Talk:AC Cobra

Shelby Cobra

I've given plenty of time for a rebuttal to my earlier comments. Getting to the point. It's a volatile issue, but any references to an 'AC Cobra' in this thread needs to be changed to 'Shelby Cobra' or 'Shelby American Cobra'. Shelby American is the lawful manufacturer of record for these cars, and this was decided in a court of law when Brian Angliss...then owner of the old Auto Carrier company....signed a document conceding that this was indeed the case. The fact that these cars were both sold and titled with Shelby American VIN numbers, and that a Shelby American facility was the site of final assembly for all of the original Cobras, should have told us this without the need for litigation but the court agreement makes it rock solid. If anybody can find a more compelling reference regarding the manufacturer of record for these cars I'll be glad to entertain it, otherwise I'm going to properly reference the court's findings and change the page.Syr74 (talk) 15:52, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh rubbish. The cars were assembled as rolling vehicles at AC. All Shelby did was fit the engines to the ones shipped to the USA and, for the MkIII, paint them. All the RHD cars and the LHD ones that didn't go to the USA were entirely built by AC. As for the "lawful manufacturer of record," who cares? The car was an AC design built in the AC factory, and none of Shelby's dubious claims can affect that. The manufacturer of a car is not determined by an American court; it's determined by whose factory it came out of, and in the case of the Cobra that was the AC plant at Thames Ditton. The fact that they had a Cobra badge at the front and an AC one at the back should have told us this without need for litigation...--FergusM1970^{Let's play Freckles} 02:54, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

By this logic all current AC Cobras should be called Hightec Cobras as they are the supplier of these vehicles. Infact High tec even fit the engine and gear box unlike Shelby American who completed production of the vehicle and registered the VIN at Shelby American in California. Shelby ordered rolling bodys from AC Cars for their Cobra vehicle 90% of which were marketed and sold in North American under CSX the remainder were sold abroad under CSB . With regards "lawful manufacturer of record" this is indeed the most important point which firmly makes the case for change of page name. Otherwise every single supplier for every single automotive component on the planet can claim a vehicle they supply to is infact their vehicle. This could see the laughable emergence of the Bosch Gullwing or the Fiat 250 GTO or Continental DB9 simply because they provided critical component. in 1993 AC Cars and Shelby released a joint press release making it clear that FIA and SCCA establish Shelby as the manufacturer of record for from 1962 - 1966 this is the final case for the change of name on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CarHistory2020 (talk • contribs) 09:06, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

In an encyclopedic reference your commentary on the issue of legal manufacturer of record is 'who cars'? That is simply an unworkable approach. Further, a good deal of the information you are relaying simply isn't accurate. For example, what AC product is the 427 Cobra a re-engined version of? AC badged cars based upon that chassis design only came after the Shelby American car debuted, not before. The big block car was designed by Ford Motor Company and Shelby American and uses a different frame, suspension, and body shell (sans doors, hood, and trunk) than did the Ace or 289 Cobra. And finally, the manufacturer of a car is absolutely determined by who the legal manufacturer of record is, otherwise we would be discussing the Daimler Steyr Boxster, Cayman, and 300 models. Your argument is blatantly an emotionally driven one backed by no real evidence, and, as mentioned elsewhere, based upon that I am going to revert your edits.Syr74 (talk) 02:50, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

The 427 Cobra is an AC design with computer assistance from Ford, and all the cars were built by AC in the UK. The court case - for which I can't find a reference anywhere - only refers, apparenttly, to the Cobras sold in the USA. In any case I don't believe it's relevant, because the declaration of a local court in California about who is the "legal manufacturer of record" has little to do with who actually manufactured the cars, which I would suggest has a lot more to do with whose factory they were built in than the opinions of some ambulance chaser, and that was AC. I believe that it's you who is driven by emotion here. Before editing the article again to say that Shelby built the cars can you please show some evidence that they were built in California and not Surrey?--FergusM1970^{Let's play Freckles} 09:53, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

A 1963 advertisement for the "A.C. Cobra", from an issue of Autocar here: [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 17:53, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

It should be noted that this is as advertised by Auto Carrier, not by Shelby American. This is an even more interesting part of the story because, according to D. Freidman's book and other sources, Shelby had made a gentleman's agreement with Auto Carrier to use the name of both companies names in print and on the car in Europe, the U.S., and the UK. Initially Shelby complied by labeling American cars as Shelby-AC Cobra, but Auto Carrier did not comply either on the cars they finished or in print, so Shelby retaliated in many ways including removing AC from the badges and the names of smallblock-powered cars in America when new emblems were developed, forcing Auto Carrier to stop applying Cobra badges to small-block powered cars they completed(Shelby American owned the Cobra trademark), and never allowing AC to apply Cobra badges to AC MkIV series cars as well as granting them effectively no big-block powered cars to be sold in the UK (most people don't seem to know that almost every big-block powered car was a Shelby American Cobra finished in California and destined for the American market, not an AC-badged Mk IV). We need to get several editors involved here because, while Auto Carrier is an important part of the story, the term AC Cobra is literally the colloquialism in this case, and not really a legitimate name for this car when referencing actual, professional sources. Syr74 (talk) 20:35, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

By 1962, AC Cars Ltd. had not been called Auto Carriers Ltd. for forty years. All genuine 1962-9 Cobras were built by AC at Thames Ditton. The majority were shipped as rolling chassis, with modified coachbuilt AC Ace bodies, to Shelby American in California, where the engines and drivetrains were installed. These cars had AC's CSX chassis numbers. They were shipped with the 'Shelby AC Cobra' hood and tail badge, but after the first fifty or so Shelby started swopping that for his snakehead badge. Even so, photographs of well-known CSX Cobras at American racetracks in the 1960s show the AC badge in the middle of the steering wheel. UK-market cars had COB numbers and European-market cars had COX numbers. AC installed the engines and drivetrains in these cars themselves by agreement with Ford. Shelby did not own the Cobra name from 1965, having sold it to Ford for $1 so he could get the lucrative licensing deal to put his name on the GT350 Mustang. Shelby's status as 'legal manufacturer of record' was recognised by the FIA and SCCA for racing purposes, but the agreed 1993 press release by Shelby and Angliss does not go further. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=N2OoCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT357&lpg=PT357&dq=carroll+shelby+brian+angliss&source=bl&ots=a4GLVUstz-&sig=ACfU3U38Foazh761p_MLoZUJxT2O_YbjpQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiC3criyujpAhWKilwKHY-WB2c4ChDoATACegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=carroll%20shelby%20brian%20angliss&f=false Shelby had just then got into a spot of bother because he was selling new-build Cobras, with chassis manufactured by a firm called McCluskey, as 1965 originals to command a higher price -- he claimed he'd had the chassis lying around since 1965, which wasn't the case, though the engines were apparently reconditioned 1965 units. These cars are legally replicas, as they were not built by AC. Brian Angliss's Autokraft AC Cobra MkIV of the late Eighties and early Nineties was made under agreement with Ford, which of course owned (and owns) the Cobra name, and was sold through Ford dealers. Angliss had acquired AC during the production run. Khamba Tendal (talk) 16:55, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

To be clear, Carroll Shelby never manufactured a single Cobra except for the short run of early-1990s McCluskey-chassis 427 'continuations', in fact replicas (produced simply to exploit the silly-money resale prices of original AC 427s), which for a time he pretended were genuine 1965 AC cars until legally forced to admit otherwise. Because Cobras were originally marketed as 'Shelby Cobras' in the US (the main market), Americans often imagine that Shelby manufactured them, but he did not. He just dropped the engines in. Nor did he design the revised chassis for the big-block 427. He proposed it, but AC and Ford did the actual job of design and AC did the manufacturing. And the 427 wasn't a very good car anyway. It handled like a shopping trolley on acid and it didn't sell. Its failure to sell was the reason why Shelby was able to assign unregistered chassis numbers to his 1990s 'continuations'. His original idea, to drop the Corvette engine into the Big Healey, would have produced a much better and more useable car than the Cobra (as we know from actual Healey-Chev conversions carried out by individual owners and mechanics in Britain and the US), which would have sold much better, and there was the rub. Neither Chevrolet, nor British Motor Corporation, nor Donald Healey wanted Shelby biting chunks out of their market. They preferred to keep selling stock Corvettes and Austin-Healey 3000s, thank you very much. Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:11, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

To be clear you are ignoring the facts of the matter as outlined in the hyperlink above . Both AC Cars and Shelby released a joint statement saying that Shelby is the Manufacturer of record. Also with regards the facts of the matter AC Cars provided rolling chassis for Cobras to Shelby who completed the vehicles and registered the Vins in California thereby making them the manufacturer of the cars. The design and production of the rolling chassis is not in dispute here. The dispute is related to who Finished, registered and sold the car and that, as is clear in the joint statement, was Shelby American. We cannot call a car by the name of a tier 1 supplier of components it is the Manufacturer of record otherwise everything from that Audi A4 through to the Tesla Roadster would have to be renamed according to the provider of the rolling chassis. A supplier does not make the manufacturer of record. Thus the name of this article and all attribution must be changed to Shelby Cobra or at the least Shelby AC Cobra. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CarHistory2020 (talk • contribs) 09:21, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

With this in mind the name of this article must be changed to present the facts correctly as they have been outlined which is namely that Shelby American is the official manufacturer of record for a vehicle that was called the Shelby Cobra (as the VINs of the vehicles were assigned by the manufacturer of record Shelby American). About 10% of Cobras sold were built directly by AC Cars but this "AC Cobra" should be a sub section of the existing article not the predominant topic as this relates to the world famous North American final assembly/manufactured and registered Shelby Cobra produced by Shelby American. Finally as is outlined on the Shelby American article and confirmed in this statement 348 of the 928+ Shelby Cobras manufactured had zero involvement from AC Cars therefore they are absolutely not an AC Cobra.CarHistory2020 (talk) 09:38, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

References

AC Cobra/Shelby Cobra

For some reliable background information, I recommend: "Shelby Cobra" by Dave Freidman, company photographer for the Shelby works and raceteam from '62 to '65 and "AC/Ford/Shelby Cobra Super Profile" by Rod Grainger. I started with some edits based on these sources. Aburgt 11:11, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

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With this in mind the name of this article must be changed to present the facts correctly as they have been outlined which is namely that Shelby American is the official manufacturer of record for a vehicle that was called the Shelby Cobra (as the VINs of the vehicles were assigned by the manufacturer of record Shelby American). About 10% of Cobras sold were built directly by AC Cars but this "AC Cobra" should be a sub section of the existing article not the predominant topic as this relates to the world famous North American final assembly/manufactured and registered Shelby Cobra produced by Shelby American. Finally as is outlined on the Shelby American article and confirmed in this statement 348 of the 928+ Shelby Cobras manufactured had zero involvement from AC Cars therefore they are absolutely not an AC Cobra.CarHistory2020 (talk) 09:38, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

This article is terribly inaccurate and noticeably biased in many areas. These cars are not an AC anything and are, in fact, Shelby American Cobras. The reasons for this are both simple and a matter of record.

First, as the article itself states a court of law reviewed the evidence and found Shelby American to be the manufacturer of record for the car. Unfortunately, the article incorrectly states that the court found that Shelby American was the manufacturer of record for the 'AC Cobra'. This statement makes no sense on its face since the very purpose of the court decision in question was to decide wether these cars were Shelby automobiles or not. For the statement to be correct it should instead read that the court found the manufacturer of record to be Shelby American acknowledging the fact that these cars were Shelby Cobras.

Arguably this should have been obvious without the intervention of a court of law since every Shelby Cobra ever produced bore a 'CSX' series Shelby VIN number meaning that they were built and sold as a Shelby American product with final assembly taking place in a Shelby American facility. AC never contested this during the original production run and would later lose the only legal contest held regarding the matter as indicated above. It might also be worth mentioning that while the original, small-block powered Cobra is based on a chassis originally designed by, and always manufactured by, Auto Carrier the 427 powered Cobra roadsters manufactured later were designed almost exclusively by Shelby American with the assistance of Ford Motor Company with no serious engineering involvement on the part of AC, athough the British firm did still produce the chassis for these cars.

The above aside, inaccuracies and omissions within the article abound. For example. Why is the history and development of the AC Ace upon which the small-block Cobra is based covered while neither the evolution of the small-block powered cars or the development of the big-block powered cars by Shelby American is mentioned in any meaningful way? The AC Ace deserves a mention here to be sure, but it would seem that a simple refernce with a link to the page for the AC Ace containing the information in question would be more than sufficient and far more effecient. As the article stands it displays obvious bias appearing in fact to be the product of a pro-AC agenda. The lack of information regarding the Cobra itself, particularly those of the big block variety, is so sweeping that it makes this page virtually useless. Need I even mention that weasel words abound?

Another example of inaccuracy is the reference to the 'Turd' indicating that this was the same car Shelby first attempted to fit a big block FE engine into. This is, in fact, incorrect with the 'Turd' and the initial big block mule in question being two seperate cars. I could go on by I don't see the point.

This article needs a complete and immediate revision.

(76.177.76.250 18:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)Syr74)

The "CSX" chassis numbers, as already explained in the article, were a continuation of the A and B series numbers used in the AC Ace. "X" meant "Export." Cobras sold in the UK had "CS" numbers. You are quite simply incorrect on every count. Shelby did not design or build these cars; AC did.--FergusM1970^{Let's play Freckles} 03:14, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Your argument is simply incorrect in almost every respect. Auto Carrier is not, and never has been, the legal manufacturer of record for these cars. Shelby American was and is the legal manufacturer of record as determined in a court of law and, attested to at that time, by Brian Angliss who was the owner of AC Cars Ltd at that time and the (losing) defendant in that case. This simply is not a place for emotionally driven opinion, rather it's supposed to be an encyclopedia. As such I'm reverting your edits which border, very nearly, on vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Syr74 (talk • contribs) 02:43, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Can I have a link to that court case please? In any case the Cobras were built in Surrey, and last time I checked Surrey is outside the jurisdiction of a court in LA, so I don't much care about it. As it happens AC is very much the manufacturer of record for the Cobras, which is why they all have AC chassis numbers and left the factory with AC badges on the boot lid and steering wheel boss. If Shelby manufactured them why did he choose to do it in someone else's factory in another country 6,000 miles away?--FergusM1970^{Let's play Freckles} 09:58, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I believe the comment below is an emotional response, and this webpage is not bogus. To summarize: AC built 80% of the car, while Shelby put an engine in it, sold it, and led its race team. Because of Shelby's marketing, in the US we call the car the "Shelby Cobra", while the rest of the world calls it the "AC cobra" or just plain "Cobra".Mark Eby 16:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Wow, the bias an unabashed bias surrounding this vehicle are amazing. When I have the time i will devote far more of it than I should, or should have to, to fix the slew of problems with this page. Unfortunately given the amazing amount of misinformation and bias on this page keeping it that way may prove an even larger challenge. The really unfortunate thing....people come to this site and read articles like this not understanding that they are only as 'good' as the person/s who typed them. Issues like this need to be fixed as quickly as possible.(Syr74 06:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)SYR74)

This webpage is bogus. AC never made a Cobra. Only Shelby made the Cobra. The Shelby Cobra was based on the coackwork of the AC Ace. Lokisgodhi 13:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't be silly. AC made the car, AC did most of the modifications required in order to fit the V8, Ford built the Engine..what did Shelby do again? oh, he assembled all the components that were supplied by other people.

besides its better for the car's image to think of it as British, everyone knows that European cars are the best in the world, and to call it American, will make people think that it is a poor quality car.Sennen goroshi 04:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Since the car is known as either, would it not make sense to change the title to AC/Shelby Cobra and point out that it is known as both and why it is so. It should be pointed out that AC made the chassis, bodywork, Ford made the engine and drive-train and Shelby fitted them together (with significant modification and engineering effort). Additionally, this article should not take sides in this kind of debate, but instead should highlight its existence and present the facts as they stand and allow the reader to decide for themselves, at least until some overwhelming evidence is found to back up either side. BTW, courts are not the arbitrator of truth and it wouldn't surprise me that if you asked a British court, the answer was different. FWIW, with the exception of some very small amount of quite recent American literature, I have never seen the Cobra referred to as anything other than an AC Cobra. Nasty 11:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

The same sort of argument's going on at the Ford GT40 page. Both cars were designed and built in Britain, with the only American input being the V8 engine - and the original GT40s were only available in right hand drive. 'Anglo-American' seems about right for a description for both - unless any of you prefer 'American-engined British car' - or 'British car with an American engine' - they certainly weren't 'American' cars. Perhaps you'd prefer 'British kit car' as a lot of engineless cars were shipped to the US for fitting the V8.

Alternatively, if you are really sure that they are classed as 'American' because American money paid for them then perhaps you'd like to 'mosy on' over to the North American P-51 Mustang page, and change all references to 'American fighter airplane' to 'British fighter aeroplane', as that was designed in the US for the British who paid North American cash for the designing and for the first hundred-or-so of them built.

Possible urban myth, but my housemate swore he heard it on the radio: a little old lady being interviewed had apparently owned one of each model AC Cars produced as they were introduced. Her favourite was the Cobra. She was most particular about having it serviced, and she had her own way of checking the mechanic hadn't screwed up her car. She would take it out onto the motorway and get it up to 70 mph. She would then floor the accelerator and time how long it took to reach 100 mph (some ridiculously short time IIRC). If it was "sluggish" (!) she would immediately return it and complain. Phil 12:36, Dec 10, 2003 (UTC)

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I've linked to replica car but would kit car be more appropriate? --Phil 08:53, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)

Replica is better. Some Cobra replicas are kits, but some are delivered complete. Some are only 'kits' to avoid taxes and/or regulatory requirements, and require only very simple assembly. —Morven 08:57, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

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Is the car called the AC Cobra or the Shelby Cobra? I never heard the AC name used on the Cobra before, but I see some web references to both... --SFoskett 04:28, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

It could depend on which side of the Atlantic you are. // Liftarn

What about the DC Cobra, or the AC/DC Cobra? Gzuckier 14:16, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wouldn't The DC Cobras be a great name for a band?Gzuckier 14:16, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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"There are Cobra Clubs around the country where enthusiasts meet and ride." What country would that be?

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Some text about the Cobra Daytona (the racing berlinetta version) will be a great improvement. Ericd 14:31, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

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Regarding the COBRA "DAYTONA" COUPE ("Covered Cobras"):

I'm no auto racing expert but have learned a good deal about these six cars recently. According to fairly voluminous information about them, their development, racing success and subsequent individual vehicle histories is fascinating and deserves a greatly expanded section.

An important correction seems to be in order regarding the strange coincidence that there are (were) two prominent auto racing personalities named "Peter Brock." The American version led Shelby's program to field a 'Ferrari killer' in the mid 1960s and is alive and well and recently heavily involved in the Superformance LeMans Coupe development program (mentioned here as the Hi-Tech South African replicar effort).

The beloved Australian racer and developer Peter Brock was recently killed in a rally there driving, by strange coincidence, a 'Daytona' reproduction car. (photo and caption substantially correct.)

BTW: The "Daytona" moniker was apparently coined by the automotive press when I believe the first (and perhaps also being the only American-built) copy of the 'Brock Cobra Coupe' was prematurely disabled (destroyed?) in a pit fire during the course of decisively trouncing the factory Ferraris in its first outing at Daytona.

Picture

I took this picture 2 days ago but i dont know how to put it up (or who to check with to see if it could be useful for the article). If anybody could help me out, it would be great. Here is the link http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/526/img2314hq5.jpg Sorry about the trouble, im pretty much new to this.

go to here http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Special:Upload Gzuckier 20:23, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Kirkham Motorsports

This bit seems a bit suspicious, it sounds almost like Kirkham added it themselves. I mean if these replicas are supposed to be good then fine, but it doesn't need to go on about it quite so much, and there are many more high quality replicas too, not just Kirkham.--Santahul 16:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Not true. Kirkham makes by far the best and most accurate replica. Yes, there are other decent replicas but nothing comes close to a Kirkham. Current Shelby replicas and Kirkham replicas are also the only replicas built with aluminum bodies. As mentioned, Kirkham supplies the aluminum bodies for the current replicas built under the Shelby name. Kirkham definitely deserves a detailed mention in this space.

For sure they deserve a mention, but not a two paragraph advertisement!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.206.245.192 (talk) 13:28, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

Cobra Replica Distortions

This article is becoming perverted by a continuing effort to promote the advertising interests of Kirkham, who are only one of a large number of Cobra replica suppliers. The text used has been highly distorted and has actively disparaged all other replica manufacturers, some of whom produce very high quality products. In any case Cobra replicas are not a relevant topic in this article anyhow. If replicas are to be dealt with it should be in a fair and comprehensive treatment. As for the right to describe a car as a Cobra it should be pointed out that the rights to the Cobra name and logo ultimately rests with Ford, and in 1987 Ford granted AC Cars under Brian Angliss the right to the name and logo in all countries but the USA, withholding the USA rights. Ford by 1987 had a controlling interest in AC Cars Ltd. Both Shelby and AC Cars products in the 80’s and 90’s both warrant the name Cobra, from a historic as well as a legal perspective. Howie770 19:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

In Popular Culture: Gunsmith Cats entry is flat-out wrong

Rally Vincent, the lead character in Gunsmith Cats, owns a Shelby Cobra GT500 -- a Mustang, not an AC Ace. She has been shown driving an AC Shelby and against an AC Shelby, but it isn't her car. I don't like just deleting things outright, so I'll post this and leave it for a while, then edit the main page (which I'm going to do anyway since it has some minor typos like spelling 'shelby' as 'shebly' and such.)

Possibly going back into production?

Hasn't there been talk of the Cobra going back into production, with an updated appearance? http://www.pistonheads.com/Ginetta/default.asp?storyId=17208 <-- This one seems to be bandied about the most often. --98.232.188.173 (talk) 07:32, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

"COB 1"

This was the (UK) registration number of a twin-turbocharged 1967 427 good for about 700 bhp, which used to belong to Hertfordshire classic car dealer Rod Leach and appears to have been sold at auction in 1998. It was on display in HR Owen in South Kensington for a while when I was a Penniless Student Oaf in the early 80s. Anyone got any more info, as all I could glean from Leach's adverts in long-gone magazine "Supercar Classics" that it was up for sale at the time when the bottom dropped out of the classic car market in the early 90s.Mr Larrington (talk) 15:12, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

1 COB (is that the same car?) is currently (Oct 2011) available to drive around Goodwood circuit, courtesy of Mithril Racing. I drove her in fine weather yesterday and can confirm that she's in excellent condition! ColynK (talk) 12:29, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

"Coupes or Coupé"

I'm puzzled by the section heading "Coupes or Coupé". There seems no need to highlight the alternative spellings in this way -- unless the issue is of notable significance to the subject, which seems not to be the case since it is not even mentioned in the main text. I also don't understand the plural ("Coupes") versus singular (Coupé) distinction. I would normally just change it to, say "Coupés", but I'm wondering if I'm missing some point. 81.157.197.168 (talk) 00:32, 22 April 2010 (UTC).

Picture of AC Cobra Mk 1.

This is actually a picture of an AC Ace. The car that preceeded the Cobra. The picture should be removed, or clarified that it is the car that AC constructed prior to the AC/Shelby Cobra. (Not sure how to edit pictures at this point in time.) TwoManyMinis (talk) 01:12, 2 September 2010 (UTC)TwoManyMinis

Peter Brock...

Someone added that Peter Brock (designer of the Cobra Coupe) was killed in a race in Australia in 2006. The Aussie racer Peter Brock was a different person. Check the disambiguation list, there are two Peter Brocks involed with cars and racing. The Peter Brock involved with Shelby is happily still alive.

Whoever added that to this entry was very careless... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bassetman4 (talk • contribs) 17:07, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect Fact

I apologize, I'm new to editing Wikipedia and I'm not sure if this is the correct way to point this out, but I noticed an inaccuracy on one of the pages but hesitated to delete the fact altogether. Thus, I am making a note of it here.

The Quote: The Cobra was perhaps too successful as a performance car and reputedly contributed to the implementation of national speed limits in the United Kingdom. An AC Cobra Coupe was calculated to have done 186 mph (299 km/h) on the M1 motorway in 1964, driven by Jack Sears and Peter Bolton during shakedown tests prior to that year's Le Mans 24h race.[6]

The Inaccuracy: I looked up the source which refers to a different car, albeit one derived from the AC Cobra Cope. Specifically, the car referred to by citation #6 is the Shelby Daytona Coupe. The AC Cobra Coupe was drag limited to a much lower speed, but my cursory search for a source on this turned up nothing. Nevertheless, the fact above misrepresents which car reached 186.

WRXspec (talk) 21:57, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

The paragraph reads, at the moment: "An AC Cobra Coupe was calculated to have done 186 mph (299 km/h) on the M1 motorway in 1964, driven by Jack Sears and Peter Bolton during shakedown tests prior to that year's Le Mans 24h race.[6] However, government officials have cited the increasing accident death rate in the early 1960s as the principal motivation, with the exploits of the AC Cars team merely highlighting the risk." This makes little sense at the moment and presumably refers to the nationwide introduction of speed limits; and I certainly remember the incident. But I do not have a reference. Cross Reference (talk) 00:49, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Mark I, Mark II and Mark III

The book AC Cobra by Rinsey Mills ISBN 1-85960-849-3 contains a comprehensive list of AC Cobra chassis numbers. This list does not designate the original leaf spring chassis as Mark anything (Speculation that Mark I is a retronym, since it was not used until production of the next generation began.) Two of the original series, chassis numbers CSX 2701 and CSX 2702 became the first two Mark II chassis with the coil spring suspension and the 427 engine. These chassis were renumbered CSX 3001 and CSX 3002. This book designates the Coil spring chassis as Mark II (pg 118 and pg 152.) Nowhere in this book have I encountered a reference to a "Mark III" I am reticent to make such extensive modifications to the article without additional citations but I am confident that there was not a Mark III Shelby Cobra. Qwy47 (talk) 08:00, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Taking AC out of the US.

I am taking the "AC" out of Ford/Shelby for now. I don't recall "AC" ever being used, outside of it's history. We (US) had Austin-Healy, MG, and Triumph, but nobody had ever heard of AC, before or since. I doubt that Ford ever advertised it as AC. This has nothing to do with who designed/built/assembled it, only who got credit for it here. Sammy D III (talk) 17:33, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Cobra being a muscle car

Hello. I've read blogs and talked to mechanics and they all said that the AC Cobra is a muscle car? Doesn't anyone one else except some blogs and friends believe in that? Thank you. (With preference I wish to speak to Bahooka.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muscle Car Driver (talk • contribs) 02:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Muscle Car Driver for bringing up this topic here. I believe the Cobra is more frequently and correctly classified as a sports car rather than a muscle car. For example, see here and here. Bahooka (talk) 02:18, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Ok. But please see here http://www.odometer.com/rides/5902/top-11-muscle-cars-of-the-60s-and-70s#page=1 and here http://www.carscoops.com/2011/03/1965-shelby-cobra-427-vs-ferrari-458.html (Muscle Car Driver (talk) 02:24, 5 November 2015 (UTC))

If you still think it's a sports car, why don't we compromise. We will add Sports car/ Muscle car. What do you think?

Thank you (Muscle Car Driver (talk) 02:30, 5 November 2015 (UTC))

Glad you brought some references, but I'll wait to hear from others before addressing a compromise. Also, please note that in the Muscle car Wikipedia article (I know Wikipedia is not a reference) it states that muscle cars "are distinct from two-seat sports cars and expensive 2+2 GTs intended for high-speed touring and road racing." I think the two-seat sports cars intended for road racing fits the Cobra better. Thanks, Bahooka (talk) 02:39, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

That is a good point, but it also says in muscle cars that: "muscle cars are intended for street use and occasional drag racing." Many Cobras where drag racing versions, and they were mostly street legal. Thank you. (Muscle Car Driver (talk) 02:46, 5 November 2015 (UTC))

It's a sports car, with a big V8. It's far too small to be a muscle car, to be a muscle car it should be a family car fitted with a large and powerful engine, or possibly a pony car, which is still a relatively inexpensive car based on components shared with family cars. The AC Cobra is no more a muscle car than a Corvette is. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:19, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

A muscle car is a small car with a big V8. Isn't that what you said?? How is a muscle car a family car when it's a two or 2+2 seater? Thank you, (Muscle Car Driver (talk) 13:04, 5 November 2015 (UTC))

Me? No, I said it's too small to be a muscle car and it doesn't have the humble origins required to be a muscle car. The classic definition of muscle cars are cars derived from family cars with powerful engines. Pony cars are another story, their definition is less clearly defined, but they also most certainly have the humble components from family cars combined with a relatively low price. The AC Cobra is neither based on a family car nor a pile of humble components & I'm guessing that it wasn't that cheap.

Not everything with a V8 crammed in it, is a muscle car. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:10, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

So what do you consider it? A hot rodded sports car? (Muscle Car Driver (talk) 14:22, 5 November 2015 (UTC))

I wouldn't use that as an official wikipedia category, but it sounds cool. Sports car seems to be the most accurate. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:55, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Okay. It was nice talking to you. The Cobra will be a sports car then. (Muscle Car Driver (talk) 15:58, 5 November 2015 (UTC))

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Who is "Shelby"?

The article mentions somebody named Shelby many times, but never actually says who he or she is, or links to a Wikipedia page for the person(?). Rob Kelk 17:16, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

An IP editor removed the information on Caroll Shelby back in May saying it was incorrect [2]. I don't know enough to say whether the information was in fact correct or not. ~~ Jessintime (talk) 17:30, 22 October 2024 (UTC)