Talk:2014 Euromaidan regional state administration occupations

Map

Don't mean to WP:OWN but restored the map I made because it a) syncs with the sources on the page and b) the guy who made the other map seems to have...painted it by hand? Using a simple fill tool wouldn't let one easily swap out region colors, the current one can be quickly edited as the situation changes. --Львівське (говорити) 14:45, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

• 1) Please change the colour scheme (to red-yellow-grey/green, for example). Black colours with black borders is a very bad idea. We cannot see the regions' borders in the West now. 2) Please use the data from new available sources, see this video. 3) Please show a sources for each region. NickSt (talk) 18:12, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

1) sorry if you dont like the black, i'll pick a different scale of colors if that's an issue. 2) segodnya as a single source (a video for that matter) is not a good source to use. I do not need to provide references to you for each region: the entire article has at the moment 80 references. --Львівське (говорити) 18:18, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

• dont mean to toot my own horn, but this is why this page needs to exist and we need to make our own maps: http://bm.img.com.ua/berlin/storage/news/600x500/c/eb/a771729292789443381e310d5ef6debc.jpg this is the most popular map out there] and it's missing Chernihiv, as is Segodnya. On this page of course we have sources confirming Chernihiv was taken days ago, and that even today multiple sources confirm they have full control of the RSA - but the news is sleeping on the job in making these maps. --Львівське (говорити) 01:17, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

• added dark grey for oblasts where they are fortified by the Regions / police and not allowing opposition members or journalists or anyone else in - these are occupations just as the rest.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Lvivske (talk • contribs)

• Good work now. Any idea for indicating of Crimea and East regions situation? Maybe blue colour for Donbass/Crimea? See here. Maybe separate colour for Kiev city inside of Kiev Oblast? NickSt (talk) 12:13, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

kiev runs both kiev oblast and kiev city so dont think separation is needed (since there is not RSA to occupy in the province). as for regions stuff...I dunno, I think it'll get messy if we just say "this is a regions area". Maybe show 2010 election maps in the body so readers can understand the areas political leanings? Right now the map was entirely for occupations and blockades of RSAs --Львівське (говорити) 15:16, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Zhytomyr

Espreso.tv is putting Zhyt in their maps. here and here - just putting this out if anyone can find a source in the news regarding a change in the situation or if they just colored it wrong. --Львівське (говорити) 04:06, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

• Last news about Zhytomyr was here [1] NickSt (talk) 10:35, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
  • About Lviv see this ref. NickSt (talk) 11:55, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

does lviv count as a blockade or does it go grey now? what with the governors floor being blocked up so they cant enter, but by the council, not the protesters...but the council is working for the protesters since they're all opposition members.--Львівське (говорити) 15:14, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Use of the phrases Black Thursday or Dictatorship Laws

Per the discussion in Talk:Anti-protest_laws_in_Ukraine#Requested_move, I think the new laws should be consistently referred to as the anti-protest laws. If the phrase 'Black Thursday' or 'Dictatorship Laws' are used it should be written with single quotes to denote its non-standard use. I've made the relevant edits in the article. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 21:44, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Infobox

What does "Mykolayiv and Zhytomyr are barred by police and ruling party" mean and can we get some citations for it? Also, it is stated "Police of Rivne Oblast defect" but without citation. The only thing I could find was this vague statement of support for the Euromaidan - ["We are with the people"] - by the Chief of Police of Rivne city Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 23:55, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

there are citations, consult the body text. What happened is that the police and the ruling part barricaded the RSA so that nobody could get in but themselves. --Львівське (говорити) 01:37, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

OK. I read it literally to mean that the cities of Mykolayiv and Zhytomyr had been barred rather than just the RSAs. Perhaps it would be clearer if it read, "Mykolayiv RSA and Zhytomyr RSA under police lockdown" or something to that effect. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 02:09, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

I thought it was standard to include citations in the infobox but I could be wrong. I've been unable to find citations for the claimed defection of Rivne Oblast police in the body text. It can be difficult to find citations that are written in Ukrainian for someone unfamiliar with the language. Could the relevant citations be added to the infobox? Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 02:16, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Removal of content

This was removed but I double checked and it pans out, so what's the deal? "Khmelnytskyi city council joining the People's Rada is not supported by the citation given" but the source says: "Another solution municipal elected representatives supported the decision of the Constituent Assembly, which took place in Kyiv on 22 January, on the establishment of the People's Council unanimously Ukraine came of it." --Львівське (говорити) 01:35, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

I can't make much sense of those words. It's very broken English. I'll trust your understanding of the original Ukrainian - Does it say the Khmelnytskyi city council will be represented in the People's Rada (speaking, voting, etc) or is it just a statement of support for the People's Rada? I understood it to mean the latter but, as I said, it could easily have been a problem with the translation. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 02:23, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Need sources for "escape" of Governor Chudnova

I'm posting this here from my talk page in the hopes that someone else can provide the necessary citations. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 19:25, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

I see you fact checking my source but I'd just like to tell you that if something is supported by one source but missing another tidbit not in it, I probably got it from the Kyiv Post daily log and just forgot to cite it. I'm sure the 'governor escaped' stuff is somewhere, virtually all of the text I've added has been facts taken verbatim from the sources I consult. --Львівське (говорити) 01:31, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

OK. I'm new to Wikipedia so I'm sorry if I go about things the wrong way. I'll try to get your input before making any significant changes. I've found some useful information from [Free Europe Radio Liberty] that could be incorporated into the article. Regarding Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast, it reads, "On January 24, about 1,000 protesters held a vigil outside the building and demanded that the governor, Vasily Chudnova, resign, but he has thus far refused." which seems to imply that the governor was still in the regional administration building as of 24 January. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 01:42, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

before removing content outright, add a tag or something to the sentence - that way other editors (ie, me) can double check it. I added all the content myself but its possible that I read 2 sources that were similar and inserted the one that missed the point you're looking for. I'll try to double check the statements you're finding issues with to see where I got that info so that it's properly sourced. The entire reason I made the article was for my own edification in keeping track of all the news and sources, so, we're both in this for accuracy (and I for sure didn't make anything up) --Львівське (говорити) 01:48, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

I'll be sure to make use of tags in the future. Thanks for the advice. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 01:55, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

The [citation given] does state, "According to some, Chudnov fled through the back door of his office." which is what I thought the claim of escape was based on. I just didn't think it was strong enough support and I couldn't find any other sources on the matter. Perhaps the English translation was imperfect? Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 02:01, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

fled, escape, same thing no? --Львівське (говорити) 20:02, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

"According to some, Chudnov fled through the back door of his office." It was the phrase, 'according to some' which gave me pause. At the least, the article should reflect the source and not state definitely that Chudnow fled. Further, claims of escape seem to be contradicted by [Free Europe Radio Liberty] which writes, "On January 24, about 1,000 protesters held a vigil outside the building and demanded that the governor, Vasily Chudnova, resign, but he has thus far refused." I'm going to add 'according to some' to the text but it sounds like wp:weasel and I'd rather just remove the claim entirely. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 21:36, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Councillor Volodymyr Voitovych

I'm not comfortable leaving the statement, "councillor Volodymyr Voitovych pleaded before the people on his knees before himself resigning as well" indefinitely as it seems too provocative to stand without a citation. I can find sources for the councillor's resignation but not for his dramatic prelude. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 19:28, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

is there seriously nothing in the sources? i've read it on multiple occasions. There's video of it too! --Львівське (говорити) 20:03, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

searching for volyn oda on google got this for me in 2 seconds: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 --Львівське (говорити) 20:06, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

According to your sources, it was Governor Kilmchuk who pleaded on his knees, not Councillor Voitovych as the article states. I'll rewrite the section accordingly. Also, it should be made clear what the governor was pleading for. From what I could understand, Kilmchuk was pleading for the protestors to refrain from violence but I don't want to rely on google translate so I'll leave that part up to you. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 21:19, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

do they all say kilmchuk? i know i wrote one originally, and then changed it after the sources contradicted one another. take your pick --Львівське (говорити) 21:31, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

I think they all say Kilmchuk. The video here 3 shows Kilmchuk get on his knees for about a second which is probably what this is all referring to. Could you please translate what he says while he's on his knees? Thanks. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 21:42, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

I can't speak Ukrainian well enough to do any translating. --Львівське (говорити) 22:05, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Oh. I assumed you were from Ukraine but I see now we are from the same province. :) Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 22:10, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Can you read Ukrainian? Can you tell me if the sources says what Kilmchuk was pleading for? The results from google translate are too broken for me to be certain. If we can't ascertain what Kilmchuk is pleading for then I think we should just remove it. To simply say, 'Kilmchuk pleaded with the protestors' is going to cause confusion. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 22:18, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm google translating too ;) --Львівське (говорити) 22:21, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

2 says "He stood before them on knees asking to peaceful protest ended peacefully in Lutsk.", #3 says "on knees begging to protest ended peacefully. , "I will write Still statement but when people disperse to their homes", #4 says "He stood before them on knees asking to peaceful protest ended peacefully in Lutsk.", #5 says the same stuff --Львівське (говорити) 22:26, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

I summarize it in the article to read, "Governor Kilmchuk momentarily kneeled before protesters during a plea for them to disperse peacefully. Ceding to protestors' demands, Governor Kilmchuk and Councillor Voitovych resigned." and added the source with the video. How does that sound? Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 23:48, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

10 RSAs?

Dated Feb 8 by Dr. Adrian Karatnycky (senior fellow with the Atlantic Council of the U.S.) : here: "Ten of Ukraine’s twenty-five regions are beyond the control of the central authorities and the center of the capital is under opposition occupation."

--Львівське (говорити) 20:26, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Feb 12, now 4 RSAs: link : "he headquarters of five local administrations and the session room of a regional legislature remain occupied by protesters, Ukraine's Prosecutor General's Office said on Wednesday. Altogether 37 facilities are paralyzed because they are being blockaded by protesters, Iryna Zarubynska, head of a department at the Prosecutor General's Office, told a briefing in Kyiv. Protesters are occupying the regional administration headquarters in Ivano-Frankivsk, Lviv and Ternopil, the city administration building in Kyiv, the district administration building in Lviv region, and the session room of the regional council in Poltava, she said." --Львівське (говорити) 03:36, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Rename

• @Львівське, maybe rename this article to 2014 protests across Ukraine or 2014 protests in regions of Ukraine? Because protests include not only RSA occupations now. NickSt (talk) 12:41, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

i agree we need to change the article name, likely. the original point for this article was to be just about occupations, not about protests.--Львівське (говорити) 17:23, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merge with 2014 Pro-Russian protests in Ukraine

Please keep this discussion central at: Talk:2014_Pro-Russian_protests_in_Ukraine#Proposed_merge_with_2014_Ukrainian_Regional_State_Administration_occupations. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 14:57, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

horribly out of date since the Yatsenyuk Government began

After Feb 27, the information totally drys up. The maps are from a revolutionary time, not a post revolutionary time. So which RSAs were handed back from pro-Ukraine protesters to Yatsenyuk? Which RSAs went from Yatsenyuk to pro-Russia protesters? Which RSAs went from pro-Ukraine to pro-Russia (protester to protester)? Which RSAs went from Azarov to Yatsenyuk? Which RSAs went from Yatsenyuk to pro-Ukraine? Patcat88 (talk) 04:34, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

pretty sure they all went back to the yatsenyuk gov now. The ones the pro-Russian protesters took temporarily are mentioned on the pro-Russia protests article. --Львівське (говорити) 04:35, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Map

The map needs updating. The Donetsk capitol building was recently occupied by Russian supporters.74.102.164.176 (talk) 19:09, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Map

I think the "governor resigns" thing should be taken out or replaced with some kind of symbol, because, how do you know if the building has been seized and the governor has resigned in an oblast?

It also needs updating, maybe red for oblasts that pro-European protesters seized, blue for oblasts that pro-Russian protesters seized, and red and blue stripes for oblasts in which the RSA's were seized by both pro-Ukrainian and pro-Russian protesters? The Kharkiv RSA and I think the Zaporizhia RSA was occupied by both types of protesters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.73.13.209 (talk) 13:51, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

This article is only for Euromaidan, though I do think the map should be made clearer. RGloucester — ☎ 14:02, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

I updated the map. Does it do the job? RGloucester — ☎ 18:22, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Very nice map, but I think there wasn't an attempted seizure in Odessa and I think there was an attempted seizure in Kirovograd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.73.13.209 (talk) 21:42, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

I checked the sources. There was no attempted seizure in Kirovograd that I could find. The Odessa seizure attempt is documented here. RGloucester — ☎ 22:07, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

awesome, thanks RG! --Львівське (говорити) 18:26, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

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