Wikipedia talk:Requests for permissions/Archive 5

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Page for Kathryn (Kathy) L. Smithen

I would appreciate help in getting my page published. I am new to this system and unsure of what I'm doing. Please assist. I think there is public interest in the page going public. Not sure how to upload a photograph to go with it. Please advise. Kathryn L. Smithen

Kathy Smithen (talk) 03:48, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Not done: Hi Kathryn, TomStar81 has left some general information at your talk page.

This talk page is for discussing the Wikipedia:Requests for permissions project page. Regards, Celestra (talk) 04:23, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately this is not the venue for requesting page edits or page creations. I will shortly providing you with some help on your talk page. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:25, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2014

hi i would like permmission to use meterial about emmanuel lasker, chess player for my BOOK, thank you david dowson 90.194.101.218 (talk) 19:33, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

• Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Are you requesting to have an edit made to this article for you or are you inquiring if it is okay to use the material on this page for your own publication? If it is the first, please respond with a clear change x to y or please add this to that type request. If it is the latter, please read Wikipedia:Contact us - Licensing. Technical 13 (talk) 19:49, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Total number

Having read the individual pages linked from WP:PERM, I wondered is there an overall head count of how many editors have been granted one or more of these permissions? Green Giant (talk) 06:26, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

As far as I know:

• Currently, there are 1,411 administrators and 6,034 reviewers (7,445 in total) on the English Wikipedia.
• There are currently 1,411 administrators and 4,996 rollbackers (6,407 total)
• There are currently 3,049 autopatrolled users, which makes the total number of users with this permission 4,468 (the rest are administrators).
• There are currently 369 file mover users, which makes the total number of users with this permission 1,786 (the rest are administrators).
• There are currently 125 users who have the account creator flag. The rest are administrators.
• There are currently 71 template editors and 1,411 administrators (1,482 total).
• All users are autoconfirmed after 4 days and 10 edits. Fewer than around 5% of requests for early confirmation are granted.

Admins are generally very conservative about according additional user rights. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:10, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the stats Kudpung, much obliged. Green Giant (talk) 12:33, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2014

Please Add that Russell Wilson is the second African American to win a super bowl. http://thecincinnatiherald.com/news/2014/jan/30/super-bowl-qb-russell-wilson-born-cincinnati/ Isaiah2k11 (talk) 05:39, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Wikipedia:Requests for permissions. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. LittleMountain5 05:59, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

What is the point of the Confirmed request page?

Looking at the archive history, it appears that the page to request Confirmed permission can safely be removed. 99.9% of the requests are denied. Those few that are granted, are granted for experienced editors (e.g. public doppelganger account) who know how to contact an administrator to make a request anyway, or who could easily wait the required 4 days. Even if I created such a legitimate account for myself, it does me no harm to confirm it the usual way.

This page is really a waste of administrator time.

I suggest that we replace this page with a notification to all users that confirmation requires 10 edits and 4 days, period. ~Amatulić (talk) 00:26, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

What about legitimate alternative accounts? Jackmcbarn (talk) 01:43, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

As Amatulić said (re doppelganger accounts) they could ask an admin (on the admin's talk page), use {{admin help}} on the new account's talk page or post at AN. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 04:54, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

What about people who want to create books? They need confirmed status as well, and they're usually new enough that they won't know to go to an admins page. We're better off with a centralized place that at least follows certain protocol (i.e. the aforementioned legitimate alternate account still requires its holder to pop by and post confirming that it's theirs). RFPC also gives us the opportunity to educate selectively and in a targetted manner - if a user drops by to ask for confirmed to upload an image, the responder is SUPPOSED to go by their page and drop a {{Welcome-image}} on their talkpage. If they drop by because they want to edit a topic that they have COI with, they drop {{Welcome-COI}}...and so on. This allows us (hopefully) to nip certain unwelcome behaviours in the bud, and start a new editor on the right path. DP 09:58, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

If you want to create a book, by the time you're done editing that book in your sandbox, you will have more than enough edits and time elapsed to be autoconfirmed. That is not a good argument.

Most users who have made any contribution at all will get a welcome message anyway, so that isn't a good argument either. I've seen welcome messages appear before users make any edits.

My point is that this confirmation request page is a waste of time. It wastes the user's time with requests that are almost 100% guaranteed to be denied, and it wastes administrators time because ~0% of the requests are legitimate.

The alternative I offered is to simply have a page saying that confirmation requests will not be granted, and anyone with a legitimate alternative account should contact an administrator, the same way people already do for rollback. Instructions on uploading images should also be included, as well as a recommendation that new users should work on draft articles in their sandbox, or at WP:AFC, neither of which require confirmation. In all cases, they will get auto-confirmed if they follow those instructions.

Another alternative is to draft an army of entrusted users to monitor pages like this, and empower them to deny requests. We've experimented with this, with some success, on admin pages like MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist. The 0.001% of legitimate confirmation requests can be forwarded to an administrator for action. ~Amatulić (talk) 20:41, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

• I think the first question we need to answer is: whether the existence of a process whereby a non-confirmed editor can request the action be performed by someone else is sufficient grounds to reject requests for confirmed. So, I want to upload a file, I'm not confirmed; I can request confirmed, and upload the file myself, consistent with the 3rd pillar, or I can go to WP:FFU and request someone else do it. On the one hand, requiring FFU is not entirely consistent with the pillar, but on the other, it will avoid the upload of many files that would either be copyright violations, or should be at commons instead. Is requesting a semi-protected edit as good as getting the permission to make it yourself? Is requesting a move as good as getting the permission and being able to do it yourself? Only after answering that question should we get to how we deal with all the currently rejected requests. The permission description at the top suggests it may be granted for those reasons, so a first step could be making it clearer in what circumstances we do actually grant it. So, for instance if we are never going to grant confirmed for file uploads by new contributors, absent really peculiar circumstances, I don't see why non-admins couldn't direct them to commons/FFU as appropriate. Monty₈₄₅ 21:22, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Non-admins currently do direct them to FFU - we have set templates that all monitors should use, when appropriate. Admins then do grant the ones that need it - even though I monitor that page, I have been poked to act once or twice DP 21:38, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2014

27.131.14.29 (talk) 09:28, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

27.131.14.29 is a vnadalism-only account. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:21, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

• Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. There is no request here. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 16:24, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Backlog

This page (WP:PERM/A) has backlog since 7 days apparently because of non-functionality of tools, however it is working now. It requires attention of some willing administrator. Anupmehra -Let's talk! 14:13, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 March 2014

I have been editing now for 3 Months. I am requesting to be a reviewer because I am really enjoying being an editor. I can see myself doing this for a while and have a great understanding of what is needed to do the job. Garymarsh (talk) 17:54, 30 March 2014 (UTC

No semi-protected edit has been requested here, You have made 2 edits today since your account was made today, and that is not enough to grant the reviewer right. This is not the right place to ask for the permission either. GB fan 18:08, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

How many edits do I need?

I was just wondering how many edits I need before I can become a Wikipedia Reviewer. Thanks!Football1607 (talk) 16:06, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

There's no set number, because it's based on the quality of the edits: see here ES&L 16:42, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

_{Non-admin comment} Actually, the AfC people recently set up a new set of guidelines (here, scroll to the second green box) that said at least 90 days and 500 article namespace edits. Supernerd11 :D Firemind ^_^ Pokedex 20:31, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

@Supernerd11: There's two kinds of reviewers. That's not the kind of reviewer that you request here. Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:40, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Oh, okay. Is this type of reviewer the kind that covers the "pending changes" I see sometimes on my watchlist? Supernerd11 :D Firemind ^_^ Pokedex 21:47, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Obviously, yes DP 23:58, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2014

Escalane (talk) 11:59, 9 April 2014 (UTC) Please can confirm my a count so I can upload my profile

This is not the place to request permissions. Nevertheless, you do not need permissions to edit your user page which is where you can create your "profile" as per WP:UP. Remember, however, we're an encyclopedia, not Facebook ES&L 12:36, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2014

OMNIS EMPURIOS (all fire) 18:42, 18 April 2014 (UTC) Can you fix the template of the Curse of the Spawn page? It needs a comic book template and it has some weird one. OMNIS EMPURIOS (all fire) 18:42, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Wikipedia:Requests for permissions. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. Jackmcbarn (talk) 18:48, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

RFPC Template addition

As we seem to have had a bunch of IP's request Confirmed status, I've gone ahead and added a standard reply to the {{RFPC}} template:

use: {{subst:RFPC|ip}}

gives you::

 Not done – Anonymous editors cannot be granted additional privileges. Although not formally needed to edit Wikipedia, there are many benefits to creating an account.

Feel free to change the wording, but I found it succinct, and includes some of the "custom" replies that IP's have been given recently the panda ɛˢˡ” 12:00, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 June 2014

I would like to create a page for my father Murv Jacob!! He is a well knoown artist and writer. How do I create a page for him Can I have my account confirmed so I can create the page? I was going to work on it for him this weekend but this four day rule kinda messes up my plans. Thanks you ~ Holly Jacob Hollyelizabethstar (talk) 17:10, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Wikipedia:Requests for permissions. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 17:57, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Just a question

I assure you that I will wait however long it takes for my competency to be judged; however, I am slightly confused as to how you all do this. Do you just do the easier ones first then the harder ones later? I was skipped over twice, so I just think it would be helpful if we could add this to the page on the subject (possibly). Thanks for taking the time. I don't want to seem like I am impatient or anything; I'm just curious, that's all. Dustin (talk) 22:28, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

I would say yes, the "easier" requests do often get answered more quickly and I admit that I have done this myself; that being said, the easier requests receive no less scrutiny. In the meantime, I've fulfilled your request. Acalamari 22:40, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I guess that makes sense. If I were in your position, I bet I would do the same thing. Thanks for giving me a hasty response! Dustin (talk) 22:59, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Quick question

Hello, I was wondering what all is involved in being a reviewer and what qualifications one needs? I've noticed in the past, when I would make a golf article, it would be reviewed by someone, but I never knew what that meant. Johnsmith2116 (talk) 19:33, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

The reviewer right - which is what this page covers - is concerned with checking edits to pages that are subject to pending changes, such as these. You're probably thinking of pages created through the Article wizard process, which need to be reviewed according to the AFC rules before being passed for mainspace. This is a completely different kind of reviewing. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:03, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank for your response. Well, apparently I was thinking of the actual being a reviewer (now that I know the difference). Occasionally, I see when certain articles (such as the Mike Tyson page) are pending review on edits waiting, and I had wondered about that. Is there a specific qualification that someone on Wikipedia needs to meet to be a reviewer? Johnsmith2116 (talk) 20:12, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

• Becoming a reviewer and generally at least 3-6 months of steady constructive editing are needed. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 20:16, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. Is there a specific place where I find out about possibly becoming a reviewer? I can be on Wikipedia for an hour a day, maybe more on the weekend, if it's a certain amount of time needed. I've been editing mostly golf-related pages for nearly two years. Once in a great while, I find an article about a particular article about a golfer (Rory McIlroy or Adam Scott, for example) and see that the latest edit is vandalistic in nature, and I try to correct it as soon as possible. My typical edits though tend to be the week-to-week entries for the latest winners of the different golf tours. Johnsmith2116 (talk) 20:37, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

• To be honest, if you edit constructively for six months and don't get involved in any drama, it's possible an admin will come to you an ask you if you want it. Otherwise, at that time, you can just post a request on WP:PERM (you should understand how to do that by then). Happy editing! — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 20:42, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

• Incidentally, it's highly likely that the messages you see about your pages being "reviewed", are connected with WP:New page patrol, which has little or nothing to do with either Articles for Creation nor the reviewer user right. It's a regular source of confusion. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:46, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Demiurge1000, thanks. Is there a way to request to do new page patrol? Or is it something that can't be requested? Johnsmith2116 (talk) 22:56, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

There's no separate right for new page patrol, though I think it was proposed at some stage. I think you just read the instructions there carefully, and away you go. You might like to ask an experienced patroller to check your work after you've done a hundred or so. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 15:45, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Correction needed to error message

Someone recently posted a confirmation request, saying "When I try to upload an image, I'm told I have not been autoconfirmed."

It occurs to me that this message might be why we get so many requests for confirmation from people who cannot upload images: because they are being told that confirmation is the solution to their problem without being informed of anything else.

If that error message (and I don't know what it is) can be modified to include all the ways an image can be contributed, similar to the big box at the top of the project page here, or similar to the standard boilerplate response {{RFPC|ndf}} that we slap onto all such requests, then maybe the number of requests received on this page would decrease significantly. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:06, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

It's MediaWiki:Permissionserrorstext-withaction for logged in users and MediaWiki:Uploadnologintext for IPs. I'm not sure how we can incorporate a message about Wikipedia:Files for upload (as is in Uploadnologintext) into Permissionserrorstext-withaction. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:40, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

It looks like MediaWiki:Permissionserrorstext-withaction substitutes a canned reason from some other source, which hopefully isn't hard-coded in the software. Even if it is, the 'reason' substitution could still be changed, with a request to the maintainers of the source. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:36, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

I posted a note at MediaWiki_talk:Permissionserrors#Correction needed. Hopefully someone monitoring that page will respond. ~Amatulić (talk) 19:26, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

I fixed it last week, by the way. It wasn't related to mediawiki at all the panda ɛˢˡ” 11:18, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2014

I want to insert Mr. Neville Tuli's officially verified image onto his page. Also, reference no. 8 and 12 should have text but they are not appearing correctly on the page. Osianama (talk) 06:41, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

• Please return to the talkpage of that article ad discuss these changes. Once you have obtained WP:CONSENSUS for these edits, respected our image use policy, then make this request there on that talkpage the panda ₯’ 08:56, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Editnotice created

In view of recent misplaced requests for permissions, I've created Template:Editnotices/Page/Wikipedia talk:Requests for permissions. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:36, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit requests on 30 June 2014

Naresh Krishna Raja (talk) 02:41, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

You may not request these permissions while you are a new user. — xaosflux ^Talk 03:10, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2014 Naresh Krishna Raja (talk) 02:42, 30 June 2014 (UTC) You may not request these permissions while you are a new user. — xaosflux Talk 03:10, 30 June 2014 (UTC) Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2014 Naresh Krishna Raja (talk) 02:49, 30 June 2014 (UTC) You may not request these permissions while you are a new user. — xaosflux Talk 03:10, 30 June 2014 (UTC) Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2014 Naresh Krishna Raja (talk) 03:06, 30 June 2014 (UTC) You may not request these permissions while you are a new user. — xaosflux Talk 03:10, 30 June 2014 (UTC) Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2014 Naresh Krishna Raja (talk) 03:07, 30 June 2014 (UTC) You may not request these permissions while you are a new user. — xaosflux Talk 03:10, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2014

Brighton Wiseman (talk) 11:03, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Please note that the account creator permission will not be given to new users; it is only given to those editors who meet certain criteria as detailed at WP:ACCRIGHT. NiciVampireHeart 11:34, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Reducing the workload

The number of obviously-reject-able requests for "Confirmed," "Autopatrolled," and "Rollback," could be greatly reduced by putting a small paragraph at the top reminding editors of who will and won't be given these rights. Here is a draft:

draft text for the top sections of 3 low-level user-rights

Confirmed The "confirmed" user-right is almost never given out to editors with accounts less than 96 hours old or who have less than 10 edits. If your account is well over 4 days old and you've had 10 or more non-deleted edits for at least the last day, there may be a technical reason why your account is not auto-confirmed or that it is auto-confirmed one day but not the next. You you may ask for the confirmed user-right. You may also ask if you can demonstrate experience on another Wikimedia project and you can state a need to do things that can't wait for your account to become auto-confirmed. Autopatrolled The autopatrolled user-right will prevent new pages you create from showing up in the list of new pages seen by new-page patrollers. Having your newly-created articles on a list for new-page patrolled is generally a good thing. Please do not to ask for this right unless you are frequently creating new articles (not redirects) AND your most recent few dozen articles have not required cleanup by others after your initial edits. Rollback The rollback right is a "convenience right." It makes it slightly easier for you to undo all of the most-recent editor's edits in a single click instead of using multiple steps. Please do not ask for this user-right unless the last few months of your edit history shows that you generally use good judgment when editing, particularly when undoing others' recent edits.

davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 22:40, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

• I support the proposal for Confirmed and Rollback, but oppose it as worded for Autopatrolled. The proposed wording is too article focused and per other relatively recent discussions, this is inappropriate. ALL new pages show up in the NPP queue, even templates, modules, and wikiproject pages. As such, there needs to be an allowance for people who create hundreds (or thousands) of new templates, modules, etc. If someone wants to propose that only articles show up in the NPP queue, and there is community consensus, I'd be happy to assist with the creation of the Bugzilla ticket to make that technically possible; but, until this is done, I can't support any "NPP is article only" proposals. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 22:53, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

• I cannot support the wording for Confirmed - it doesn't come close to covering all the reasons for it, and trying to cover the all would be WP:BEANS the panda ₯’ 22:58, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Removal of permissions for inactive indef blocked users (2014)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I would like to re-examine the current consensus for making a change to the 2012 discussion related to this topic, though with narrower scope.

I propose that a process for removing permissions for indefinite blocked users that are no longer active with the project (greater than a year without any logged activity) be implemented, similar to the process at Wikipedia:Administrators#Procedural_removal_for_inactive_administrators.

I am not suggesting making a change to the ability to remove any access for-cause.

Such removal would be procedural, and would not prevent the user from requesting permissions again should they even become unblocked and return to the project.

The scope of this removal would include all rights that are both able to be added and removed by administrators.

Discussion

I Support this change as nominator, cleanup is easy to do and re-adding such permissions are easy should the need arise. In general, users that have been blocked in excess of a year have either retired or have been blocked for being disruptive to the project. — xaosflux ^Talk 16:26, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Note Prior to bringing this up, I did remove some rights that appeared to be unused--I got a talk note about it today and reverted my last change and brought it here to see what the consensus is. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:22, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I would also support removing these flags from any inactive user, not just indef blocked, please feel free to discuss below. Same rational that it would be very swift to restore if they return and still require; exceptions for (WMF) staff. — xaosflux ^Talk 16:48, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Does it really matter? If they're blocked, they can't use the permissions anyway. We have enough real work to be doing without making more unnecessary work. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:29, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I have the same question as HJ Mitchell. Is there any harm a blocked user can do if the permissions are left? I don't know of any, and there's no need to create yet another admin backlog unless there's a benefit to doing it. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 16:32, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm not suggesting that the work would be required, just that it would be allowed. As with all administrative tasks, mopping can be done anywhere, "you should mop over here instead" is not a directive. — xaosflux ^Talk 16:35, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

This really strikes me as a request to create a procedure, purely for the sake of having a procedure... when there is no need for a procedure in the first place. Blueboar (talk) 17:28, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

hmm, I stumbled on this when I saw the change to user:OrangeMarlin. The way he was hounded off of wp was a disgrace. His response to the admin indef given him 12 Dec 2011 to offset the two other parties' arbcomm-directed blocks was to retire. He hasn't been back except to clean out his talk page. This smacks of slamming the door "and stay out", rather than anything that would welcome him back should he choose to forgive the abuse he received. LeadSongDog come howl! 17:51, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

The procedure is literally two clicks; I'm simply trying to determine if consensus supports this to be allowable; I had assumed that a rule wouldn't be needed and that admin-discretion would be sufficient, though the prior discussion was mentioned and I wanted to poll the current community consensus. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:22, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Lots of things are "allowed"... not all of them are good ideas. Blueboar (talk) 18:45, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

• Full Support for the removal of any advanced userright of an editor that has been inactive for more than a year. These accounts are more likely to be unnoticed if hacked and may pose a threat to the wiki if the rights granted are misused. This is especially true for userrights such as  Account creator or  Template editor where a user can override the titleblacklist or create a great deal of disruption in a very short amount of time. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 19:13, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Those two userrights, like sysop, already have provisions for removal for inactivity. However, I see no convincing reason why this should apply to other userrights with far less potential for disruption. After all, we do want to encourage experienced / previously active editors to return. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:20, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I suspect that getting past the part about having a non-expiring block would be the hurdle to returning, not these flags. — xaosflux ^Talk 22:33, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose these are blocked accounts, we don't need to fiddle with them. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 20:53, 16 June 2014 (UTC).
  
• Support - Per the nom and Technical 13, on the basis that, During everyday normal navigation of the project, the navigator happens to notice an active/inactive user has an advanced flag (like Account creator or Template editor) and has never been used or used once or twice shortly after receiving the flag, that it is allowed to be removed at the discretion of the navigator. this is a major pet-peeve at RfA, "does the applicant have a need for the tools", I don't see any difference here, I am not referring to blocked accounts, although I wouldn't be against that either. Mlpearc (open channel) 21:26, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

• My biggest issue with blocked users keeping "earned" rights is that it skews the {{NUMINGROUP:groupname}} magic words not to mention that those are privileges for trusted editors that are HERE and those who can't be trusted at the moment (and earned themselves a block), shouldn't have those rights.... — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 21:35, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. Mlpearc (open channel) 21:44, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

• I'm not a fan of the idea, mainly because I don't think it's worth the effort, but if anyone wants to take the time to remove rollbacker, reviewer, etc. from blocked accounts they should be allowed to; however, I don't think it's necessary to remove these rights from users who are simply inactive but in otherwise good standing. These editors can return at anytime and I see no point in giving admins (and the inactive users when they return) extra work for no reason; as Nikkimaria said above, template editor and account creator have time limits for inactivity, anyway, so they're not a problem. Acalamari 21:55, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm under the impression that it's not a requirement or a backlog to be done, it's "if you see it change it". Mlpearc (open channel) 22:05, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Hmm... well first of all, I do think this is process for the sake of process, which is not a good precedent and has done us harm in the past. But then again, not having specific guidelines spelled out in policy has also caused us some damage, with people more or less going by their own rules in the absence of specific regulations. The removal of advanced permissions from indefinitely blocked accounts should probably be based more on the activities of the user in question; for example, if they were blocked for persistent edit warring, it would stand to reason that they cannot be trusted with rollback. If they were indefinitely blocked for massive copyright violations, autopatrolled probably wouldn't be a suitable flag for them. Those are generally taken away at the time of abuse, not long after the fact. On balance, I find myself in greater agreement with HJ Mitchell than Technical 13; advanced permissions are irrelevant when the account is blocked, and an editor's status within the community is not determined by the flags bestowed on their account. Kurtis ^(talk) 01:35, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

My only point, Kurtis, is that having blocked users with rollback skews {{NUMBERINGROUP:rollbacker}} by at least 23 and {{NUMBERINGROUP:reviewer}} by at least 29 (visit https://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers/rollbacker&limit=5000 or https://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers/reviewer&limit=5000 and in the JavaScript console [ctrl+⇧ Shift+k in Firefox] type $('div#mw-content-text ul li:not(:contains("(blocked)"))').remove(); to see the lists). — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 01:58, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

OK, that makes more sense. Nevertheless, I'm still not sure what inconvenience this would cause in Wikipedia's day-to-day functionings. Kurtis ^(talk) 02:03, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

None. There are 6,865 rollbackers and 8,029 reviewers, so a margin of 20-odd doesn't make much difference. I'd wager there are easily 200-odd who make insufficient use of the tools for T13's tastes. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 10:55, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

I was given the reviewer right in June 2010, exactly sixteen months before I became an admin. In that sixteen months, I only ever used the reviewer right once, and nobody complained about non-use; indeed, in the first three years of me having that right, I used it a total of six times. Not very often. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:23, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

• I completely oppose this idea. We have removal procedures for the non-use or abuse of powerful user rights as such users are able to override blocks and can do considerable damage in a very short period of time. (the dreaded "rogue admin" scenario) A "rank and file" user who is blocked can't do that, they can't use any of their permissions outside of their own talk page. Summarrily removing userrights without cause strikes me as vindictive and pointless. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:49, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Beeblebrox you don't consider the power to mass rollback hundreds of edits in a very short period of time to be a "powerful" userright? I certainly do. The only userright I wouldn't consider overly powerful in a way that could be misused on a hacked account might be reviewer, but if all the rest are going to have rights pulled, then reviewer should too for consistency's sake if not because it is skewing the core stats generation for the number of people with the userright that can actively help someone else without that right. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 00:16, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

First of all, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that this concern with the stats is not something the vast majority of users are worried about. As for the awesome power of rollback, anyone can have that without needing to ask permission by simply turning on Twinkle, and they still can't use it while they are blocked anyway.

And actual cases of "hacked accounts" are incredibly rare so I don't think we should be making policy based on fear of that contingency. In the event that there is an actual compromised account, blocking is immediate and permanent, so the minute it is detected user rights are by definition no longer an issue. This is a non-problem that does not require a solution. Run-of-the-mill user rights should only be removed if they have been abused, not as a punitive measure when blocking for something unrelated. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:43, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. There is nothing preventing an administrator from stripping user rights at the time of a block, for the purpose of avoiding skewed statistics for such rights. This would be appropriate for blocked accounts that would never have any chance of being unblocked (established sockpuppets and obvious WP:NOTHERE accounts). Even if there was a community consensus that inactive blocked accounts be stripped of rights, this is a task that can easily be performed by a bot if anyone cares to write one. No need to burden administrators further with unnecessary pointless work. ~Amatulić (talk) 21:39, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose, solution in search of a problem. Though if an admin wants to unilaterally remove permissions from a banned user, they should be free to do so. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 23:51, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
• Fully Support (Remove permissions) - If an account is indefinitely blocked, is likely never going to be used, then there is no reason as to why the userights should be left as is. Blocking someone just takes a few seconds and so does this thing. Any user or admin can find blocked users who currently hold userrights at Wikipedia:Database reports/Blocked users in user groups. And in any case if an editor returns and is unblocked, the removed permissions can be restored on a case by case basis after evaluation by the reviewing admin. No big deal. TheGeneralUser (talk) 00:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

repeat applicants

I haven't been active here forth elast several months, but have been poking my head back in a bit recently. What i am seeing is a lot of users who request rollback or reviewer (or both), get told no because they are inexperienced, then go on an editing frenzy in a rather transparent attempt to rack up the right numbers, followed by new requests. This is not a good trend asi ti encourages users to see these rights as a "level up" as if this were a video game. Now, putting a time limit on re-application may cause a similar effect, making users believe if they just wait the mere passage of time is enough. The message they should be getting is that rollback/reviewer is easy to get if they just do some good article work. So, I guess I'm asking if anyone else sees this as a problem and if they have any ideas what me might do to curb it. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:21, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

I have seen this also. There are a few users who just come in every few days to request especially rollback and reviewer. I used to be like this. I have grown out of it though. A² 20:31, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

• The problem is there is no really good way to deal with the problem. Whats the difference between the editor who responds by patrolling recent changes 5 hours a day for 4 days, racking up 1-2k edits, and the other editor who spends 2 hours a week, and comes back in 10 weeks with the same number of edits. They have spent the same time on wikipedia, and they have pumped out the same number of edits. So telling someone to come back in a month or two doesn't really do anything to ensure they are any better than someone who puts some time in and returns the next week. Obviously using edit count as proxi for suitability is what your lamenting. So is there something different we could do? What about coming up with a way to quiz them on policy? (maybe have a threshold after which the quiz isn't mandatory) The number of people who deliberately seek out permissions with the intent to use them inappropriately is very low. So really, we should care almost exclusively whether the person is competent to use the tool, and very little whether they are trustworthy. Rollback doesn't even let you disrupt Wikipedia much more effectively than Twinkle, and Reviewer, with PC2 banned, could at most be used to abusively reject IP edits, but you can just revert them anyway. We don't get much pagemove vandalism, so filemoving shouldn't be a big issue either, and that covers the frequently requested, frequently denied ones. Autopatrolled already has clear guidelines that are hard to spam to meet, and template editor receives much more meaningful review. Monty₈₄₅ 02:46, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't know if a quiz is the best idea... A² 05:16, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I do agree that the percentage of bad-faith requests is vanishingly low. That's not really what I'm getting at, it's users who rack up edits, any edits, in the hope that if their numbers are better they will just be granted the right automatically. This is often an issue with very young users who don't get that this is not supposed to work like a video game, where points are all that matters. If it were that simple we could have a bot handle all these requests.

After some thought about this I wonder if the problem isn't in our replies to these type of requests. I'm primarily concerned with Rollback and Reviewer. Both of these are tools for keeping vandalism out of articles. Instead of just saying "not enough edits" should we not be telling applicants to manually revert vandalism and make some AIV reports to demonstrate that they are capable of distinguishing bad-faith edits from other types of edits? That level of clarity should deal with the issue. If they don't do it, they aren't interested in vandal fighting and didn't need the right to begin with. If they do do it, it should be easy to tell if they are able to tell the difference between vandalism and other edits that may be problematic but were made in good faith. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:43, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Having jumped in on the last two Rollback requests and denying them, I think as Beeblebrox said, we can look at the clues given to us to see if they 1) truly have a need for the tools 2) are interested in the work 3) are competent enough to do the work. When I looked through those reuqests, I took the last 500 edits, and found everything I needed there. But this tool is for clear vandalism, not reverting good faith requests. I feel our granting of the tool should fall with editors doing that. We should revamp the template too, I really don't see the proper use for it, but then again, that's me jumping in brand new as an outsider. -- DQ (ʞlɐʇ) 03:46, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Pages outside mainspace

The guideline for autopatroller refers to “articles”, but does the creation of pages in the Talk: and User talk: namespaces add to the NPP workload? Although I have a couple of ideas for articles, I haven’t actually written any yet, and I’m a champion procrastinator. OTOH, when I undo poor edits from new users that I notice in my watchlist, I usually leave a (low-level or welcome-variant) UW template, after which I see the red exclamation mark beside the entry. Is this type of ‘maintenance’ activity, along with non-article page creations in Help:, File: &c., generally worth auto-patrolling?—Odysseus1479 04:55, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

All page creations, whatever the namespace, are added to Special:NewPages but by default that page only lists those in article space. To see all pages, go to the "Namespace" drop-down and select "all", then click Go. This produces a much longer list. As usual, the yellow ones are unpatrolled. When I visit a talk page that exists but is not yet patrolled, and at least one of the edits was useful (starting a discussion, sending a templated warning, adding a WikiProject banner), I normally mark it as patrolled. But if the sole content is rubbish like "djkvbdfjkvbjfvkdfb", I don't patrol it but instead mark it {{db-test}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:05, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Update the "add request" link

The "add request" and "view request" links need to be updated; they still point to the old pagename, for which reason edits like this are still happening. I would update the links myself but I am not sure of all of the things that need to be moved (e.g. if seems a preload page needs to be renamed; what else?), and don't want to make things worse by only updating part of the infrastructure. -sche (talk) 20:02, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

collapsed Pending Archive sections

I added some collapsed sections pending archival, not sure if the page is just very busy right now and/or if the archive bot has stalled. Please feel free to remove once the page gets back to a normal size. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:44, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Looks like the bot woke up, I removed all these as they were hiding the whole page now. — xaosflux ^Talk 13:56, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2014

Soniyasingh09 (talk) 11:11, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

 Not done as you have made no request
Please note that, as stated above "This is not the place to request a user permission", so you are possibly in the wrong place - Arjayay (talk) 11:15, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 30 September 2014

I have noticed that people in the group founder, so I ask a administrator to add the following:

or at User talk:Jimbo wales after Steward requests/permissions but before . . Thanks.

Wikipedian 2 (talk) 06:43, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Not done: Seeing as only one user (two users?) can possibly have the founder right, I don't think it makes sense to list it at requests for permissions. We didn't even give the right to Larry Sanger, so I doubt we'll be handing it out to anyone else... — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 06:59, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

That's not what I mean: what I mean is that it could also be listed for people with the founder right to remove breaucrat access NOT a RFP for founder right. Thanks for your understanding. 09:15, 7 October 2014 (UTC)Wikipedian 2 (talk)

 Not done There are all sorts of out-of-process ways one could request this (e.g. to a WMF staff user, a system admin, etc), but steward requests is the standard process; this section may need some updating--but anyone with those advanced permissions knows how to deal with them already. — xaosflux ^Talk 11:31, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Pending changes reviewer?

I noticed that the "reviewer" user right is now the "pending changes reviewer" right. What other reviewer rights are there besides that, for the reviewer right to need to be distinguished? I'm just wondering about this; I am not looking to seek these "other reviewer rights". Epicgenius (talk) 18:38, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

That is it, the group was recently renamed to make it clear what it was about, perhaps "pending changes acceptor" would have been more accurate. — xaosflux ^Talk 19:32, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: There are no other "reviewer rights". The problem was ambiguity. There are something like four (or more) unrelated processes on Wikipedia, all termed "reviewing", and some people who wished to work in, say, Articles for Creation Review, were under the impression that they needed to request the WP:REVIEWER right in order to do that. See Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 115#Change the name of reviewers to "Pending changes reviewer"; Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab)/Archive 14#Distinguishing between New Pages Patrol reviews and AfC reviews; Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Distinguishing between New Pages Patrol reviews and AfC reviews. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:08, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply, Redrose64. I'd thought there were some different types of reviewers. Apparently it's just internal confusion. (Thank you too, xaosflux. I agree, maybe the "pending changes reviewer" label isn't as correct, either, because one can technically "review" - meaning "examine" in this sense - the change, without being a pending changes reviewer.) Epicgenius (talk) 20:21, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Was on a break when this change was made, but I for one think it is a good move as it should help eliminate newbie confusion about exactly what this is. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:50, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2014

change 10 years old to 8 years old 96.52.182.53 (talk) 23:15, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi. Looks like you may be a bit lost. This is the page for discussion of permissions requests. You need to post this to the talk page of the article you would like to change. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:06, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 26 October 2014

On Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Reviewer, could all of the pending requests be cleared from the page? Apparently, this page is no longer valid, so requests should not be posted there. If the requests are removed, the page should appear as this:

#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Pending changes reviewer]] {{R from move}} {{R to project}} {{R to subpage}} {{R fully protected}}

...Thanks! (This request also includes a request to add some Rcats.)

Steel1943 (talk) 03:23, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Done — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 13:02, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 4 November 2014

Pawan Tripathi (talk) 07:17, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. ~ Matthewrbowker ^{Poke me} 07:44, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

RfC: Should WP:PERM take advantage of User:ClueBot III or User:Equazcion/OneClickArchiver?

I've noticed that on a few occasions the {{Admin dashboard}} has had page size transclusion issues, and I think that these could be greatly reduced by taking advantage of ClueBot III's ability to archive discussions that are already closed (I'll not that it is used on this very talk page). Another benefit of this is that it would allow User:Equazcion/OneClickArchiver (or more specifically, the new and improved version waiting to be incorporated into the main version (User:Technical 13/SandBox/OneClickArchiver.js)) to be used for on the fly archiving when the dashboards are hitting page size limits for a quick fix. Thanks for any consideration on this. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 05:35, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

The transcluded PERM subpages are already being archived by User:KingpinBot; does it just need some tweaking? — xaosflux ^Talk 18:07, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

• There are some sections (ie: Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions/Pending_changes_reviewer#User:Possum) that have been marked as done for almost 4 weeks now, and there are many that where marked as done over a week ago. I see no reason that the sections marked as "done" explicitly should be kept on the page for more than 24 hours (or 3 days max) as the user that received the additional group to their rights would have gotten a notification through the system. Anyone that would know to look at the PERM page to object to a user being granted certain rights should be experienced enough to know to look at the archives if it has been longer than that in most cases I would think. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 18:53, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

It might have something to do with:

Run successful - last run time 24/08/2015 13:00

Bot disabled - last attempted run time 24/08/2015 13:00:09

:/ — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 19:05, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

We certainly could use a different system, but need to get the old one to stop first so they don't collide, @Kingpin13: - any thoughts? — xaosflux ^Talk 14:53, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• Apparently Equazcion has retired, and as such, he's "redirected" his script to mine and I've taken over maintenance. Xaosflux, I can't think of anything it would hurt by having the archiving systems overlap. Is there something you have in mind that could be a problem I'm not thinking of? Thanks. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 15:49, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

As far as one-click types go, nope; I'm just referring to bot managed. — xaosflux ^Talk 16:12, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• I should be able to use the {{Archive basics}} to make the pages one-click compatible, I just need to look at what the archival structure is suppose to be. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 17:36, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Ahh, Xaosflux, I now understand what you are saying. KingpinBot archives them based on status (approved or not approved) and cluebot wouldn't do that, at least not without some help from Cobi (the maintainer) to tweak stuffs... It's going to require me to to some tweaking to make it so that OCA is usable as well for the same reason unless it is decided to do away with the whole separate categorized archives method... Should this be posted on {{CENT}} to get some more input or a note put on WP:AN maybe? Thanks for your help. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 18:19, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

We don't really need a formal RFC type discussion on this, it is a completely non-controversial task in that noone opposes having an archive; if one set of archiving tools is more reliable than another for this set of pages, discussion on this page is all that is needed to swap / augment. This page, or at least one of its subpages, would make a good test for one-click archive options as well. — xaosflux ^Talk 19:36, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• I wasn't suggesting a formal "30 days and closed by uninvolved" RfC, just wondering if there should be a short note on AN to see if anyone else has any feedback on whether or not it should be continued to be archived by KpBot in the current format splitting the approved from declined (which I think is a bad idea as it means that "other" parties that may have been following a certain request have to look in two places instead of one to find the result if it wasn't the result they expected) or if we should configure CBot to archive it all on one archive page. I'll need to know this before I make a special module for OCA to archive these discussions (if it is the first option, it may require two clicks to archive correctly each time). — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 20:20, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• Oh sure, an in-link from AN to this thread would be good to get some more eyes on this-I would like to hear from Kingpin too (already pinged) — xaosflux ^Talk 20:36, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

 Done — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 20:57, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• Let's not make a big fuss about this proposal because all that will be achieved by inviting a broader community will be no consensus at all. The issue only really concerns the admins who patrol the PERM requests and who accord or decline them, and any bots that do the archiving. There is quite a small group of admins who work here and they do so fairly regularly. Whatever solutions the bot handlers reach, what we need to bear in mind are :

1. Are we 100% certain that users who receive the additional group to their rights are given a notification through the system. AFAIK, the recommendation is that they check back at PERM (or check their rights log).
2. Are we 100% certain that users who do not receive the additional group to their rights are given a notification through the system. AFAIK, the recommendation is that they check back at PERM (admins are not obliged to inform them).
3. I think it appropriate to archive all admin decisions after seven (7) days in order to give 'weekend Wikipedians' a chance to log in.
4. IMO, requests not yet handled by an admin should ideally be left permanently open until adressed. Exception: if NACd as 'not done' by a truly competent user such as Armbrust who has been doing it for years. Note: we do not want to invite a plethora of other NAO/NAC to these pages from admin wannabes - the unnecessary 'clerking' is bad enough already.

--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:48, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

KingpinBot was on Christmas holiday, sorry. Running again now. As far as problems with if the bot does die for good, I can always be contacted via email and make the source code available to someone else to run it (clearly I'm not particularly active myself these days). @Technical 13: As far as the problem of having to look in multiple places for an archived discussion if you don't know the result, I made a search box at Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Archive a while ago specifically to deal with this problem. - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 19:29, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

• Kingpin13 where is KpBot located? If it's on toollabs or someplace I can access, I would be happy to push the restart button when needed. wikitech:User:Technical 13 — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 20:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

• @Kingpin13:, @Technical 13:, @Armbrust:: I think we need to take a look at my questions above which no one has taken the trouble to address. Also, the archiving is still too fast, we have users reposting their declined requests within two days. All declined requests should preferably only be archived after 7 days. And thank you , Armbrust, for stepping into the breach and doing what you have been doing for years so much better than a bot. We ae getting to the stage on Wikipedia where in many cases we are placing too much reliance on bots. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:13, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

  The control for how long the bot waits before archiving is at User:KingpinBot/wait.css. Feel free to up the number. As far as the reliance on bots goes, it's not a problem with the bot or bots in general so much as this operator in this case. This kind of task is a complete waste of time to do manually. - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 10:31, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

  • To repeat, in case you missed it above Kingpin, is it possible that I can get access to restart kingpinbot when these outages occur? — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 22:07, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

    The bot is written in F# so I think there would be a bit of work involved in running it on the toolserver? - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 14:18, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

    • Kingpin13, there is no toolserver anymore, so I'm guessing you mean on labs? I don't see why it would be an issue with running it on labs, but I can certainly check for you. I'll note that it doesn't have to be on labs for me to restart it (User:Helpmebot isn't for example [which is written in C# IIRC]), but that would be a decision that's entirely up to you. :) — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 16:19, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

• Please bear in mind that this is coming from someone with no clue about bot programming, but perhaps it would make sense to leave declined requests a bit longer than accepted ones in order to insure the user has seen them? When granting permissions, I certainly hope all of us are leaving the standard talk page messages for the user whose requests are granted, making the  Done notation here is just a formality so others know not to review the request and the bot knows to archive it. There is not, and should not be any such protocol for declined requests. If we leave everything up for a week the page could get quite crowded at times, if the bot could remove accepted requests that would cut it way down. So, is that possible and if so should we do it? Beeblebrox (talk) 21:46, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
• The problem I have with leaving these requests around longer is that they are already left around too long as it is which has constantly caused page size transclusion errors with {{Admin dashboard}}. I'd rather see them archived immediately when resolved and then have the archiver post a message on the requester's talk page giving them the result and a link to the archived result. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 22:07, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I kind of like that idea, but not the immediate part. Just today I ran across what I feel to be a poorly reasoned decline of a request, and have asked the declining admin to reconsider and/or provide more solid reasoning for their decline. If the request has been bot-archived the as soon as it was declined I would never have known. There is also a minor issue of at the request for confirmation. As we all know, most request there are declined. However, we are dealing almost exclusively with brand new users there. I for one feel it is important in almost all cases to welcome those users, even (especially actually) if they deeply misunderstand what Wikipedia is and how it works. Unfortunately not everyone sees it that way and there are some who just decline requests without following it up with a welcome on their talk page, so I end up following up for them and welcoming all the people they decline. As this is an editor retention/WP:BITE issue I feel it is pretty important.

Somewhere in between "a week" and "immediately" lies a middle ground that will keep the page from being cluttered but alow some time for review. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:04, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

• What if it was immediate with a 7 day rolling archive like RFPP has? Then admins that want to follow the feed can but it won't break the dashboard for others. As for the concerns of biteyness with new user's requesting confirmed, part of the process of archiving those requests could be to automatically welcome those users with a template designed specifically for them. Kind of like what I do with User:Technical 13/Scripts/ACC WikiLove for Account Creation (since the bot that is suppose to do the welcoming for that project has been down longer than I've been a member). Thoughts? — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 23:28, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

A non-admin closure?

Hi all,
Can I, a non-admin, can close a request like this? I have seen another editor doing it. That's why.. - The Herald (here I am) 12:59, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

• The Herald, I wouldn't recommend NACing requests for confirmed or other permissions unless they are clearly SNOW. Examples might include a person who has never touched a template or module requested  Template editor or if someone who doesn't meet any of the hard set requirements for  Account creator. Be careful with declining requests for autoconfirmed, I've seen IAR (I am one) invoked to grant that right for people who have created hundreds or thousands of non-article pages (templates, help pages, wikiproject pages, etc). I hope this answer helps. :) — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 14:25, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Sure. I'll be alert always. I will preferably close SNOWs.  - The Herald (here I am) 14:27, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

T13, I think you are confusing autoconfirmed with autopatrolled. One onmy needs 10 edits with a 4 day old account to become WP:AUTOCONFIRMED and for that reason almost all requests to be confirmed early are denied, it is pretty much only done in cases of verified legitimate alternate accounts. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:21, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

• Yes, Beeblebrox, I mistyped it. I did indeed mean  Autopatrolled. Autoconfirmed can't be manually granted (which is why we have confirmed). Thank you for the clarification, I hadn't had any coffee yet. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 16:32, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and apparently I was an IAR for a request for Confirmed as well (take a look), so extreme caution should be used there as well. :) — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 16:44, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Certainly don't NAC a  Done request that you can't action; like the others above say, only NAC SNOW here, only place you certainly can help is reviewing AWB requests, if they are under the threshold and didn't specify a special reason the requester should be asked for a a reason--if they ignore it for say a week it can be NAC closed  Not done. — xaosflux ^Talk 02:29, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Let's get real about rollback

I think some of us may be taking request for rollback a bit too seriously. I think we should be aware of the reality of the situation when reviewing these request, to wit:

• Rollback is really no more "powerful" than the undo function, it's just ever-so-slightly easier
• If someone misuses it it is a matter of just a few keystrokes to remove it again
• WP:TWINKLE has a much better rollback function and all you have to do to access it is turn it on in your preferences literally the second you register an account

Personally I never had rollback until I became an admin and I never missed it because I use twinkle. Actually, I would rather not have it as it just gets in my way but apparently if you are an admin you have it whether you want it or not. The point is, this is an extremely low-level user right, there is literally nothing a user with rollback can damage that a user without it couldn't, and we implicitly grant it to every single registered account by having twinkle available to them from day one.

I don't know that any formal policy changes are needed here or anything, but I'd like to discuss the matter with PERM regulars and anyone else with an interest in rollback requests. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:32, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

• Beeblebrox, I agree with most of what you said. Twinkle isn't available from day one, it's available from whenever autoconfirmed is obtained (day 4 if they have 10 edits). Also, the only real reasons to have rollback is to be able to use a few userscripts and tools like Stiki and Huggle. I'm actually wondering if the hat shouldn't just be done away with or rolled into reviewer or something. Scripts and tools that rely on it could certainly be updated. Is there any valid reason for keeping it around and not doing this? — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 23:43, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

  It's actually possible to use Twinkle without being registered, but I won't get into details. If "real" rollback is ever changed to not bypass things like the spamblacklist, I'd support removing the rollbacker group and giving the right to autoconfirmed (or maybe even user). Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:50, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

After considering a request many times, I find the TW more easy since pressing UNDO usually fails from an edit conflict. The difference of course is the twinkle and the permission allows it on one click. You just have to be more careful. VegasCasinoKid (talk) 23:45, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

• ...Or instead of having the rollback, why don't we just do a dummy edit on a previous version of the page we want to restore, save, and magically, a non-rollback ... rollback! Seriously, I always found this user right to be a bit redundant, given that the function can be accomplished via other means. Steel1943 (talk) 00:24, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
• I think getting rid of it as a separate user right probably makes a lot of sense. It could instead be an optional gadget like twinkle. I know it is a prerequisite for some anti-vandal tools, but frankly I don't really think it should be the job of admins at PERM to act as the gatekeepers for those tools, unless they want it done directly as is done with AWB. However, to make that change will require a big RFC, and I'm in the middle of putting together one of those on an entirely separate issue right now and it will probably need me to babysit it for a while after it goes live. Anyone up for it? I can at least offer advice on setting it up. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:32, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Me starting such an RfC would guarantee its demise, so unless no-one else wants to do it, I'd rather not. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 00:56, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
• Possibly not worth worrying about, but rollback links--unlike Twinkle links--show up on the history and recent changes, which makes it easier to revert edits that are obviously revert worthy without checking the diff (e.g. if it's an obvious malicious blanking as per the size change and summary, or when edit warring with a vandal or reverting oneself), and also makes it possible to see which edits in recent changes are current revisions. Twinkle also opens popup windows, which may not be desirable, is allegedly slower, and may stop working when we upgrade to MW 1.26. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather have rollback than resort to using Twinkle's "vandalism" links (I haven't got round to asking, though). ekips39 01:35, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Twinkle links show up on History and I never use RC because that feed is useless here so can't say for sure there. Twinkle is compliant with the upcoming changes, and as long as you're not using any of the other Category:JavaScripts using deprecated elements ( 0 ) scripts (you can comment them out until fixed) you should be fine. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 01:56, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

    Oh, and the default popup behaviour can be overridden in preferences. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 01:58, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

    After discussing this on IRC we've concluded that, no, there are no links on the page created by appending the query string ?action=history (which is what I meant by "the history", as opposed to the diff view). Yes, Twinkle links could be added to the history, and to RC as well I'm sure, which I disagree is useless. I see that my concerns are not strictly valid: there is no pressing need for rollback to exist, as Twinkle performs the same function. But is it really worth it to get rid of rollback? I don't see what we'd gain by doing so; we'd have less examination of those wanting the right, thus increasing the risk that it would be misused (indeed Twinkle can be abused, but having at least some people go through the scrutiny of rollback requests cuts down on that kind of thing), and modifying the Twinkle script and its preferences seems a great deal of fiddling for little benefit. ekips39 06:26, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

• I don't want to sound negative, but do we really need to be discussing any of this? Is it a high priority for our volunteer programmers who have badly functioning tools on Labs to fix? Frankly I never really understood the difference between Twinkle's rollback and the user right Rollback - which leads me once more to think thst it's only of interest to the hat collectors and greasy pole climbers. Was there ever anything essentially wrong with the archiving? Except perhaps that the declined request were archived too soon. Do we even need a bot at all to do the archiving? We had a human bot for years who actualy did a good job of it as de facto PERM clerk. He also fixed a lot of other stuff on the fly too, such as malformed requests, vandalism, and other junk. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:38, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

  Rollback is (was?) necessary to use some other tools like Huggle, which is the only reason why I ever got it. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 06:14, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

  I assume that if rollback were eliminated, one would gain access to those tools via a request on wherever you make special requests now. This would create more work, potentially balancing out the reduction in work created by eliminating the rollback request page, though there would be some overlap between current requests for rollback and future requests for access to those tools. ekips39 06:45, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

  • I assume that if rollback were eliminated, one would gain access either through gaining access to the group it was added to (perhaps reviewer, or if it passes the proposed 'vandal figther/senty') or a CheckPage like AWB does. This would still be less work because it would only be requests for people that want to use those tools specifically and not everyone that 'just wants the hat' or misunderstands what the group does/is for. I think elimination of the hat is a net gain. You are welcome to disagree, and I encourage productive discussion if that is the case or an agreeance to disagree. :) Happy editing! — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 14:11, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I forgot about the need of the Rollback right to access Huggle. My bad. Perhapd deprecate the Twinkle version of Rollback? (although I'm not saying I come across a lot of misuse of either tool. I've probably never stripped more than three or four users of their Rollback flag). --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:19, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

• Since counter-vandalism is what rollback is (primarily) intended for, it makes sense that it's the borderline prerequisite for the semi-automated tools. So long as rollback is the key to powerful software like Huggle and STiki, I think we need to be careful who we grant the right to. There's plenty of wiggle room, however. For example, if the user has 100 mainspace edits, but from those it is clear they know how to tell the difference between good-faith edits and vandalism, and are they are willing to help out, I think we can take the leap of faith and ignore the 200 mainspace edit rule. Similarly, unless they have themselves been disruptive in the past, I don't think it's necessary to look beyond contributions relevant to counter-vandalism. It's okay if the only thing they're interested in is reverting vandals all day with Huggle. It is fun, constructive, and we could always use another helping hand. All this being said, I'd consider pending-changes reviewer the lowest bar for user rights, as it merely re-enables a tacit ability autoconfirmed users possessed prior to the implementation of pending changes—the ability to approve anonymous edits (this explanation borrowed from the page notice). For this reason I think pending-changes reviewer is less focused on fighting vandalism but more so just understanding basic policy and with that being able to infer if any given edit is appropriate for the encyclopedia. Finally, barring blatant misjudgement, I respect any admin's decision and do not question their decisions in granting the rights or declining requests. I also like the system of pinging admins who have recently declined requests from a new requester. They may be able to offer insight into how the user's competence has improved. It would be nice if we had a bot that automatically did this, though! — MusikAnimal ^talk 21:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

• I figure it's time to oen this to wider debate, see [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Rollback 2015. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:33, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 January 2015

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I would like to change the photograph currently showing on wikipedia on my page information for Diana Binks. Please confirm how i can do this by email to binksdb@outlook.com Many thanks . Diana Binks

StrictlyDB (talk) 11:55, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Wikipedia:Requests for permissions. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned.  ^B E _C K ^Y _S A ^{Y L} E _S  17:36, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Oversight and Checkuser should also include identification. Yes it's on the pages focusing on them but it wouldn't hurt to mention it here.

 Comment: Not sure that's needed here, a link is provided to more information, that should suffice. Mlpearc (open channel) 18:25, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 19:05, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2015

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Dear Wiki Editor, I am kulamani, a computer engineering student from NIT Allahabad University, India. Want to write technical article in wiki users. Please allow me user permission. Thank you. Kulamani sethi (talk) 01:41, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

@Kulamani sethi: - This is not a request page, you may be looking for: Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Confirmed — xaosflux ^Talk 03:35, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.