Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2015 February 12

February 12

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. There is consensus to get rid of the individual template. There is no consensus apparent on merging a state option in to {{USA}}, but such changes may be further persued on the templates talk page Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 10:52, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:USA-MA (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Template:USA (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

This template appears to be redundant to {{flag|Massachusetts}}, which it wraps. There are no similar templates for other states, though this appears to be an extension of {{USA}} and this state's name is one of the long ones... —PC-XT+ 10:41, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have changed to Propose a merge, where a parameter would be added to {{USA}} for states. Instead of {{USA-MA}}, it would be {{USA|MA}}. Thoughts? —PC-XT+ 10:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Query for @PC-XT: Do any of these proposed new or merged formats exist for flag icons of other states of the United States, or, for that matter, the states or provinces of countries other than the United States? Do templates or redirects for flag icons of other states employ U.S. postal code abbreviations, as this one does? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:10, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • That's part of the reason I wanted discussion. I haven't checked all the country codes on all 3 lists, but {{USA-MA}} is the only template I know of its kind, though {{US-MA-stub}} is a redirect to {{Massachusetts-stub}}. (US-MA is a ISO 3166-2:US code. There are codes for other country divisions, as well, based on 2-letter ISO for the country part. {{US}} redirects to {{USA}}. Canada would be {{CA}}, which has been deleted multiple times, so I am not sure it is related. {{DE}} is unrelated. Massachusetts is the only US state with templates named this way, that I know of.) {{GER/Nazi}} displays a variant, so may be considered close, but the loop error in the documentation makes me think it is nonstandard. (The way to fix the loop would probably be to either merge it to {{GER}} or rename it to {{GER-Nazi}}, but if renamed, it would still have problems with the code. I added documentation to {{USA-MA}}, which works except for calling the state a country and the code ISO. If you take out the code parameter, it gives {{?}} as the usage.) Germany has two templates: {{DEU}} (3-letter ISO and FIFA) and {{GER}} (IOC) but its documentation says FIFA uses GER. {{GER/Nazi}} has no {{DEU/Nazi}} counterpart. Template talk:USA has a suggestion to show variants, which could still be done, though {{flag}} already provides this feature. Otherwise, I don't know of a Wikipedia standard in this area. —PC-XT+ 13:31, 5 February 2015 (UTC) I asked at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Flag Template#Template names for principal subdivisions of countries —PC-XT+ 13:40, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Of course, custom documentation would need to be created in any case of variance from the current standard, so I'm mostly wondering how these subdivisions should be handled, or if they should be handled. {{USA}} would need custom documentation, for instance. That would also fix doc problems for the Nazi flag, the MA flag discussed here, and any other variants. If we can decide on a standard way to support them, the documentation template could be changed to allow them, instead. —PC-XT+ 15:21, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete {{USA-MA}} and do not create any other templates of this form. Templates such as {{USA}} were created about 10 years ago and led to the creation of WP:WikiProject Flag Template soon afterwards to accommodate more than just country flags. The consensus was that templates such as {{flag}}, {{flagicon}} etc. ought to use full names (i.e. {{flag|Massachusetts}} instead of using codes, to improve the readability of wiki markup for subsequent editors. The "country code template set" was retained since many of those codes are well-known by many editors (USA, RUS, CHN, etc.) but I assert that in many cases it is still preferable to use the complete country name to avoid confusion. (Quick, what's the country code for Malaysia?) Furthering that thought, if we created "shorthand" templates for country subdivisions, it would be logical to use the ISO 3166-2 code, but that dramatically increases the complexity of wiki markup. Is there any benefit whatsoever in using {{DE-BY}} instead of {{flag|Bavaria}}? I think it's a very bad idea to develop a full set of code-based flag templates for country subdivisions. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 02:25, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 21:41, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@PC-XT: Thank you for notifying WikiProject Flag Template of this TfD/TfM discussion: [1]; hopefully, your notice on the WikiProject talk page will elicit some helpful feedback from editors who create and maintain this entire family of flag icons on a regular basis. I would also urge that you notify the template creator of Template:USA (even though he appears to be minimally active these days), as well as the major contributors to that template. This is a TfD discussion that I believe could genuinely benefit from the input of the people who created and maintained these animals, and we should not be shy about requesting their input in this discussion on their user talk pages per the notice suggestions of the TfD/TfM instructions. If you need help posting these notices, please let me know and I will be happy to share the responsibility for notifying a wider group of potential discussion participants of this discussion. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:07, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dirtlawyer1, I just notified Aris Katsaris. I'd like more discussion on the matter, myself. Feel free to notify contributors to other templates in Category:Flag templates, if it will help. I'm rather busy, today, or I would notify some more right now. —PC-XT+ 17:20, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for that, PC-XT. I'm playing Wikipedia in between client meetings today myself, but I will liberally interpret your comment as license for me to notify some of the major template creators on your behalf tonight and tomorrow. One of the strange things I have discovered over the last 6 years about Wikipedia XfDs, RfCs and other talk page discussions, is that the editors whose input you really want and sometimes really need are the ones to whim you have to issue a personal invitation to participate. Your proposals above raise some interesting questions and possibilities, but I think they also represent some additional complications, and I would like to hear what some of the "experts" have to say. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:12, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I have more questions than answers, and would like more experience involved to choose the best thing to do with these templates. I found some time to notify some more contributors to {{USA}}, including the creator of the wikiproject page. —PC-XT+ 21:51, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete {{USA-MA}} per original nomination. I don't have a strong opinion on whether or not to add a state option to {{USA}}; I think that's a separate matter.

    Regarding Dirtlawyer's query on similar existing templates: while {{USA-MA}} is the only U.S. state flag template shortcut, such templates consistently exist for the Belgian subdivisions, e.g. {{BE-VAN}}. Similarly named templates also exist for Romania (though with coats of arms instead of flags) and Italy (with region names only). Additionally, the Canadian provinces and territories have flag template shortcuts without country code prefix ({{AB}} through {{YT}}). These are all I can find.

    In the case of Massachusetts, {{flag|MA}} (or {{flagcountry|MA}} if you want to display the full state name) also works, using the redirect Template:Country data MA. Such aliases exist for nineteen U.S. states. I'm not saying I support the existence of these redirects, but they exist and are used. (These are all existing two-letter flag aliases.) SiBr4 (talk) 17:44, 15 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. It seems nobody objects to deletion anymore. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 10:56, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:PragerU (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Orphaned after ELN discussion. Alakzi (talk) 18:42, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Relisted at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2015_February_21#Template:Districts of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 10:48, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete as redundant to {{Battagram-Union-Councils}} Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 10:43, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Villages of Battagram (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

{{Battagram-Union-Councils}} has same links. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:17, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was merge as per nom. (nac) Alakzi (talk) 11:58, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Archive list long (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Template:Archive list (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Propose merging Template:Archive list long with Template:Archive list.
The two templates serve the same purpose: creating a list of links to archive pages, but use two different Lua modules (this, by the way, is my fault, I created a new module without checking what already existed). Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 09:05, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.