Talk:Ásatrúarfélagið

Merge with Ásatrú

Why is this article different from Ásatrú? 200.55.118.233 23:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC) Nahuel

This is an organization and so has its own history and information. :bloodofox: 16:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Because it isn't about the religion qua religion, but rather about a particular organization which adheres to that religion. --D. Webb 17:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

"Pantheism"

I'm guessing this is a translation error, none of the Icelandic parts of the website say anything about pantheism ("algyðistrú" in Icelandic). Admittedly the word polytheism ("fjölgyðistrú" in Icelandic) doesn't occur anywhere either. Haukur (talk) 11:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Older versions of the site have 'pantheon' rather than 'pantheism'. Anyway, not sure what's going on here - it would be entirely reasonable to say something about pantheism (I think all the high priests have been pantheists, more or less) - but this is such an odd way to put it. Haukur (talk) 17:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Misconceptions

The following is some editorializing I can't put in the article but gives some idea of how I am approaching it.

I often encounter an idea that Ásatrúarfélagið is a model Germanic neopagan organization, free from the strife which has characterized many organizations in other countries and not associated with late 19th century or early 20th century ideas which have now become unfashionable (racial theories, theosophy etc.). To an extent, I think this is quite true. It's an established, fairly successful and reasonably respected organization. But it's easy to take this too far. Here's a typical example:

Many of these revivals, Wicca, Asatru and Neo-druidism in particular, have their roots in 19th century Romanticism and retain noticeable elements of occultism or theosophy that were current then, setting them apart from historical rural (paganus) folk religion. The Íslenska Ásatrúarfélagið is a notable exception in that it was derived more or less directly from remnants in rural folklore.[1]

I just don't think this is true. For one thing, very little of what the organization does has to do with remnants in rural folklore. The rituals are reconstructions based on literary sources rather than folk customs. And aside from literary sources there's the fact that if you want your religious organization to be relevant it had better provide the services which people expect from a religious organization. In Iceland, those expectations have very much been formed by the Lutheran Evangelical Church. So, to take an example, if you want to provide people with a relevant option you'd better provide a confirmation-type ceremony for 14 year old children - even if you don't have any literary sources for such a ceremony and even if you think that's too young an age. I think the organization has finally come to terms with this in the last few years.

Now, for another thing, it's not at all true that Icelandic neopaganism in the 1970s was not in touch with elements of occultism or theosophy. Both Sveinbjörn Beinteinsson and Þorsteinn Guðjónsson (who was probably the second most prominent person in the organization in its early years) were active members of the Nýall society, dedicated to the theories of Helgi Pjeturss. This was a somewhat peculiarly Icelandic development of theosophy/occultism/spiritualism which took a very materialistic and, in the view of its adherents, scientific view of spiritual phenomena. The most central of Helgi Pjeturss' theories was the idea that humans receive contact from material beings on other planets in dreams and in trances (kind of like Epicurus' view of the gods). It's no secret that Sveinbjörn was influenced by Helgi Pjeturss - he says so in his autobiography, for example. I do think Sveinbjörn took the whole thing with a grain of salt while Þorsteinn was more devoted to it. Þorsteinn was also very keen on racial ideas, as I've now briefly alluded to in the article.

Now, to what an extent did these ideas influence Ásatrúarfélagið? Surprisingly little, perhaps. Sveinbjörn seems to have made it clear early on that the organization would not be a vehicle for a racial political agenda. Ideas from Nýall are not present in any material I've seen from the organization, nor even in early press coverage of it (aside from the bishop's criticism, but that's another story). Sveinbjörn was the face of the organization and the press was happy to portray him as a kindly old traditionalist. And he was. In fact, it's easy to see a certain disappointment in the press that paganism really wasn't Sveinbjörn's main interest. He was, above all, interested in poetry and in that field he was certainly the representative of an old and continuous tradition going back to pagan times. Sveinbjörn did not 'resurrect' the rímur tradition, as is sometimes claimed. The rímur were still alive, even if they had seen better days.

In any case, I do think it's true that Ásatrúarfélagið is a successful neopagan organization but I don't think it should be seen as fundamentally different in its origins than other such organizations. Haukur (talk) 17:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

you are 100% right of course. I admit to writing the paragraph you are objecting to, but I wrote it years ago (I think), before I had a good understanding of Germanic neopaganism. You are most welcome to fixing this, or I will try once I get round to it. --dab (𒁳) 17:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I didn't even realize I was quoting something currently in Wikipedia. I've now removed the sentence about Ásatrúarfélagið from the Paganism article. Haukur (talk) 17:15, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Founding members and more on Nýall

Ásatrúarfélagið considers its founding date to be the First Day of Summer 1972. Different sources say that the people present at that founding meeting were either 11 or 12. At least one source says that there were six men and six women. Combining a few sources, I get the following six men as founding members:

• Dagur Þorleifsson
• Jón frá Pálmholti
• Jóhannes Ágústsson frá Keflavík
• Jörmundur Ingi Hansen
• Sveinbjörn Beinteinsson
• Þorsteinn Guðjónsson

If there were also five or six women then I haven't been able to find any of their names (though it's plausible that e.g. the wives of Jón and Þorsteinn were there) and they don't seem to have been prominent in the early years. Jörmundur Ingi mentions in a 2008 interview that he, Sveinbjörn, Dagur and Þorsteinn sat down to write the moral code of the new religion (and that they agreed on everything there). Those four seem to have been the most prominent members in the early years. Jörmundur mentions in the same interview that he participated in some Nýall séances but it seems that he got involved with this after the founding of Ásatrúarfélagið rather than before (he also mentions that he thinks these events did not get much useful information and that he is not convinced that they did contact spirits of the deceased). I don't know if Dagur was into Nýall too - it would not be surprising, he translated Erich von Däniken's books. Curiously, there is a 1973 article which explicitly states that Jón did not consider himself a Nýallist. About Jóhannes I have no information.

I've added a summary of bishop Sigurbjörn Einarsson's intial criticism of the organization. He connects the dots from Ásatrúarfélagið to Nýall to Ariosophy. And he was correct too, as far as that goes. But it doesn't seem like the media took any interest in this angle and it doesn't seem like the organization felt any need to defend itself against it. So why was this such a big deal to the bishop and not to anyone else? I think I can explain. It was a big deal to Sigurbjörn Einarsson because he himself was a Nýallist and a neopagan in his youth. He even wrote some stirring words on how Christianity was a bad religion and how paganism was the way of the future. Later, of course, he reconverted to Christianity and became a church leader and the leading Christian intellectual in Iceland. It's not surprising that he would view his former opinions with such distaste - think St Augustine and the Manicheans.

But why doesn't anyone else seem to have cared much about this? Well, I think a part of the explanation is that Iceland did not suffer greatly in WWII, was never at war with Germany and was never occupied by Axis forces. The symbolism, conflict and philosophy of that era thus didn't leave as deep a mark on the Icelandic nation as on, say, the Norwegian one. So, to establish a (somewhat vague) connection between Ariosophy and a newly founded neopagan organization just didn't pack as much emotional punch in Iceland as it might have in Denmark or Norway or Germany at the same time. Haukur (talk) 23:52, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Maybe I've made the whole Nýall thing sound more sinister than it was. In that case I should note that as far as I am aware it was a completely harmless group that conducted garden variety séances and had vague ideas about some sort of Icelandic Manifest Destiny. Haukur (talk) 10:31, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

References

Icelanders abroad

It's interesting that Icelandic neopagans in mainland Scandinavia have been prominent in the scene. Jón Júlíus Filipusson founded Foreningen Forn Sed in Norway. In Denmark, Óttar Ottósson headed up Forn Siðr. In Sweden, Jóhannes Ágústsson (one of the founders of Ásatrúarfélagið) has been active and at one point a misunderstanding circulated that had him as allsherjargoði over Sweden. Haukur (talk) 09:13, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Numbers

Year	Total All at end of year	Total Enter on the year	Total Exit on the year	Under 18 Total (Males and Females)	Males Total at end of year	Males Enter on the year	Males Exit on the year	Females Total at end of year	Females Enter on the year	Females Exit on the year
1997	280	35	12	19	238	30	8	42	5	4
1998	304	35	10	22	250	22	7	54	13	3
1999	353	61	12	23	291	49	8	62	12	4
2000	515	179	16	40	411	135	11	104	44	5
2001	570	68	8	41	454	52	8	116	16	0
2002	636	90	23	46	500	72	21	136	18	2
2003	787	172	20	58	601	121	14	186	51	6
2004	879	104	10	62	665	75	7	214	29	3
2005	960	80	11	74	715	54	8	245	26	3
2006	1040	107	33	87	767	74	25	273	33	8
2007	1154	132	26	98	853	98	16	301	34	10
2008	1275	139	19	120	921	82	14	354	57	5
2009	1402	170	28	136	992	111	17	410	59	11
2010	1700	349	41	168	1182	229	20	518	120	21
2011	1951	280	22	188	1338	174	12	613	106	10
2012	2148	223	36	229	1472	152	17	676	71	19
2013	2382	268	53	262	1614	172	28	768	96	25
2014	2675	350	38	298	1767	205	27	908	145	11
2015	3187	674	161	318	2096	438	110	1091	236	51
2016	3583	451	65	368	2369	310	42	1214	141	23

References

Globalize

First I'll note that this is also called Asatru in Iceland.[2][3].

It is describe as an international religion here:[4] and there's relevant text in the article. Doug Weller talk 16:30, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

This article is about a local heathenry organization, the religion itself is covered in the article Heathenry (new religious movement), I believe. – Þjarkur (talk) 18:15, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

'Refused to hand out more duties.'

Forgive me if I am misreading this, but this sounds like a later group that came to the movement sought more power, weren't given it, and took over. A gothi has never been 'sacked' and replaced in the history of the old gods. Nor is there evidence of female priests. I suspect these two things, and the 'radical anarchist' faction, were the people seeking more power who broke the church asunder into the old believers and the new airy fairy modern internet religion? 121.210.33.50 (talk) 14:19, 11 July 2020 (UTC)