Talk:École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne

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Comparison to MIT

I took out the reference to EPFL being "often referred to as the MIT of Europe" as the sources were: 1) dead and 2) pure propaganda. Since no one outside of the EPFL public relations department has ever referred to EPFL as the MIT of Europe, it just seems pathetic to try and promote this claim on wikipedia. 128.178.153.230 (talk) 15:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

So, someone undid my edit with no explanation. I want to point out that of the two references given, reference 2 is dead (i.e. it goes somewhere completely unrelated) and reference 3 does not support the claim at all. The speaker refers to EPFL and ETHZ as being the Swiss equivalent of MIT. Not "Europe's MIT." Thus, the references do not support the claim at all. Further, trying to promote the idea that EPFL is "Europe's MIT" just looks like pathetic boasting by some overzealous public relations person. Why can't EPFL be Europe's EPFL? Why pretend to be something that we are not? 128.178.153.230 (talk) 08:46, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

'The EPFL' vs. 'EPFL'

I know it might look a little unusual, but the university is referred to locally as 'the EPFL' (by staff and students, as well the PR dept). Should the article represent common usage, or how an English speaker would guess it would be used? GyroMagician (talk) 21:31, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

If you look at the EPFL webpage (www.epfl.ch), EPFL is referred to frequently as "EPFL" and not "the EPFL." As for it being referred to locally as "the EPFL," I can confirm that locally it is referred to as "EPFL" by many native English speakers. So, at the very least there is some confusion here and it seems like if the article is to be written for the English Wikipedia, then standard English usage might be more suitable. Either way, it should at least be consistent (which it currently is not).

128.178.153.230 (talk) 08:50, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the EPFL website, the official line seems to agree with you, so go ahead and update. And +1 for consistency. GyroMagician (talk) 18:53, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Musée Bolo

Musée Bolo has some info which could be included here - but WP:CWW would require that attribution be available. The following articles could probably use such an inclusion:

• Ohio Scientific
• Sharp PC-1500
• Grundy NewBrain

If notable on the English wiki, the museum could have its own article of course! --Trevj (talk) 14:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Typography and style

The current title is 'École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne' — although the correct spelling of the French name is 'École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne'. Can somebody correct this mistake? Senale (talk) 16:47, 29 January 2013 (UTC).

• At 22:26, 21 January 2007‎ user:Noirdez‎ moved École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne to École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne, giving the reason: "That is the real name according to the school's official website." It appears to me the only difference is whether the 'p' and 'f' in polytechnique fédérale are capitalized or not. Since this appears to be controversial, please follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Requested moves to submit a formal move request. Wbm1058 (talk) 17:57, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

More specifically, follow the instructions at WP:RM/CM. The way you were trying to do it won't work. Wbm1058 (talk) 18:24, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

In support of your request, when their website doesn't use all caps, they do lower case polytechnique fédérale: EPFL Reception desk & Information – Wbm1058 (talk) 18:30, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Requested move (1)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. Cúchullain ^t/c 20:23, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

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École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne → École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne – [Helping new editor who misformated RM; at request of Wbm1085] User:Senale wants to restore to French style small caps on adjectives in titles before ancient undiscussed move from 2007. In support WP:FRMOS indicates follow French style where no English name. Google Books show all small spelling See here. Also their website doesn't use all caps, school website uses lower case polytechnique fédérale: EPFL Reception desk & Information. misformatted RM posted 16:46, 3 February 2013 Senale (Senale) In ictu oculi (talk) 02:14, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

• Comment why are you using French language search, from France? English language specified google search from the general .com site -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 05:09, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

That's an all language search, to ensure the most recent and relevant search results per WP:IRS appear first. Compare the quality of the hits. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:38, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose Google Book Search indicates capitalized form in both English and German publications. Since Switzerland has German as an official language, and that's capitalized in German, I don't see a reason to use the French-style. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 05:11, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

This school is in the French speaking part of Switzerland. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:38, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: I understand why the results in German books would not be relevant for the French speaking part of Switzerland, but the search results from English books would surely still be relevant. Skinsmoke (talk) 08:59, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. "Do not capitalize the second or subsequent words in an article title, unless the title is a proper noun," per WP:NCCAPS. The GBook hits are all in French, and therefore not relevant. Update: Here are the English-language GBook hits. There are numerous results with the current capitalization. Kauffner (talk) 18:44, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per Kauffner. It's one thing to retain diacritics in other languages for the sake of accuracy, but it's quite another to adopt foreign capitalization conventions that contradict those of English and of Wikipedia. Leave this can of worms unopened. --BDD (talk) 17:21, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Skinsmoke, BDD, to be honest, personally I am not fussed. WP:NCCAPS specifically defers to foreign caps only for works of art/literature/music, there's no comment about institution names. As I said I was asked on my Talk page by Wbm to help User:Senale format this and I did so. A registered logged in User made a good faith RM, I was asked to assist, it at least deserves treating with at least a minimum of respect in that presumably the User is actually a student at this school. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:31, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

No hard feelings or anything. Past RMs have reinforced this position against the use of French capitalization conventions. See here, here, and here, for example. --BDD (talk) 16:08, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

BDD, no worries, I know of those RMs and have been neutral I believe, which is why I've never put in a RM like this for myself. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:32, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

• Comment – Wanted to thank In ictu oculi for helping the new editor, see this diff for their failed attempt that my bot promptly shot down. Some good quality debate here. The French language Wikipedia (fr: École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne) indeed has it exactly as proposed. Google Chrome's translate button changes the name to Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne, which is almost the way we have it here. For some reason, Chrome took the accent off of École, which is school in English. I think the "can of worms" was opened up when the article wasn't titled Federal Polytechnic University of Lausanne or Swiss Federal Polytechnic University of Lausanne. So the question is, do we just go part way, or all the way, when it comes to translating article titles to foreign languages? Wbm1058 (talk) 14:45, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Wbm1058. FYI Google Chrome's bug is covered in WP:FRMOS. The problem here is WP:FOREIGNCAPS (deliberately a redlink) is really a MOS issue that should just be set by expanding WP:NCCAPS to be specific, then we could avoid such RMs. At the moment the only WP:FOREIGNCAPS which are set are musical works - if it's a classical opera then "capitalize as the original language". But if it's a pop song TheN Add As ManY CAPS AS POSSible Like BillBOARD Does (that's done for effect to illustrate how phenomenally ugly/ridiculous a Spanish song looks after being treated to Billboard's ugly MOS, and en.wp follows Billboard for pop). As for French schools, I'm happy with the way they are. But it'd be nice to be able to say why. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:32, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move (2)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page no moved. mgeo talk 21:55, 21 March 2013 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

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École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne → École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne – When this school is mentioned, it is often as "EPFL" so that doesn't help us to decide. And the fact that the title was changed to the current version probably influenced some of the websites that are cited to say that we should not correct it now. As explained above, this is a French name and it should thus be written "École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne". The official EPFL website explains this (uppercase / lowercase). However, if some think that a translation should be used, then choose "Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne" instead of incorrect writing. But if this is too much change, then "École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne" is perfect. 83.228.160.232 (talk) 22:14, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose as in the previous RM. This directly contradicts the letter and spirit of the WP:MOS. Official names do not dictate our naming. --BDD (talk) 23:23, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
• Speedy procedural close - we just discussed this, less than a month ago. If you don't like it, take it to WP:MRV -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 23:33, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
• Speedy procedural close - I don't see a significant different argument. We all know recent French capitalization rules have changed to École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne. But even French texts/websites haven't caught up with that yet, its inevitable that English will take longer, if at all for institutions. English Likes Capitals For Proper Names and Titles. When change comes it will, one hopes, come first for mind-blastingly ugly CapLish Latin Song Titles like Ai Se Eu Te Pego, before institutions. In the meantime, thanks for your sincerity, do sympathize, but if you want to help anglophone users understand then maybe add sources from Grevisse to French orthography. A better use of time and bytes. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:40, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose on both procedural grounds and the fact that this is the English Wikipedia. The words that make up the proper names of institutions are ordinarily capitalized in English. —BarrelProof (talk) 22:50, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress (1)

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:ETH Zurich which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 08:59, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress (2)

The category Category:École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne is (wrongly) being considered for renaming to Category:École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne. See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Speedy and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 October 13. Lette Sgo (talk) 19:41, 13 October 2013 (UTC).

Partner institutions

I'm sorry, but every university has partner institutions that collaborate and have their students study abroad. I don't think an entire separate section is necessary to bullet all of the partner institutions. It's a bit redundant and excessive. Pastures of Andalusia (talk) 21:29, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Hyperlinks

The Organization section has hyperlinks to every department in the school. All of these should be removed. David notMD (talk) 10:25, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Official naming of EPFL

According to the EPFL website the official English naming is one of the following:

• "First choice : "EPFL" stand-alone"
• "For first-time readers : "EPFL, the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne,..."
• "Then always "EPFL"

I suggest that the page name is adapted and the metioning of EPFL in the text is changed accordingly. Please advise on how to proceed. Thanks! Quaenuncabibis (talk) 12:15, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Ive just done another check. Therei s no consistent English form, and no consistent form in other WPs. The French WP has École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne/ The school's official document has for English: [1]

First choice : "EPFL" stand-alone

For first-time readers: "EPFL, the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne,...

Then always "EPFL"

The NYTimes most recently used "EPFL."; Nature most recently " Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL)," AAAS "Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne". THE École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne" and also "École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL), or the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne,"

I suggest that the most common form at the moment in English is : École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL). DGG ( talk ) 02:00, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

In line with the official guidelines linked below [1] as well as consistency with the sister institution ETH Zürich, I suggest adjusting the name to "EPFL", and then begin the text identically to ETH: "EPFL (French: École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne; English: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Lausanne) is a public research university in Lausanne, Switzerland. " Marcelsalathe1 (talk) 15:50, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

I am surprised that you are surprised. What exactly is the conflict of interest, when I am an employee (which is well known and disclosed) and I want to make sure that the correct official name is used?

I see no issue with continuing to link from the french full name, as it is still in usage. But since 5 years now it is the official naming to use EPFL. How this can be interpreted as "marketing" priorities is puzzling to me. A

Further, I am not sure why there is a double standard in how EPFL and ETH Zurich are treated. If you look at the ETH Zurich page, I used exactly the same logic. Why exactly is it not possible for EPFL to be named EPFL, but is now in the first sentence referred to as the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology? I am sorry but this makes no sense. Marcelsalathe1 (talk) 13:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

As far as I know, the policy on Wikipedia is not to use the official guidelines, as they likely favour "marketing" priorities rather than an interest in encyclopedia and knowledge; the name that should be used on the page should depend on the usage most commonly observed. I am not a specialist, but the argument made by User:DGG above is closer to the way Wikipedia works. I'm surprised that you have made a change to the page so soon after writing a message on the talk page; as such, I have canceled your additions for now.

As an addition, I'm surprised that you would edit this page, especially to add information from the "official guidelines", while being a senior employee of the institution and without disclosing in any way this conflict of interest. I don't think this is how Wikipedia works.

References

Buildings, Archimedian Oath, Anime club

Concerning the changes by User :Possibly, I agree with deleting the Anime/Manga club. Birthplace of Archimedian Oath has a high relevancy – I would only delete the content of the oath («I commit… ») which is for the specialised article. Buildings: I would keep it in the article. It’s an overview (also referring to some article images!) - details can be read in the specialised articles. --Repinrepin (talk) 09:05, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Update and overhaul

Hello, we partly rewrote and updated the article on the EPFL: User:Quaenuncabibis/EPFL 3.0. Would someone be willing to help transferring the new/updated material to the main article? Due to my COI I am hesitant to do it myself. Thanks everyone for your help! Kind regards, Quaenuncabibis (talk) 07:31, 30 June 2022 (UTC)