Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sources/Archive 33

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DSOGaming

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Last reviewed in 2012 here.

Going through the issues mentioned there:

>Fairly new site

Now more than a decade old.

>no staff or review process information that I could find

staff page here: https://www.dsogaming.com/staff/ It is mainly one full time writer with two others mentioned on that page having contributed this year.

>absolutely plastered in advertisements

I disabled Ublock to test this and strangely I didn't see any advertisements at all. I also tried multiple networks to make sure I didn't have Network-level blocking enabled. It seems the website is mainly supported by Patreon.

DSOG has had interviews with NVIDIA, IdTech, CD Projekt, Unity and CryTek as well as with researchers (eg). You can see the list here: https://www.dsogaming.com/category/interviews/

Interestingly, DSOG seems to be sourced in a few books/journals. The most notable of which is "Moral Rights and Mods: Protecting Integrity Rights in Video Games" published in University of British Columbia Law Review, Volume 46, Issue 3, by Michela Fiorido (university page) which can be viewed here and "Violent Games: Rules, Realism and Effect" in Approaches to Digital Game Studies Volume 3 published by Bloomsbury Academic and authored by Gareth Schott, who is a professor and researcher at University of Waikato (university page, publications)

Here is the relevant quote from Schott (pp. 158-159):

the extent of the input required to generate an outcome, proves relevant to definitions of interactivity as “either the performer’s actions affecting the computer’s output, or the computer’s action affecting the performer’s output” (Garnett 2001). With reference to the latter, gaming software again becomes relevant in the evaluation of performance. Take, for example, Dark Side of Gaming’s PC performance analyses of games, and consider Papadopoulos’s (2014) review of Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare:

While the game came with somewhat low CPU requirements, it listed 6GB of RAM as its minimum RAM requirement. Contrary to COD: Ghosts’ Story, however, Advanced Warfare really needs more than 4GB of RAM . . . the actual game used more than 3.6GB of RAM. This suggests that even if PC gamers find a way to run this title with 4GB of RAM, they will face major stuttering issues . . . In order to find out whether this title can be played with constant 60fps on a variety of PC systems, we simulated a dual- core, a tri- core and a quad-core system. All of the aforementioned systems were able to push constant 60fps. However, we do have to note that on our simulated dual-core system there were noticeable stuttering issues that went away as soon as we enabled Hyper Threading.

DSOG also appears as the source for the Giant Pink Scorpion in Giant Pink Scorpions: Fighting Piracy with Novel Digital Rights Management Technology by Andrew V. Moshirnia (university page) in DePaul Journal of Art, Technology& Intellectual Property Law Volume 23 Issue 1: (pdf)

Croteam, developer of the Serious Sam first person shooter ("FPS") franchise, inserted such whimsical obstacles into its game Serious Sam 3: Before First Encounter.[201] As Sam "Serious" Stone, the player takes control of a wide arsenal of weapons to fight a variety of monsters. If the game detects an unlicensed copy, it triggers a giant, invincible, pink scorpion armed with two shotguns that relentlessly hunts the player.

In general, if you look at the citations DSOG receives in academic works, it is generally about technical details such as modding, performance, and DRM. There are some more citations on Google Scholar but I did not go through all of them.

Lastly, the previous discussion seems to be about using DSOG for game reviews ("no review process information I could find"). I am not suggesting here that we use DSOG for reviews, only certain technical details.

The reason I bring this up is that DSOG goes into more technical detail than most video game news sources, especially in the field of game engines. For example it is the only site that reported on GameTrailers' interview with Tim Sweeney about Unreal Engine 4's abandoning of Sparse Voxel Octree Global Illumination, which is now unavailable as GameTrailers has been shut down for years. (For the record, I did not add that source to UE4, it was already there in the Unreal Engine article and I don't think it should be removed. I did spend a few hours trying to find that interview, however, but to no avail, as it seems not to have been archived, with IA only having archived the page itself and not the video.) And as I mentioned above DSOG does interviews with game engine developers and hardware companies. I think those interviews show both the usefulness and credibility of DSOG, at least in the specific field of game engines, and at least where there is no other source that it can be replaced with.

The particular point I would currently like to source from DSOG is that Ride 5 uses Unreal Engine 4, which no other site has reported. (GamingBolt reports that it uses Unreal Engine). J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 02:51, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

For reference this discussion has moved to WP:RSN#dsogaming.com for technical analysis in video games. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 12:29, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

sportacentrs.com (non-English source)

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SportaCentrs.com (LV Wikipedia) is a Latvian (non-English) media that publishes information about sports and also eSports.

The site was launched in 2002 and they have a professional team of journalists about sports and esports: https://parmums.sportacentrs.com/redakcija.html

How can you tell? It looks like a bare list of names on the staff page... Sergecross73 msg me 14:12, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Mikrobitti

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A Finnish tech/gaming magazine founded in 1984. Since 2015 the magazine has been published by Alma Media, which is among the biggest media companies in Finland. No longer publishes video game reviews with scores, but older issues did carry them until at least 2007. Nowadays the focus appears to be mostly on the online side, though most issues still carry a lone gaming article of 4–6 pages. Do note that all online articles become paywalled some time after their publication.

I don't see any particular reason why this one wouldn't be a reliable source, but asking never hurt anybody. 2001:999:50C:985D:34AD:A972:6E9:F4F4 (talk) 15:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Major long-running computing magazine in the country, I'd say reliable in face of lack of evidence for otherwise.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:51, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, most publications that started off on the hard copy magazine era has the credentials necessary to be considered an RS. Sergecross73 msg me 14:14, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Aktueller Software Markt

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Aktueller Software Markt (ASM) is a defunct German gaming magazine active from 1986 to 1995. I was unable to find much about it online, it does not appear to have its own website, and it does not appear to be cited by reliable sources often. Is it reliable? Thanks, QuicoleJR (talk) 18:10, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, see eurogamer.de, stayforever.de IgelRM (talk) 17:42, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Not sure how often it's going to come up on the English Wikipedia when it's a German print mag that when defunct 30 years ago...but yes, it would be usable. Sergecross73 msg me 14:15, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

GamerInfo.NET

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I notcied this source in the GA review for Rayman (video game), where it is principally used for release dates. I didn't see it as particularly reliable from a first glance but like to have it vetted more broadly for clarity at the review. IceWelder [✉] 18:11, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

• I'm leaning towards unreliable within the first few minutes of me looking at the site. The most detail we are given through the about page for the site is that it was "created for gamers by gamers" and has no list of staff or editorial policy. And using Alex Novichenko, one of the writers, as an example, it seems that the site allows people who don't normally do journalism to write (based on his Facebook profile that is linked instead of a staff page or a LinkedIn profile, he simply just has experience using Unity). I see no reason why this source would be reliable at first glance, either. λ NegativeMP1 18:19, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

  > Alex Novichenko, one of the writers

  Are there even any other writers? Quick look admittedly, but checking 15 random articles, they're all written by Alex Novichenko.

  The site also has 14 followers on Twitter and 21 on Facebook, which suggests it's not particularly notable.

  Between that, the lack of any editorial policy, and the lack of any obvious indicators of reliability, I'd suggest it's unreliable. DarkeruTomoe (talk) 19:13, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

The Rayman article only cites the website's games database?. A database that does not cite its sources from an unknown website is probably not reliable. IgelRM (talk) 17:29, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

• Unreliable per NegativeMP1 above. Sergecross73 msg me 14:16, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

EssentiallySports

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Found one previous discussion on this. None over at RSN, and I wonder that perhaps even if the WP:VG project deems it unreliable it may be considered usable in other spaces? Unsure. Would like to develop more of a consensus as it's not listed at WP:VG/RS. Noting that it's currently popping up on over 7,000 articles and across a variety of sports articles including very high-profile ones (incl. Stephen Nedoroscik, Sunisa Lee, Max Verstappen, Conor McGregor, Lauren Jackson (a GA), MrBeast, Nathan Chen (also a GA), Josh Allen, and Steve Kerr); also used in articles relevant to the WP:VG project such as Technoblade (2 uses on a GA), Valkyrae, Ludwig Ahgren, Kick (service), KSI. Soulbust (talk) 02:43, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

• Unreliable per last discussion on it in 2023 linked above. Sergecross73 msg me 17:07, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Vrutal

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As above, part of a GA review. It has a staff page, although many news pieces are still published anonymously. IceWelder [✉] 05:57, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

If a news piece is published anonymously, then my hopes aren't very high. And based on the staff page, most of the staff don't seem to have any real experience. I also suspect that two of the staff images are generated by AI, which lowers my faith in the site. I'd run a more thorough examination, but I do not speak Spanish and it's hard to navigate even with machine translation. I'm leaning unreliable. λ NegativeMP1 16:01, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

This was more or less my experience/stance as well. Sergecross73 msg me 17:09, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Appears to be part of a "RED DE WEBS" blog network, probably not reliable. Assuming this is still for the Rayman GA, do we need a source discussion for a 2 sentence ref, just replace it? IgelRM (talk) 17:19, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

RSN discussion on Geeks+Gamers

If anyone is interested see WP:RSN#geeksandgamers.com for potential deprecation. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 12:36, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Looks like the consensus was that it was unreliable, though I don't think that changes anything for us. I don't recall anyone trying to use it or push for its use in the past. Sergecross73 msg me 17:11, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

GameToc

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GameToc is a South Korean video game website that was technically established in 2010. This website started as a video game branch of The Korea Economic Daily web version, which started in 2009. Its old URL is even https://gametoc.hankyung.com/. But it appears this website went independent recently because the current version removed any mentioned to Hankyung (including the URL), and Hankyung does not list this website on their hompage any more. From what I've seen, the current writers only started publishing articles in 2022. [1], [2], [3] These are all some of the most active news sections in this website, and you can check it only goes as far as 2022. Its About Us explicitly says this website is now "GameToc 2.0" since March 2022. So, it's safe to say this rebooted website should be treated as a separate entity from the former The Korea Economic Daily incarnation.

All that said, this "GameToc 2.0" website is highly questionable because:

• No list of staff or editorial policy. Its About Us is just generic 'by the gamers' introduction.
• Its current owner Park Myeong-gi (박명기) is the only staff from the former website, and he has no known prior journalism experience. Nor does its editor-in-chief, Jang Dongjun (장동준).
• No known credentials found for any of its regular authors, of which there're only about 4, including the owner.
• Its articles mostly consist of press release for video games with little input from authors. The articles are strangely categorized; its "reviews" like this are not a review of video games but an announcement for new mobile game paid contents. Suspicion of WP:SPONSORED?
• The website has a very low exposure. Its Twiter account currently has 68 followers, which pales to any major Korean news website that goes five-to-six digits.

This GameToc 2.0 seems nothing of interest and I suggest marking this unreliable.--Emiya Mulzomdao (talk) 15:39, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

• Unreliable per above. Uncredentialed staff is a deal breaker. Sergecross73 msg me 17:13, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

KKNews

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This link should be avoided, as it is a Chinese content farm that frequently deals with video game topics. It is not allowed for use on the Chinese Wikipedia. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 16:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

While I can't evaluate it very well on my own, the fact that the Chinese Wikipedia considers it unusable pretty telling, as it seems like historically we're more strict than any of the other regional WPs. Sergecross73 msg me 17:15, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

TheXboxHub

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I'm surprised how this hasn't been listed here before. This has a staff page, listing 12 writers. Is it reliable? MK at your service. 14:08, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

My immediate thought would be unreliable, if just because (much like NicheGamer) it's got casino links.

There's one on the staff page itself and also articles with them such as these:

https://www.thexboxhub.com/casino-culture-in-gaming-how-xbox-titles-capture-the-high-stakes-thrill/

https://www.thexboxhub.com/how-xbox-could-invest-more-in-online-casino-games/

These tend to be undisclosed and paid for links from dodgy SEO companies paying for link insertion DarkeruTomoe (talk) 16:34, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm not really following. There's a bunch of reasons Nichegamer isn't considered reliable, but the fact they write articles about casinos was not cited in any of the ones I participated in. That would be a non-factor, in my opinion. Sergecross73 msg me 16:37, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

It's about their business practices causing a lack of trust. Not disclosing sponsored posts which isn't legal in some places and accepting paid for links. It also goes against their own advertising rules.which suggests they'd not keep to other policies they may have.

NicheGamer was just another example of an iffy site that uses this technique and online casinos are known to be particularly common in using this. I've seen a number of game journalists mention this as unethical, such as this one. You can see another example of it mentioned here. Edit: Actually Niche Gamers ethics around sponsored ads was mentioned previously here.

Aside from the lack of trust this causes, if for example it was made reliable, we could then consider the fact that it links to (as a fictional example) UnreliableGaming.com as part of the evidence for that site to then become reliable through UseByOthers. But UnreliableGaming.com could have paid them to link their articles. DarkeruTomoe (talk) 16:58, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Is there a conclusion? MK at your service. 09:44, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Leaning unreliable. While I'd prefer sponsored links to be, you know, properly tagged and not just under the admin account, in addition to that what's here on the staff page doesn't particularly sway me as it being a reliable source. Checking the EiC on Muckrack also doesn't help. I'd probably say not to use this as a source if I saw it come up.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 10:17, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Leaning unreliable Per Kung Fu Man above. I'm far more concerned about the lack of credentials on the staff, which largely max out at "liking video games". Sergecross73 msg me 15:15, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Palm Info Center

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I just recently discovered this website dedicated to Palm, Inc products. For those who don't know, Palm was a technology company that created a successful line of PDAs back when PDAs were popular. This website appears to be run by someone named Ryan Kairer. I found a Chicago Tribune article that briefly mentioned him and his website. The website last updated in 2019 and has archives going back to its founding in 1999

I'm not sure whether we would consider this website reliable. It is very niche and obscure, which could of course be of some benefit given how obscure PDAs have become, but it could also reflect this website potentially being self-published. What are your thoughts? Lazman321 (talk) 21:29, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

ginx.tv

Previously discussed here. At the time, there was no staff page which seems to be the reason it was unreliable. A staff page has since been added, and lists 11 full time writers. I am using it for the claim that The Exit 8 uses UE5, which currently has no source. Source for UE5 claim: https://www.ginx.tv/en/video-games/the-exit-8-steam-release J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 17:03, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

The EIC is a former Daily Star (United Kingdom) Gaming Editor. But it's fine for such a claim in any way. IgelRM (talk) 20:30, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

IGN & GameSpot for older titles

I've noticed this recently and have edited this main page to warn people. IGN for older games doesn't always have the correct release date, because if a date isn't exact (i.e. only the year is known), IGN defaults to displaying it as "December 31". This and this are some of many examples I came across. It could even be displayed as January 1.

Similarly, GameSpot articles including reviews from the 1990s don't have their correct publish dates, instead displaying the year as "2000". Example: This review dated 2000 but it is actually from 1998.

I imagine (certain actually) that these were mistakenly caused by database moves/changes and upgrades over the years. I hope people are aware because an incorrect release of Dec 31, 1999 with the IGN source was given in the San Francisco Rush 2049 article, which I have corrected by providing reliable sources giving the month of September proving that "Dec 31" is merely a database error on IGN's end. Sceeegt (talk) 19:19, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

I would generally view the database reliability of video game review websites different from editorial text. IgelRM (talk) 20:36, 29 September 2024 (UTC)