocking of Abiy Ahmed's last name and Muslim father. 128.0.73.12 (talk) 10:38, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

 Already done NiciVampireHeart 11:24, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

The prime minister position place

In the article "List of heads of government of Ethiopia", the Prime Minister rulership started in 1942, with position of Makonnen Endelkachew. He is the first Prime Minister of Ethiopia. By count (excluding acting Prime Minister) the position reached up to 10th. I also believe that he is the fourth prime minister of Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia that is formed in 1995. The Supermind (talk) 09:23, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

• Abiy Ahmed and Esayas Afeworki.jpg
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• PM Abiy Ahmed with Presidfent Guelleh of Djibouti.jpg

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Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2020

Abiy Ahmed was elicited in 2018 he has killed many Oromos in the past 2 years. Oromos is the biggest ethnic group in Ethiopia. There was one story one of Abiy Ahmed soldiers shot and killed a Oromo citizen and left the body the for the nearby animals to eat,just cause was Oromo. And the worst thing Abiy Ahmed did was kill the best musician,the one person who is brave enough to speak out about what Abiy Ahmed is doing. Huchalu Hundessa.It was the middle of the night and he dropped of his sister in law at her home and came back and was shot outside his own home. The woman who planned the assassination with a few other people. A few minutes later the woman who planned the assassination called the ambulance and said "someone" shot him. Later pronounced dead at the hospital. Those two people who i wrote about are just two out of 200. This is what Abiy Ahmed has been doing so far the past 2 years. 2600:6C44:E80:6F:684D:1B24:961:B10A (talk) 03:08, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Also, next time also provide WP:RELIABLE sources for your claims and requests ~ Amkgp 💬 11:54, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2020

Abiy Ahmed was born in the town of Beshasha, located near Agaro, Oromia.[7][8][9][10] His deceased father, Ahmed Ali, was a Muslim Oromo[11] (and had four wives[12]), while his deceased mother, Tezeta Wolde,[13] was an Orthodox[14] Christian Oromo.[15][16] Bdesdes (talk) 16:31, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Not what the sources say. – Thjarkur (talk) 16:45, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2021

96.250.2.226 (talk) 01:40, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DanCherek (talk) 02:12, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Date of Birth

The consensus is to specify 1976 as the year of birth. There is no consensus on what to specify as the date of birth.

Cunard (talk) 04:25, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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There seems to be an endless series of edits to his date of birth. The, admittedly limited sources I can find all appear to agree on 1976 however

• https://www.journalducameroun.com/en/ethiopia-dr-abiy-ahmed-tipped-to-become-next-pm/

• https://www.abyssiniadaily.net/ethiopia-documentary-on-dr-abiy-ahmed_548e04bd4.html

Heliotom (talk) 13:36, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

More sources for 1976, including one from Zena365, contradicting 1975 DoB

• http://www.hahudaily.com/hahuvids/watch.php?vid=502941650

• http://www.zena365.com/watch.php?vid=cc2705098

• http://amharic.sodere.com/2018/02/19/dr-abiy-ahmed-more-likely-to-become-the-next-ethiopian-prime-minister/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heliotom (talk • contribs) 07:09, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes. There are lots of links pointing to 1976, but most of them were written based on the Wiki article. I have credible (yet unpublished) documents citing 1975 as the correct DoB and that he is 42 years old, not 41. Allow me to make the change. Odaw (talk) 09:27, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

unpublished documents won't fly. See WP:NOR — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heliotom (talk • contribs) 10:14, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

There is disagreement over the DoB of the subject. The majority of sources seem to point to 1976, but may themselves be based on the wikipedia article, so there's potentially a feedback loop here. The article's original creator proposes a 1975 date but without reliable source. There was significant edit warring and disruptive editing/vandalism early in this article's history that is potentially the source of the confusion.Heliotom (talk) 10:29, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

• 1976(Summoned by bot) unsure is unpublished docs are OR as we don't know what they are. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 15:11, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
• Probably 1976, but definitely not 1975 based on current sourcing. It's not clear to me, based on what I see in the sources, why Odaw is asserting that they are all themselves based on the Wikipedia article--other than some similarities in content for some. And unless I'm missing something, I don't see enough similarity across those articles (and our own) to establish a presumption that we are the source-point for all of their facts. If Odaw can assert certitude only because they say they have their own primary sources in hand is, that is of course textbook WP:Original research. So even if we were to be convinced that we had a WP:CIRCULAR situation here, we would not use 1975 based on claims about documents alleged to have been procured by one of our editors and we would have to default to providing no exact age or date of birth. Less than ideal for an article on a soon-to-be head of state, of course, but there would be no other solution remaining to us under policy, in those circumstances. Snow ^{let's rap} 05:05, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
• 1976 (summoned) based on published source. If it isn't right, some sources will pop eventually and we can change it then. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:54, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
• 1976. Some sources say, that he is 42 years old (maybe a birth date in January 1976?) but nobody questions 1976. I also found an old and independent biography from the time before his rise to power (WP:CIRCULAR not possible in that case) and that source also says 1976. The exact birthday in this old source, however, is not the 15 August but 23 May. So, 1976 seems to be set but the exact date is not. --Metrancya (talk) 08:34, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

More birth date sources

These three sources: [1], [2], [3], state that he was born on august 15, 1976. M.Bitton (talk) 23:43, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Title change

I am being bold and moving the article to Abiy Ahmed, as this appears to be the WP:COMMONNAME, as can be evidenced by a broad array of international and Ethiopian sources:

• BBC News
• Reuters
• AP
• Deutsche Welle
• Al Jazeera
• Foreign Policy
• Borkena.com
• OPride.com

Being bold is necessary as Wikipedia's choice of language can influence discussion elsewhere and we should be proactive in avoiding distortions in our age of misinformation and fake news. --Varavour (talk) 16:50, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Proposed Grammatical Edit

The middle paragraph of the Political Career section says he mediated "a new alliance between Oromo and the Amhara groups, both making up two-thirds of the 100 million Ethiopian population." Am I reading this wrong or does the current grammar read as if both ethnic groups make up 2/3rds of the Ethiopian population? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.246.255.164 (talk) 01:41, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

I've changed that part now. BushelCandle (talk) 09:11, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Suggested NEW section addition "Postponement of the May 2020 general election"

I suggest the addition of a news section called about the "Postponement of the May 2020 general election". The regular May 2020 election was postponed several times, where the first was to August 2020. This was before COVID-19, then at last it was postponed due to COVID-19. Some references for this:-

• https://www.france24.com/en/20200115-abiy-ahmed-ethiopia-elections

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 (talk • contribs) 02:30, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Suggested NEW section addition "Political prisoners"

I suggest the addition of a news section called "Political prisoners", based on the following references and more:-

• https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/01/ethiopia-authorities-crack-down-on-opposition-supporters-with-mass-arrests/
• https://allafrica.com/stories/202007310160.html
• https://www.thereporterethiopia.com/article/oromia-police-arrest-lidetu-ayalew
• https://unpo.org/article/22009
• https://addisstandard.com/confirmed-defense-minister-lemma-megerssa-under-house-arrest/
• https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/04/ethiopia-release-detained-journalists-and-opposition-politicians-immediately/
• https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/03/ethiopia-police-must-account-for-missing-oromo-opposition-leader/
• https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/02/ethiopia-vendor-killed-musician-injured-after-police-attack-opposition-supporters-in-oromia/

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 (talk • contribs) 06:32, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Section rename

@Memelord0: regarding this edit, would it better for the section to be renamed "Criticism"?VR _talk 14:53, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

@Vice regent: I generally don't prefer to have a criticism or controversy section per wp:CRITS, but I agree that the section -although it's mainly about his political categorization and positions- has a negative tone and could be considered criticism, so maybe we could expand the section to make it more comprehensive? or merge it with another section? Mohamed^Talk 19:43, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

@محمد عصام:, @Memelord0:, you're right. Sorry I didn't consider that.VR _talk 14:36, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Abiy Ahmed

For your information at this time from November 2020 Abiy Ahmed has made Tigray people suffer. Thousands of children and Adults dying of diarrhea. There is plenty more to say that cannot speak of. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.88.223.119 (talk) 15:04, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2021

I would like to edit this and add information on it thanks. Kidusone (talk) 18:54, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:01, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 June 2021

Change "Howeverver, significant part of the international community considered it undeserved and raised a quesion of his Nobel Peace Prize ought to be revoked" to "However, a significant part of the international community considered it undeserved and questioned whether his Nobel Peace Prize ought to be revoked" Alm0229 (talk) 10:16, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done   melecie   t 10:37, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 August 2021

Request to edit his page because of more information coming in. TRUTHINCommons (talk) 01:53, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. —Sirdog9002 (talk) 01:59, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Section on the ethnic unrest in Ethiopia

Recently, Truth gatekeeper has made a series of sweeping POV edits to the article based on the treatment of the Tigray (people) minority. He cites a litany of sources, but the reliable sources describe two things: ethnic violence targeting the Gedeo people and the dismissal and arrest of Tigrayan officials. Both of these developments warrant coverage in the article, but they must be covered in a matter that conforms with the WP:BLP and WP:NPOV policies. I've added a section about the violence against Gedeos, but the Tigray issue is more complex, as many of the dismissed officials are related to Ethiopia's military-industrial complex. This appears to be a power struggle, as many of these individuals were part of the previous government which used the Tigray dominated police and military to crackdown on protesters . SWL36 (talk) 18:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello SWL36,

Thank you for your comment, but please read the Talk on my page before saying I made sweeping POV edits, I have explained it there. But you made a POV on your above section yourself:- Don't you mean "which for political purpose opposition parties say is a Tigray dominated police and military" ?

Furthermore, if don't want to be intentionally POV, the issue with Tigrayans is much more than the made up accusations made on the Ethiopia's military-industrial complex (to selectively target Tigrayan members of the military as it happened afterwards). The issue with Tigryan now is more about the unconstitutional commission (which undermines the 1975-1991 armed struggle of Tigrayan people for self determination and for the equality of all ethnic groups in present-day Ethiopia).

Furthermore:-

• Abiy Ahmed Ali also started systematically persecuting Ethiopian Tigrayans, after assuming office in April 2018. From November 25 - December 9, 2018, Tigrayans held massive rallies (against Abiy Ahmed Ali) in 10 of the major cities/towns of Tigray region saying "respect the Ethiopian constitution". One of their main slogan from their rallies was "stop ethnic profiling Tigrayans". Abiy has also started building statues to commemorate former persecutors of Tigrayan ethnic people, like Haile Selassie. One of the reasons why Abiy is systematically persecuting Tigrayans is so he can get the support of Amhara extremists & former Derg members/supporters.

• Abiy Ahmed Ali says he wants even more free-press in Ethiopia than there has already existed, so on 2019 he invited back exiled far-right extremist medias like ESAT-TV (which is a media that called for genocide of all Ethiopian Tigrayan ethnic people on 2016).

In addition to all these, please read the fear of Tigrayans of Abiy Ahmed's plan for them, on my Talk page.

Kind regards, Truth gatekeeper (talk) 23:43, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

The point about the Tigrayan domination of these institutions comes from the Reuters ("Nobody will Kneel") source that you link to:

"Although the Tigrayans who inhabit these craggy hills are only a small minority in a country of more than 100 million, they have dominated its power structures since 1991 when the Ethiopian People’s Revolutionary Democratic Front (EPRDF) drove a Marxist military regime from power."

"This [the dismissal of some Tigrayan officials] is popular with many Ethiopians who resented Tigrayan domination of institutions such as the federal police, which violently repressed the protests."

Other editors have reverted your additions and pointed out that they violate WP:NPOV. Also, you need to provide reliable sources WP:RS to back up any claims that you make, as the wall of text you posted on your talk page contains wild claims that are absolutely not sourced, such as:

" Following these rhetorics -and ethnic-based hate messages by former Derg members-, over 70,000 Tigrayans have been barbarically killed or displaced in Ethiopia, where the majority of these Tigrayan victims were in Amhara Region."

You are clearly here to right great wrongs (WP:RGW), a disposition that is likely to get you quickly topic banned from this area. You should quickly familiarize yourself with WP's policies and take them to heart before continuing your edit campaign. SWL36 (talk) 00:27, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

SWL36 is giving good advice here, Truth gatekeeper.

This is not a question of censorship or a whitewash but of complying with our long established policies - and especially with regard to our policies with regards to biographies of living persons which must be beyond reproach when it comes to adequate sourcing.

Baby vs. Bathwater Annotated

I would also recommend editing in smaller sessions so that editors can carefully assess changes made rather than feeling that their eyes are glazing over as they try to assess a myriad of controversial edits and consequently and carelessly reach for the revert button and 'throw the baby out with the bathwater'. --BushelCandle (talk) 08:46, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Sometimes there's not a lot of choice if you want to keep your sanity. Doug Weller talk 09:08, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

References

Suggested improvements to the "Transparency" section

Going to add the below paragraph to the "Transparency" sections, feel free to improve it. (Furthermore, I don't think "Transparency" section should be under "Domestic policy", or should it?). Hi @Materialscientist:, is it okay if I add the below? (Thought I ask you since you are the last editing Admin of on page.) Loves Woolf1882 (talk) 19:29, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

According to NGOs like Committee to Protect Journalists and Amnesty International, Abiy's government has since mid 2019 been arresting Ethiopian journalists and closing media outlets (except for ESAT-TV). From the international media outlets, his government has suspended the press license of Reuters's correspondent, and they have issued a warning letter to the correspondents of both BBC and Deutsche Welle for what the government described as "violation of the rules of media broadcasting".

References

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 (talk • contribs) 05:28, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Suggested addition to the "Internet shutdowns" section

Wanted to add the below line to the "Internet shutdowns" sections, feel free to improve it, before I do so, thank you. Loves Woolf1882 (talk) 12:54, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

His government will the cut internet as and when, "it's neither water nor air" have said Abiy.

References

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 (talk • contribs) 00:28, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

PhD

The information that Abiy's PhD thesis has apparently not been posted publicly in an institutional repository is WP:OR and not especially interesting. The repository where it would be expected to be found seems to be http://etd.aau.edu.et/handle/123456789/19 . However, the Institute for Peace and Security Studies appears to have no theses or other publications deposited there at all. Human sciences, including peace research, seem to generally be a lot less transparent with less open access material than sciences like physics and astronomy. A printed copy is presumably located in the IPSS physical library.

There seems to be an implication in the text currently in the article, about "not publishing" his thesis, that Abiy did not do a real PhD; that counts as WP:OR. Boud (talk) 01:03, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

The more important problem is that so far, we don't have any source saying that he was awarded the PhD degree; and we only have his own paper saying that he "completed" his PhD dissertation in 2017. So I've attributed the date as a self-claim. Boud (talk) 01:17, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Good catch! BushelCandle (talk) 06:33, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

 Done @BushelCandle: Thesis found. Article updated. Boud (talk) 11:41, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Endorsement of rape

Currently we have a section called "Sexual violence in war" which includes a quote by Prime Minister Abiy (a living person) in which he jokes about sexual violence in the battle of Adwa and the Eritrean War in a January 2019 speech. The Tigray war started in November 2020. While Abiy's remarks are appalling it seems like a big accusation to say they constitute his "endorsement" of rape in war. If we are going to say he endorses rape we will need more than just this source.VR _talk 14:16, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

I have removed the content. I'm open to re-adding it if we find more and better sources.VR _talk 14:18, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Head of state statement

The article says: "As the first Ethiopian and the first African head of state, he won the 2019 Nobel Peace Prize…". However, as prime minister, Abiy would be head of government but not head of state (that would be the president of Ethiopia). I did not want to just make a change to "head of government" since I don't know enough about peace prize recipients to know if he'd really be the first African head of government to win it, and just removing it also felt wrong. I'm not an expert Wikipedia editor, just a regular user, and I've had edits reverted previously for reasons I never understood, so I'll leave this comment here and maybe someone with more experience can fix it. It's not a huge deal anyway, I guess. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.52.127.137 (talk) 13:19, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. He's not the first for either of them to win the prize. I've corrected it now. Ue3lman (talk) 00:17, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Nicknames section

Should this really be its own section? Seems like it was added to POV push. 2600:1700:8311:52B0:358B:EF6E:617A:D8D2 (talk) 04:41, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Nobel Prize

I have amended the first paragraph to raise the prominence of the subject's status as a Nobel Prize winner. Abiy's two reasons for world prominence are his prime ministership of Ethiopia and his receipt of a Nobel Peace Prize. I say this with great respect for Ethiopia, but in truth there are hundreds of national political leaders in the world at any one time and they change often. Being a Nobel Prize winner is in most cases far more significant than simply being a national leader. Nobel Prize winners' articles at Wikipedia typically refer to the fact very early in the article. Burying the Nobel Prize below many local details of his internal career in Ethiopia risks obscuring Abiy's primary reason for world prominence. Please do not revert without discussion. If such discussion is necessary, this should inlude inviting the opinion of other contributors to this page. I should perhaps say that I am aware of the cleanup note at the top of this article, and also that the subject is likely to be a matter of controversy within Ethiopia. I have no axe to grind in the latter respect and am simply trying the help improve the article. Emmentalist (talk) 10:55, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

War criminal, accused of genocide missing from the article

Wikipedia should remove the protection template for this war criminal! TegaruFirst (talk) 12:19, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

This is a biography of a living person. If you have sources about criminal charges against Abiy for the war crimes in the Tigray War or other events, then please provide the sources. Accusations by notable people, published in reliable soruces, might also satisfy WP:BLP guidelines, though please read the guidelines first. Then see WP:EDITREQUEST to make an edit request. This encyclopedia is run by volunteers. Boud (talk) 11:53, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Abuchuu koo Abba malaa

Abbichuu koo abba malaa — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.189.29.229 (talk) 15:04, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

For anyone who is confused as to what this is - somebody randomly spouted what seems closely like mysterious gibberish in Oromo going " O dear Abiy, Father of Tricks [Lies/Deceit?] " Ballads2110 (talk) 15:54, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Adem Ahmed Awol

I love you what ever time!! 196.190.61.251 (talk) 14:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

PhD thesis

In case anyone wishes to discuss this edit by me, feel free to do so here. Boud (talk) 17:00, 18 February 2024 (UTC)