Draft talk:Jung, Koch, Quentell

Page title?

This is a page about the charts, right? Maybe we should change the title to the original German name?

I propose "Jung-Koch-Quentell’sche Lehrtafeln" as the new title. Thoughts? Schoeneh (talk) 12:58, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

@Schoeneh

I would prefer Jung-Koch-Quentell as that's how they signed their work. "'sche Lehrtafeln" is very German and I didn't run into that phrase after a lot of digging. "Jung-Koch-Quentell wall charts" might work. Martijn Faassen (talk) 16:26, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, "Jung-Koch-Quentell" works for me :)

The original German titles of their publications will be named in the article itself.

I've run into this phrase in the contemporary sources (up until the 50s/60s) Schoeneh (talk) 16:31, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Bibliographic data?

Wouldn't it make more sense to also add a page for the persons Jung, Koch and Quentell? This could be a better place to add all the bibliographical information without cluttering this page too much... But there is always 'relevancy' as sword of Damocles... Schoeneh (talk) 15:38, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Koch definitely should have his own page, he had a lot of publications apart from JKQ. For the other two, I'm not sure there's enough material to justify their own pages. Bewo001 (talk) 15:48, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

That makes sense...

For Quentell there may be just enough material, for Jung I'm not really encouraged. Schoeneh (talk) 16:29, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

found a source that Quentell was in Schliersee in August 1896 [1]. Not wikipedia-worthy, but funny how newspapers would publish a list of people visiting the town Bewo001 (talk) 10:21, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Finally found some other link between Jung and von Koch. Both were members in the "Naturwissenschaftlicher Verein Darmstadt", which von Koch founded [2]. The Verein still exists [3]. Their page does not contain historical documents, though. Bewo001 (talk) 20:15, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Image databases

I wasn't successful in the hunt for usable images, but came across some interesting sources. bildindex.de [4] has some sketches made by von Koch. Müncher Digitalisierungszentrum [5] has a pretty good full text search of a large number of documents. I found a contemporary review of the charts [6] and von Koch's dissertation. Bewo001 (talk) 20:24, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Images licensed under CC BY-SA-NC-ND are not usable on Wikipedia, right?

Otherwise I got a few... Schoeneh (talk) 17:38, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes [7]. Maybe we must find a museum with Fromman&Morian charts (where the copyright has definitely expired), take pictures, and hope the museum agrees to cc by sa. Bewo001 (talk) 18:11, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

I could ask the Mitte-Museum, maybe they agree to re-licensing them under BY SA…

I wanted to talk to them anyway, we now have dates for Quentell and Jung (both are missing in the description).

https://global.museum-digital.org/object/2874353 Schoeneh (talk) 08:43, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

That would be great! I just ordered a library card for the ULB/TU Darmstadt Library. They have the Jahresberichte of the Naturwissenschaftlichen Verein, which hopefully contains some info about Jung. The also have the Claus Nissen book that is referenced in the "database of scientific illustrators", that gave us the first definitive link between Jung and JKQ. Then they have a biography of Gottlieb von Koch (and some children's books he wrote). After that, I'll split out a separate von Koch page. There are already a number of pages mentioning him. Bewo001 (talk) 20:03, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

The Art of Instruction: Vintage Educational Charts from the 19th and 20th Centuries

looks like this book would be a good source of more information. the author is a wall chart collector. it's referenced in plant science bulletin. Martijn Faassen (talk) 21:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Nice find!

I've got the epub (sadly only with Adobe DRM) and will take a look :) Schoeneh (talk) 17:53, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Update: Great resource, I will add information and quotes to the articles. Schoeneh (talk) 09:17, 6 January 2025 (UTC)