Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1116

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Linking to archives

Hello, I wanted to know how to create a link to an archived discussion on a WikiProject talkpage. Thank you, Charlie Smith FDTB (talk) 03:27, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Charlie Smith FDTB. If you simply want to add a link to an archived page, then you can pretty much do it the same way as any other WP:WIKILINK to an existing Wikipedia page: just add the name of the page in between two sets of double square brackets like [[Name of archived page]]. If you want to add a Wikilink to particular discussion on an archived page, then you can format the link as [[Name of archived page#Name of discussion]]. You should also be able to do essentially the same thing by formatting the link as an WP:EXTERNALLINK by using two sets of single brackets and the url addresses of the archived page or the archived discussion; for example, [url address of archived page] or [url address of archived discussion]. I believe that's what you're asking about, but please clarify if it's not. -- Marchjuly (talk) 03:39, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Okay, thank you, Charlie Smith FDTB (talk) 03:42, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Publis your first page

 Courtesy link: User:Rodiexjk/sandbox/Ashish Kohli I wanna know that how to publish first article because i am unable to find move button on article which i have wrote Rodiexjk (talk) 04:14, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

You need to submit it for review. Note, however, that it will not get accepted in its current form because it does not have any citations. Please read Help:Your first article. Kleinpecan (talk) 04:45, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Does this draft contain "reliable" sources?

I have recently re-submitted a draft. Does this draft contain "reliable" sources? I thought I'll ask at the Teahouse before it gets reviewed so that I can get it edited before hand.  Excellenc1 (talk) 11:55, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@Excellenc1: welcome to the Teahouse. At a very quick look at the urls, those sources look like they're 'reliable' (i.e. not blogs, social media or press releases). But what's critical is whether they are sufficiently detailed and in-depth enough about this person to confer 'notability' per this guideline. This is the key test. But as there are 21 sources we would have to wade through to answer that question, perhaps you would help us by linking to the three most detailed ones that you feel would meet that guideline. The alternative is simply to wait for the review to take its course which can, I accept, take some time. But that will be the case anyway as we don't speed up reviews here. Nick Moyes (talk) 12:10, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: There are certain citations which are from sites I believe are notable news organisations like:

Citation number (in the draft)	Site name
1	Le Journal de Saône-et-Loire
6	Les Echos
8	Nouvelle-Calédonie La Première
9	Le Monde
12	Ouest France
13	RNZ
15	Le Figaro
16	20 minutes

Excellenc1📞 12:58, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Excellenc1, please read Nick Moyes' helpful and detailed reply above. The issue is not whether the sources are notable, it is whether they are reliable, independent, and include sufficient discussion to establish that the subject is notable, in Wikipedia's idiosyncratic sense. And he didn't ask you to link eight sources, he asked for three. Maproom (talk) 13:22, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes- as Maproom says, just read WP:NBIO gain and give us your three best sources that talk about the subject in detail and in depth. The journals/newspapers themselves are acceptable to Wikipedia, but only if the content within them about that person is sufficient to demonstrate notability. Nick Moyes (talk) 14:47, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I misread the question, I mixed up reliable and notable sources. And about the 3 best sources, I would rather like to summarize the table.

Citation number (in the draft)	What does it say	Site name
1	His personal life and beginning of his career (kinda important)	Le Journal de Saône-et-Loire
6	His appointment as the Prefect of Vendée	Les Echos
8	His appointment as Chief of Staff to the President of the Republic (I think this one is a good source)	Nouvelle-Calédonie La Première
9	He replaced Sylvie Hubac as the chief of staff but I used it because it mentions the years in which he was a prefect	Le Monde
12	He replaced Sylvie Hubac as the chief of staff but I used it to cite the line where I mentioned who his assistant was	Ouest France
13	His appointment as the High Commissioner of New Caledonia before the 2018 referendum (this one is another good source)	RNZ
15	To cite that he was in charge of the referendum	Le Figaro
16	Jean-Pierre Hugues replacing him as head of the Dutch cabinet	20 minutes

So here are the three best sources along with what these notable sources tell about. I hope this is fine. Excellenc1📞 15:49, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Excellenc1, which among the eight are the best three? Nick Moyes asked you for three. Not eight, not even four, but three. -- Hoary (talk) 22:38, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@Hoary: The ones in the table where I have mentioned terms in brackets (citations 1, 8 and 13). These are the three best sources. Excellenc1📞 05:43, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Excellenc1, you offer:

• 1. "Thierry Lataste, marié, père de 4 enfants, est né le 31 janvier 1954 à Talence en Gironde": Reliable, useful, but doesn't show notability.
• 8. "Thierry Lataste nommé directeur de cabinet du Président de la République": Good.
• 13. "New French High Commissioner installed in New Caledonia": Reliable, but a mere mention.

Two of these three would be more than trivially useful; but only one, I think, can be said to indicate notability. (Nick Moyes' evaluation may be different.) -- Hoary (talk) 06:25, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Link not working

Moved to User talk:BrandonXLF/Archives/2021 § Link not working

 – ―Qwerfjkltalk 06:43, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

#expr, get decimal digits

Is there a better way to get the decimal digits instead of

#expr (long calulation) - trunc (long calculation)?

if (long calculation) is 12.345: I want to get 0.345 without having the (long calculation) two times in the expresion.

Are there temporary variables possible like

#expr (temp=(long calulation)) - trunc temp ? Schrauber5 (talk) 10:01, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

How to archive your own talk page?

So, I wanted to put an archive system on my talk page because it has grown too large. During my attempts, I use ClueBot III and it created some page, it created User talk:SunDawn/Archive 1. But as things go, I wanted it to change into a Year-Month format, so I change the ClueBot script, but it only created User talk:SunDawn/Archive2021/July and the content is from multiple months instead of just July. I removed both page to start from clean, but now the Archive Box on my Talk Page is displaying red links.

So, how to totally clean up the Archives and start from stratch? And how to correctly create the talk page archive, preferably like User talk:Rdp060707?

Thank you! SunDawntalk 10:33, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Template edit

I just saw this template, and I think someone is directing the title's link incorrectly, how do I redirect the title's link so it can drive you to the correct topic? I need help Mhatopzz (talk) 16:19, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

 Done Mhatopzz, that redirect was broken (pointing to a non-existent section) until it was fixed by a bot a year ago. The bot did the best it could, matching the nonexistent "Politics" to the section title "Political status". I've now changed it to point to "Government and politics" as you suggest. --ColinFine (talk) 17:30, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, but how did you do that? Mhatopzz (talk) 11:35, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Articel of Bhimarjun acharya.

I have added more genuine source link in "Major Books" section. And also more referces. My page link is https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Draft:Bhimarjun_Acharya. Could you pleae check it and give me feeback regading my page? Banbibek (talk) 12:11, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

The article has been rejected, which means it will not be considered further. The sources you added in the "Major books" section are just Google Books entries or Overcat database listings. They only show that the books exist (which was never the problem), they don't indicate that the books, or the person, are notable. It would be more productive and less frustrating for you to stop trying to create this article, and instead work on existing Wikipedia articles. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 12:40, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I see nothing in his career description or other accomplishments that confirm notability as Wikipedia defines it - I concur with the Rejection. David notMD (talk) 13:13, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Need help verifying source behind paywall

This article Satyendra Prasanna Sinha, 1st Baron Sinha cited two different marriage year. In the infobox, it is stated that he married in 1909, but in the article body in the personal life section, it is stated that he married in 1880, with a ref behind paywall. Can someone who has access to UK public library membership help verified this? Lulusword (talk) 07:05, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Lulusword Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You've done nothing wrong, but you might have more luck with this by asking on the article talk page, Talk:Satyendra Prasanna Sinha, 1st Baron Sinha, where it's more likely that the editor who placed that reference will see your question. 331dot (talk) 07:25, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Lulusword I have access to the Oxford Dictionary of Biography- it states he was married in 1880 to Gobinda Mohini Mutter and gives him four sons and three daughters. No mention about the exact date, or another wife in 1909. (his first wife survived until 1938, after his death.) Curdle (talk) 07:35, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you to both of you. :) Lulusword (talk) 07:39, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

This might help as well (the year mentioned is 1878) https://www.open.ac.uk/researchprojects/makingbritain/content/s-p-sinha - Sulṭān ʿAbdullāh al-Hindi ^Talk 07:44, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

"He entered Presidency College, Calcutta, in 1878, married Gobinda Mohini, with whom he had four sons and three daughters, in 1880, and left for England in 1881 without taking a degree". The wording is a bit convoluted, Sultan.abdullah.hindi, but that source confirms a marriage date of 1880. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:50, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Cordless Larry: That is indeed correct. My bad, I didn't notice the 1880 at first. - Sulṭān ʿAbdullāh al-Hindi ^Talk 13:47, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

How to insert tables in a page

Greetings! I want to expand the geography section of Amhara Region article, by adding major cities, their year round temperature among other stats like climate classification. I was thinking something like this:▶ Name of city|Elevation in meters|year round average temperature in celsius|year round precipitation in mm|Koppfen climate classifaction

Something like that, is it possible to make a table? Thanks Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 13:54, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

{{Weather box}} does something similar to what you want. Check out Bhiwandi#Climate for an example. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:14, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Tenryuu nice! I read somewhere that users can remove fields that would be great, I don't need to much details like stats every months. Hopefully i can modify it. Thanks again! Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 16:19, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Lund, Kansas

I did all the work to upload two pictures to the page of "Lund, Kansas". The pictures showed up, but not the titles, captions or descriptions of the pictures.

I have not idea if I am working/worked in mobile view or the VisualEditor.

Help! Ttownsell (talk) 10:15, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Ttownsell: You placed the pictures in the wrong position—after everything in the article, including cats & the stub tag—so I've moved them, one to the infobox and one to the body of the article. The reason that the captions weren't showing is that you omitted the "thumb" parameter from the image links. If you want the images positioned otherwise, you can play around with them yourself (previewing rather than saving your edits until you're satisfied), or you can ask me for help on my talk page. Deor (talk) 16:21, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

how to pronounce word

please insert and audio pronunciation of the word . how to pronounce it properly . thank you 2604:3D08:267C:12B0:5546:140E:1A3E:EBE6 (talk) 14:54, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Thanks for your suggestion, is there a particular word you were interested in? Please understand that Wikipedia is a volunteer project, where people do what they can when they can with what they have available. I'd suggest that you bring this up on the article talk page of the word you are interested in. 331dot (talk) 15:03, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

{{doing}} on #wikipedia-en-help ^connect  Done — Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 15:05, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Wiktionary is better suited to what you want. Many entries there include a written pronunciation in IPA, and some are also supplemented with audio files. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:36, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Template color

Hello! I have been trying to edit a number of Indian state templates and I found that I am not able to change the template colours. While testing, I found that while I am able to change the colours of US state templates, I am not able to do the same for Indian state templates. For example, the Template:Vermont has a greenish colour. When I tried to do the same for Template:Uttar Pradesh, it did not show any change. Are template colours changeable only for US state templates? FlyJet777 (talk) 18:14, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@FlyJet777: Welcome to the Teahouse! Template:US state navigation box (used by {{Vermont}}) has a |color= parameter, while Template:Navbox (used by {{Uttar Pradesh}}) uses different parameters - see Template:Navbox#Style parameters for the details. GoingBatty (talk) 19:15, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Ipswich help

Hi I was wondering if I could ask some editors to please help me with an ongoing WP:Owning with editor User:LakeKnowledge...they keep reverting my edit of Ipswich as the county town of Suffolk to a historic county town in Suffolk...there is no evidence or sources clarifying Ipswich is no longer the county town...as only counties which have been replaced with one unitary authority or more can then say was the county town (Ie...Chester in Cheshire, Shrewsbury in Shropshire, York in Yorkshire and Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire) I understand these will still be classed as the county town of a ceremonial county but if that has been replaced from a county council to a unitary authority then I am pretty sure the original county town loses its status as the main headquaters...its like with Matlock taking over from Derby as the county town when Derby went into a unitary authority...Nottingham is another but remains the county town as Nottinghamshire County Council are based in the city and Northampton was the county town of Northamptonshire until the creation of West and North Northhamptonshire...with the county town ceasing...RailwayJG (talk) 23:04, 10 July 2021 (UTC) RailwayJG (talk) 23:04, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@RailwayJG, hello and welcome to the Teahouse, reverting each other isn’t a good idea, rather, if you make edits which are reverted, what you ought to do is to initiate a dialogue with the other party or at the TP of the article and try to reach a consensus or a compromise. If that fails you may ask for a third opinion from an uninvolved party, see WP:30. Celestina007 (talk) 23:56, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

AFAIK, Bury St. Edmunds is the county town. Mjroots (talk) 19:45, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Template inserting new line

{{IPuser2}} seems to insert a new line at the end. Any idea why? ―Qwerfjkltalk 15:32, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl: It's possible that it's because <noinclude> starts on a new line. Try putting it on the same line as </includeonly> and see if that fixes what you're seeing. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:31, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Tenryuu Thanks, that worked! ―Qwerfjkltalk 20:38, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I want a fair judgement on all @Bonadea edits

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I strongly believe the editor @Bonadea is not being fair and has been purposely removing things and trying to manipulate reliable sources as press release when it’s an interview done by popular and reliable journalists. It is not fair and someone has to look into all her edits. If this place truly is a fair place? Positiveilluminati (talk) 18:17, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Pinging @Bonadea. ―Qwerfjkltalk 18:55, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@Rosguill: The AN thread is closed, your closing comment about continuing discussion there is confusing. RudolfRed (talk) 19:28, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Nevermind, I see it was closed after this discussion was. RudolfRed (talk) 19:37, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

If there's a discussion to be had it should be had at AN, I don't have a strong opinion on whether it was appropriate to close the AN discussion at this time. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 19:38, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I believe I was stripped away of normal human rights, like I am just some name on the internet. Are we forgetting we are a community of humans and have rights to voice out what’s wrong? I feel like I’m being made to shut up unfairly. This is causing me so much anger and frustration because I’ve figured a pattern in this editors editing and it’s unfair. If I won’t get justice then I lose hope in humanity overall. Positiveilluminati (talk) 19:43, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, I feel like they do not want this issue to be raised somewhat I could be wrong no disrespect but they are mostly hushing me out of this with threats to ban me. I really hope some truthful and fair editors rises up and looks into this persons edits because they’re making big impactful decisions and I’ve figured a pattern they follow and if I voice it unfortunately I am threatened all sorts of things so I can’t voice my opinion. I didn’t know Wikipedia was meant to be like this. We need to be a fair community. Positiveilluminati (talk) 19:40, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I've explained to you that your accusations implying bigotry constitute personal attacks. If you continue forum-shopping like this, you will be blocked. Acroterion (talk) 19:42, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I am not implying bigotry I said a pattern and I have not disclosed it yet, because you overpowered me to not express my feelings Positiveilluminati (talk) 19:45, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello @Positiveilluminati, perhaps unknowingly and may not have been your intention, but yes, you did imply bigotry, you are walking a very thin line of being blocked for personal attacks. Bonadea is a productive editor with years of experience under their belt, you on the other hand, are three months old, I’d suggest more listening and less talking. Celestina007 (talk) 21:51, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Are we sure PositiveIlluminati is not Nsmutte changing his MO a bit? —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 21:47, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Celestina007 Positiveilluminati is already blocked. ―Qwerfjkltalk 21:54, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl, that escalated quickly, talk about “0 to a 100” Celestina007 (talk) 22:02, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

How can my organization publish its Wikipedia article?

Hello, I am a writer hired by my current agency to write an article about them. After being rejected, I am wondering what materials can be helpful for my organization to provide to increase of chance of being published. My company is a representative of multiple Italian luxury furniture brands that have been in the industry for years. We have provided services to help elevate brands' presence in the Asia-Pacific regions. It would be much appreciated if an experienced editor can look through our page and inform us what needs adjusting so it can go public. Thank you so much! Italianatelier-wiki (talk) 11:53, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Italianatelier-wiki Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. First, you need to change your username immediately; it is not permitted per the username policy for a username to be that of a company. Please visit Special:GlobalRenameRequest or WP:CHUS to make a request to change your username as soon as possible. Your username must reflect that a specific person is exclusively operating this account(your real name is not required).

Regarding your draft, please understand that Wikipedia is not a place for companies to tell the world about themselves and what they do. That's considered advertising here. A Wikipedia article must summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about the company, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable company. Not every company merits a Wikipedia article, it depends on the sources. You must set aside everything you know about the company and all materials put out by the company(such as press releases, announcements of routine business activites, interviews with staff, or brief mentions) and only write based on what independent sources choose to say about the company on their own. Most people in your position have difficulty doing that, but it is possible.

Note that any article about your company does not belong to the company(see WP:OWN), and the company has no special rights to it- it actually has less, as even if your draft is accepted, you would no longer be able to edit it directly, and would be limited to edit requests. 331dot (talk) 12:00, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Courtesy: Draft:Italian Atelier, declined once. Some of the references are mentions-in-name-only, others are clearly press release derived. David notMD (talk) 12:43, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

FYI

 – The user has been blocked

―Qwerfjkltalk 21:07, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Blocked for inappropriate User name. David notMD (talk) 22:03, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

When to close a discussion and how to request an admin to do that

Greetings,

so this discussion was started back in January and has been going on until around March. At that point, it had become clear that consensus decided against any change. But the discussion still is open as of this day, with no additional talk going on, just the weird and unwieldy discussion lingering on the talk page. So my question is: Shouldn't this be closed? I don't see any indication that a renewed discussion would start anytime soon, or consensus would change on the topic.

If it should indeed be closed, I am wondering how to achieve that. Is there a way to formally request an admin for something that is not of urgency, but like a procedural thing? If anyone could give me some pointers, that'd be great thanks :) LordPeterII (talk) 09:55, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@LordPeterII, you can ask at WP:Closure requests. Like with anything else around here, there may be waiting involved. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:38, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Gråbergs Gråa Sång, will do that. --LordPeterII (talk) 22:26, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

How do I propose an article for deletion?

How do I propose an article for deletion? Sennagod (talk) 18:31, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

See WP:AFDHOWTO. Victor Schmidt (talk) 18:37, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

User:Sennagod Edit the article via source code, and then put at the very top the following code from https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Proposed_deletion

-Dcdiehardfan (talk) 20:56, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Sennagod You can use Twinkle for both WP:AfD (Under WP:XfD) and WP:PROD. ―Qwerfjkltalk 21:04, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

If you are serious about this, I recommend AfD over PROD. The latter is typically for stale articles that have no potential. David notMD (talk) 21:46, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Sennagod, I’m seconding David notMD, prods aren’t that much of a help as they can be challenged by just anybody, even the article creator themself. One question which hasn’t been asked yet is, what article do you intend to see deleted? If I’m reading this correctly, you are merely 9 hours old and I don’t see why you are interested in deletions. You are of course not compelled to reply me, but do tread carefully though. Celestina007 (talk) 22:00, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Sennagod has expressed an interest in Layla Love. David notMD (talk) 22:41, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@David notMD, ah! I see that now, not so sure why though they are taking interest there. Celestina007 (talk) 23:22, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

What is a barnstar and how do I get one?

I've seen barnstars on different talk pages before. But what are they, and what do you even use them for? please hear me out because I'm really confused.

==thanks== Sparklestern (talk) 22:01, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Sparklestern, welcome to the Teahouse and we are glad to have you. Barnstars are a way to tell other editors you “see them” and admire their work, think about it like a token of appreciation, any editor can give you one if you work hard enough in joining us to build an encyclopedia. Celestina007 (talk) 22:03, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Barnstars. ―Qwerfjkltalk 22:12, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Sparklestern, forget barnstars. Start by making scrupulously referenced, intelligent, fair, minor additions to existing articles. Then move on to scrupulously referenced, intelligent, fair, substantive additions to existing articles. Once you have acquired that ability, consider creating an article. (Or rather, reconsider creating one.) If you do a good job of it, somebody might give you a barnstar; but by that point, you won't care much about such trivia. -- Hoary (talk) 23:29, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Also, be careful with your edits. You deleted a Barnstar from someone else's Talk page (since restored). David notMD (talk) 01:03, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

What is the best way to make discussions private other than email?

One thing that bothers me about sending email is that it exposes your email address to the other person and it exposes their email address to you. I don't like the public nature that all your conversations on wikipedia are readable for an eternity, even for unintended parties. I love snapchat because conversations automatically erase themselves and you're not allowed to take screenshots without getting caught/punished. Is there a feature that I'm unaware of that allows private discussions between editors? LaceyUF (talk) 22:56, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Not without off-wiki means, and even email, Discord, and IRC can't be used to influence discussions on-wiki barring extreme circumstances that would involve ArbCom. (And using Snapchat would be seen as suspicious as the preference for Wikipedia editors is transparency.) —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 23:01, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

You could create a throwaway email address that you only use on Wikipedia. Unless sensitive personal information is involved, discussions about Wikipedia should ideally be on Wikipedia for openness and transparency. 331dot (talk) 23:02, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, LaceyUF. Wikipedia is an open, collaborative project based on transparency. The vast majority of communication among editors should take place right here on Wikipedia, in the open. In the rare instances that communicating private information is necessary, the email function is available. If you do not want to disclose your regular email address, then you can set up a separate email account dedicated to your Wikipedia editing. By the way, when you send an email using Wikipedia's email function, you do not learn the recipient's email address unless that person freely chooses to respond to your email. There is no other feature allowing private communication through Wikipedia. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:06, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Follow-up: It seems the person I emailed declined to answer my curiosity stemming from an incident I read from their talk page (based on them replying to me on their talk page but not acknowledging the email). I hope it's fine if I email one of you three and ask for information about the same incident to satiate my curiosity on the matter. :) LaceyUF (talk) 23:26, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

It has been made fairly clear to you that transparency is valued here, unless there's a pressing reason not to be transparent. And editors tend to be too busy to allow them to satiate other editors' curiosity. -- Hoary (talk) 23:32, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@LaceyUF Whilst you might email another user purely out of ‘curiosity’, don’t be surprised if they respond to you directly on your talk page. If you don’t want that to happen, don’t email them in the first place. I only respond by email to users I either know and trust, or if it’s essential to maintain confidentiality. Trivial emails will either be ignored or be responded to publicly, ‘cos openness is how we operate here. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:44, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello @LaceyUF, reechoing what my superior told you above, it takes trust for your e-mail to be replied, a major problem is if an e-mail is replied, their emails are exposed which bad faith editors can hack. Infact two-three weeks ago, I was subject to a brute force attempt to hack both my e-mail and account it got so bad that I had to enable WP:2FA to finally have peace of mind and continue my work. As Nick Moyes my superior already told you transparency is key on this collaborative project thus leaving a message on the TP of any editor is good practice except what you want to share is very private please do as I, and everyone else here has admonished you to. Celestina007 (talk) 00:15, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Celestina007 One thing I am definitely NOT is your “superior” (except probably in age!) We are all ‘’equal’’ here, though some do have more experience in some areas than in others. I, for one, am still learning, even after 10 years here, and your input to Wikipedia is just as valued as mine is. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:39, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes, thanks for being modest you are a sysop and whether i like it or not you are my superior, but thanks for the modesty and humility. Celestina007 (talk) 00:44, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Follow-up: I replied to Hoary here and if anyone wants to address my concerns I raised to him, feel free to do so here or on Hoary's talk page. In summary, it feels scummy to talk about people publicly especially involving them perhaps at their lowest points and bringing unnecessary attention to it. I still strongly feel like email and/or IRC and/or discord is the wisest way to discretely discuss matters which might embarrass other editors. I know that Wikipedia values transparency, but what about what I value and the values that I bring to the table? LaceyUF (talk) 00:58, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I guess the question is: why do you need to know whatever it is you're asking about? If it's something that would make someone else embarrassed if it were talked about openly, then idle curiosity is probably not a good enough reason. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 01:07, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

This is a fair and valid rebuttal. I got spoiled by the Wikipedia discord server last month which normalized illicit curiosity and I have since parted ways with that platform. I've been an editor for 3-4 years but I have never realized nor appreciated the full extent of popcorn-worthy tales & sagas that have transpired on this platform until recently. There's a funny saying about bureaucratic regulations that I will probably butcher but it's something like "for every rule that doesn't make sense, there's a death that could have been prevented". I'm a fan of horror movies and proverbial wiki-trainwrecks but I'm not going to partake in my pleasureful delights if it causes harm or embarrassment to my fellow editors. :) LaceyUF (talk) 01:19, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

New article

How to publish new articles of an author 117.226.216.121 (talk) 02:30, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a place for publishing the new (or old) articles by any author. But if you're asking about a new article about an author who doesn't yet have an article, please read Help:Your first article. -- Hoary (talk) 02:33, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Postal addresses in the Republic of Ireland/Seperate Eircode routing key article.

The "Postal addresses in the Republic of Ireland" wiki page is excellently researched and written. But it is also extremely long and acts as more of a potted history of how addresses got to their current state than an overview of the current, on-the-ground reality. In it, there is a collapsable table of "Eircode routing keys in Ireland". I suggest creating a separate article for these along the lines of https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/List_of_postcode_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom

Any thoughts? Thanks! JamesRCC (talk) 03:12, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Permission

Do I need any company's permission to recreate their product, specifically aircraft and launch vehicles for creating a 2D schematic of their product for use in Wikipedia mainspace? Thanks. User:Ahthga Yram_{Talk with me! I want to change my name!} 12:11, 11 July 2021 (UTC) User:Ahthga Yram_{Talk with me! I want to change my name!} 12:11, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

• Ahthga Yram, hello and welcome to the Teahouse, I’m afraid your question isn’t easily comprehensible, could you be more precise? I am however willing to explain how Wikipedia works, if an article is to be created on Wikipedia, the article is meant to be of encyclopedic value and should meet our notability threshold, See WP:GNG for clarification. Wikipedia is not a platform for promoting an individual, an organization, a service(product), in summary you may not create any article(s) for the purpose of promotion, see WP:PROMO. If I have misunderstood your question please do let me know and be more precise as to what you really want to know. Celestina007 (talk) 15:15, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Ah, I mean, a 2D schematic for an aircraft or a missile/rocket for an illustration. Is any permission required before uploading them?

I'm not here to promote any corporate material, but I'm deleting blatant promotional drafts in the AfC. Thanks. User:Ahthga Yram_{Talk with me! I want to change my name!} 15:50, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Do you mean to ask whether a diagram like this at Boeing 777 can be allowed? If yes, I think that you don't need the company's permission since that file is under a Commons Licence though I think it will be better if someone with more knowledge of copyright can answer this. 45.251.33.248 (talk) 02:50, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm focusing at launch vehicle diagrams and/or schematics (it might be the same). User:Ahthga Yram_{Talk with me! I want to change my name!} 03:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

How to suggest an edit

I know about editing pages, but in one case, I don't want to make an edit because I'm not sure of how to word it or exactly what should be changed. I simply want to point out that there's a discrepancy on both the page for July 11 and an article referenced on that page (one of the "on this day in history" articles).

In the mobile app for Wikipedia, I can see how to get to the talk page, and I found that on the desktop browser version, but all the help/instruction pages I've found about this subject are confusing, or are dead-ends (like getting to the page that says something like "...submit an edit request on the article talk page using the form below." - when there wasn't actually a form below).

If someone could please enlighten me as to how to suggest an edit, that would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Doug -  TravelinTexan (talk) 03:01, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@TravelinTexan: please feel free to add to this section if WP:ERW gives you trouble. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 04:44, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Can I add Google Maps/Google Earth screenshots in Wikipedia articles?

Hello all. Please help me with my doubt regarding adding Google Maps/Google Earth screenshots in Wikipedia articles. Will it be considered a copyright violation? RPSkokie (talk) 08:07, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

RPSkokie, Google Earth has a copyright notice at the bottom of every screen. Such a screenshot, or a detail from it, would be a clear copyright violation. Maproom (talk) 08:36, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh. Okay. Can I use OpenStreetMap as alternative? RPSkokie (talk) 03:56, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@RPSkokie There is not the same copyvio issue with Open Street Map, as it is all under a Creative Commons licence. You could put an External Link to a Google mapping page, though bear in mind that the coordinate template allows users to click it and choose which of the many mapping platforms they want to view something on. So a map image might be superfluous anyway. Which article does your question relate too? Nick Moyes (talk) 04:30, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: I was editing Shigatse Peace Airport. Lately a new runway constructed and I wanted to add a satellite imagery without creating a copyvio issue. RPSkokie (talk) 04:35, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@RPSkokie I followed the coordinates link and appreciate that an image or map would be great for that article. But rather than make a static copy of OpenStreetMaps, you can embed a live OSM map into the article. I’ve never done it myself, but you can use Template:OSM Location map for this. Give it a try! Nick Moyes (talk) 07:45, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@RPSkokie I see you're giving it a try - fantastic. But I forget to say that it's often a wise move to experiment with new templates in your sandbox before pasting the final, working template into the article. Using edit summaries also helps you remember which step you did what at (as I've learned to my cost in the past) Nick Moyes (talk) 08:48, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: Ooops. Sorry, My bad. I will use the sandbox from now onwards. Shall I remove the code from the page? I am not able to follow and execute it properly. The end result is conflicting with Wikipedia's style. RPSkokie (talk) 08:51, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@RPSkokie Yes, I think that would be sensible. You could always copy the entire article into your sandbox and play with it there. It should render exactly the same. Just make an edit summary in your sandbox which attributes which article the content came from, and then simply delete it all when you're done. I'm sorry I'm not sufficiently experienced in the finer points of maps and infoboxes to help you much further. Obviously, the first step is simply to create the frame showing the map you want. Only then would you need to worry about making it work within, or outside of, the infobox. Nick Moyes (talk) 13:23, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

RPSkokie, Kartographer is good for this. See for example, Parc des Buttes Chaumont. Mathglot (talk) 15:41, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

This is awesome. I am gonna try this now. Thanks @Mathglot. RPSkokie (talk) 04:48, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Need article on Al Jacobs ( 1903- 1985)

Need article on Al Jacobs ( 1903- 1985) references https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0414311/bio https://www.loc.gov/item/ihas.200000021/ Fan of composer Rebecca Clarke (talk) 06:43, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Fan of composer Rebecca Clarke You could try Wikipedia:Requested articles, though it is unlikely your article will be made, or you could try writing a draft. ―Qwerfjkltalk 06:52, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

How to manage my talk page .

My talk page is became bit old and have lots of messeges. How I can archive all the messeges ? Or Can I delete them to make my talk page neat and clean ?? Huge Earth (talk) 08:09, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

You can do any of various things. I think the neatest is to "move" your talk page to (i.e. rename it as) User:Huge Earth/Archive01 (without a redirect) and then restart your talk page with a link to User:Huge Earth/Archive01 -- Hoary (talk) 08:18, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

You'll find advice at Help:Archiving a talk page. --David Biddulph (talk) 08:20, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

How do.

EAt?

Ey Up IP. Welcome to the Teahouse. Do you have a question about editing Wikipedia? This is solely what we do here. Nick Moyes (talk) 09:14, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Which type of source in references we should provoid?

0: What is References exactly? 1: What kind of sources should be? 2: Zwak News was mentioned in lof sources, Does Mentioning name in sources is againest wiki rules? 3: How to Reply to this question?

THE REST OF MESSAGE:

Hello Dear Readers! I hope you are doing well and healthy during golbal pandemic! First i of all i have attached one more news resources as well, and check that. secondly someone keep my Draft Editing keeping removing article text. As per our country and behalf other wikipedians, I have most strong and amazing sources, Which means that my site has notability. but the problem is that "YOU GUYS ARE NOT FIMILAR WITH PASHTO LANGUAGE" AND MAKING DECINION BLINLDY. As per i have attached all of them news sources websites, and they have shared Zwak New's news contents, and gave credibillty to Zwak News is the proof that Zwak News have Notability. For example, Khpalwaak is News site, And that have millions of Followers in Social Media, similarly, Vote.af is Owned by Pajhwok New Medai, and have wikipadia page here has shared Zwak News important News site, which can share Truth News about Afghanistan Election.

Secondly "conflict of interest" i was resovled this issue with other vulenteer in live chat, and he told me that you have done, cause he gave me insturction and followed them. If you think this wansn't the solution for Confict of Interest then i am ready to delete this article if there is no way for solving this error.

On behalf of my country i am sure, No one else can right this way good article and they have that much references. Cause our ppl are not fimilar with Tech, and Bisically you guys dont fimilar with pashto and can't judge sources in a good way.

I DON'T SAY THAT YOU GUYS ARE CUREL PEOPLE AND OR HAVING PERSONAL PROBLEM WITH ME!

THERE IS MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT MY ARTICLE AND REFERENCES.

Becaue there is 30% English in google and you may use google for prefereences.

So, please kindly, Approve my article!

1. Note: ZWAK NEWS SITE IS NEW, THEY WERE PRODUING OFFLINE SOURCES, APPROVE MY ARTICLE IF WE DIDN'T BRING MORE POWERFUL SOURCES IN A VERY SOON WHILE WHILE, DIFINILTY REMOVE ZWAK NEWS ARTICLE. ImanSalvador (talk) 17:41, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, ImanSalvador. Please read Referencing for beginners and the definition of a reliable source. Have you considered writing for the Pashto Wikipedia instead? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 18:07, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Please stop posting multiple threads about the same issue. Likewise, repeatedly posting here and at WP:AFCHD, and persistently blaming others without actually addressing the problems in your draft (about which you have been repeatedly told) is disruptive. --Kinu ^t/_c 18:22, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

See #My References are Relialble and I am Known as Well! - There is a language barrier here and he wants the English article first. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 10:04, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Article flagged for deletion

I am trying to add an amazing person who I met recently as an expert in his field. I made a post but this is the first time to do this for a person I am not understanding the process needed for a person of notable accomplishment. My post has been flagged for deletion. Could I get an expert to walk me through what I need to do to keep the post and to improve it. Lovinjapan (talk) 03:30, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Lovinjapan: hello and welcome to the teahouse. The article you wrote (Rogier Uitenboogaart) had some problems, which isn't surprising! Writing new articles on Wikipedia is one of the hardest things you can do. it got tagged by some other editors, but I have gone through and cleaned up the problems. I removed the list of projects as it was not sourced very well. He is definitely worthy of an article by our standard. Thank you for your contribution to Wikipedia. --- Possibly ☎ 07:10, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I see no history that the article was flagged for deletion. Editor Possibly and another editor removed content that was inappropriate. An image for the article was Speedy deleted because it was a copyright infringement. David notMD (talk) 10:23, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Draft

How can I delete the Draft wording out of my title? PRaktisch.at (talk) 08:04, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

If you had references to reliable sources independent of the subject, you could submit the draft for AFC review. but at present your only references are to the organisation's own website, so there is no evidence of the subject's notability. --David Biddulph (talk) 08:10, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

The process: You have created a draft. The next step is to submit it. In time (days, weeks, sadly as long as months) a reviewer will decide to accept, decline or reject. If accepted, the reviewer will remove "Draft" and it becomes an article. As DB pointed out, the draft in its current state will be declined, as the organization's own website does not convey notability. Also, be aware that if it does become an article, any editor will be able to edit it as long as valid refs are included. The organization will not "own" the article. David notMD (talk) 10:35, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Query on publishing an article

Dear Fellow editors,

I have published an article for editor review and it has been deleted based on conflict of interest. To be very honest, the page is about the founder of the C.F.T.R.I, Dr.V.Subrahmanyan and this article, I wanted to publish is intended to be an excerpt of the website, that is in progress. The content and the sources provided were all legit and I was having a problem in uploading the images, I intended to add as well. Please help me in this front. Thanks.

Regards, Subramani Krishnamurthy Dr.Subrahmanyan (talk) 09:06, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dr.Subrahmanyan: Welcome to the Teahouse. If you intend to publish an excerpt of the website, that isn't something that's allowed on Wikipedia per copyright concerns. Quoting is allowed, but it shouldn't be a substantial portion of the work.

As for the images, they can't have an unreleased copyright attached to them (unless they can be shown to meet all of the fair use criteria). The copyright holder of said images must release the copyright themselves; if that is you (i.e., you took the picture), then you would have to declare that you acknowledge that anyone can use those images for any reason, even for commercial purposes, so long as they attribute its source. If you don't hold the copyright, the holder must donate them via a process.

Finally, if you yourself are not Subrahmanyan, stop using this account, as this contravenes Wikipedia's username policy, and create one that doesn't imply that Subrahmanyan is using it. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 09:27, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Your draft was not deleted. Here it is. Your submission of it was declined. If by "excerpts" you mean what I think "excerpts" mean, then you run into a serious problem of copyright. However, even if you summarize the material in a way that could not be described as plagiarism or a copyright violation, Wikipedia is not much interested in what the organization Subrahmanyan founded says about him. Instead, you should base the article on sources independent of him. These (serious) matters aside, a look at your draft suggests a well-meaning but seriously underinformed attempt to create an article. Creating an article is hard, and if you attempt it without the experience of augmenting and improving some existing articles, the experience will be very frustrating for you. -- Hoary (talk) 09:32, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

After you start a new account with a new User name, ALL FACTS need to be verified by in-line references. See WP:Referencing for beginners. David notMD (talk) 10:50, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Image help

Hi, I was hoping to add a photo to https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Gareth_Reynolds so I got permission from the photographer and she gave me the information to properly credit her. This is the same photo that Gareth uses for his upcoming comedy show announcements, etc. Is that enough to use the photo? It got deleted but I'm not sure if I'm just doing it wrong or if there isn't a way to use that photo. Thanks. AnnieBee3 (talk) 10:51, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

It's not. You having the permission is irrelevant because we do not accept fair-use images of living people. Have the photographer go through the process at WP:Donating copyrighted materials instead. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 11:01, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm having a dispute about certain edits with someone.

So I've given proper sources for my edits, I've also specified my reason why I am adding these edits. But that person insists that I cannot add it at the beginning. I thought its necessary as its the popular theory of the origin of the ritual. Now he's resorted to tossing allegations. I had made a mistake before where I removed a line because I could not find proper sources for it. There is also this line which I removed because it was clearly false(the article referenced was saying the exact opposite of what was written), but he keeps reverting it and insisted that it's "important" content. Can this dispute be resolved reasonably? Somethingsomeoneqwerty (talk) 11:17, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Courtesy link: Sati (practice) - X201 (talk) 11:19, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

The place to discuss it is on the talk page of the article. --David Biddulph (talk) 11:20, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Assistance with a draft page

Friends, can someone assist me with this page - https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Draft:Artur_Aslanyan

I have read plenty on what constitutes as a "notability" and I am still stuck.

There are websites in my reference including Russian government and Russian Library, yet I still get a decline.

Could someone point me in the right direction to what am I doing wrong? Juliaevan (talk) 05:23, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Juliaevan. Have you read the essay here about what qualifies an academic (a description I think partly applies to Artur Aslanyan) as "notable" in Wikipedia's special meaning of the term, and does he fulfil one (or more) of the eight conditions listed?

If he does, the Draft/Article must describe how he does, and the text of that description must be cited to substantial mentions in Reliable sources (that are "published, reliable, secondary sources . . . independent of the subject").

On reading your draft, I think myself that his State Prize of the Russian Federation probably meets condition 2, and his involvement with Nafta College may meet conditions 6 and/or 7: however, I am not a reviewer, and I have not examined your existing sources.

A similar assessment can be made about him under the more general requirements of Wikipedia:Notability (people) with regard to his business and industrial activities, but it's less obvious to me whether he qualifies under those criteria.

I hope this helps. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.125.73.120 (talk) 12:15, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Editing a protected or Semi protected article

Hello please would like to edit a ssemi protected article .How do I go about that?I am adding a relevant video to it. Thank you Zend2020 (talk) 12:15, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

You may make an edit request on the article's talk page. Kleinpecan (talk) 12:18, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Your account meets the conditions for being autoconfirmed, so you can edit the article directly. --David Biddulph (talk) 12:21, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Copyright question

Hi,

For my work i want to take notes from Wikipedia content. For examples i want to take notes of the list of countries and largest cities of the world. Can i do it or do i need to attribute?

Thank you

You should always cite the sources. The Wikipedia article, or the original source which the Wikipedia article used, depending on what piece you are writing. EMsmile (talk) 11:59, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

IP editor: yes, you are very welcome to use any content from Wikipedia. It is freely licenced, but on condition that some form of attribution of citation is given. See WP:CITEWIKI. Doing this also benefits you and your audience; they can see where you have got your information from, and it can be checked out. I see so many 'unsupported statements' in the news media and on social media, that I have come to distrust all those who do not allow me to see where information has come from and to judge the factual accuracy for myself. There is also one note of caution to be mentioned: because we are user-edited, at only given point in time it is possible for one user to insert false information which has yet to be expunged. It's always worth checking the article's 'history' to see if there might be an ongoing disruptive edit war happening there which could affect the reliability of the content. Because we 'follow' rather than lead, our information may well be somewhat out of date when compared to official sources that we rely upon. So the wisdom of copying Wikipedia content should be based upon its intended use. Whilst I am happy to use Windows 10 at home, I would hope NASA rockets relied on more reliable operating systems to get us to the Moon or Mars. Best, Nick Moyes (talk) 12:33, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Confused: I attached references in my article that were later (and appreciated the assist) converted to links to Wikipedia pages...

Full transparency: First time published. I understood from the tutorials that using Wikipedia pages as references is a 'no no'. Edits to the article I published swapped several footnotes with links to Wikipedia pages. I'm trying to fix my understanding, so 1) Wikipedia pages can't be footnotes but they can be links, and 2) I should try to link to a Wikipedia page before creating a footnote? Thanks.Tchula65 (talk) 12:54, 12 July 2021 (UTC) Tchula65 (talk) 12:54, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Tchula65, Yes, linking to relevant Wikipedia articles is fine, but should never be used as a reference. S Philbrick(Talk) 13:00, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I assume you are talking about this edit. Citations on Wikipedia are intended to help verify that the information comes from a reliable source. In this case, however, it seems the citation was used not to verify the statement, but to explain what a broadside ballad is. In such cases it is better to link to the Wikipedia article about the topic instead of adding unrelated citations. Linking to relevant Wikipedia articles is acceptable and is encouraged: after all, linking to other pages is what the World Wide Web is about. Kleinpecan (talk) 13:29, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I need help adjusting an article

I recently got a denial in upload of an article of a notable Senior Advocate for some reason I really don't understand. Below is the message I got from the reviewer

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia. This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

The comment the reviewer left was: Lacks reliable, secondary sources. Many of the sources do little to indicate notability.

I don't quite understand what He meant by secondary source I cited every notable web content that attests to the Subject. Please can someone help me out so I can know what sources I should provide cos the subject is one of the top most influential Senior Advocate Of Nigeria and I wanted to publish an article on him. Mysticmindz (talk) 10:35, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Courtesy link: Draft:Mobolaji Ayorinde

@Mysticmindz:, welcome to the Teahouse. If you look at the message you received, it contains a number of links to Wikipedia policies and guidelines; I'll copy the message here with the links included:

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The word "secondary" is linked to a policy page that explains what Wikipedia means by "secondary". Please take a moment to read the information, and then you can come back here if anything is still unclear. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 10:55, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the response I would look into the suggestions and ask questions for more clarity. Mysticmindz (talk) 11:18, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Courtesy: Now at Draft:Mobolaji Ayorinde. David notMD (talk) 10:53, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Of the 26 references, can you identify at least three that you believe establish his notability? Most (all) appear to confirm his life, education, career as a lawyer, publications, appointed positions, minor awards, etc., but I am hard-pressed to find what makes him extraordinary. David notMD (talk) 11:01, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I appreciate your response Sir. If I get you correctly, you mean If I can provide citations showing more notable position/role in the society such as him been the current special adviser to the governor, a chief and a politician who recently was consider for post of the governor, it would suffice as secondary source to make him stand out. Also I have seen mention of him here on wiki but not as an article two instances are his detailed assets on Forbes and on a list of politician which ran for offices previous year,(I created this article from this particular list) please advice me on how I can incorporate this mentions Mysticmindz (talk) 11:29, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Running for office is not sufficient. Ditto a mention of financial assets by a Forbes article (wealth does not equate notability). Useful refs are articles written about him (not just brief mentions). Special adviser to the governor has potential. David notMD (talk) 13:34, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Why?

Why was my contribution to Conway's Game of Life taken? Should it have been in another list? 71.95.113.226 (talk) 04:01, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

You added this incomprehensible sentence to the rules list, hence reverted. "If there are cells that are near three, that are near three, that are near three... will always stay live." David notMD (talk) 10:29, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

And the correct rules were already stated so there was no reason to add anything. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:46, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

That, and a broken image was inserted. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:39, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Can I create "Listen to this article" recordings?

I recently saw that some articles have an audio file just after the introduction that is labelled as "Listen to this article", which acts about as you'd expect. Can anyone just create and add these recordings (like normal edits) or are there additional requirements? Thanks in advance :) Actualcpscm (talk) 16:00, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Actualcpscm, and welcome to the Teahouse. You can find information about making these recordings at WP:WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. --ColinFine (talk) 16:36, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

List of jazz pianists

Hello,

I am an administrator for Late Great Jazz Pianists on Facebook and study everything do do with jazz piano and its history.

How may I add influential (living or deceased) pianists to the 'List of jazz pianists'?

Thank you, Chris Grand88Upright (talk) 16:24, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Grand88Upright, note first that the list is for people with WP-articles. If you know of jazz pianists with WP-articles that are missing from that list you can add them, WP:TUTORIAL can get you started. Otherwise you have to create a WP-article for the person first, and such an article will only be kept on WP if it's done right and meets the demands of WP:BASIC/WP:NMUSICIAN. If that is something you want to spend time learning how to do, start with reading WP:TUTORIAL, WP:BLP and WP:YFA. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:44, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Juvenile offences, is it fair to mention them?

I've encountered a situation where I don't know what to do, as I don't know WP's viewpoint and policy. I'm having a bit of a content debate at Max Miller (Ohio politician) over a sentence that describes how Miller was arrested for various offences, and also had a misleading LinkedIn account. There is little doubt of this; it's all sourced to the Washington Post. But the issue is this: while discussing the sourcing with another editor, I realised that these offences must have been committed at really quite a young age. Clearly the Washington Post felt it was fair and relevant to drag them up again, but does WP have a policy on when it is fair game to bring up a person's teenage misdemeanours in an article on their adult existence, or do we feel that a person's childhood is their own secret - that we hold an adult responsible for their own actions only after age 18, and accept that many of us did things before that, that aren't really relevant to our adult careers? I'm not sure what's right... Elemimele (talk) 17:30, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Elemimele. Your concerns about the juvenile offenses are valid. However, the most important issue is whether this person is notable at this time. They do not appear to pass the notability guideline for politicians as an unelected candidate for a seat that may be eliminated due to redistricting. As I see it, Miller should be covered briefly in a neutral article about the 2022 race in that congressional district. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 17:48, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh, that makes sense. I hadn't thought of it from that angle; I'd just assumed that as a Trump-appointed official who'd had a few different roles, he qualified as notable. I think I'll take a step back from that article and let it develop (or indeed disappear) as the 2022 race develops/disappears. At the moment I can't find any particularly edifying references about the race, just a load of argument over which of the candidates actually lives in the area, argument that will probably not stand the test of time. Thanks for the explanation and advice, it'll help me next time. Elemimele (talk) 19:51, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I wanted to chime in and offer my 2 cents by bringing to your attention WP:UNDUE which may provide some clarity on how much coverage should focus on a trivial part of someone's life (for example if a teenage thug turned his life around and became CEO of an international company, 90% of the article should focus on his later adult life and any teenage setbacks should be kept to a bare minimum). LaceyUF (talk) 23:00, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks @LaceyUF:, that's a really useful article. In this chap's case, his sole role at the moment seems to be as a political football for the newspapers to kick; whenever I find an article about him, it's because a newspaper has gone looking for some way they can make him look bad. This makes it quite difficult to be neutral, as the main sources aren't trying to be neutral. I am coming to the conclusion that US politics is not for the faint hearted. I shall return to debating priories in Suffolk, it's less stressful. Elemimele (talk) 17:35, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Citing page numbers in PDF book

I want to cite this book, in which the PDF file has one set of page numbers (those that #page=x would refer to; these start with the cover as page 1), but there is a different set of page numbers at the bottom of each page's text (with the start of the first chapter as page 1 and everything before it numbered with Roman numerals or not at all). Which of these should I use to give a page number in the citation? - 73.195.249.93 (talk) 18:04, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

You should use the page numbers printed in the text, as it's that work you're citing, not the specific PDF you're linking which conveys that work. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 18:06, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Assistance with a draft page

Hello! I'm hoping for some help with this page: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Draft:David_Jarrett_Collins

It was rejected due to puffery, and I edited it to remove that, and make it as objective as possible. But it was rejected a second time, so I think maybe I'm not understanding what needs to be done. If anyone was able to look and help me, I would be so appreciative. Thank you! UKI2020 (talk) 20:58, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

UKI2020,

I didn't have to read beyond the first sentence although I did read beyond. Some of the prose is fine, but the opening sentence sounds like something a PR firm would write.

The section starting "in 1973" contains some interesting information about industry but this no tie to the subject of the article beyond the fact that it's discussing the industry in which he worked.

Did he develop the barcode software used for the Macintosh? If so it isn't mentioned if not why is it here? S Philbrick(Talk) 22:08, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Sphilbrick,

Thank you for your comments. I will edit this again. Would you be willing to read one more time before I republish to hopefully avoid another decline? Regarding the mac, his company did develop the barcode software for the Apple Macintosh. --UKI2020 (talk) 22:22, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

UKI2020, in addition to the matter of puffery, there's the matter of prolixity. A sample:

During his remarks, Collins recalled the history of Automatic Car Identification (ACI), and of car marking. He testified that at the time of the hearings over 50 million digit stripes had been applied to the cars, costing about $25 million, and running at least a year behind the original deployment schedule. Collins testified as to the importance of focusing on the rail terminal rather than the rail main line for installation of scanning equipment. Such automated equipment had been installed in Chicago on the Illinois Central Railroad, which captured the movement of all rolling equipment through the terminal and would permit terminal managers to do a far better job eliminating mis-loads or lost car situations. Collins' submitted a written statement and in testimony he recounted a predicted improvement in Postal Services through the use of the technology:

"[...] the emphasis in the use of data control in transportation has been to get a higher yield or a higher utility out of facilities, whether the facilities are fixed plant or rolling stock. The Post Office or Postal Service has just recently contracted for the use of this technology, automatic truck identification in this case, but using the same lable [sic] and the same technology for the Oakland bulk mail handling facility. This system will cost $900,000. Here you have a $50 million postal terminal, including the physical building itself, the mechanical handling system of the bulk mail inside, and the parking and the control system for the arrival and departure of the trucks. To spend 2 percent of the facility cost on a control system which controls the funnel or the throat through which all of the product comes into and must exit from ... is not a bad ratio of investment."

Can't you reduce the bulk by 80% or so? -- Hoary (talk) 22:32, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Hoary,

Thank you, helpful! I have removed much content that is not as directly relevant, I hope that helps. Would you be willing to take another look, please? Thank you so much. --UKI2020 (talk) 22:47, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

UKI2020, I skimread "Background". If it were properly referenced, it wouldn't be prolix; however, it's completely unreferenced, giving me no reason to believe that any of it is true. And so I gave up. All content must be reliably sourced. -- Hoary (talk) 23:09, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Turn some (all?) of the Further Reading into references. And reference everything that is not referenced. David notMD (talk) 00:04, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Hoary, David notMD,

Thank you both. I've added several more references and removed everything that I could not find a reference for. For example, I could not find a source with his birthplace, so I removed it. I also moved all but three of the Further Reading bullets into references in the main post. Found a new article that had been published since my last revision, so added that as a reference as well. Better? Thank you for your help! --UKI2020 (talk) 17:01, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Hoary, David notMD,

I've hopefully made all the needed changes. Thank you for your help. Do you think it's ready for me to resubmit? --UKI2020 (talk) 20:13, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

UKI2020, yes, you could submit it again at this point. -- Hoary (talk) 11:59, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Hoary, David not MD, Ok - thank you - I've resubmitted. Again, thanks for all your help in this process! UKI2020 (talk) 18:17, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Can any experienced editor check my sandbox - Hyperlink InfoSystem?

 Courtesy link: User:Wikiewik/sandbox

I've created a short draft. Can someone review it? I believe this company is notable and my draft is neutral. Wikiewik (talk) 19:26, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Submitted 12 July and Declined 12 July. Your 'references' are basically versions of 2020 corporate press releases. One had this disclaimer at the bottom: "No Deccan Chronicle journalist was involved in creating this content. The group also takes no responsibility for this content." Thus, fails notability. David notMD (talk) 20:10, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

How to check if a eopard Gecko is pregnant ?

 Yo17h2 (talk) 16:38, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Yo17h2: Welcome to the Teahouse. This isn't the proper place to ask questions like these; you should try the reference desk. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:41, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Leopard geckos are viviparious? I thought they laid eggs. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 20:40, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Where can I report the conduct of admins?

If I find that an admin is not doing his work properly and he is involved in biased moderation, where can I report him? 223.180.194.186 (talk) 05:58, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

The first thing to do if you have any disagreement with another editor (whether they're an admin is irrelevant) is open a discussion on their talk page. If you cannot reach agreement then by all means bring the matter back to the Teahouse so that other editors can contribute to the discussion. Thinking in terms of "reporting" someone is not helpful until you have done that.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 06:40, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

The best place to report this is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents, but be sure that you are prepared to present solid and persuasive evidence, and be aware that your own behavior will come under scrutiny. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:17, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@ Cullen328, And whats the guarantee that the admin won't take revenge for reporting him by clicking the block button? There should be a separate forum for reporting admins. I am literally fedup of the current moderation system of Wikipedia. 223.180.193.18 (talk) 09:17, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

There are no guarantees, but I very much doubt such a thing would happen. If it did, you could bring that up in an unblock request and it would be reviewed. 331dot (talk) 09:26, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

The nature of your query posted as an IP suggests that you do have a registered account and have a specific Administrator's actions in mind. Teahouse host might be more helpful if you named the article(s) in question, despite your abovementioned concern. Administrators are not infallible, nor unreproachable. David notMD (talk) 10:40, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@ 331dot & David notMD: Thanks for showing concern. I wish to clarify that I am not a blocked user but I haven't logged in to my profile because I don't want to be harassed by a group of biased admins. These admins have some clear anti-India and anti-Hindu bias. I have too many names in mind but I wish to bring the conduct of RegentsPark to your notice. Last year, in April 2020, he made an edit to Talk:2020 Delhi riots. In this edit, he deliberately removed the comment of another admin Abecedare without explanation. Its clear that this removal from RegentsPark was done in bad faith and his motive behind this edit was to hide from other users a conversation on the talk page of Abecedare. Now, I await some action on RegentsPark for not doing his job of admin with impartiality and sincerity. 106.210.106.77 (talk) 09:04, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

You are free to use WP:ANI as already noted, but you will need clear evidence of your claims, and be aware that the entire situation will be looked at. This board is not meant for bringing up grievances with other editors. 331dot (talk) 10:46, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

If he removed the comment of another admin, the other admin will surely have noticed, and can be relied upon to decide if the problem is worth further discussion. If there were to decide not to, they presumably have a good reason, and you should think very carefully indeed before you involve yourself in what sounds like somebody else's quarrel. DGG ( talk ) 09:43, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

• I understand a specific question has been asked and a specific reply should be given after-all, this is indeed the Teahouse but my question is why has no one expressly and painstakingly explained to them that if they go to the ANI that they are most likely going to get hit with a boomerang? especially since they have already casted aspersions by referring to the admin as being anti India?. Celestina007 (talk) 21:52, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

help in renaming a page to publish

Dear reader,We need help to change the title of a page "Madinah.Award" so that we can publish it. Please we need to change the title of the page. As the archived help pages recommend to use the Move tool, which we don't have. please help with this. thank you in advance Madinah.Award (talk) 22:17, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Madinah.Award hello and welcome to the Teahouse, first thing is, you need to change your username as it is against policy to use a promotional username. Secondly I noticed you made use of the plural “we” as opposed to the singular “I” , do you have more than one account or share this account with someone else? If yes please discontinue both actions because here, policy mandates us to use only one account (except for reasons covered under WP:LEGITSOCK) and not share our account with third party. Attend to the aforementioned before we discuss your question. Furthermore reading our WP:COI policy may prove helpful for/to you. Celestina007 (talk) 22:33, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Madinah.Award: If you are referring to User:Madinah.Award/sandbox, the draft contains copyvio issues, meaning that you may have copied and pasted from another source that doesn't comply with licenses on Wikipedia. (earwig) Justiyaya 22:40, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Madinah.Award:, you also drafted an article on your user page. You may not use your user page for this purpose. And you did so in Arabic, whereas this is the English-language Wikipedia. (Arabic-language Wikipedia is at ar.wiki.x.io.) -- Hoary (talk) 22:44, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Madinah.Award: - please do not post requests for help in multiple places, as you did at the help desk and here. You're getting the same answer, but making twice as much work for other volunteers. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 23:00, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia reliability?

why is wikipedia not trusted

Hello, IP editor. I added a heading to your question. The info at Reliability_of_Wikipedia and Wikipedia:General_disclaimer might answer your question. If you want to use info from Wikipedia, look for the citation in the article for it, and go to that source instead. RudolfRed (talk) 20:52, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

• @156.1.40.96, hello and welcome to the Teahouse. “why is wikipedia not trusted” you ask? this is not necessarily true but is however a philosophical stance held by a certain group of people, especially those in academia, Wikipedia is arguably the most popular website on earth and it is literally a go to for first hand information by most people. Academics are skeptical about Wikipedia and their opinion is their prerogative, When I was a teenager teaching English in Nigeria, I warned my students not to ever use Wikipedia to get information for assignments I gave them, I was an ignorant teenager then but now I know better, I can tell you that Wikipedia is indeed a reliable place to source for information. You see we do not just unilaterally write what we think, we rely on reliable sources and basically summarize (in our own words) what has already been reported by reliable sources. Celestina007 (talk) 21:30, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Celestina007: Please be careful with your wording. Wikipedia is not a reliable source in the Wikipedia sense of that term, because the content is all user generated. RudolfRed (talk) 22:00, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@RudolfRed, Please take time to read before replying and do not misrepresent my comments nor take them out of context. I never mentioned that Wikipedia was a reliable source to them, I made an explanation to them about how Wikipedia works and in no where did I expressly tell them that Wikipedia is a reliable source. So it’s like I mentioned earlier, Please do not rush to reply without assimilating, it’s counter productive. Celestina007 (talk) 22:11, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Celestina007: You may wish to reconsider your wording "I can tell you that Wikipedia is indeed a reliable place to source for information." It is not surprising that RudolfRed interpreted it the way he did, and we wouldn't want new users to be confused by your reply. --David Biddulph (talk) 23:48, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@David Biddulph, I do appreciate how the wording can be misinterpreted, or misleading, without disagreeing with you, or wanting to speak on this any longer/elongating this, what I was implying or trying to make them understand that Wikipedia relies on reliable sources for its content and we do not unilaterally write what we think outta the blues rather we summarize what has already been reported by reliable sources. I did not expressly tell them Wikipedia is a reliable source to be used, but that information contained in Wikipedia articles are not necessarily unreliable because they are based on RS. I however do take responsibility for any misunderstanding. Celestina007 (talk) 00:20, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Corporate notability and reliable sources

I'm really confused about why my draft ( https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Draft:Superloop_(telecommunications_company) ) was rejected. The notes mention using what "independent reliable sources have written about the subject" but that's what I thought I had? The references used are articles about the company from varied external and reputable news sources. When I look at similar pages (like this one: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Exetel or this one: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Aussie_Broadband) where a high percentage of the references are internal, I'm really confused about what's different about my submission? Can someone please help me better understand so I can make the appropriate edits? Zombiesmith (talk) 23:12, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Zombiesmith, hello and welcome to the Teahouse, a brief glance of the draft article and I noticed it read more like a "page" than an article, I haven’t had a look at the sources but even if you made use of reliable sources, if it reads like a promotional page it would be outrightly rejected, in your case the draft article was declined and not rejected. Please read both WP:NPOV and WP:RS. Furthermore saying article abc is exactly like my article xyz so it should be retained on mainspace or accepted is an argument to avoid. Celestina007 (talk) 23:21, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Celestina007 Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it. My reasoning for bringing up the other articles was more to get a better sense of why something similar has been approved so that I can better emulate those rather than an excuse for mine to be accepted, so apologies for the lack of clarity there. The feedback in the declined article doesn't mention point of view, only notability and references, hence my confusion. I totally take on board the POV feedback and can work on this, but I'm still unclear about what's wrong with the references I used as this was the main cause noted for declining the article.

@Zombiesmith, I’m retiring to bed now it is 1:53am in the nation I currently reside in, and by 4:30 am I have to be in my office place. Please 331dot could you be of assistance to them? Celestina007 (talk) 00:50, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Zombiesmith Hello. I see that you declared a COI(thanks); if you work for the company, you will need to make the stricter paid editing declaration. Regarding your draft, it just tells about the company and what it does. Wikipedia articles must do more, they must summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about the company, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable company. Wikipedia is not interested in what the company says about itself, but in what others completely unconnected with the company have chosen on their own to say about it. Most of your sources seem to be press release-type stores or announcements of routine business activities, these things do not establish notability. 331dot (talk) 00:58, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Teahouse and experience

Can experienced users go in the Teahouse? I'm not experienced. The Master of Hedgehogs (talk) 16:56, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

As I understand it, everyone is welcome in the Teahouse. We inexperienced users can ask questions, and the experienced ones can answer them. And people tend to be nice and tolerant round here! Elemimele (talk) 17:38, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@The Master of Hedgehogs, hello and welcome to the Teahouse, I’m sorry your question is open to multiple interpretations, do you mean you want to become a Teahouse host? Or do you mean if you can ask questions here? Per the former, when you are well versed in policy you most definitely could become a host. Per the latter, you are always welcome to ask questions here and we are more than willing to be of assistance to you. Do you have any more questions? Celestina007 (talk) 22:18, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm a Teahouse host and I still ask the occasional question here if it's in an area where I feel completely new (printing articles was one example) Nosebagbear (talk) 01:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@The Master of Hedgehogs: Welcome to the Teahouse. Yes, experienced users can ask questions about how to use and edit Wikipedia here just like newbies, but there's also the help desk, which doesn't have the "training wheels" the Teahouse has. Answers here are typically given as if the asker has no clue about Wikipedia lingo, whereas at the help desk you'll see shortcuts like MOS:ITALICS and WP:BLUE thrown out more often. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:27, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Image eligibility for Wikipedia

FYI

 – Heading added. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:30, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

What images can you use for Wikipedia? Can you use images marked for "editorial use only"? Ontofilm (talk) 00:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Ontofilm, hello and welcome to the Teahouse, i take it that you are one and the same person as the IP? Please indicate otherwise if I’m wrong, could you explain your question better? I’m having a hard time comprehending your question, what article do you have in mind? However I’d reply you from what I think you make reference to, images you add to articles should typically be yours and if not should meet a fair use rationale. Furthermore you mention adding links to a “page” i take it you mean adding sources? No? if yes, please see WP:REFB and WP:CITE. Celestina007 (talk) 00:24, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Ontofilm: Welcome to the Teahouse. There are some groups of images that are allowed on Wikipedia (there's more info at Image use policy):

• Copyright-waived images: If the image's copyright has been waived by its holder (easiest would be if you created the image yourself), then it can be added to Wikipedia. If you're not the holder, they must fill out a form that can be found at Donating copyrighted materials.
• Public domain images: The image is proven to be in the public domain, which follows US law.
• Fair use: The image satisfies all 10 fair use criteria.
• Free licence images: Images are also released for commercial use. This is a little tricky to navigate as some licenses are okay while others aren't (CC-BY-SA (ok) versus CC-BY-SA-NC (not ok), for example).

To your second question, the answer is almost certainly going to be "no", as its use appears to be restricted beyond Wikipedia's goal of reproducing "free" content. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:41, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

You may use images that either are in the public domain (as this is not popularly but legally understood) or that have been explicitly released under one or other of a very restricted selection of copyleft licenses. (In very strictly defined circumstances you may also claim "fair use" for other kinds of image, but let's not get into this now.) No, you may not use images marked "editorial use only". -- Hoary (talk) 01:45, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

My Post Wont Save

I was trying to make a post but it keeps saying "Saving Post Failed" and I can't figure out why. Here is the link to where I was trying to post it https://creatures-of-sonaria-official.fandom.com/f I have no idea if I did this right but here it goes XD Welp when I went to preview it said that the page doesnt exist so I;ll just say what it was: It was the discuss page in the Creatures of Sonaria wiki

https:// creatures-of-sonaria-official.fandom .com/f

Theres not supposed to be spaces but I was hoping that it would actually appear if I added spaces Oop forgot to log in before putting this but my user is xxhsstar and I was logged in well trying to do the post 2001:569:BD34:E000:F84D:359:F569:C5BF (talk) 03:49, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

The Teahouse is only for questions about the English Wikipedia. Hopefully the Creatures of Sonaria wiki has a similar help page where you can ask this question. Good luck! GoingBatty (talk) 03:52, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Revision history

Is there a way to have the revision history of a page show 500 edits by default? Is there any way to change it?Sizzlemydizzle (talk) 04:45, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Page Removal

I have been asked to have the following article removed completely:

https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Caroline_Joan_S._Picart

Dr. Caroline Picart doesn't want her information on Wikipedia. How can this be accomplished?

I am extremely unfamiliar with the workings of Wikipedia and hope this is the right place to ask.

Thank you in advance. Klborschel (talk) 06:27, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Klborschel. Caroline Joan S. Picart is an academic who has written about 16 books, each an invitation to comment on her work. She also had a radio show.. Why do you think that an encyclopedia article about her should be deleted? Hasn't she put herself forward as a public figure? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:33, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Klborschel: She doesn't get a say in the matter. Even if it were deleted, someone else would notice she doesn't have an article and create it again. Now, if there are inaccuracies in the article, we can certainly address those, but asking for it to be deleted wholesale is a nonstarter. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 06:36, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

An article can't be removed simply because the biographee wants it removed. However, a biographee may reasonably object to it in whole or in part. If Dr Picart does object, she should look at the information at the top of this "help" page. -- Hoary (talk) 06:58, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Jivanpran Abajibapashri

FYI

 – Title added by Qwerfjkl (talk) 06:44, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Please help to Re-edit my Draft:Jivanpran Abajibapashri  Sahaj01 (talk) 05:50, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Sahaj01, Clearfrienda has rejected Draft:Jivanpran Abajibapashri. Re-editing it is not going to work. Please forget about this draft. -- Hoary (talk) 07:03, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Looking for cat lovers helping us in writing an article

Dear Wiki-writer Community,

Are you a big cat lover and maybe want to help us write an article about the first pan-European Cat Sitting Community?

We are Catinaflat.com, a UK-born start-up of two self-made female entrepreneurs. We exist in 8 countries and 3 languages across Europe now. We are happy to provide your with any information material or a first draft or any background information.

It would be great if we find some help here or if one of you could point us into the "write" direction =^.^=

Thanks,

Kathrin and Julie

And here are some of our publications over the last few years

UK

• https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/03/cat-in-a-flat-cat-sitting-service_n_8459862.html
• https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-46600135
• https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/27/how-to-protect-your-christmas-tree-from-your-cat-8181784/
• https://www.cityam.com/kitty-kitty-entrepreneurs-turning-cat-loving-into-business/
• https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/forget-working-can-make-money-looking-dogs-cats/
• https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-4253588/Would-use-Cat-Flat-AirBnB-pets.html#ixzz4nUDBTAz9
• https://londoncheapo.com/lifestyle/cat-in-a-flat-cat-sitting-london/
• https://katzenworld.co.uk/2016/11/01/cattalks-with-cat-in-a-flat-international-cat-care/
• https://www.savethestudent.org/make-money/how-to-make-money-pet-sitting.html
• https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/travel/2019/02/tech-traveller-animal-travels
• https://www.lovemoney.com/guides/80722/cat-sitting-how-safe-is-it-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-much-can-you-earn-tax
• https://www.lovemoney.com/guides/80722/cat-sitting-how-safe-is-it-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-much-can-you-earn-tax
• https://www.her-career.com/kathrin-burkhardt/
• https://uk.godaddy.com/blog/celebrating-international-womens-day-spotlight-cat-in-a-flat/
• https://www.startupvalley.news/de/cat-in-a-flat-katzenbesitzer-katzen/
• https://ukinvestormagazine.co.uk/cat-in-a-flat-begins-crowdfunding-campaign-on-crowdcube/
• https://www.companybug.com/success-story-making-a-niche-business-a-success/
• https://sifted.eu/articles/cat-tech-vc-opportunity/
• https://www.mybaba.com/axel-scheffler-interview/
• https://www.discoveranimals.co.uk/news/axel-scheffler-friends-2020-calendar-competition-interview/
• https://www.femalefirst.co.uk/features/axel-schefflers-new-project-cat-in-a-flat-helps-raise-money-for-endangered-cats-1220116.html
• https://fundraising.co.uk/2020/01/13/from-swimwear-to-gin-7-products-raising-funds-for-good-causes/

Germany

• https://t3n.de/news/gruenderinnen-startups-853862/
• https://mitvergnuegen.com/2018/mit-cat-in-a-flat-finden-katzenbesitzer-den-passenden-sitter-fuer-die-urlaubszeit/
• https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/katzen-und-menschen-die-lust-an-der-unterwerfung/24527066.html
• https://365bristol.com/story/2017/10/19/cat-in-a-flat-bristol-become-or-find-a-trusted-cat-sitter-in-your-area/5752/
• https://www.kostenlos.de/cat-in-a-flat-geschenk

Recent Awards

• https://www.thedrum.com/news/2016/09/15/national-trust-and-zone-two-the-big-winners-bima-awards-2016
• https://sifted.eu/articles/unleashed-accelerator-assessment/
• https://beststartup.co.uk/londons-best-local-companies-to-work-for-and-buy-from/ 91.64.148.28 (talk) 10:17, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

I do not speak English well enough to start a new article, but I want to say this is the most respectful to Wikipedia rules and best prepared move I've ever seen from any business to get an article about them started. --CiaPan (talk) 11:18, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Would it be possible to display a "updated (number of days) ago" with a userscript like it is on mobile Wikipedia?

If I look at Example on Wikipedia Mobile, it shows that the most recent edit was 112 days ago. How could I replicate this with a user script? I looked at the Wikipedia API and I was stumped. -1ctinus📝🗨 01:28, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

1ctinus:

document.getElementById('footer-info-lastmod').innerHTML.replace( /This page was last edited on ([^,]*).*/, "$1")

returns "22 March 2021". If you convert that to a timestamp and subtract it from a current timestamp, you could calculate the number of days and insert it with

document.getElementById('footer-info-lastmod').innerHTML = 'etc days ago'

. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:38, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

1ctinus, if you'd rather use the API you're looking at https://en.wiki.x.io/w/api.php?action=query&titles=Example&prop=revisions&rvprop=timestamp. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 02:44, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@1ctinus The XTools gadget shows the time of the last edit, with a link to the diff, at the top of the page. ―Qwerfjkltalk 06:47, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Alexis Jazz @Qwerfjkl Here is what I ended up doing:

if ($("#ca-edit").length > 0){
$("#ca-edit").children(1).text(Math.floor((new Date() - new Date($("#footer-info-lastmod").html().split("on ")[1].split(", at")[0])) / 86400000) + " Days ago")
}

There is a flash of it just saying "edit" like it normally does, but I don't think you can fix that with the nature of userscripts. There is also a chance that I did not implement it properly because I put the JS here. -1ctinus📝🗨 13:02, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Publishing a new article in Wikipedia

Hi, I just drafted an article in the sandbox User:SafetySpeak!/sandbox What is the next step to publish it as an article in Wikipedia? SafetySpeak! (talk) 07:49, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

SafetySpeak! Hello and welcome. I have added the appropriate information to your draft to allow you to submit it for review. I did notice that one of your sources is Wikipedia itself, that is not permitted as Wikipedia is not a reliable source. You could use wherever that Wikipedia article gets its information as a source, but not the article itself.

From the text I gather that you have some sort of association with the topic; if so, please review conflict of interest and paid editing. 331dot (talk) 08:22, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your inputs, 331dot. I have changed the Wikipedia source to a more appropriate and reliable source. I am associated with the topic, but not paid. I checked the link but couldn't understand how to declare. I believe I have to copy and paste the "connected contributor" in the article somewhere. Is that correct? Kindly help.

SafetySpeak! There are formal ways to declare, but if you simply write a statement describing the nature of your COI on your user page(User:SafetySpeak!) that will be sufficient. Note that you don't have to be specifically paid to edit to be a paid editor. If you are an employee, that counts. 331dot (talk) 09:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks again {u|331dot}}. I have added a statement on my user page.SafetySpeak! (talk) 09:23, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Draft deleted for copyright infringement. Information must be in your own words, not taken from any published source. David notMD (talk) 13:11, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Enough proof to correct an article?

It says on the Heineken page that Gerard Adriaan Heineken convinced his wealthy mother to buy De Hooiberg brewery in Amsterdam. However in a letter that has surfaced in the Amsterdam archives, it is clear that he does not ask his mother for funding. Is this proof enough to correct this reference?

Letter: https://www.amsterdam.nl/stadsarchief/stukken/werk/heineken/

Story: https://www.theheinekencompany.com/translated-letter-ga-heineken

Translation: https://www.theheinekencompany.com/translated-letter-ga-heineken Occasionalpedestrian (talk) 10:49, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Occasionalpedestrian: Of course the available documents need to be presented with proper references, preferably to secondary sources. However, if the story is well known so that it became a part of a popular history, it should be mentioned in the article, too, especially if it's well sourced (I didn't check that). --CiaPan (talk) 11:12, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

What about the things he wrote in the other letter? - X201 (talk) 11:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@CiaPan: @X201: Is there another letter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Occasionalpedestrian (talk • contribs) 11:24, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't know. I was just making the point that this is only one letter. It can sit alongside the existing info, but it doesn't override it. - X201 (talk) 13:13, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Need Jalgaon district article clean-up

I added some information in Jalgaon district article. But think a native speaker should take a look at it, for grammar and tone. Huge Earth (talk) 13:43, 11 July 2021 (UTC) It will be ok, if we made separate sub section on Tourist places or Tourist attractions in this article and moved info of Geography section's Temples and Tourist attractions in it.If you can feel free to do it WP : BOLD Huge Earth (talk) 14:13, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

My own page

Please can I get my own page? Devikapil (talk) 12:46, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Devikapil: Welcome to the Teahouse. If you're considered notable by Wikipedia's standards, perhaps someone will create an article on you. It's strongly recommended that you don't write about yourself. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:38, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

You can, however, create a userpage. ―Qwerfjkltalk 15:52, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

How to request wikipedia's authorities / administrators ?

I want to have an article on Wikipedia about a personality, but I myself don't want to draft any article. How should or what should I do to request Wikipedia's authorities or any of the administrators to make them look into the requests for articles' topics? ManaliJain (talk) 16:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi ManaliJain, if you want to request an article, you might want to look at WP:RA. Please make sure that your article has atleast 2 reliable sources providing significant coverage to the topic (WP:GNG). Justiyaya 16:07, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Alright, thanks! ManaliJain (talk) 16:10, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

How can I re-direct one page to another?

Hello there! I was wondering how I would be able to redirect one page to another page, specifically the Alien Enemies Act to the Alien and Sedition Act (the former is a part of the latter.) AurumIsGold (talk) 16:17, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi AurumIsGold, you can redirect a page by adding #REDIRECT [[target page name here]] to the article. In your specific situation, I don't think you should redirect the article to the other article without previous community consensus. Justiyaya 16:24, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

How to move my draft page to live?

 Kwmsond (talk) 16:22, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Kwmsond, if you are referring to Draft:Mohammadpur Khala, Barabanki, Uttar Pradesh, you shouldn't move it in to mainspace because the article probably contains issues relating to the article's notability, tone and formatting. The article may be deleted due to these issues. I would personally recommend reading and going through Help:Introduction Justiyaya 16:38, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Can I use this site?

I found a site (this one) which contains the notice of the administrative accounts of Île-de-France of 2017. But the site provides a link to 'download' the notice, not to 'show it directly' on the site. Due to safety concerns, I prefer not to cite the downloaded file in my draft but the site which is providing the notice. Is it ok? Excellenc1📞 15:08, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Excellenc1: Citing information from downloaded sources can be a little tricky. If the site itself is trustworthy, it shouldn't be an issue to use as the URL the direct link that triggers the download. Otherwise, you can link to the page from which the download is available; just make sure it's clear from the title etc. in the reference which link to click so that others can find where you got the info. So long as you do that, the info is verifiable and acceptable to use. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 16:45, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

too precise

Previous discussion : Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1113#time at beginning and end

I have received notifications about previous edits being too precise. I thought being precise and accurate was important in Wikipedia. One of the edits, while it may be precise, was actually reverted back to text which has an incorrect time length, if you read carefully. Does anyone have suggestions on what to do as I do not want to engage in edit warring? Thanks! 73.167.238.120 (talk) 15:48, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi IP, welcome to the teahouse, and thank you for asking for suggestions about your edits. If someone reverted your edits, discuss with them on the article talk page, or their talk page. I have looked through some of your edits and the reason that they are reverted is that you provided excessive detail. For example, Gene93k reverted this edit because a reader probably can make the assumption that the event of the article happened in less than a few hours, and providing a p.m. at the end will not be necessary. Please consider creating an account. Justiyaya 16:56, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Los Angeles Lakers

Hello i am new and I want to know how to make a new page for the Lakers so like there 2020-21 season just ended and I want to know how to make there new page for the 2021-22 Los Angeles Lakers season. Poolison 2000 (talk) 16:54, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Poolison 2000, great idea, I don't think the season meets the notability guideline (2 reliable sources that provide significant coverage) just yet, assuming that it does, you might want to read WP:1st, the help page basically guides you through creating your first article. Justiyaya 17:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

I need help

About these lines. A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. It may require cleanup to comply with Wikipedia's content policies, particularly neutral point of view. Please discuss further on the talk page. (July 2021) (Learn how and when to remove this template message) ==

A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. It may require cleanup to comply with Wikipedia's content policies, particularly neutral point of view. Please discuss further on the talk page. (July 2021) (Learn how and when to remove this template message) . Why i am getting this ? how to solve? Navidulhuq (talk) 16:22, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Navidulhuq: Welcome to the teahouse. The template message is basically saying that the article might not be written in a neutral tone and that a contributor that written parts fo the article might be connected to the subject, in other words, they have a conflict of interest with the subject of the article. You can remove the template when the article has a neutral tone. Justiyaya 16:31, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Navidulhuq Contrary to what Justiyaya wrote, do not remove the COI tag from Rubana Huq, as you are the person who has recently been adding content to the article and are connected to the subject, i.e., her son. So, leave it. Ideally, in time, other editors will add (or subtract) content from the article, and one will decide that it valid to remove the tag. David notMD (talk) 17:02, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

What's 4 tildes

Using 4 tildes

I don't know how I can use this . Im taking a look at preferences and either I see at signing field. I am clicking at 4 tildes link but I don't still know how you use that tildes for signing. What is signing? I am newcomer and I guess set signing as Etiseeu — Preceding unsigned comment added by Etiseeu (talk • contribs) 19:03, July 13, 2021 (UTC)

Use ~~~~ to generate a signature and a timestamp. Meters (talk) 19:17, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Etiseeu 19:19, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Yup, that's it. See WP:SIG for more. Meters (talk) 19:21, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. I Just wrote ~~~~ and I understood how nowiki works :)

Add a signature after every talk page post. You can indent talk page posts by starting a line with one or more : .This line was started with one, and the next line will be started with two.

Two colons Meters (talk) 19:24, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

thank you Meters. I am trying out.

Etiseeu 19:29, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Added objective true information and it was rejected

Although my first edit to add a magazine to the Boomer (disambiguation) page may have used detail that seemed promotional (although it was not intended to be), I went back and simply added a listing that was not promotional. So why was it deleted again?

Another edit to Amherst, Virginia, was also informational and entirely accurate, not promotional, and was also deleted.

Please clarify. Annietinva (talk) 18:52, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Annietinva: Lists and disambiguation pages must have some sort of inclusion criteria, or else they'll get swamped with non-encyclopedic information. For many of them, the criteria is that there must be a Wikipedia article about them first (see WP:YFA). Do not add inline external links (see WP:EL). ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 19:42, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Annietinva: Disambiguation pages exist to list Wikipedia articles with similar titles, to help people searching in Wikipedia to find what they're looking for. You added an external link as an entry in that page, which was inappropriate. Your addition to Amherst, Virginia, by introducing an external link into the text of the article, controverted WP:ELPOINTS #2. I have to say that, to judge by your edits, you seem to be here for no purpose other than promoting some magazine called Boomer. If that magazine is not notable enough to have a Wikipedia article about it, it's probably not notable enough to have its Web site linked to anywhere in Wikipedia. Deor (talk) 19:51, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Template:Section link: Undocumented behaviour

Hi,

I think there may be a minor bug in said template, in that multiple optional parameters work fine each by themselves but lead to unexpected results when combined. AFAI can tell, this is caused not by anything to do with wikitext syntax, but simply by there not being any Lua code to handle the corner case in question. What's the best venue to draw attention to something like this? The template's talk page, or someplace else?

Cheers,

- 89.183.221.153 (talk) 17:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. You can leave a message on the template's talk page, but you could also try the technical village pump to see if anyone is able to help. If you could provide more details at one of those venues, all the better. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

I could move the discussion via Convinient Discussions? ―Qwerfjkltalk 19:38, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Tenryuu ―Qwerfjkltalk 19:40, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Normally I'd say feel free, but as the OP is an IP address, I'd say start a new discussion and link to it here in the event they come back to read this. Thanks for introducing me to this handy script, by the way. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:46, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, both. I was being deliberately vague to make it clear that I'm currently merely asking for directions, rather than any in-situ technical discussion - no need to move this preliminary anywhere, I reckon. I'll try my hand at fixing the issue myself in the template's sandbox and then make my way to WP:VPT as suggested.

- 89.183.221.153 (talk) 20:24, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Question by FredTJoseph

Hello, my name is Daniela and I was paid by Frederick Joseph to create his Wikipedia page, not knowing that creating it under his own account would be rejected. Would it be possible to create my own account and move the page there? FredTJoseph (talk) 19:07, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@FredTJoseph It will likely still be rejected on Wikipedia:Notability grounds, specifically Wikipedia:NACTOR, as mentioned on your talk page. Creating a new account will not change this. ―Qwerfjkltalk 19:17, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@FredTJoseph: since you are not Frederick Joseph, you need to change your account's username, you may use WP:CHUS or Special:GlobalRenameRequest to do so. That being said, pages are not tied to accounts, anyone can theoretically edit any page here. Victor Schmidt (talk) 19:23, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Daniela. It appears that you, and Joseph, have the (very common) misapprehension that Wikipedia has anything at all to do with promotion (aka "telling the world about yourself"). It does not. If Wikipedia ever has an article about Joseph, it will not belong to him, it will not necessarily say what he wants it to say, and it should be based almost entirely on what people unconnected with him have chosen to publish about him, not on what he says or wants to say. If there is not enough such independent published material, then no article is possible: in Wikipedia jargon, he is not notable. --ColinFine (talk) 20:22, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

So, Next: Change your account's username. Make sure the declaration of Paid remains on your User page. Draft:Frederick T Joseph was declined, with main reason given is needs better refs. My recommendation is delete content that cannot be referenced, then make sure that all factual states are referenced. Refs need to be what people have written about him, not by him, not interviews, nor just brief mentions of his name. His articles can be listed, but should not be hyperlinks. Instead, need to add where published and date. For his book, publisher and ISBN. For External links, just his website. David notMD (talk) 20:34, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Birmingham Bombings 1974

The article on the , Birmingham bombings has an important omission that at 86, I can't fix. details must be available. Birmingham had developed a sophisticated disaster programme when I was at Accident Hosp in 1969 studying OHNC. It had been lost by the time of the Birmingham, bombings.

I was at the accident hospital in 1969, when Birmingham City was working on a major incident plan that would coordinate the emergency services for such an emergency. The response at the Birmingham Bombings was completely uncoordinated.

Too often this kind of thing happens in local authorities for a variety of structural reasons. I was a councillor 2002-2010, on the executive 2006-08 and mayor of L B Hounslow Council 2008-9, we councillors were kept in the dark about major incident procedures, I had to dig hard to discover what we had. The one fire drill, that they had when I was present, was the worst I had ever seen with the chief officer not seeming to have any idea of what was required.

I couldn't figure out where to post this so that someone can research and make the article more complete.

Genevieve

G M Hibbs MPH PhD OHNC ... GHibbs (talk) 18:16, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@GHibbs: While you may have personal experience with the subject, all information on Wikipedia must have a reliable source to fulfill the verifiability policy; otherwise, how do we know you're telling the truth? If this information is in a reliable source that has been published publicly, you may either edit the article directly, or go to the talk page and propose changes there. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 19:46, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Or, to put it less tendentiously, Ganbaruby: How can a reader in Birmingham or Brisbane or Buffalo or Bangalore, next week or next month or next year, tell that the information was inserted by somebody who knew what they were talking about and were being honest, and has not been changed wrongly since, whether accidentally or maliciously? The only reasonable way, Ghibbs, is if it is accompanied by a citation to a reliably published source that supports what is said in the Wikipedia article. See WP:V. --ColinFine (talk) 20:16, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

To add to this, the explanation that we (as an encyclopedia) don't publish new information is at Wikipedia:No original research, and you are looking instead for a newspaper, a historian or an academic if you have a story that needs to be told (and then a news or academic article can be used in Wikipedia). — Bilorv (talk) 21:25, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Source suggestions

FYI

 – Heading added by Tenryuu.

Hello! So I am currently working to publish a page about The Pennsylvania State University's College of Nursing [1]. One issue I am running into with this is that I am including many sources from Penn State, as they are the resources that give the majority of the notable information about the college. As my drafts have been declined and I'm seeing that using sources like these might not be favorable, I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions! Thank you! Annalisemara (talk) 21:26, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Annalisemara: Welcome to the Teahouse. I can't point out exact sources for you, but has the College of Nursing done anything notable outside of the university? You might be able to use state or municipal newspapers as sources. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:16, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Adding Wikicommon images

Hi, Can we add any images in Wikicommon to Wikipedia? File:Gopinath Ravi.jpg

Can I use these three images in my article? Is these images are eligible for Wikipedia?

Thanks Kamesh Aravind P (talk) 21:37, 13 July 2021 (UTC) Kamesh Aravind P (talk) 21:37, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Kamesh Aravind P, assuming you are the photographer, like you stated on Commons, yes, you can use these images on WP. IMO Gopinath Ravi is a little short to use all 3 images, but that's me. I like the 3:rd one for leadimage. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:01, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, Kamesh Aravind P, you can add Wikimedia Commons photos of this fellow to the article about him. I too think that one photo will suffice. NB this is an encyclopedia, not a celeb adoration website; so even if we think that somebody has a lovely look, we don't say so. (Unless, of course, we can cite reliable sources for the loveliness of the look.) -- Hoary (talk) 22:06, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) x 2. Any image from Commons is permitted in a Wikipedia article. Like everything in Wikipedia, consesnsus among editors determines whether any particular image is appropriate in an article. Kamesh Aravind P, do you have a connection with Ravi? You have uploaded those three pictures of him all as "own work", so you presumably know him or work with him. If so, you should certainly declare your conflict of interest; and you should not have moved the draft to mainspace yourself (especially just after it had been declined). --ColinFine (talk) 22:07, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Kamesh Aravind P. There are some issues with the files you uploaded that I think you should try and resolve first before you do anything else. You've claimed that these are your "own work", but they all appear to be photos taken from the subject's official Facebook and Twitter accounts. Please check the notifications I left at c:User talk:Kamesh Aravind P for more details. You might also want to look at this and this for general reference as well. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:27, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

How to Submit Pashto article for Review?

Hello There, As you were suggested, That i should create the same article in my own Pashto langauge; I did. But the problem is that, There is not button to submit for review. I tried {{AfC submission}} tempalte as not working, And i tried help form Live chat , they told me we can't help you, Becuse we only help in English articles.

So, I though let me as there! Now how can submit Pashto Article for Review?

My Pashto Draft: https://ps.wiki.x.io/wiki/%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%86:ImanSalvador/%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%B1%DB%8C%D9%86_%D9%85%D8%AE ImanSalvador (talk) 22:16, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@ImanSalvador: We can't help you here as this is happening on the Pashto Wikipedia. There should be a help desk over on the Pashto Wikipedia that you can ask at. What I can say is that I think the Pashto Wikipedia doesn't use that template, which is why it isn't working for you. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:20, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@ImanSalvador: From the left sidebar, I found this link [2], which should be the Teahouse equivilant at Pashto Wikipedia. Someone there should be able to help you, or point you in the right direction. RudolfRed (talk) 22:56, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Yingqianmao says

[titled by Hoary (talk)]

 Yingqianmao (talk) 22:54, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Yingqianmao. Do you have a question? -- Hoary (talk) 00:11, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Having trouble getting references to format correctly-- can someone help

Hello, when I put my references into the new page, it does not format correctly. Can someone help? Marley3Liz (talk) 21:41, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

The order is: Assertion 1, reference for assertion 1; assertion 2, reference for assertion 2; etc. Your draft currently has just two sentences (with one reference), and then reference, reference, reference, reference, reference, reference. This is all rather hard to explain but it will be easy for you to understand if you simply work on improving existing articles before launching a draft of your own. Thus my recommendation: first, forget about your draft and make a few dozen edits to improve existing articles; then rearrange and augment your draft; then, when your draft has paragraphs of body text (of course properly referenced), submit it a second time. -- Hoary (talk) 21:57, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Markey3Liz Hello, are you referencing Draft:Wolf Entertainment? The references don’t appear to be ”formatted properly” because you did not ”format it properly” You are directly adding the source to the Reference section. If you want to see your references appear like the ones you observe in other articles, I would try as much as I can to explain to you what to do, First start by deleting in its entirety the current reference section you are using in that article and let’s start afresh. For references to be “formatted properly” (my personal method) which you could use to correct the “wrong reference format” is to first create a section titled “References” proceed to save your edit, then re-edit the References section by clicking the pen like image, having done so, you should be looking at a blank white space with only ''==References=='' present, underneath, you write ''{{Reflist}}'' then save. Having done so, you switch back to visual editor then if you intend to substantiate any thing in the article with reliable sources you go to “cite” which is located above thus anything you cite would automatically appear in the references section in a “proper format” sorry for the complex process. Reading WP:CITE would explain things better for you, furthermore, reading WP:REFB is important. Celestina007 (talk) 23:12, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Nick Moyes has a watered-down primer for beginners that you may find useful, @Marley3Liz. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:12, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Conforming the categories of a Talk page to match the Article page

I am reviewing the Dalcroze eurhythmics page at https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Dalcroze_eurhythmics and I noticed that the category of the Article page is Music Education while the categories of the associated Talk page https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Dalcroze_eurhythmics are dance categories. The Article is correct based on the evidence presented there. In editing the source of the Talk page, however, I was unable to change any categories. How can I change the category of the Talk page to match the category of the Article page? Thanks. Edinburghpotsdam (talk) 02:34, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I think I messed up terribly, redirect confusion

This is my first time using the teahouse, hopefully I am using this correctly

Anyway, today I was searching through orphan articles and found the article: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Clio%E2%80%99s_Psyche when I tried to find mentions of this article, I noticed there was a redirect to Cliodynamics with the same name (Clio's psyche) I didn't know what to exactly do, but I didn't want to cause too much attention or problems, I was confused if I should have nominated for deletion, and for which type. I tried looking at redirects for discussion, but I only got more confused if I should report it.

Long story short, there are 2 redirects (one called Clio Psyche and the other being Clio's Psyche) and they both redirect to each other, so when you type in "Clio's psyche" it goes to the "Clio Psyche" redirect, and when you type "Clio Psyche" you get sent to the "Clio's Psyche" redirect, while the main article is left ignored...

What should I have done, how do I fix this, and how hard did I mess up?

Sorry for my mistake, thanks for reading and responding RandomEditorAAA (talk) 02:19, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@RandomEditorAAA: Welcome to the Teahouse. I think I see the issue now: There is an article, Clio’s Psyche, that uses a curly apostrophe instead of a straight one. I'd ask a page mover to move the article that has the curly apostrophe to the title with the straight apostrophe, Clio's Psyche. You can do so at Technical move requests. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:57, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

So, after the page move everything should be fine, right? Thanks RandomEditorAAA (talk) 03:12, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Critic's/Editor's/Journalist's Reviews

Are critic's reviews or editor's / journalist's reviews from any newspaper included in wikipedia articles of personalities? ManaliJain (talk) 13:05, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@ManaliJain: It's hard to generalize, as not all reviews will be from reliable sources. But overall, yes, reviews from professional journalistic critics are often good sources to add to articles. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 16:51, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Alright, thanks! ManaliJain (talk) 03:46, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Sources not mentioned at WP:ICTFSOURCES anywhere

If there is any source / website having information but is not mentioned at WP:ICTFSOURCES, neither in reliable category nor in the non-reliable category. Then can editors use those left out sources in articles? Eg.: Lehren, 5 Dariya News, etc. ManaliJain (talk) 15:58, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@ManaliJain: I think you should use your own judgement, I believe (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that the list lists examples of reliable sources, and not all reliable sources. I would look into WP:RS for determining if a source is reliable or not. So, yes there are reliable sources not covered by WP:ICTFSOURCES, and you can use sources left out that are reliable, and definitely not deprecated sources (basically sources that the community agrees on are bad and should not be used. If you add a deprecated source, it might result in an edit filter warning being triggered). Justiyaya 16:16, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Alright, thanks!! ManaliJain (talk) 03:47, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I am unsure about the notability of a niche topic in sanitation

Hi, teahouse folks. Thanks in advance for your time to respond to my question. Some colleagues of mine sent me a draft Wikipedia article (in Word) and asked me if I can help create a Wikipedia article for it. However, I am not too sure if the topic is sufficiently notable. It's about a fairly new concept in sanitation (around 2-3 years old) which may not have been around for long enough. Before I tell them that I want to make sure I am not being overly critical, so I thought I would ask here. The topic and short description is this: "Citywide Inclusive Sanitation (CWIS) - Citywide Inclusive Sanitation abbreviated as ‘CWIS’, presents a paradigm shift in urban sanitation for low- and middle-income countries. It is an approach to urban sanitation, where all members of the city have equitable access to adequate and affordable improved sanitation services through appropriate systems of all scales (sewered & non-sewered), without any contamination to the environment along the entire sanitation value chain (1)." The references that they plan to use are these (mostly websites although I could help them replace those with publications on those websites:

1. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343737442_Solving_urban_sanitation_-_sustainably_and_equitably/download
2. https://blogs.worldbank.org/water/addressing-urban-sanitation-crisis-time-radical-shift
3. https://citywideinclusivesanitation.com/call-to-action/
4. https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2018/11/06/world-bank-group-and-bill-melinda-gates-foundation-commit-to-innovation-to-speed-up-sanitation-for-all
5. https://www.eawag.ch/fileadmin/Domain1/Abteilungen/sandec/schwerpunkte/sesp/CWIS/cwis_old_wine_new_bottle.pdf
6. https://www.frontiersin.org/research-topics/9491/city-wide-sanitation-the-urban-sustainability-challenge#articles
7. https://blogs.worldbank.org/water/cwis-new-web-hub
8. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fenvs.2020.00019/full
9. https://www.gatesfoundation.org/ideas/speeches/2018/11/reinvented-toilet-expo
10. Spuhler, D., Germann, V., Kassa, K., Ketema, A.A., Sherpa, A.M., Sherpa, M.G., Maurer, M., Lüthi, C. and Langergraber, G. 2020. Developing sanitation planning options: a tool for systematic consideration of novel technologies and systems. Journal of Environmental Management 271. DOI: 10.1016/j.jenvman.2020.111004.
11. https://adb.eventsair.com/online-adb-sanitation-dialogue-2021/cwis-knowledge-hub
12. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fenvs.2019.00201/full
13. https://sfd.susana.org/
14. https://www.susana.org/en/knowledge-hub/resources-and-publications/library/details/3700
15. www.cwiscostingtool.com
16. https://www.cwisplanning.com/
17. https://www.eawag.ch/en/department/sandec/projects/sesp/sanitation-technology-and-system-choice-for-urban-planning-sanichoice/
18. https://sanitationeducation.org/
19. https://www.eawag.ch/en/department/sandec/projects/sesp/consultant-capacity-development-concad-for-city-wide-inclusive-urban-sanitation/
20. http://scbp.niua.org/
21. https://fsm-alliance.org/
22. https://amcow-online.org/
23. www.susana.org
24. https://www.eawag.ch/en/department/sandec/e-learning/moocs/

I think my advice to them would be to rather include the content in the existing article on sanitation, rather than create a new article. On the other hand, there are other small-ish articles on small topics/concepts in the sanitation arena such as CLTS or IWRM which one could argue are similar cases; however I would say they have become notable over time because they have been around long enough and a variety of publications have been published about them. - Note a Google search on the topic gives 44,000 hits which to me seems rather low but I know that's not conclusive evidence one way or another. EMsmile (talk) 11:13, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

The sources that are just website homepages are all completely useless for that reason alone. No opinion on the other sources. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 11:25, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Yea Jéské Couriano, if I take out the websites then these are the remaining references that they propose to use for the article (they are fairly high quality but pretty much all from EAWAG or Worldbank; so it could be seen as just two organisations pushing this concept, which has apparently been around since 2016):

1. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343737442_Solving_urban_sanitation_-_sustainably_and_equitably/download
2. https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2018/11/06/world-bank-group-and-bill-melinda-gates-foundation-commit-to-innovation-to-speed-up-sanitation-for-all
3. https://www.eawag.ch/fileadmin/Domain1/Abteilungen/sandec/schwerpunkte/sesp/CWIS/cwis_old_wine_new_bottle.pdf
4. https://www.frontiersin.org/research-topics/9491/city-wide-sanitation-the-urban-sustainability-challenge#articles
5. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fenvs.2020.00019/full
6. Spuhler, D., Germann, V., Kassa, K., Ketema, A.A., Sherpa, A.M., Sherpa, M.G., Maurer, M., Lüthi, C. and Langergraber, G. 2020. Developing sanitation planning options: a tool for systematic consideration of novel technologies and systems. Journal of Environmental Management 271. DOI: 10.1016/j.jenvman.2020.111004.
7. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fenvs.2019.00201/full
8. https://www.susana.org/en/knowledge-hub/resources-and-publications/library/details/3700 EMsmile (talk) 12:33, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

If you are going to create a Wikipedia article from Word, you can try this list of Word to Wikipedia conversion tools. I believe WikEd also allows copying and pasting.. ―Qwerfjkltalk 17:52, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Qwerfjkl, I didn't know about those tools. Good to know! EMsmile (talk) 03:49, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Reliable sources

Hello, Despite citing renowned newspaper articles as references, I dont know why my draft is bing deleted repeatedly. Getthisdone (talk) 05:05, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Getthisdone, you do cite reliable sources, but IMDb and Medium aren't. All your photos are also copyright violations. "Awards and achievements" have no references. You also have copypasted your entire draft to a talk page; idk why you need to do that. GeraldWL 05:16, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Third opinion question two articles, two third opinion request?

Hello! I have a question, about a detail not covered by WP:Third opinion, is when someone request 3rd opinion that affects two articles with the exact same issue, should you open a second 3rd opinion request, on the other talk page as well? Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 05:30, 14 July 2021 (UTC) Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 05:30, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Dawit S Gondaria, I would probably open a second request. If you wanna open just one, I think it will be best for articles that are related to each other, like Donald Trump and Donald Trump Jr. GeraldWL 05:33, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Gerald Waldo Luis Thanks! Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 05:39, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Title change?

Is there a way to change the title of a draft for Draft:David Peterson (Physician)? He is not a physician as the original poster claimed. 141.126.14.151 (talk) 19:11, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Requested moves. ―Qwerfjkltalk 19:19, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

If you are not Autoconfirmed good luck...it makes you go in circles.2600:8807:824C:6D00:C436:2EEB:7347:ADF8 (talk) 19:47, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

This is an issue that can be dealt with if and when the article is moved to mainspace. The submission has been declined, so the issues that were raised by the declining editor need to be addressed first. Mjroots (talk) 08:20, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Adding own works

Hello, I'm new.

What are the rules on adding my own work as sources or further reading to pages? Does this constitute a conflict of interest or should I go ahead? If it's a problem, are there workarounds that maintain Wikipedia integrity?

Thanks! Charcoo (talk) 14:00, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Charcoo Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You are correct that it would be a conflict of interest for you to make edits related to your own work. You are welcome to make a formal edit request(click for instructions), detailing changes you feel are needed and the reason- this may appear to others as if you are promoting your own work, so you will need to give a reason that it adds to the article. 331dot (talk) 14:34, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help. Charcoo (talk) 14:46, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Charcoo: The policy at WP:SELFCITE implies that you may sometimes add citations to your own work directly (i.e. not always using edit requests). This would, for example, cover peer-reviewed publications in academic journals which are not excessive in the context of the rest of the article in question. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:50, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification Michael. Charcoo (talk) 08:32, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

COI

How do I resolve COI? Getthisdone (talk) 05:20, 14 July 2021 (UTC).

Hello, Getthisdone. It is simple. Disclose your conflict of interest as widely as applicable, and always gracefully defer to the assessments of experienced editors who do not have a conflict of interest. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:27, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

In basic English: first, say you have a COI at your user page. Then, the next time you want to edit a page you have COI with, discuss at the talk page. See WP:COI for more info. GeraldWL 05:28, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Getthisdone, hello and welcome to the Teahouse, you can read WP:COIDISCLOSE, or make edits requests at the tp of the article rather than edit the article directly. Celestina007 (talk) 05:30, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Specifically, as long as it is a draft, you can edit directly, but if becomes an article, you will need to propose changes on the Talk page of the article. David notMD (talk) 09:43, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Watchlist for specific topics / categories

Hello friends! Is it possible to customize watchlist or add a script on a user page to see recent edits in specific categories? The Projects only provide lists of pages that require attention (AfD, AfC, and so on) and I don't see such a feature on Watchlist settings. Great thanks in advance! Myuno (talk) 13:47, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Myuno: Go to the category page, then click on "related changes" in the left sidebar. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 16:49, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Great! This will help. Thank you once again. Myuno (talk) 11:18, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

By the way, does it work for subcategories as well? Or should the recent changes be checked separately? Myuno (talk) 11:25, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

How much can we infer from sources before venturing into WP:OR

Greetings,

this is sort of a follow-up to a question asked by another editor above. I have participated in this discussion, where I argued that one could infer a ranking based on numbers in sources, without this ranking being given explicitly by the source. (Specifically it was about language speakers by Ethnologue, but this isn't important here.)

My question is: Am I correct in my assumptions?

LandLing has argued that it would not be possible, and I believe they are an experienced editor whose opinion I can't simply ignore. Thus I would like to know to what extent a Wikipedian can infer from sources without it constituting WP:OR, ideally with some links to policy so I can bookmark it.

Cheers! LordPeterII (talk) 12:45, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Possible Error in article

Hello everyone i was editing an article for Matt James and in the Game Design Career the last line is wrong as Vorpal game info site is showing that it was established by Alex Rose but the line conveys that the company was started by Matt James and his brother so Please anyone can look upon it. And if my assumption is wrong please forgive me and let me know on the talk page. Thankyou Stobene45 (talk) 11:59, 14 July 2021 (UTC) Stobene45 (talk) 11:59, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Stobene45, I'm afraid you didn't look into the sentence more. It says that they are "moving forward", not that they established it. GeraldWL 13:01, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Draft article submission denied

Hi. I am currently working on an article and it was denied. The reason stated there was too much advertising language used. I was wondering if I can get a second pair of eyes and/or suggestions on how I should move forward. The only resources I have are from media outlets. https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Draft:GirlTrek HaileyNOLA (talk) 20:02, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@HaileyNOLA: Please read WP:PAID and be aware that we block all editors who undertake undisclosed paid editing. This means you! Please follow that obligatory guideline before you continue to edit Wikipedia to try to promote your clients here. Nick Moyes (talk) 13:07, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes I am not a paid editor and I am not creating this article on behalf of the organization. I am writing this article - my first - because the organization is a globally recognized non-profit. However, the only source materials on the organization are media articles. So your comment doesn't really help.

Advice needed with referencing style WP:CITESHORT

I normally use the "long referencing style" and find it much easier than the short style (WP:CITESHORT). In fact, I really struggle when I have to work with the short citation style. For the article on ecosystem it uses the short citation style but the links are missing from the notes to the sources. For example the note says "Chapin et al. (2002)" but it's not wikilinked to the "source" entry of Chapin, F. Stuart; Matson, Pamela A.; Mooney, Harold A. (2002). Principles of Terrestrial Ecosystem Ecology. New York, NY: Springer New York. Could someone tell me what the easiest method is to fix that? Perhaps point me to the right page for learning how to do it? (or possibly do it for me if it's just a few mouse clicks or if there is even a bot) And in general, is the short citation style growing in usage or reducing? What are the developments? - Thanks! EMsmile (talk) 03:55, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

EMsmile, if this is what you're referring to, I'll use Kampoeng Rawa as an example. If you click edit source at "Works cited", notice something a "ref" parameter. So let's say, the first one is {{{{SfnRef|Suara Merdeka 2014, Berharap}}. The citeshort using that is cite 16, which is {{sfn|Suara Merdeka 2014, Berharap}}. That way it can be automatically detected and linked. GeraldWL 05:23, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Note that this is just one of the other citeshort varieties; for Chapin et al. (2002) you can see other articles using this variety and see their sfn template. Also note that it's up to you whether to use long or short cites, but an article must be consistent between them. A problem I ironically see in TFAs. GeraldWL 05:26, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Gerald Waldo Luis, however I am still rather confused. Could you point me to a good "how to" guide or tutorial on how to do this. Or are you saying the best way is to examine how other articles have done it? Which other article is using the same style and what did you mean by "see their sfn template"? Is Climate change using the same style, and can I somehow infer from there how it's done? It looks very complicated. EMsmile (talk) 13:20, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Gallery section in a page

I'm not really sure if I can put a gallery section in the page 2021 Mala earthquake. I read the MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE but I'm still unsure. I want to put the File:Jorge Chavez Airport - 2021 Mala earthquake.png file but when I try to put it in a section the image appears in the References section. Can someone fix it, or tell me if It is appropiate to put the image in a gallery section?. Atomi20 (talk) 15:18, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Atomi20, I think it would best fit directly after the "Damage" section heading. Galleries are normally used for multiple images. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:30, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dodger67: Thanks. Do you think that the image now looks in a good position? Atomi20 (talk) 15:35, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Atomi20, I fixed it with this edit. You had it right at the top of the page. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:51, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dodger67: Now is at the references section... Atomi20 (talk) 17:47, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Atomi20, what browser or app are you using? This seems to be an issue at your end. Perhaps the Technical Village Pump could help if you ask there. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dodger67: Okay, but before trying to get help there, I'm using Chromebook. Atomi20 (talk) 13:27, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Username's Colors

I often see this on wikipedia, that there are some usernames which look red in color while some are blue. Is there any specific reason for that? ManaliJain (talk) 07:01, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

These are wiki links to user pages. Blue means that there is a user page which has been edited, and red means that the page has not been created (or has been deleted). Meters (talk) 07:03, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@ManaliJain: it just depends on whether that user created their user page or not. I see you created yours, for example. Paul Vaurie (talk) 13:06, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, got it. @Meters: @Paul Vaurie: Thanks both of you! ManaliJain (talk) 14:10, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi

Hi can I know how can i create a new document?  Snowflake2004 (talk) 15:02, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Snowflake2004: Welcome to the Teahouse. There's more information on creating a new article at Your first article, but keep in mind that it's one of the hardest things to do here on Wikipedia. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:32, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Next level thanking

Hello how do you thank someone for edits that they get in their 'notices'. Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 12:11, 14 July 2021 (UTC) Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 12:11, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Dawit S Gondaria, alright so let's say you wanna thank this. There you can see the word "Thank"; this can be seen in desktop, mobile and app. Click that, and when it pops "Publicly send thanks" click "Thank". Boom. GeraldWL 13:04, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Gerald Waldo Luis Nice, thanks!Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 15:49, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Ettiquette regarding subject matter expertise

I've had an article declined due to someone deciding it does not have enough reputable sources. I am in rural Canada, and the sources included but are not limited to several CBC articles written by different reporters over the span of several years (CBC is our national public broadcaster), The Herald (which is a news magazine that has been in print since 1940), and a page from a small but respected local book publisher. I accept that those sources may not have been recognizable to someone in another area, but doesn't that speak to a gap in their knowledge regarding local media as opposed to an issue with the sources?

I'm not sure how to navigate this as I feel that rural areas will forever be at a disadvantage since people simply don't know what local news sources are, and I want to tread the line between being polite and respectful to other editors but also advocating for the recognition of rural news media as valid and the inclusion of rural interests on Wikipedia. RoseCastle (talk) 19:25, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Justin Barbour ―Qwerfjkltalk 19:29, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Note: This article has been draftified twice by DMySon. ―Qwerfjkltalk 19:37, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

User:Qwerfjkl, Please check carefully whether it is moved twice or once. Check here. DMySon (talk) 00:38, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@DMySon Oops, I have a bug that duplicates pages' history. ―Qwerfjkltalk 06:07, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

RoseCastle. It's nothing to do with rural areas, and nobody is saying that CBC is not "reputable". There are three separate criteria for a source to count towards notability: the first is that it is reliably published; but the other two are that it be independent of the subject, and have significant coverage of the subject. I haven't looked through all your sources, but the first two, from CBC, are basically Barbour talking about himself, not independent coverage of him. Such sources may be used, but in limited ways: see primary sources. --ColinFine (talk) 20:29, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

I disagree with your points, but don't wish to get into the weeds with details on a particular article since I'm raising a point about the amount of sources available for rural folks and how people with no knowledge of local media can deem them unsuitable. That's why I didn't include a link myself (someone else added it), because I wanted to get insight into the larger issue. --RoseCastle (talk) 21:02, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@RoseCastle: What exactly is the larger issue you're trying to raise? You think Wikipedia is systemically biased against smaller topics with only local (not regional or national) coverage? I would agree and say that's by design, as we only have a certain amount of volunteer labour, a particular, limited scope and many complicating factors that we need to have pragmatic rules to combat. For instance, Verifiability—that everything needs a reliable source—is there to combat the pragmatic issue that people insert jokes, deliberately false information etc. and the only way it can be removed is if we have some process to check that content is correct (Does it have a source? No: remove it. Yes: check the source and remove it if the source doesn't say that). The rule hasn't existed for as long as Wikipedia has, and it wasn't the first rule we created. It was one that arose because of a pragmatic need for it.

Similarly, Notability—that something needs more than local attention—is needed for a whole host of pragmatic reasons that include our need to limit our pool of articles to a size we can maintain (against vandalism, good faith but unhelpful edits etc.), to maintain a good reputation/public standing for any of our articles to be useful (otherwise the readers leave), our need to avoid hoaxes and elaborate jokes that do sometimes occur, our need to avoid financial incentives driving people to create blatant adverts and sneaking edits in that hurt the encyclopedia and benefit their personal business etc.

Suggesting a limitation of Wikipedia is all very well, but what's the solution being proposed? As for this particular topic, I'm British and rarely edit Canadian topics, and I'm very familiar with the name CBC; as for The Herald, I can look up any particular large-enough newspaper called (The) Herald in 30 seconds and then generally at a glance get a good impression of what its reach and editorial standards are. If it doesn't have a Wikipedia article (that tells me what I need), I'll look at the website and get an impression from its "About Us", whether it has a corrections policy and whether the by-line is given to someone who has worked for other publications that look reliable.

As for the specific points ColinFine, you can disagree all you want but everything they have said reflects the wider community's approach and you are wasting your time and ours if you continue to try to argue for the draft on the strength of its current sourcing. It's not a waste of time, though, when you have a draft rejected or an idea doesn't work for a reason outside of your control—if you choose to learn the lessons from that and look for a part of the encyclopedia where your talents will be actively sought after. — Bilorv (talk) 21:20, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

As I have specifically mentioned above, I’m not arguing for the particular article itself (and was not the one who linked to it) so we can set that aside as irrelevant.

The issue I was asking for advice on was when it was appropriate to push back when someone is making definitive calls on sourcing when they don’t seem to have any knowledge of the sources in the area while remaining polite. I’m not sure how or why one would feel qualified to make those calls if one wasn’t familiar with the area, but this conversation just keeps getting circumvented by commenters focusing on specific details in the article (which, as mentioned, someone else linked) and so I’m moving on. Thanks for your time.

—-RoseCastle (talk) 22:40, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@RoseCastle: If you have a disagreement with another editor about the whether a cited source meets WP:RS, then you probably should first try and resolve things with the other editor on the relevant article's talk page per WP:DR. If you try this and still are unable to resolve things, then you can try asking for broader input at WP:RSN. The WP:ONUS, however, is going to fall upon you to establish a WP:CONSENSUS in favor of using the source and at some point you may just have to be willing to accept whatever the consensus turns out to be even if you don't agree with it. The same would apply to the others involved as well in that if the general consensus is that the source is reliable and OK to use, they too would have to accept that even if they believe otherwise. Since Wikipedia is a collaborative editing project, disagreements over article content and the like are inevitable. When that happens, the best you can do is be civil, try to explain your position in terms of relevant Wikipedia policy and guidelines, and see if you're able to establish a consensus in favor of your position. As for subject matter expertise, such a thing might help you better explain your position, but it doesn't automatically mean others are going to just defer to your position as explained here. The ultimate outcome is still going to depend on whatever consensus is established. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:04, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you MarchJuly for the relevant feedback, I appreciate it. It's so unfortunate that the link was added as it has caused most replies to be in the weeds. -- RoseCastle (talk) 16:19, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I can see only CBC references which are reliable but those are not secondary and independent of the subject. Other resources which are Social Blade (Self published): a YouTube, Twitch, Twitter, & Instagram Statistics platform, YouTube(Self published): Not reliable, Flanker: a selling book platform, nfldherald.com: about his book self published, Flanker: biography of the subject self published]. Now fails WP:NACTOR and WP:GNG.DMySon (talk) 00:40, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

propose rework of pinhole camera

Hi, members of the tea-party, I feel that in: pinhole camera, 5.selection of pinhole size the last paragraphs should be reworked. I've posted on talk page but got no reaction. Has anyone of you got a secret tool to find out, who has contributed these paragraphs? I'd prefer, that the original contributer has a look on his baby before I start to damage it ;-) Regards Lei-Fidelity Lei-Fidelity (talk) 15:44, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

There's no secret tool for that; see this. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 15:57, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Lei-Fidelity Or WikiBlame. ―Qwerfjkltalk 16:06, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@User:Qwerfjkl SENSATIONELL!!! Danke! P.S.: The former author's user page no longer exists.Lei-Fidelity (talk) 16:21, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

New-Notability

Hi- new here so hello! I just tried to publish my first wiki here https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Draft:Milam%27s_Markets and I not see that I need to put better sources aside from the company website which I will definitely do! The main comment asks, "how is this company notable outside of the Florida area?" However, I tried to do this on the basis that there are many grocery stores in the United States with Wiki pages. Some are smaller than this one, see https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Bi-Rite_Market or https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Zupan%27s_Markets What constitutes notability when creating articles? Kristieguzman (talk) 16:25, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Kristieguzman. Notability comes from significant coverage of the topic in multiple independent reliable sources. Your draft begins by saying the company operates "service oriented stores with a focus on quality and diverse product offering", and you cite that to the company's website. That's a big no-no and a red flag for reviewers. The company website can be an external link instead of a reference. The Miami Herald source is excellent and you should build the article by summarizing independent sources like that. Bi-Rite Market has coverage in the Wall Street Journal, the Atlantic, Fast Company and of course the San Francisco newspapers. The sources at Zupan's are not as strong and mostly local, but that's a start class article written 11 years ago before the Articles for Creation review article even existed. Please read Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). Also, be aware that Wikipedia has 6.3 million articles and plenty of them have a variety of problems. Saying that you found one or two mediocre articles so therefore you should be able to create another mediocre article is not a persuasive argument. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 16:55, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Kristieguzman, and welcome to the Teahouse. In answer to your questions: 1) there is no necessary connection between the size of an enterprise and whether or not it meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability. It's true that a larger business is more likely to have been written about, and so is more likely to be notable; but that doesn't necessarily follow. Everything depends on the number and quality of the sources, not on the size, fame, importance, popularity, or any other inherent quality of the subject. 2) the articles you're pointing to might well be(I haven't checked) among the thousands and thousands of substandard articles which were created in the early days of Wikipedia, before we were as careful. If so, they ought to be improved or deleted, depending on whether their subjects do in fact meet our criteria: see OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. The criteria for notability of businesses are at NORG. --ColinFine (talk) 16:58, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Eddie Mahoney

I added in the body "Eddie did more than just Sing "Vocals" he also played sax and harmonica, the piano and a little guitar. (source is his wife LM )" It was taken down for the reasons listed below and was referred to as baloney reference. . And now I reference many youtube concerts Eddie played the Saxophone and sang which is hard to do, The other instruments are covered in a Washington Post article. Please change to denote these facts and not rely on just album covers. And yes the words I stated were verbatim what Laurie Mahoney said. Any person who has gone to an Eddie Money concert knows he at the very least played the Sax. When Eddie was in the studio he might of been Vocal's which is understandable for as stated before, singing and playing the sax is taxing and Eddie would concentrate on Vocals. I am not looking to be a regular editor but, on a fan page the question was brought up, that Wikipedia listed vocals beside instrument(s). Please, will someone correct this? Also, would someone advise me how or whom the Eddie Mahoney's Estate can establish credentials can become an editor on the page. I AM Not THE ESTATE"S SPOKESPERSON. I have tried to contact the editor who deleted but I can not get it done. Furthermore does anyone see the rhyme as I do, that the editor used? https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpUgdO3lRrjzTtTEtH562agLlra5OIolTkXM9p6xiQ6DUFyIOVNaqMXNwpTrkKtWclauA&usqp=CAU google, "Eddie Money played the tenor sax" under images you will see he did,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/eddie-money-singer-behind-take-me-home-tonight-and-two-tickets-to-paradise-dies-at-70/2019/09/13/3fdc6b0c-c8e5-11e9-a1fe-ca46e8d573c0_story.html

https://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Eddie_Money&action=history

curprev 06:27, 14 July 2021‎ Cullen328 talk contribs‎ 26,715 bytes −130‎ Restore to version before changes before "his wife" was referenced. We need an actual reference, not some vague baloney undothank Tag: Manual revert The Money Man Fan (talk) 16:46, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I am the editor who reverted your edit because what you heard from his wife is not an acceptable source because it violates the policy No original research. You can certainly use the Washington Post as a reference. However, anyone affiliated with Eddie Money's estate has a Conflict of interest that must be disclosed. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 17:03, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

By the way, the Washington Post obituary that mentions the instruments that he played is already a named reference in the article. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 17:11, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

The Money Man Fan, hello and welcome to the Teahouse! As Cullen points out, anything added needs to be accompanied by a reliable source. Someone so close to Eddie is not considered independent. It would need to be covered in a secondary independent source. Anyone is allowed to edit but someone so close to the subject needs to disclose their conflict of interest, as pointed out, again, by Cullen, and are encouraged to use the articles Talk page in order to have anything added or removed by a non-COI editor. The same policies apply in regards to independent sources. --ARoseWolf 17:15, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Can an image be used as a source?

As said, is a photograph considered a valid/reliable source of information for an article? And if yes, how is it best cited?

Thanks, MKH1020 (talk) 14:28, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

No, on the grounds that a photograph cannot be in-depth. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 15:27, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I disagree with Jéské Couriano. A photo might conceivably be a valid and reliable source of information, just as a listing can be. But as neither is in-depth, neither can help establish notability.   Maproom (talk) 16:28, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

That would only be true if you knew the context the photo was taken in, and if you know that there's no reason to cite the photo in the first place. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 16:33, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't entirely agree with either of the other answerers. If the photo is published in a WP:reliable source, then it can be used to support the information which the source says it shows. So if the source says that this is a picture of X talking to Y at event Z, then it could be used to support claims such as that X met Y, or that X was present at Z, even if there is no further mention of Y or of Z in the source. --ColinFine (talk) 16:43, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I have to agree with Colin here. I have seen photographs be the foundational source of an entire article. It grew from there largely because we were able to expound upon and find other sources but a lot of the initial biographical information came from the caption of a photograph captured by a notable photographer and published in a reliable independent secondary source. It may be difficult to find these cases but they do exist, especially in a historical sense. --ARoseWolf 17:22, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@MKH1020: What kind of image are we talking about? Is it a photo, a scanned document or created image of a concept? I think this will change some of the response above. If it is a photo I think the thing to take from this is that we must be very careful if we are using this image as a source. It has to be abundantly clear within the image, for example if we have an image of 2 world leaders shaking hands at a world conference, we can't cite that these two world leaders are best friends. This would be a balance of WP:OR or WP:SYNTH. To cite an image like this is must be verifiable so you will have to provide enough information on the source that someone else can reasonably locate and verify the information cited by the image. If it is a scanned document then it is probably just best to cite the document itself. If it is a created image of a concept and it can be released under a compatible license it should be included in the article. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 17:38, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

In my experience, many photographs from sources such as national library holdings, recognized biographical databaes and, on occasion, historical journal and newspaper articles are accompanied by detailed descriptions of the circumstances under which the photographs were taken, including the relationship of the subject with the location in question and even with the photographer. A fair number of my biographical articles contain references to such photographs, including pertinent explanations in the text of the article.--Ipigott (talk) 17:43, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Fact check question

Can some regular editors guide me about checking validity of facts stated and how to fact check. IndoUniverse88 (talk) 14:09, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

(made this its own section) David notMD (talk) 14:17, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, IndoUniverse88, and welcome to the Teahouse. Very general questions like yours tend to be difficult to answer (because so much depends on specific cases), so you are much more likely to get a useful response here if you are specific: what facts are you wanting to check, in what article? --ColinFine (talk) 16:37, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

At a simple level, all factual statements require verification via reliable source references. Although not a requirement, the majority of refs are online. Rather than accepting as true, there is value in going to the ref site to confirm it does support the text of the article. David notMD (talk) 17:52, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

page creation

How do I add a page? TheCrabNebula (talk) 17:11, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

You might want to have a look through Help:Your first article. Pi (Talk to me!) 17:17, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

To add to this, TheCrabNebula, you might find along the way that creating a new article isn't actually what you want to do. It's one of the most difficult tasks on Wikipedia, generally requiring the most experience. You can't just pick any topic you want—you have to find a topic that's notable, which is a property that's outside your control (it's based on whether in-depth independent reliable sources exist). When creating an article, the first step is the research process: finding the reliable sources that you will use to write the article. But you can do this on a smaller scale, without risk of your work being deleted, by finding an existing article that you can improve and expand with new references and information from those references. If you want to find a good place to start, I recommend Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Adventure and Wikipedia:Task Center. — Bilorv (talk) 17:53, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I want to help Wikipedia

 Sparklestern (talk) 16:33, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Figure out what you'd like to do, or if you can't make up your mind read articles and copyedit as you go along. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 16:35, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Sparklestern: the Task Center can help you find useful tasks, but even before that you might like to try The Wikipedia Adventure. — Bilorv (talk) 17:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Could a technical expert help out here?

Following this thread where I exposed less than ethical practices, I have been receiving several spam links to my email which I know once clicked would hack my email instantaneously, so in order to have peace of mind and ensure my account itself cannot be hackled i enabled 2FA in my preferences. please my question is if I lose my current mobile device is my account lost forever? I read about the tokens but honestly can’t make heads or tails of it, Secondly if I purchase another mobile device and reinstall FreeOTP from App Store would the OTP recognize “me” and continue its normal functions or do I have to still do anything manually? Celestina007 (talk) 02:49, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Celestina007, your account cannot be lost; if you buy a new mobile you can always log in there, as long as you know the password. I couldn't answer the FreeOTP question though; if anyone is able to please do so. GeraldWL 05:19, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Gerald Waldo Luis, obviously, I know my account isn’t lost if I buy a new device my question makes reference to the FreeOTP. Oh well Why don’t I take this to the village pump where more technical savvy minds can be of help. Celestina007 (talk) 05:37, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Celestina007: See Template:Committed identity for an alternative if you are worried about your Wikipedia account being hacked. It doesn't prevent hacking but can help you regain control. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:33, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter, that’s something I’ve looking into. Thanks for bringing it up. Celestina007 (talk) 13:56, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure how it works with FreeOTP but with 2FA wouldn't you need a four digit code to log in as well as your password. If you buy a new device and you register the device under your current email then you should be able to access your account just as you are now. Theoretically it should recognize you but don't they give you back-up codes? I would keep them handy if they do. It is the other failsafe you have to access your account if something goes wrong. --ARoseWolf 14:15, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Celestina007: There are scratch codes you get when you set up 2FA. See Help:Two-factor_authentication#Scratch_codes. Make sure you print these out and keep them in a safe place. If you lose your device, you can use a scratch code to authenticate. RudolfRed (talk) 16:19, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@ARoseWolf, I think you both gave me the slam dunk answer I was looking for, if I enter my gmail the new device should be able to recognize “me” the and my “FreeOTP”, that indeed makes sense & yes @RudolfRed, I infact just printed those out now and being an archaic ancient old dinosaur that i am, I also wrote them down manually in three different books. Celestina007 (talk) 16:55, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Celestina007: Never a bad idea to write them down as many times as it takes. I've never heard them called scratch codes before but that's pretty cool. I had to use 2FA for a while on other programs due to a personal issue I was going through before I came to Wikipedia but was never really fully immersed in it. It should work out. Let me know how it goes. The suspense and all that (lol). --ARoseWolf 17:07, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

ARoseWolf, would most definitely do, I haven’t purchased the new Apple device yet and my question was a theoretical one, I was just thinking futuristically (and the thought came into my head) like what if my phone fell into the Atlantic Ocean or Armed robbers / thugs ambush me once again as they did in the past. Prior my fight against UPE and dismantling of UPE rings in Nigeria, I innocently doxxed myself by stating my height and place of work(all of which Primefac was gracious enough to redact from my history entirely) so my thinking was that if that happened again (now that I have enabled 2FA) would my account be forever lost? But thanks to you, PrimeHunter and RudolfRed I am no longer worried as you have all spelt and explained in detail how to retrieve my account if I lose my mobile device. Celestina007 (talk) 17:31, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

You can easily export your OTP secret from your old device and import it into your new device. You can even export the secret now for backup, remove it from your device, and import it later into a separate device and it will still work. Anton.bersh (talk) 18:01, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Foreign language citation & Using Youtube as a source

I skimmed through WP:CITE and couldn't really find any specifics regarding how to cite a foreign language article; and what I mean by that is when to include the language of the article cited in the citation. I know there are certain tools that will take care of that for you, but I'm having a discussion with a new editor and his response to me saying he needs to find an English source and/or cite that the source he's using is in a foreign language was "The editors who are interested in that page will surely understand it and after all it was nothing controversial" And also in the same discussion I brought up that he cited a Youtube video, are Youtube videos considered a reliable source? The one this editor used was over an hour long, it was an interview between two people, one of them being the subject of the Wikipedia article – but there was no way to verify the claim cited in said article from the video because it was in a foreign language. So I just wanted to know if there was any guidance, policy, essay, etc. within Wikipedia that I could point this editor to and familiarize myself with. Thanks!

Edit: I did find WP:VIDEOREF and I didn't know if that was a good reference to point this editor towards. But being as said video looks like an interview, does that then delve into a copyright violation if the video is used as a source? Thoughts appreciated. Snickers2686 (talk) 14:14, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Snickers2686: generally you cite a foreign language reference in the same way that you would an English one, and look for any additional parameters that flag up the language e.g. in {{cite web}} there is |language= and then you can include both the original and a translated English title with |trans-title=. Foreign language sources are as acceptable as English sources, so you are not correct that this person needs to find an English source. If there is one of equivalent suitability in English then that would be preferable (e.g. when I'm searching for television reviews, I prefer Australian reviews to Greek reviews), but it's not required—take a look at WP:RSUE.

YouTube can be a perfectly fine source just as much as "books" or "internet pages" can be: it depends on who is publishing it and what their credentials are. Linking to a video is not a copyright violation but linking to a copyright violation is not allowed—you have to evaluate who owns the copyright and whether that's the YouTube channel owner in the way you would assess this with anything. Give me the context and I can look at it. If the source is a video of over an hour, you can use timestamps such as with {{cite AV media}} and provide quotations (if it's brief enough). Let me know if I missed anything! — Bilorv (talk) 18:03, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Moving sandbox to mainspace

FYI

 – Heading added by Tenryuu.

how to move my sandbox to mainspace Craftandartindia (talk) 16:42, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Craftandartindia An editor moved your Sandbox draft to Bagru Print. However, there already exists a much longer article Bagh Print which appears to me to be about the same topic. Do you agree? If yes, you should ask to have an Administrator delete your article. David notMD (talk) 18:16, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Appears that Bagh and Bagru are entirely different villages, with no connection between them. David notMD (talk) 18:21, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

David notMD, Yes both are different print and located in different states of India. what is this, "This article is an orphan, as no other articles link to it. Please introduce links to this page from related articles; try the Find link tool for suggestions. (July 2021)" I can't understand this.

editing instruments

I found out how to edit instruments but, I am instructed to do this "If you think an instrument should be listed or removed, a discussion to reach consensus is needed first per: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Template:Infobox_musical_artist#instrument -->" I followed the link but it did not tell me how to start a discussion. So, I tried and do not want to do wrong and I am not coming here before trying. Also, I have no intention of editing regularly.

I do have publish resources but one resource the "Washington Post" requires an email sign up to read is that acceptable? This article lists Saxophone, harmonica, and piano, Which is as follows

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/eddie-money-singer-behind-take-me-home-tonight-and-two-tickets-to-paradise-dies-at-70/2019/09/13/3fdc6b0c-c8e5-11e9-a1fe-ca46e8d573c0_story.html?fbclid=IwAR1VURY1A50sgm0Eq-Ev9ioG__aa_HZp2pIqfeAkEs96n4MOIaeONqcPk_k

Here is one with the saxophone mentioned. It is my understanding that a reference is not needed if it is a well know fact, such as, If I edited "Jimmy Hendrix played the electric guitar."

https://www.musicrecallmagazine.com/interviews/interview-with-rocker-eddie-money/

So, how do I reach a discussion to list the instruments. I do not care if someone else does it, I look for no recognition. I would like to handle this to give Eddie's widow a small pleasure during her time of grief. Please help me to do this for Laurie. The Money Man Fan (talk) 19:08, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@The Money Man Fan You can try pinging the main contributors of the Template, by looking at its history, and ask them whether or not they disagree with you. ―Qwerfjkltalk 19:25, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Pretty sure OP's interest isn't to edit the template, but to edit the Eddie Money article's infobox's |instrument= value.  — sbb (talk) 19:57, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

If my previous comment is correct, just open a discussion on Talk:Eddie Money (click on "New Section" at the top of the page), and state your case with the cited reference(s).  — sbb (talk) 19:59, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Some privacy

Is it possible to assign an IP address to account? I was accidentally logged out and I don't want my IP address to be publicly visible.

Thank You! Movopro (talk) 21:10, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Movopro: goto WP:OVERSIGHT and use the link at near the top of the page there to email the oversight team. They can hide your IP address. RudolfRed (talk) 21:21, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Deletion

How to nominate an article for deletion? Peter Ormond 💬 18:25, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Peter Ormond and welcome to the Teahouse! If you want to nominate an article, the Wikipedia deletion policy explains the criteria for deletion, and may help you understand when an article should be nominated for deletion. The guide to deletion explains the deletion process. If an article meets the criteria for deletion and you understand the process, consult these instructions. If you are unsure whether a page should be nominated for deletion, or if you need more help, try this talk page or Wikipedia's help desk. --ARoseWolf 18:30, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Peter Ormond I strongly suggest you use Wikipedia:Twinkle to do so. You get an extra drop-down menu, there you chose XFD on the page in question. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:32, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Peter Ormond: Slightly different take from the previous. Twinkle is great, and I use it myself. But I've also found that it's valuable to do at least a few deletion nominations "the hard way", as the scripts occasionally go wonky and it's good to know what to do to clean things up by hand if that happens. --Finngall ^talk 21:32, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

GNG?

Hello. I created this draft. Does it have the possibility of meeting WP:GNG? Just curious. If not, I will use {{Db-g7}}. Paul Vaurie (talk) 13:04, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Paul Vaurie, as it stands now? I think a case could be made in either direction. Possibility for notability-increasing augmentation? I quote: "More sources that I have not used yet^{[6][7][8][9][10][11][12]}" Perhaps I am an unusually lazy person, but I have more pressing concerns. You've read them; you've read WP:GNG; decide for yourself. If you decide that yes the subject does meet WP:GNG, then do your best with it and keep your fingers crossed. If you decide that it doesn't, simply abandon it and after a few months it will evaporate. -- Hoary (talk) 22:23, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I have fixed the errors in Draft:Dr R Rajammal

https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Draft:Dr_R_Rajammal I have kept the information in an encylopaedic manner. Removed original research. please review. Manjukms (talk) 20:43, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Manjukms: Please click the Resubmit button and be patient. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:56, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Teahouse hosts are not reviewers. You removed content after the Decline, as did McMatter. Now, there are not enough references. David notMD (talk) 00:02, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

When a editor contradicts himself,

Hello, question about when a editor contradicts him self about a specific detail first agreeing on the talk page, but when applied to the article, user removes the sourced content, when asked about the contradiction, editor now claims there's no contradiction even though it's cleary there on the talk page, and now says the sourced content will be removed tomorrow. This is annoying behavior, is this incident noteworthy, and what policy best describe this behaviour? Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 23:30, 14 July 2021 (UTC) Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 23:30, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dawit S Gondaria: Please let us see the edit by linking to the article - context is everything. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 23:58, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I found it  Courtesy link: Talk:Oromo language § Afaan Oromo the use of a incorrect source. There's a lot to wade through, but the discussion should be kept on the talk page. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 00:00, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@User:Timtempleton Hello thanks for your answer, in that discussion it's separate from the BBC source discussion, for which i openend a case in Reliable sources.

It's about the latest edits in the same section, and it's something trivial but annoying nonetheless. ●It basically comes down to, user doesn't want a sentence(Amharic has more total speakers) in the article(in contradiction to earlier statements made by user on talk page), he now switched positions denying he contradicted himself, now saying it's too much about Amharic, when it's really one sentence. Now i will have to explain why he shouldn't revert tomorrow, honestly at this point i think user is taking advantage of my relative inexperience. Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 01:19, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

List of useful code

Hello I noticed that there was a cheat sheet listed in the help section but it didnt have what I needed. Is there like a reference sheet that has useful things like the commands for adding categories and magic words ect? ElectraInTheVoid (talk) 16:40, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@ElectraInTheVoid: The page you're talking about is Help:Cheatsheet isn't it, which is a short list of the most common wikitext markup and templates. There's a more comprehensive list of wikitext functions at Help:Wikitext, which covers just about about everything you can do. If you want a comprehensive template listing have a look at the WP:Template index which lists a huge number of templates sorted by function. Finally many common bits of wikitext markup can be inserted directly in the editing window, just above the edit summary box there's a bar with buttons you can click to insert characters into the page. If you swap the dropdown menu at the left to "Wiki markup" it will bring up a list of most of the common tags and magic words. 192.76.8.91 (talk) 01:35, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Charles Brian O’Kelley

Hello! I'd like to ask for help from more experienced editors here. Recently, I published this article: Draft:Charles Brian O’Kelley, which was later moved back to draftspace. When I submitted the draft for review, the same editor returned the tags of notability and "fan view". I have two questions: 1) Is it justified to put the same tags from the article in the draft which is under review? 2) Do you agree with the tags in the draft? If the answer is "yes" can you, please, explain in detail here, in the draft or on my Talk Page, what are the specific issues? For example, I'm puzzled by the editor's comments that the deep coverage publications in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal and Forbes Staff (plus other publications) do not qualify the person for a Wikipedia article. If this person is not notable, then I'm not even sure who can be notable. Idunnox3 (talk) 23:23, 14 July 2021 (UTC) 

@Idunnox3: I tend to agree with MrsSnoozyTurtle, that the article is too much about AppNexus, but it looks like others are helping you clean it up. Generally, if the majority of the bio is about the company, consensus is to put the person's info in the company article. If his new company CMDTY gets more coverage, focusing on his efforts there, that helps make the case that he's notable enough on his own. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 02:03, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Question

Does this article have a problem? TUDN (TV network) ItsJustdancefan (talk) 02:02, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@ItsJustdancefan: I'd move the carriage dispute info to history, or maybe even delete it, since it was a while ago and carriage disputes are fairly common. I'd also update the programming, if necessary, and remove the programming section flag. Otherwise, looks OK at first glance. Why do you ask? TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 02:08, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes it has. There are unreferenced lists; all content must be referenced. On the section "Carriage disputes" (if it's necessary at all; see above), see Wikipedia:Citation overkill. -- Hoary (talk) 02:12, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

How do I use a copyrighted logo?

I am making a draft on a political party and I want to put its logo in the infobox. (My draft here, the image here). But the logo is copyrighted, so where do I get the permission to use the logo? Excellenc1📞 03:28, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Excellenc1: Per the non-free content policy, copyrighted images cannot be used in the draft space, so it can only be put in once it becomes an actual article. After that happens, you can upload the logo as a non-free file via the file upload wizard and then put it into the article. Saucy^{[talk – contribs]} 03:51, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Saucy: Actually the draft I have created is on an article which already exists in English Cap Écologie. The reason why I couldn't find that is because the article was previosly named Cap Ecology (I recently moved it to Cap Écologie). Can you please delete my draft or something? Can I get help? Excellenc1📞 04:14, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Excellenc1: You can put {{Db-userreq}} at the top of your draft and an admin will delete it for you. RudolfRed (talk) 04:26, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

I tried to help using Twinkle not realizing the MfD option didn't give me the option for speedy deletion, and only created an AfD nomination. Sorry for any extra work I added for the admins. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 04:30, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

How to nominate a article for GA status ?

Hiii I want to nominate Jalgaon district article for GA status. How to do it ? Or can you do it ? If you can please proceed. Huge Earth (talk) 13:49, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Instructions. Kleinpecan (talk) 13:51, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Over the past month you have increased the length of the article by more than half, which is a good start. Nominating is simple. Once an experienced GA reviewer agrees to review the nomination, you will see a list of items that need improving. Up to you to address all of them to the satisfaction of the reviewer. Good luck. David notMD (talk) 14:21, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Kleinpecan Hiii, I tried to do as said in link you provided. But I'm not sure the article is really nominated or not. Can you nominate it by yourself.Huge Earth (talk) 05:54, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Huge Earth: Jalgaon district is showing up at WP:GAN#PLACE, so I assume it has been successfully nominated. One template is enough, though. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:24, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

User:Tenryuu If it is nominated, as you said then thanks for telling me.Huge Earth (talk) 06:48, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Problem found on a page; don't know how to flag it

 Courtesy link: Jenga

Please look at the page for Tenga, and then the talk page. Below is what I wrote there. (I think I forgot to sign it because it's been so long since I've needed to do that; apologies.)

I would be interested in knowing how to flag this sort of problem because rather a while ago I found a similar but more complicated situation, noted it,* but then left it alone until I'd learned how to deal with it. Hasn't been a priority but this Tenga example offers an easier case to deal with.

"Opening text for this page is problematic

The opening of this item comes directly from a commercial source: https://www.jengagiant.com/. My understanding is that that's an absolute no-no for Wikipedia entries.

Someone with more Wikipedia knowledge than I have should insert the appropriate nasty message and/or simply remove the text. I've got no idea how to fix this and the game is obviously popular.

So I am noting it but leaving it alone." Tarkiwi25 (talk) 00:18, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Tarkiwi25: Welcome to the Teahouse. Could you link to the exact external page that you claim is getting its content ripped onto here? I can't seem to find it at the page linked. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:24, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

I can't either, but as I said at Talk:Jenga, they copied the content from us, not the other way around. Graham87 06:54, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Tenryuu 🐲 @Graham87 Thanks for your responses. Here's the link from Jenga's (the game) "About" page: https://www.jenga.com/about.php. Apologies for not getting that right to start with. Apologies as well for not seeing Graham87's entry in the Talk:Jenga page; I didn't do a thorough study of the Talk page since most of what I saw related to the game itself (which made it obvious that the game itself is of sufficient cultural interest to have a page). [OK; I've gone back to the talk page and now realize that you were responding to my post there.]

Thanks, too, for the welcome to the Teahouse, although it's been rather a while since I first approached the Teahouse for help. I try to focus on producing acceptable new pages and/or developing/improving existing pages rather than blundering around in learning new tricks that aren't directly germane to what I can already do. But this seemed like a potential opportunity to grow my knowledge of Wikipedia per se a little.

So, even if Graham87 is correct and there is no problem here, I'd still like to know how to flag such a problem* by attaching the appropriate one among the sort of notices that appear at the top of a page [for example, on the Jenga Talk page], but of the sort that object, for example, to insufficient support/development/importance/whatever within a page, or that call for more citations, ..... I don't have the nomenclature (the labels for labels) to know how to search efficiently within Wikipedia's pages of instructions to find what I'm looking for.

When I initially* said I'd found an apparently similar problem before and that I'd noted it, it was only a note to myself. I don't know how to "note" things on a page itself or anywhere else such that people looking at that page might become aware of the problem and perhaps help sort it out.

Cheers for your assistance.

Need help regarding Formal Tone

Hello, I would like some assistance for my Draft https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Draft:Jolyon_Petch. I need help to rephrase it into a neutral formal tone.

Thank you! Ainamera22 (talk) 08:14, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Mistakes in a BBC report used as a source

Hello @Talk:Oromo language a BBC source is being used to determine how many speakers a ethnic group have, the claim is that it's the fourth most spoken language in Africa. However according to a more reliable source like ethnologue, there are other African languages spoken more, both in terms of native speakers and total speakers. Hoewever a editors argues BBC report is reliable, and ethnologue doesn't rank them, even though Ethnologue does give clear figures for the different languages. Is this a reliable source issue or a content dispute issue? Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 09:07, 14 July 2021 (UTC) Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 09:07, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Dawit S Gondaria Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. It might be both- but even if your source is considered reliable, that does not mean that the BBC should not be considered at all. You will want to discuss this matter on the article talk page to arrive at a consensus as to how to proceed. You may wish to go to the reliable sources noticeboard to see if the source you mention is considered to be reliable as well. 331dot (talk) 09:28, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

331dot Thanks Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 09:34, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Dawit S Gondaria You might also want to have a read of the essay Wikipedia:Conflicting sources, which describes a couple of ways of dealing with these issues when multiple reliable sources give conflicting information. 192.76.8.91 (talk) 01:45, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@192.76.8.91 I couldn't find these specific kind of Wiki policies for specific issues, without searching endlessly, so thank you very much for sharing this! Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 08:16, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

CropTool not showing up

Hello. For some reason, my CropTool won't show up when I go to try and crop an image on Commons. I tried re-installing CropTool, but the thing on the side told me I already had CropTool enabled in my preferences. What should I do? Paul Vaurie (talk) 21:31, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Paul Vaurie, hold on whilst I notify experts in image related problems. Celestina007 (talk) 21:39, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Godsy, Alexis Jazz, care to chime in here? Celestina007 (talk) 21:38, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Celestina007, I'm indeffed so I can't test anything properly, but CropTool does seem to load. @Paul Vaurie: do you see the "⌗ CropTool" link? Are you actually on Commons and not looking at a Commons image on Wikipedia? (compare w:File:Example en.svg and c:File:Example en.svg) Are you logged in? If you have the "⌗ CropTool" link, what happens exactly when you click it? Does [3] work for you? Which skin do you use? (check your preferences, Vector is default) Do you use the mobile site?— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:23, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Alexis Jazz: No, the issue is that I don't see the # CropTool link. Yes, I am actually on Commons and not Wikipedia. Yes, the link you put works for me. I just can't seem to see the link on the left side of the page on Commons. I think I use the Vector skin. Sometimes I use the mobile site, but very rarely. Mostly just on my laptop. Paul Vaurie (talk) 09:35, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Paul Vaurie, using the desktop site, can you either log out or open a private window, create a new account, enable the CropTool gadget (if it isn't enabled by default, I'm not sure), go to c:File:Example.jpg (CropTool doesn't support all file formats, so look at a .jpg to be sure) and see if you get the CropTool link (should be near the "Cite this page" link)? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:23, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Paul Vaurie, in addition to the above, if you go to https://commons.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/File:Example.jpg (create an account if you don't already have one, use a different password from your account here) and enable CropTool in your preferences there, do you see the CropTool link there? (beware that if you actually upload a crop it would probably go to the regular Commons instead of beta) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:38, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you everyone for all your help. I think the issue is the file format for an image I was trying to crop. I was trying to crop this. When I clicked on the example jpg, the # CropTool symbol showed up. However, when I clicked on the example svg, it didn't show up. Weird. Anways, if someone can crop the Antoine Garceran image so it displays just the face, that would be of great help. Thank you! Paul Vaurie (talk) 18:18, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Paul Vaurie, webp isn't supported. Antoine Garceran has an image now. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:03, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! Paul Vaurie (talk) 09:06, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Is it relevant to include content about an article's actions in the article?

I found a biography article that had been vandalized with by adding false information. However, the vandalize edit is quickly reverted. Nevertheless, someone discovered a loophole and used it to republish the false information as:

"This article has been vandalized with the content of [false information] in which the editor has been charged for defamation by advertisement"

Even though it is the fact (that the article was vandalized), does this information contribute to or add to the biography of the person? Ladoce8755 (talk) 12:17, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Articles are being vandalized or distorted all the time. The fact that wrong information was once included shouldn't be mentioned in the article except in the very rare cases that this is picked up and published in reliable sources, which can then be cited.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:29, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Shantavira One of the country's major news networks reported on the arrest of the editor who vandalized the article. And use this as a citation to the said loophole edit. Is this the case? Ladoce8755 (talk) 12:34, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

In that case I suggest discuss it on the article talk page or take it to Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:40, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Shantavira Thank you, I have another question does case like this mentioned in the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons or somewhere else? Something like guidelines or suggestions for where this type of information should be placed. Ladoce8755 (talk) 12:48, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Ladoce8755, consider WP:PROPORTION. Sometimes there is good enough coverage for "WP on WP", but just because it's been mentioned in media doesn't mean it should be in the article, it can be considered navel-gazing. A few examples where WP is mentioned: Warsaw concentration camp, Pierre-sur-Haute military radio station and Élizabeth Teissier. But consider putting a "This article has been mentioned by a media organization:" note on the talkpage like at Talk:Kate Osborne. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:09, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

What is the purpose of births by year and deaths by year categories?

What is the purpose of Category:Births by year and Category:Deaths by year and their subcategories? 50.30.176.26 (talk) 04:45, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

They're there to note people who are born or died in a specific year. Is there an issue you're seeing with these categories? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 05:26, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

No I was asking what benefit they have. 50.30.176.26 (talk) 07:15, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

To quote from Wikipedia:Categorization: "The central goal of the category system is to provide navigational links to Wikipedia pages in a hierarchy of categories which readers, knowing essential—defining—characteristics of a topic, can browse and quickly find sets of pages on topics that are defined by those characteristics." In other words, suppose you know a limited number of facts about someone including their year of birth (and maybe their profession or nationality etc), you could use the category system to narrow down their identity.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:41, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Proper External Links Template

I was told some of my external link additions are not following the Wikipedia guidelines on External Links. I've reviewed those guidelines, and I don't see where I've made a mistake. Could I get examples of perfectly done external links? I've added External Links to the Mfecane page in case anyone wanted to check what I did there and give me feedback. I added links to Vickery's course and to a Forgotten Wars Podcast episode. Mbuster88 (talk) 20:50, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Mbuster88: podcasts and such things are not usually good as external links. There are some things it's really hard to judge without having been around here a while, like what Wikipedia:External links means in practice, but we really take less is more to the extreme with external links (ELs). If you're adding an EL about the Second Boer War, a really large and well-known topic, the link needs to be in some way a definitive text (like, ask 100 specialists in the field and most of them would name this historian/resource), because otherwise there's hundreds of links we could add and we have to include them all, or just a few and then someone promoting their own podcast/website gets there first and has a monopoly etc.

I'm noticing that the external links already present in the article you're looking at are not pristine examples of how to do things correctly. Many of them should likely be removed. Experienced editors have pages watchlisted, so they'll notice new changes, and that's why someone might undo one of your changes without fixing the problems already there—they weren't watchlisting the page when those old external links were added, or it slipped through their radar (my watchlist has almost 2000 pages on it—I miss things and I don't have much time to spend on each change I need to undo). I would not recommend adding external links as a good task for newcomers, but I see you added a "Further reading" link or two. That can be good—new references are generally an improvement, and incorporating any information they contain into an existing article is another good newcomer task. — Bilorv (talk) 12:48, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

UEFA EURO 2020

Hello, I'm new here, but recently I noticed that UEFA EURO 2020 page is semi protected unlike other UEFA EUROs on Wikipedia. Why? 18BoldSpil89 (talk) 20:20, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

The log for the page gives the reason: "Persistent disruptive editing". --David Biddulph (talk) 20:31, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@18BoldSpil89: Pages are only protected when they have to be, based on (in most cases) concrete disruption that has actually happened. It should be unsurprising that UEFA Euro 2020 has had more vandalism in the last few weeks than older tournaments. You could look through the page history to see this, but you'd have to be checking the timestamps between when the page was unprotected, which you can see at this log. The protection will expire in mid-August, and only reinstated if disruption continues. — Bilorv (talk) 12:37, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Because Euro 2020 was a current event, there would have been a lot more editing on it, and likely too much disruptive editing. Far fewer people will be editing e.g. Euro 1996 than Euro 2020. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:53, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Information I added has been deleted

I recently added some information to a band's page - Night Beats. It included lots of information about new releases, plus did more of a timeline of the band's career. Citations were added for everything, yet a user has gone in and deleted everything I did. How do I go about reinstating it? They have put nothing as to why they deleted all the extra information. CherryUK73 (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Afternoon, Cherry. your concerns have been addressed on the talk page of the band concerned, citing your apparent Conflict of interests. IdreamofJeanie (talk) 14:36, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

new article entitled "a 128-Hz tuning fork"

I have completed a draft using ms words. Could I upload the draft for review?Bihchi (talk) 15:53, 15 July 2021 (UTC) Bihchi (talk) 15:53, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Bihchi: Welcome to the Teahouse. You can go to Your first article for more information, where you can follow the Articles for Creation process to have it reviewed. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:06, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

a project with less notability rules

is there a more relaxed notability and retracted rules version of wikipedia? bi (talk) 16:18, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Baratiiman: Welcome to the Teahouse. You could try other wikis like TV Tropes or FANDOM wikis, though they tend to be more narrow in scope. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:21, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

There are thousands of wikis. You might be interested in Wikipedia:Directory of alternative outlets.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:23, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

• great directory thanks bi (talk) 16:32, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Can I use this image in my article?

Can I use La France audacieuse logo.png in La France Audacieuse? Excellenc1📞 16:41, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Excellenc1: That image was uplaoded locally to the french Wikipedia, so no, at least not immedately. On any given Wikimedia Project, you can only embed images uploaded locally or to Wikimedia Commons. I can't tell wether it would be acceptable to upload it locally here because I don't speak french. Victor Schmidt (talk) 17:08, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Logos can often be uploaded (direct to English Wikipedia, not to Commons), Excellence1 and used as non-free content in articles. See further LOGOS. --ColinFine (talk) 17:15, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Article lengths (biographies)

Hello everyone. I've been editing here for a few weeks and am enjoying making a contribution. I was wondering whether there are any guidelines for biographical article lengths (word counts)? I guess it's mainly is dictated by the importance of the subject but I wanted to know whether - for consistency - there was some mean to aim towards? For instance there's massive variability between Giles Milton and Matthew Sturgis who are British writers of similar standing. Cheers! SnowballWT (talk) 15:18, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, SnowballWT, and welcome to the Teahouse. Not so much open the "importance" of the subject as on the amount of independent reliable information available about them. There will be some correlation with their importance, but it is not a simple relationship: some minor topics happen to have lots of information available, while some famous or popular subjects have very little. As you surmise, there is no particular minimum or maximum word count; and even where there is plenty of information available, it is an editorial decision (determined in the end by consensus) how much of it should be included. --ColinFine (talk) 16:30, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello ColinFine (in Ripon!). This clarifies it very well. There's a fluidity to Wikipedia which takes a little getting used to but I'll try to keep this in mind. Thank you for the reasoned answer. Really appreciated. SnowballWT (talk) 17:36, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

How to add a picture

 Umjita (talk) 18:10, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Umjita: Welcome to the Teahouse. There are instructions that you can read here, but have a look at the image use policy to make sure that the image is appropriate for Wikipedia's purpose, or it will be deleted. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:25, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Malewashing bias on the Juneteenth article--editors removing intersectional additions to create neutrality as "original research"

Hello,

I was reading the article on the new Juneteenth federal holiday and I was concerned because in talking about the history of the holiday it repeatedly implies all African-Americans had the same legal "emancipated" status that lead to these celebrations, normalizing the idea that what is history for "men" is real history and acting like that is the history for all. The page lacked neutrality, in other words.

This is an exact parallel error as if an article on women's suffrage celebrations said that "all" women could vote after the 19th Amendment was passed. In fact, the Wiki article on the 19th Amendment has a lengthy section on how that did not apply to women of color in practice because of Jim Crow laws. Emancipation did not apply to African-American women in practice because of common law coverture. Further, African-American women leaders at the time knew this and spoke out against coverture. Also, African-American women leaders have been speaking out about coverture laws ever since, up until the present day. Further, Juneteenth celebrations often cover this fact of the "unfinished business" and honor the African-American women leaders who spoke out against it.

In an attempt to make the page more neutral, I formed all this into an edit, complete with ample RS connecting this to Juneteenth celebrations and the editors told me it was "original research" and did a hatchet job on the edit, removing the women leaders' voices, but leaving their names. Which to me is saying, "These icons of history can be SEEN, but not HEARD," and is a form of censoring women's voices. Please note that I do connect this "unfinished business" to Juneteenth celebrations. For example, Sojourner Truth's life and advocacy is regularly celebrated through reading lists that contain her biography that includes this advocacy and I found a Juneteenth screening of a documentary of Pauli Murray's life--she coined the term "Jane Crow" to talk about sex discrimination in the law towards African-American women in particular.

Further, the article talks about how Juneteenth is celebrated in other ways, like breakfasts and dressing up for re-enactments.

This, to me, is a clear double standard. Talking about white supremacy in the history of women's emancipation is relevant, but talking about male supremacy in the history of African-American emancipation, the women who fought against it, and the people who celebrate that today in Juneteenth commemorations is "off topic."

Worse, multiple editors are engaging in personal attacks towards me on the talk page--that I am "callous" had a "political agenda" that I am trying to "Right a Great Wrong," that I should go publish research instead of editing wikipedia, etcs. One editor said the problem with my edit was that it was injecting "too much feminism" into the article. All the usual stuff that people get when they try to include diverse voices. Which is ironic on a page about Juneteenth, which is including diverse voices in American history. One editor straight up said that I can't write about the male supremacy in African-American history because racists will use that to discredit the history of chattel slavery--and that actually IS politically motivated reasoning for removing my edit. Multiple fallacious, extreme straw arguments were made and attributed to me to make me look unreasonable an unhinged and my boundaries against these violations of wikipedia talk page standards was called "abuse." So, there's four issues here:

1) The implicit bias in the Juneteenth page making male history the default history

2) Labeling an attempt to remove that bias by adding diverse voices "original content" and gutting the necessary context from the edit.

3) The explicit bias in how this type of edit is viewed across articles: i.e. removing intersectional edits that call out male supremacy in African-American history out of fear, but allowing edits that call out white supremacy in women's history because that improves the article (which it does, btw). In other words, normalizing a Wiki standard in which intersectionality only goes one way.

4) The disrespectful hostile environment in the talk page towards a person attempting to make this type of edit, that is in violation of wiki standards of respectful communication.

It seems like they are not seeing the bias of the page and so are seeing my correction of the bias as bias.

My question is: Do you see anything wrong with this edit? If so, can you see how I can fix it to be able to point out the necessary addition of coverture to the article? The editors specifically do not want to discuss coverture or the fact that that unfinished is noted in Juneteenth celebrations. Celebrating Juneteenth with pancakes? Military uniforms? Great! Celebrating by noting "unfinished business for women?" That's FEMINISM!! We can't have THAT! It will reflect negatively on African-American men! But no one has a problem with calling out the racism in the women's suffrage movement...

Here is my edit:

Honoring African-American women’s rights leaders in Juneteenth Celebrations Juneteenth commemorations,[72][73][74] recommended reading lists, [75] [76][77] and documentaries screened as part of Juneteenth celebrations [78][79] honor the unique contributions of African-American women leaders such as Sojourner Truth, Ida B. Wells, Francis Harper, Pauli Murray [80] and “countless others” who “fought for African American women to not only to be recognized as humans, but also as women and citizens.”[81] These intersectional Juneteenth remembrances acknowledge the unique position of African-American women after the abolition of slavery. African-American women not only had no legal protection against discrimination of the basis of sex,[82][83] but the common law doctrine of “coverture” gave African-American fathers and husbands legal control over their daughters’ and wives’ property and persons, including women’s education, wages and their own children.[84] [85]Husbands also had an absolute right to sexual access to their wives. "Within marriage, a wife’s consent was implied, so under the law, all sex-related activity, including rape, was legitimate. A man wasn’t allowed to beat his wife to death, but he could beat her."[86][87]

Notable examples of the women's rights advocacy of African-American women that are honored in Juneteenth celebrations include Sojourner Truth’s "Address to the First Annual Meeting of the American Equal Rights Association" in 1867. [88] Speaking directly to African-American men, Truth connected the similarities between coverture and chattel slavery, “You have been having our rights so long, that you think, like a slave-holder, that you own us.” In 1866, Francis Harper maintained that "justice is not fulfilled so long as woman is unequal before the law" in a speech given to the Eleventh National Women’s Rights Convention. [89] Over a century later, in 1965, Pauli Murray, a founder of the National Organization for Women, examined how African-American women still did not have equal protection of the law against sex discrimination in an influential George Washington Law Review essay “Jane Crow and the Law: Sex Discrimination and Title VII.” [90] [91] In June, 2021, Koleika Seigle, the first African-American president of the California chapter of the National Organization for Women, addressed the California legislature during public hearings on proposed legislation to end the state's leniencies afforded to spousal rapists, stating "rape is rape, whether you're married or not." [92][93]

And here is how it was gutted of necessary context:

Honoring African-American women’s rights leaders in Juneteenth Celebrations[edit source] Juneteenth commemorations,[72][73][74] recommended reading lists, [75] [76][77] and documentaries screened as part of Juneteenth celebrations [78][79] honor the unique contributions of African-American women leaders such as Sojourner Truth, Ida B. Wells, Francis Harper, Pauli Murray [80] and “countless others” who “fought for African American women to not only to be recognized as humans, but also as women and citizens.”[81]

You can read my edit here to see how the RS connects this to Juneteenth celebrations:

https://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Juneteenth&oldid=1033159461

And how it was changed here:

https://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Juneteenth&oldid=1033173996

My user name is AmorLucis (it says below not to sign with tildes)

Thank you for your help. AmorLucis (talk) 16:40, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@AmorLucis Welcome to the Teahouse. We don't help adjudicate disputes here. If an agreement can't be reached, you take this to dispute resolution (noticeboard). —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I thought this page helped with improving edits, no? Can give an opinion on the edit and whether or not it's "original research?" I did already take it to dispute resolution, I'm not asking for help disputing the edit. I'm asking for help on the edit. I just talked about the dispute to give the edit context. AmorLucis (talk) 16:51, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

References

I'll have a go at summarising the problem, but since it hasn't got sorted at the article's talk page (which is the right place for sorting such things) I haven't much confidence I'll do a better job here. But as this is the TeaHouse, not the talk-page, I'll concentrate on the general problem, not the specific problem.

The general problem is this: because Wikipedia is a tertiary source, if we have a reference that says the sea is wet, and another that says Mr Smith fell in the sea, we are not allowed to say that Mr Smith got wet. A secondary source, bringing together and summarising primary sources, and written in the voice of the secondary source's published author, can say such things. We don't write with our names attached as authors, so in that sense, we're not allowed to "think" or have opinions. In the Juneteenth article, you've argued that (1) the article is about how coloured men gained rights, but (2) married women had no legal rights, their rights being subsumed in those of their husband and therefore (1)+(2) married women were denied the rights that were given to coloured men, and therefore weren't emancipated. It may be true, but it's a synthesis of two (different) areas of law. I personally think that the other editors are right to keep this to a minimal part of the article, if it gets in at all, because Juneteenth is about colour versus white, not about male versus female. At the time, married white women suffered from precisely the same discrimination. Had the gender discrimination not existed, the emancipation would have been universal. If you put the male versus female bit into what should be an article commemorating emancipation, it waters down and weakens a historic and incredibly important thing: the realisation that coloured people should have the same legal rights as white people. This is too important a thing to lose. That's not to say that the realisation women should have the same rights as men isn't also vitally important, but it's different, and needs to go in a different article. Also, I'd suggest it's a really good idea not to use such terms as Malewashing. Wikipedia is written by a lot of people doing their best to be neutral, to report carefully what the secondary sources say, and in a balanced way. If you use highly aggressive and accusatory terms like this, people will rapidly become upset and uncooperative. A final point: there are a lot of feminists in the world, and WP's editors represent a fairly broad cross-section of society; it's unlikely you're the only person who feels strongly about feminism in that talk-page. If you're not getting any support in a fairly active debate, it may be worth asking yourself why. It's really hard to edit on subjects about which we feel strongly. Personally, I think it's sometimes easier to step away from emotive subjects and come back a bit later, having re-thought. Good luck! Elemimele (talk)

@AmorLucis:  Courtesy link: Juneteenth This should be on the talk page, and formed as a Wikipedia:Requests for comment. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:49, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm taking this elsewhere, but I don't want to let these troubling comments go unaddressed here:

I'm not talking about feminism. I'm talking about intersectional consistency. And I'm saying that without it, articles are not neutral.

Thank you for your honest summary because a lot of what you said was further evidence that intersectional inconsistency is systemic in Wikipedia editing and that the nuances of intersectionality have not yet caught on across the board here. So you helped me to be even more confident in my position that what we have here is a culture that doesn't know what it doesn't know about intersectionality.

For example, a community that would hear the term "malewashing" as "highly aggressive" while calling itself "feminist" has an inconsistency problem. That's like a "Civil Rights advocate" saying "Don't say "racism," it's highly aggressive and it will be off putting to this community."

And I'm just going to flip what you said to prove this point:

"If you put the black versus white bit into what should be an article commemorating women's suffrage, it waters down and weakens a historic and incredibly important thing: the realisation that female people should have the same legal rights as male people. This is too important a thing to lose."

No one says that. We just spent an entire year talking about how Black women couldn't vote after women's suffrage without fearing it would "water down" anything. I'm literally just saying the same thing about Juneteenth.

You are expressing an attitude I see across Wikipedia that inclusion as a bad thing in one context and a good thing in another. That's the definition of "intersectional inconsistency." And why this Juneteenth article is not neutral.

AmorLucis (talk) 01:12, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

It's important to be aware of what neutrality means in the context of Wikipedia policy, because that may not be precisely identical to what it means in a different context. Note the phrasing of the corresponding pillar:

“ We strive for articles in an impartial tone that document and explain major points of view, giving due weight for their prominence. ”

Seems to me intersectionalist considerations have the potential to come into conflict with both of those points. On the one hand, when they fail to be sufficiently represented in the sources that, as determined by editor concensus, represent the "major points of view", then they arguably fall outside the proper scope of the corresponding article. Intersectionality theory is relatively young, so I'd imagine that especially in the case of matters historical, like the one in question, that's quite likely to be the case. Whether that's unfortunate is neither here nor there, ultimately. And if so, what you'd need to do is show that a minority of more modern sources that do take a more intersectionalist stance effectively supersede a majority of less modern ones. Needless to say, simply stating the opinion that they ought to do so won't cut it.

On the other hand, intersectionality is at least in some sense a maximum-inclusivity approach, and is as such at least superficially at cross-purposes with the concept of "due weight". Which is not to say that the two are incompatible, but they do need to be reconciled. Which is helped by care and effort, and hindered by a crusading stance and an assumption of bad faith.

Of course, that's merely my take on things!

- 89.183.221.153 (talk) 17:26, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@AmorLucis: please take this to the talk-page and discuss it there (though I think you may do better to discuss it at Intersectionality); it's a relevant discussion. But two things need noting: (1) discussion is a two-way process with no guarantee you'll get the outcome you want, and (2) WP is not concerned with 'truth' and 'right' in an ethical, radical sense; it's concerned with reporting what others say (truthfully and accurately). If you want to improve the world, go and improve it; someone will write in a reliable source about how you've improved it, and then someone here will summarise the reliable source. When it comes to global change and new ideas, we're not the trail-blazers. We're the last to arrive on the scene... Elemimele (talk) 18:51, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Translation of a title

I want to make a translation of the French article Cap écologie. But the title translates to 'Ecology Cap' in machine tranlation, which I am not sure about. So should the title of my draft be Cap écologie or Ecology Cap? Excellenc1📞 13:56, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Excellenc1, and welcome to the Teahouse. As far as I can tell from wikt:cap#French, none of the meanings of "cap" in French translate to any English "cap". If you are translating, I guess that it would be something like "Goal Ecology", or "Direction Ecology" (which are not normal phrases in English text - one would expect "the ecology direction" - but might fit for a name). I don't think a partial translation as "Cap Ecology" is a good idea, given that "cap" is an English word, but with no appropriate meaning. I would leave the title in French, but provide a translation. --ColinFine (talk) 14:34, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Excellenc1: Welcome to the Teahouse. The best way to determine what the article's title should be on here would be to determine what English reliable sources call it, if any; if none exist, I'd leave it as is. As ColinFine says above, the name might not make sense if it were translated and someone were looking specifically for this political party, so that's another reason why the name should stay as is. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:42, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

So as per the suggestions above, I have kept the title in French itself (I searched for English sources referring to the party, I couldn't find any). Excellenc1📞 14:46, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Excellenc1: If this helps, its predecesser organization fr:Cap21 shows that "Cap" is an acronym for "Citoyenneté, action, participation" (Citizenship, action, participation). So I think keeping the original French name makes sense here. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 19:08, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Citations about draft

FYI

 – Heading added by Tenryuu.

I am proud of the draft Draft:Sandy King (Producer) who is accomplished, has had a massive impact on not only the movie industry, but American culture, has great peer reviews, and definitely adds value to Wikipedia. Keep in mind that all her accomplishments are independent of her massively famous husband, John Carpenter. However it seems the moderator just wants to argue about citations - which are adequate IMO. I am asking for another opinion as King is worthy - and given NPR's recent story of inclusion of women on Wikipedia, it seems more relevant than ever to include accomplished women who are well known and have proven themselves. Thank you for your input.SugarHiller (talk) 15:32, 15 July 2021 (UTC) SugarHiller (talk) 15:32, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, SugarHiller, and welcome to the Teahouse. Wikipedia is unlike almost any other resource on the web: it is an encyclopedia, which relies wholly on independent sources. The criteria for acceptability of a subject are somewhat unfortunately named as "notability" - unfortunately because they have no direct connection with accomplishment or importance: they come down mostly to "are there reliable independent published sources which say enough about the subject to ground an article?". Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources.

As far as I can see, not a single one of your sources contains significant material about King that does not come from her. Therefore, none of them count in any way towards establishing that she meets the criteria of notability. Unfortunately, this is quite often the case for producers.

I observe that you twice describe her as "known". While this is less egregious than some phrases that inexperienced editors put into drafts, it is still an evaluative claim that must not be made in Wikipedia's voice. If you can find an independent source that talks about her that way, then you can quote it explicitly (with citation); but otherwise, no.

By the way, Wikipedia does not have "moderators": Theroadislong is a volunteer editor like you and me, who happens to have volunteered to be an article reviewer. --ColinFine (talk)

Thank you for the feedback. Yet it seems to me that this is all caught up in semantics about a 'word' here and a 'nomenclature' there...not about substance of the subject. But ok, let me change a couple words and look for some more citations - of which there are tons. Just seems to me that there is a blatant disregard for comments about her accomplishments and the meeting of the BLP criteria. Thanks againSugarHiller (talk) 18:45, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

User:SugarHiller has been blocked for sockpuppetry and the draft deleted. Theroadislong (talk) 19:23, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Format used in the paragraph Weblinks

I wanted to change a broken link and felt not sure how to do it. Mainly I saw, the lines start with the lin ddirectly.

Is there a common format, so it looks informativ? Can the shown text be different from the link, that means shorter?

Thanks Ha pe11 (talk) 19:25, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Ha pe11 Hi, the normal method for linking to other pages within the English Wikipedia is [[Page you want to link to|Displayed text]], which would produce Displayed text. These links are blue if they page exists, and red otherwise. External links are produced like this: [https://www.example.com Displayed text], producing Displayed text. Please see Help:Linking. If the link you are talking about is red, it is not necessarily broken; see Wikipedia:Redlink. ―Qwerfjkltalk 19:49, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Celebrity

Can I become a celebrity being an editor or writter on Wikipedia

 41.114.199.100 (talk) 20:35, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm not sure who would confer celebrity upon you for your Wikipedia editing or why that would be a consideration. I guess it's not impossible, Jimbo Wales is pretty famous, but others being like him are unlikely, and certainly not without years of work. 331dot (talk) 20:42, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

I'll let you know in a couple of years.

Serious answer: No, not really. A few Wikipedians have been interviewed by the press, and a few celebrities edit Wikipedia, but a couple of press interviews will not make you famous, and those celebrities we have are all famous for other things. If you're looking for fame, YouTube would be a better route, or possibly being funny on social media. I've got a ridiculous number of followers on Reddit, and that all comes from me making stupid jokes in the comments section, though I'm not sure that would really qualify as "celebrity", more just "popular". ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 20:46, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Almost certainly not. I can't think of anyone who has achieved anything approaching celebrity status for the work they've done here. I can think of two or three who have attracted a very modest level of press interest, not for what they've done, but for getting controversially banned from editing here. Maproom (talk) 20:50, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Maproom & MPants at work, ummm I beg to differ, Hello @41.114.199.100, and welcome to the Teahouse, I take your question as “can I become renowned both on and off Wikipedia as a prolific Wikipedia editor”? Correct me if I am wrong, but if I’m interpreting your question correctly, then that would be a yes, if you are consciously trying to achieve that then that’s very much possible. Editors with WP:EVC perm who are consistently coordinating events are to a certain degree “local celebrities”, Other approaches include you even calling for paid press interviews all of which I would advise against because i, in my own capacity consider fame to be trifling and irrelevant. I’m sorry for the unsolicited advice, but that however is my philosophical stance on whatever it is that’s constitutes “Fame”. Celestina007 (talk) 21:04, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

I think you do, in fact, have a different interpretation of "celebrity", as I doubt anyone who isn't involved in editing WP or a student at a school where an EVC works would know the name of an EVC. To be honest, I couldn't tell you the name or account name of any EVC's, and I'm 20k edits into this project.

That's not to say that you're wrong, but it's a very different type of fame than what most people would mean when they refer to celebrity. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 21:18, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@MPants at work, true, I don’t think I know what happens at EVC, probably inappropriate of me to even bring that up seeing as I do not know what happens there, I do not edit areas where my identity has the potential to be exposed. What my thought process is or was is like this; if an editor with EVC organizes a real life event and Wikipedians come to listen to the coordinator teach, they probably bring along family or friends, I’d assume one who does that one too many times would be somewhat of a local celebrity. I however still believe achieving “fame” (even though i believe fame to be trifling) is possible via editing here, i could show you a diff or two of editors here creating paid publications, but private details are involved(outing and whatnot) so back to the question; can one achieve fame through editing here I think this answers the question. Can it be replicated? Maybe, maybe not, but I feel A “yes”(one can achieve fame via editing here) would have to be the blanket answer here because there’s proof of it. This is however my interpretation of what fame is, This conversation has been intellectually stimulating. Celestina007 (talk) 22:15, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

First, learn how to spell "writer". David notMD (talk) 23:23, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Adding biography of an artist

How to add an artist' biography ABLN2012 (talk) 20:39, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@ABLN2012 hello and welcome to the Teahouse, could you be so kind as to expatiate? are you trying to create a biographical article for an artist? an artist per se or a biographical article on a musician? Celestina007 (talk) 20:45, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

ABLN2012 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Successfully writing a new article is the absolute hardest task to perform on Wikipedia. It takes much time and effort. It is advised that you first edit existing articles in areas that interest you, to get a feel for how Wikipedia operates and what is expected of article content. Using the new user tutorial also helps. Creating an article without this experience is risky.

A Wikipedia article about an artist must summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about them, showing how they meet Wikipedia's special definition of a notable artist(or a notable musician if that's what you mean). If you have at least three such sources, you may attempt to create a draft at Articles for Creation. 331dot (talk) 20:49, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

And if the artist is yourself, ABLN2012 (as is suggested by your user page) then the answer is, please don't. Writing about yourself is strongly discouraged, because it is so difficult to forget everything you know about yourself and write a neutral summary of what indepdendent sources have said about you. Also note that an article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. --ColinFine (talk) 22:00, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Please delete what you have on your User page, as that is not a place to draft an article. David notMD (talk) 23:25, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

How to add content to an existing Wikipedia page?

I would like to add links to books and music pertaining to the individual the page is designed for. Please advise. 76.90.215.244 (talk) 23:31, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Before adding links, be sure to read and digest Wikipedia:External links. -- Hoary (talk) 07:28, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

If it is a valid link (see previously mentioned Wikipedia:External links) or book source and relevant to an information on the page, you can just use the Cite option in the Visual editing interface. Darwin Naz (talk) 00:39, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Promotional vs non-promotional references?

How to Fit a Prong Collar". leerburg.com. Retrieved 2021-02-13. 20 "Prong Collar For Dogs Everything You Need to Know! Mcbzen (talk) 17:07, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Mcbzen: Welcome to the Teahouse. What is your question? You seem to be getting reverted at Dog collar for advertising. Please make sure that the sources you're using are reliable. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:12, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes I'm trying to understand how references 18, 20, 21, and 22 are non-promotional, while trying to reference a blog post on how to properly fit a regular collar is flagged as promotional. What am I doing that's different that those references? How do I properly cite this post? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcbzen (talk • contribs)

@Mcbzen: You're going need to convince other editors watching the page that the blog post is reliable, which by virtue of it being a blog, almost certainly fails. If you have a conflict of interest (as you also appear to be uploading images from the blog-associated site), please declare it, and refrain from editing the article directly. You may leave edit requests at Talk:Dog collar. (Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four keyboard tildes like this: ~~~~. Or, you can use the [ reply ] button, which automatically signs posts.) —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:27, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Mcbzen, I have removed several promotional links to sales sites from that article. Spam is not allowed on Wikipedia, and it is a never ending struggle to keep it out. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:10, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

AfD

How do I do an AfD? Sennagod (talk) 03:03, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

See WP:AFD. Regards, Ariconte (talk) 03:09, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Huggle

Everyone out there from the Teahouse. I am just wondering that... is that safe for an computer or laptop to use Huggle for anti-vandalism work? ----Rdp060707|talk 02:32, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Rdp060707: If you have concerns, you can ask at Wikipedia:Huggle/Feedback RudolfRed (talk) 03:26, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

My article with brief biography was deleted, Why was that done>

Next discussion : #I want my article to be removed from speedily deleted category

My article about Deepak Sood with brief biography was deleted, this article is about the Indian Government body people who is famous and a lot of people search about him, He has dedicated a lot of his time in the improvement of Indian Economy and helped many Indian Government Institutions and sectors. Ronitsunny 04:04, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Ronitsunny If you meant Draft:Deepak Sood, according to the logs, it was deleted due to WP:G11. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 04:24, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Basically, the draft was deleted because it contained unambiguous promotion and advertising language. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:37, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Moon Taeil

Hi, can you rewrite my draft? I want it to be accepted. Moontaeils (talk) 05:28, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Moontaeils, I see that Draft:Moon Tae-il is by you. Your username and his name have a remarkable resemblance. Is this an autobiography? -- Hoary (talk) 06:11, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

No, it is not an autobiography. I am a fan, a supporter of the subject. I am writing an article to give more recognition to him while still being neutral. Moontaeils (talk) 06:28, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Moontaeils: Welcome to the Teahouse. If you're not writing about yourself, you should abandon this account and start a new one, as your account would contravene Wikipedia's username policy. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

How do I block a user?

 Sparklestern (talk) 16:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Become an Admin. -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 16:45, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

You can request administrator attention, but you should first try to resolve your conflict without administrator intervention. What is the user you want to be blocked? What did they do? Anton.bersh (talk) 16:52, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Roxy the dog: Facepalm --Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:43, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Sparklestern wrote on my talk page that Sparklestern wanted to block Serols. From what I see, there is nothing that would require administrator attention right now. Sparklestern, I see that Serols reverted your edit and left a message on your talk page. I agree with Serols that your edit was not constructive. Also, I see that a number of other editors were reverting your edits as well. Wikipedia is not a forum and not a messaging platform. Article Talk pages are for discussing articles and ways to improve these articles. For example, you are welcome to improve an article Naruto, but posting Hello. I want to ask:Don't you just LOVE Naruto?!! like this is not appropriate. Anton.bersh (talk) 09:23, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Courtesy link: resolution of this conflict is here Anton.bersh (talk) 07:05, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

How do I block a user? (2nd section)

I tried but it won't work… Sparklestern (talk) 16:47, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Sparklestern: blocking users is a right reserved for the community-elected admins and in some (very rare) cases the Wikimedia Foundation. Out of curiosity: Who are you trying to block, and for what reason? Victor Schmidt (talk) 16:53, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Sparklestern and Victor Schmidt: This exact question was asked a few minutes ago. Let's try to contain this discussion in one place. Thank you! Anton.bersh (talk) 16:56, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

I have merged the two sections. Victor Schmidt (talk) 16:58, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Sparklestern: When you say "block" do you mean you want to stop somebody from contacting you? Because on Wikipedia a "block" refers to someone being prevented from being able to edit Wikipedia entirely, and only Administrators can do that Pi (Talk to me!) 00:14, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Pi, that was what I instantaneously thought of when I glanced through the question yesterday and not necessarily in the conventional manner the word block is used. Hello @Sparklestern, is someone making your stay here less enjoyable? It might be helpful if you could explain the context or point out to us a scenario where the person you intend to “block” has erred. Celestina007 (talk) 17:03, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Celestina007 and Pi: Please see my comment above. In short, Sparklestern has never made a single constructive content edit and a bunch of different other editors reverted all his edits as vandalism. One editor reverted this edit and left a generic courtesy message on User talk:Sparklestern. Apparently, Sparklestern deemed this message offensive. Anton.bersh (talk) 09:27, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Anton.bersh, I don't know if you are aware of this, but there seems to be another discussion that was going on here, hope it helps. Justiyaya 01:35, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Justiyaya, I was not. Thank you for the link. Anton.bersh (talk) 07:05, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Information forum

Hi, I just want to ask about this. I saw pretty negative content. However, I don't know how to replace it because I can't find the correct information. Is there are any forums for you to discuss informations on Wikipedia? If there are, please send me the link. H0MARUP (talk) 05:05, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, H0MARUP. Please mention the specific article so that experienced editors can look at that particular article. For finding high quality references, try the Reference desks. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:19, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

https://vi.wiki.x.io/wiki/Jeon_So-min That. The second sentence means: Jeon So-min (singer) (born 1996), Korean F-class actress, the actor with the least-watched movie in Korea. You might not know Vietnamese, so please tell me the name of that movie, and I will edit the page.Cullen328 H0MARUP (talk) 05:40, 16 July 2021 (UTC)H0MARUP

H0MARUP, that is Vietnamese Wikipedia and this is English Wikipedia. They are separate projects with entirely separate administration. You will have to raise your concerns there, not here. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:45, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh. Thanks for telling me that... I will tell the admins there then.H0MARUP (talk) 07:16, 16 July 2021 (UTC)H0MARUP Cullen328

Foreign language source

On Mao Anying an edit I made a few months ago was deleted, with the reason that it 'non English language source. cannot be verified'. The source I added was http://news.sina.com.cn/c/sd/2010-11-11/103121453469.shtml , which disputed his death as resulting from cooking rice. BLP doesn't apply, a number of other sources on the page are also in Chinese and the source is not deprecated so I can't tell why it was reverted What should I do here? Gorden 2211 (talk) 07:59, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Gorden 2211: I can't see any reason why the sourced information (and the source) should have been removed, but the best thing to do is probably to ask the editor who removed it, on their user talk page. From the edit summary, it looks like the only issue they had with the source was that it isn't in English. While sources in other languages are allowed (and often necessary), many editors are not aware of this, and maybe it is just a matter of making the other editor aware of WP:NONENG. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 08:17, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

BibTeX

Hey. Is there a tool / service for converting a bibtex entry to a wikipedia reference? I looked on https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Help:Citation_tools but couldn't find anything suitable. Thanks Lukemarris (talk) 08:28, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

I want my article to be removed from speedily deleted category

Previous discussion : #My article with brief biography was deleted, Why was that done>

previously there were errors to this page and content was not as per the community guidelines but now I have disclosed a COI and have added a connected contributor, now the article is simple and brief information about Mr. Deepak Sood with reliable sources.

Please guide me more as am not receiving a reply from chat. Ronitsunny 07:48, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Ronitsunny: welcome to the Teahouse, and thank you for declaring your connection to the topic you were writing about. I think this is what happened: the page Draft:Deepak Sood was deleted about eight hours ago, as unambiguous advertising. You created a new page, which contained only a "connected contributor" template, and then you removed that template again, leaving the page empty. Another editor then tagged it for speedy deletion because you had removed all the text from the page. In most cases, a page's creator should not remove the speedy deletion template, but in this particular case it would be OK for you to do so, if you intend to add sourced information about the person. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 08:30, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Submitting a draft of article

I have just drafted a proposed article. I would like to submit a draft of this article that is in Microsoft word for consideration. Can I download a word document and input it into your system? Orangecholo (talk) 17:39, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Orangecholo Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I don't know about a direct upload, but you could copy and paste the text; you will want to use Articles for creation to submit a draft. 331dot (talk) 17:51, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Orangecholo, click on this link and you will arrive at your "sandbox". Paste the text there. Click on "Publish" (which will save it, not publish it in the normal sense). Format it, and follow the advice at Help:Your first article. "Publish" (save) again. -- Hoary (talk) 02:09, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

But I'm afraid, Orangecholo, that if you wrote your draft without being aware of the advice in your first article, it's likely that you will need to more or less start again. It's like building a house without building the foundations first, or even surveying the ground to check that it is stable enough to build on. --ColinFine (talk) 11:03, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Adding & changing disputed facts with no citation

Why is it not possible to change facts without proper references, but sometimes it is possible to add new content without a reference?

I ask because on the Heineken page it states the the founder of the original Heineken Brewery got the money from his wealthy mother, however there is no citation or evidence to prove this.

How did this get approved in the first place and can it be changed without overriding evidence? Occasionalpedestrian (talk) 10:26, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Occasionalpedestrian Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. That some particular content is on an article does not necessarily mean that it was approved by someone. Given the nature of Wikipedia almost anyone can add anything to almost any article. I'll note that the content you mention is marked as needing citation- this is done to give people the chance to find and add a citation. If those markings have been there for some time without anyone finding a citation, you can remove the information outright. 331dot (talk) 10:31, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@331dot Thank you for your comment. What would you say counts as some time? Weeks or months? I have a conflict of interest with Heineken which is why I know it is a disputed fact. Would someone else be able to change that or could I make that change even with COI? Occasionalpedestrian (talk) 10:48, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Occasionalpedestrian If you have a conflict of interest with Heineken, you will need to declare that on your user page per the conflict of interest policy. If you are employed by Heineken in any capacity, you will also need to declare as a paid editor per the paid editing policy. In your position, I would make a formal edit request(click for instructions) on Talk:Heineken requesting that the information be removed. If you have a independent reliable source (nothing from the company itself) with correct information, that could replace the incorrect information- but even if you don't have that, the uncited information can be removed. 331dot (talk) 10:56, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

I've removed it. It was added five years ago (2016 edit found with WikiBlame) I think that's a long enough wait. - X201 (talk) 11:08, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Declined bio of Colin Macpherson

Hello Everyone, After waiting for a total of about nine months, I've recently had an AfC declined for a second time: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Draft:Colin_Macpherson The most recent reason given was 'This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources'. I assumed this referred to a number of citations regarding reviews of the novels that CM has written. A number of these sources are not online -- being newspapers or journals that no longer exist and/or are only archived in microform. So I looked into this (the problem of 'recentism' being discussed in various Wikipedia fora) and found that providing an ISSN or OCLC within the citations -- (together with full quotations from the source) would suffice in such situations. (I have photocopies of the relevant newspaper reviews -- provided to me by CM -- so I know they are correct). So I've made these adjustments, and I'd like to get some feedback from more experienced WP editors before I consider whether to press the 'Resubmit' button or go down another path with all the work I've done. I should also mention that the WP notability requirement for this subject (CM) seems to be adequately met by his written works (particularly his novels). His music is just one of his many other endeavours-- but well worthy of mention, given that that is what he has concentrated on for the last decade or so.

I'll be really grateful for any support anyone might offer. Pomegranate Rose (talk) 02:50, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Pomegranate Rose, it seems you have a conflict of interest on this topic. Yet you have not made the necessary disclosures. This can be one of the reasons that causes other editors to be disinclined to assist you or assist you speedily. So, please do so.

As for the draft, based on a brief look, it is quite obvious that the subject is definitely not a musician (or at least a musician who would merit a Wikipedia article; see WP:GARAGE, admittedly takes an effort to look past the insults and focus on the salient points). You note above that the subject is notable as an author. Yet your draft begins asserting that he's a great musician, and by the way, also an author. Don't you think that that would make the draft misleading, and therefore contrary to Wikipedia's mission?

Regarding the waiting time, when it says four months, it's an upper bound. Drafts that take that kind of waiting time are hard to review, and part of the blame is on you, the author. You have got 46 references. Yet most of the references that are easily checked are not "independent secondary reliable sources" of repute, as WP:GNG demands. When you have the first sentence on Music saying "Macpherson's music has been characterized as alternative folk, " and clicking on the citation takes you to an Apple music listing categorised as alternative folk, it's obvious that this is a promotional piece employing WP:REFBOMBING, and therefore unsuitable for Wikipedia in its current form. That was just one example.

Regards! Usedtobecool ☎️ 03:48, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@☎️, you refer to WP:GARAGE and looking past the insults there in order to "focus on the salient points". Yet your response above is in much the same vein. To write that "it is quite obvious that the subject is definitely not a musician" is quite clearly an insult based on total ignorance of the subject. As soon as I read that, it made any further comments by you obviously biased (nastiness mixed with what purports to be objectivity leads to nowhere). Normally, I would be happy to discuss the issues you raise -- and many of them are clearly erroneous and worthy of debate -- but your contrary and pompous attitude make such discussion not worthy of my time. What a sad outcome. In the past, The Teahouse has been a place of respect and support.

Regards! Pomegranate Rose (talk) 05:26, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Pomegranate Rose Whilst I agree that WP:GARAGE is unhelpfully blunt, your dismissal of @Usedtobecool’s advice and feedback is unwarranted. Perhaps you are too close to the subject to take it on board. I see nothing that makes this musician a NOTABLE Musician (which is what UtbC meant) and there is far too much trivial content to make finding evidence he meets WP:NMUSIC easy, even if it is there (hence the long delay in review you have experienced). So, my advice (assuming you do actually want to have our help) is to return and give us links to just ‘’three’’ sources which quickly prove how he meets either WP:NMUSIC or WP:NBIO notability criteria. If you can’t do that, your draft will never be acceptable here, no matter how much you try. Sorry. Nick Moyes (talk) 08:23, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes Look, I'll pass over comments about what's warranted or unwarranted, and what someone else meant rather than what they said, etc., and just say thank you for your more professional and helpful response. And, of course I want your help -- that's why I posted my original request. Getting to the issue of notability criteria, I thought that the citations of reviews for the novels, and the citations of the sample academic papers and popular print-media articles would easily establish notability. The citations for the academic journal papers give definitive online links, as do the popular-press articles (albeit sometimes via library-membership requirements); and the novel reviews are a mix of online and off-line sources (the off-line sources being an issue I mentioned in my initial post: you cannot expect reviews from twenty years ago in newspapers and magazines to all be easily available online -- but they are accessible, and they should be considered just as significant as more-recent online material). There are far more than three sources in the 'Literary works' section of the draft article that clearly establish CM's notability WP:AUTHOR and WP:ACADEMIC, some may be 'quicker' than others as evidence but that's just the nature of the sources -- all the information is there, however. I would be grateful if you would scan these to confirm notability at least, and then advise whether I should perhaps substantially alter the article so that the 'Literary works' lead the piece, with a lesser mention of the music at the end. Thanks.

Pomegranate Rose (talk) 10:00, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

I have concerns about notability. His music appears to be self-released, and 2 of his 3 fiction books were self-published (Mopoke Publishing). On the books, the draft content reads like book jacket blurbs. Remove all the quotes. The refs can remain, even those not available online. Still unresolved is the question of whether you have a COI, meaning a personal connection to Colin. If true, state that on your User page. If not, state that on your Talk page. His website should not be a ref (currently #3 and #6). I know yo uhave been working on this for almost a year, and the review delays have been annoying. David notMD (talk) 10:47, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Pomegranate Rose, you also need to remove any editorialising from the draft, per MOS:EDITORIAL. For example, it currently includes the line, "with the research behind the story being credible enough for the book to be used in a course on 'dark information' at a leading US university", sourced to an information page about that course. There are several problems with this, including the fact that the source doesn't tell us why the story has been included (so "being credible enough" is your editorialising) and that "leading US university" is subjective. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:27, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

I

@David notMD Thanks for your comments. I'm not sure why you mention self-release of music and self-publication of books. Long gone are the days when these forms of publication were considered inferior -- much of the modern music industry centres on indie artists who are unsigned, and many, many highly-successful authors have self-published (including CM). But leaving that aside, I appreciate your suggestion about removing the quotes in the book descriptions. I purposely formatted the descriptions this way because I didn't want to appear to be editorializing. Do you mean I should just use my own words to describe the books but keep the words in line with the refs? The COI suggestion is annoying but I appreciate your advice in that regard. And I'll take on board your suggestion of not using links to CM's website (although citing autobiographical material seems to be no different from citing from biographical works that are based on information that comes directly from the subject.) Thank you for your advice and your time -- and especially your friendly and helpful tone.Pomegranate Rose (talk) 00:51, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Cordless Larry Thanks for your advice about instances of editorializing: I take your point and will address it -- just leaving the facts. As with the previous three editors, I appreciate your support and professionalism.Pomegranate Rose (talk) 00:51, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@David notMD Sorry for bothering you again, but I've just found that you inserted a signed 'Comment' at the top of the draft-CM article we've been discussing. I'm not sure why you did this without even waiting for me to respond here to your concerns, but regardless, shouldn't such a comment be in the article's 'Talk' page rather than in the body of the actual draft?...I've not seen this before, and it certainly messes up the draft. Also, regarding the actual comment, please consider what I've already said about that issue -- it really shouldn't be a concern these days. If I could, I'd move the comment to the Talk area -- where I think it should be -- but I don't know how to do that -- and I'd prefer to not simply delete it. I'd appreciate your help in this regard. In a number of ways, it seems that my initial request for advice is turning into a bit of a nightmare. I didn't think my dedication as a fan would be so draining. Pomegranate Rose (talk) 03:18, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Pomegranate Rose Comments in drafts are common, to help editors and reviewers. ―Qwerfjkltalk 06:42, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Queries at Teahouse can lead to information being discovered that a reviewer would not be aware of when considering a submitted draft. As Qwefjkl stated, Comments are common at drafts, either by a reviewer who declined the draft, or other editors. Self-publishing books and music albums is a relative but not absolute weakness when considering notability. The fact that Macpherson's books received favorable reviews is a positive. David notMD (talk) 11:06, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

On a separate note, I see that on your Talk page you have declared you are not being paid or otherwise compensated for work on this draft. You need to also address WP:COI. David notMD (talk) 11:19, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

COI Editing

Hi Teahouse! I haven't been on Wikipedia in a while but I wanted to jump back in quickly to ask a question. A company has recently approached me to help them build their Wikipedia page. I am still researching them to see if they would pass the notability guideline, but for future reference, how should this be properly disclosed assuming I think they pass the notability guideline? I've read WP:COI and understandably, COI editing seems to be frowned upon in the community. If I am getting paid to create an article that I think passes the guideline, should I submit the draft for publication and mention it in the talk page or the article's draft itself? Any help here would be much appreciated as I would really like the money, but I don't want to break policy. Thank you! MirzaTheGreatest (talk) 04:50, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@MirzaTheGreatest: Welcome to the Teahouse. If you are writing an article on behalf of a company, you will need to disclose the paid relationship on your user page ({{paid}} is a template that you can use). You can mention that you are doing this for pay on the draft's talk page to cover your bases, but understand that if it gets accepted into mainspace, you are strongly recommended to suggest further changes in the form of edit requests at the article's talk page.
With all that said, does the company understand that Wikipedia is not a venue to promote themselves? You should probably make them aware that they have no control over an article about them, and that having an article isn't necessarily a good thing. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 05:31, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

MirzaTheGreatest I'm curious as to how this company came to approach you; I assume they didn't just ask you off the street. In any event, any article that might exist about this company will not belong to the company; it won't be "their Wikipedia page", but a Wikipedia article about them. They will have no special rights to it(less actually, as they would need to make edit requests just as you will if accepted) and cannot prevent others from editing it. Any information about the company, good or bad, can be in an article about them. See WP:PROUD. 331dot (talk) 11:19, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

A note: IF you manage to create a draft, submit that to AfC, and it is accepted, from that point in time onward, neither you nor anyone from the company would be allowed to further edit the article. Instead, you (and they) would be restricted to proposing changes on the Talk page of the article, for non-connected editors to either incorporate into the article, or decline. David notMD (talk) 11:23, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Auto-confirmation of account

Why has my account not been auto confirmed yet? I've made close to a dozen edits now. I've given proper references for each edit and justification in its summary. My account has also existed for quite some days at this point. So when will it get auto confirmed?

Can someone please guide me? Somethingsomeoneqwerty (talk) 08:17, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Somethingsomeoneqwerty: welcome back. Your user rights log shows your account as being autoconfirmed. Why do you believe that it isn't? --bonadea contributions talk 08:35, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Bonadea: I'm sorry. I didn't realise that. I'm new to editing on Wikipedia. BTW why are some accounts shown in blue, and some in red? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Somethingsomeoneqwerty (talk • contribs)

@Somethingsomeoneqwerty: The red link in your username simply means you have not created a user page yet. You may click on it to create a userpage, with content in keeping with the user page guidelines. There is no requirement that a user create a user page, many users never create one.

331dot (talk) 12:24, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

May I create an article about my proprietary software?

Hello,

I created a software, it is ready, but not yet released, it is in pre-order state. I started a describing web site for it and made a public movie about its features. May I create an objective article about my proprietary software which refers to this publicly available web page and movie content? (The site is: https://BencsikRoland.hu/english/organizer -- please delete this comment, if not allowed.)

Thank you, Roland BencsikRoland (talk) 08:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@BencsikRoland Please read WP:NSOFTWARE. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 08:40, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Short answer: No. Longer answer: You should never create or edit an article if you have a conflict of interest in regard to the subject. To have an article you have be "notable" in the sense that wikipedia understands that term. You can not determine that. It has to be determined by others. --Bduke (talk) 08:54, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Content at Teahouse is not deleted. However, content is archived on a regular basis, so that anyone perusing recent Teahouse entries will not see the older stuff (albeit, still accessible by visiting the archives). Searches within Wikipedia or external (Google, etc.) do not 'see' Teahouse commentary. David notMD (talk) 12:01, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Ok, thank you! --BencsikRoland (talk) 13:14, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Citations when Subject is both Subject of a case study and Author of a case study

I cited a Harvard Business Review case study about Carol Fishman Cohen, authored by Myra M Hart, Robin J. Ely, and Susan Wojewoda (2003). Carol Fishman Cohen then authored a Harvard Business Review case study titled 'The 40-Year-Old-Intern' in 2012 that is also relevant to my topic.

Right now, I have the study about Cohen as a 'Further Reading' item and the study by Cohen as a citation but I could really use both studies as citations.

Is it acceptable to cite both the study 'about' and a study authored 'by' the same subject? Thank you. --Tchula65 (talk) 15:35, 16 July 2021 (UTC) Tchula65 (talk) 15:35, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Returnshp.   Maproom (talk) 16:35, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Please see this page and rectify the errors

Please see this page and rectify the errors. I have all the reference links, please get them from me wherever it is required. Munna Singh is a very famous Bhojpuri singer. I don't know how to add this page to a proper Wikipedia page. Please correct it. Thanks https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Munna_Singh_(Bhojpuri_Singer) Chandan.kaushik (talk) 16:42, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Without having access to the sources, we can't tell which source should be cited in support of which statement. You'll have to do that yourself. Maproom (talk) 16:49, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Please reconsider the publication of Draft:Continuous Innovation Framework

•  Courtesy link: Draft:Continuous Innovation Framework

Dear Robert,

I received notice that you declined my proposed article for the Continuous Innovation Framework. I would like to ask you to reconsider, as I believe that the article's references do meet the criteria of significant, reliable and secondary (see below). In addition, I would like to point that the subject is non-commercial, and published in open source. Also, in line with your remarks, I have made changes to what may have been construed as 'commercial' or 'self-promoting' content about training.

I do believe that the publication has significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject, for the following reasons

I feel that this coverage qualifies as significant: through the coverage it reaches the vast majority of the relevant industry experts and practitioners and it covers a broad range of publications, such as scientific publications, conferences, communities and published media.

I feel that the sources meet the criteria of being published, reliable and secondary sources: the sources are published and reliable in the sense that they are all long lasting, professional publications. They are secondary in the sense that they discuss the subject from an independent perspective and analyse its value against other options in the market (Portman), analyse its usability in practice (Consultancy.org) and argue its value for the market segment of SME's (InnovateGO).

There are several of such publications mentioned in the article. None of these were paid for or in any other way commercially influenced.

- A scientific study by H.M. Portman, describing and positioning the framework alongside other frameworks. The author H.M. Portman is fully independent from COIN or its founders and they have never met or communicated - An interview with a corporate staff member of a Ducth company that has implemented the COIN framework. The interview was executed and published by global publisher 'Consultancy.org', written and published independently from COIN or its founders - An article published by a Dutch government agency, InnovateGO, about their application of the COIN framework in a government program. The article was written and published without knowledge by and independently from COIN or its founders - An interview with COIN founder Arent van 't Spijker at a global community of practice 'The Innovation Cafe', which is independent from COIN and which happened at the request of the community. - An interview with COIN fonder Arent van 't Spijker on a global public webcast 'Invincible Innovation' by industry expert Adi Mazor Kario, at the request of mrs. Mazor Kario. - A post-conference publication on the COIN Framework (unpaid, unsollicited) from the Innov8rs Unconference, the world's largest conference on corporate innovation. Published without prior knowledge and independently from COIN or its founders. - An article on the SWICH method, written by COIN founders on request, published in the industry-leading independent, non-commercial publication 'InnovationManagement.se'.

I do hope you want to reconsider publishing the article on Wikipedia, as I believe it will help people to find their way to non-commercial, open-source content that is already being used by thousands of innovation practitioners across the globe every month.

Thank you very much,

Arent van 't Spijker Arentvantspijker (talk) 09:46, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Arentvantspijker, this is Wikipedia Teahouse where you can discuss general topics about Wikipedia with the whole Wikipedia community. If you want to talk to Robert McClenon, I recommend you go directly to User talk:Robert McClenon. I looked over the draft you wrote Draft:Continuous Innovation Framework and I agree with rejection for publiction (Robert McClenon provided sound and ample explanation for rejection, as did multiple other reviewers before). Courtesy pong for @Robert McClenon:. Anton.bersh (talk) 10:20, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Arentvantspijker. You say above I believe it will help people to find their way to non-commercial, open-source content that is already being used by thousands of innovation practitioners across the globe every month. That is called promotion, and is fundamentally contrary to the purposes of Wikipedia. --ColinFine (talk) 12:10, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Please also note, Arentvantspijker, that the draft has only been declined. This means the reviewer(s) judged that it is not yet suitable for Article status, but has the potential to become suitable if the problems described are successfully addressed.

If reviewers think that, at least for the present (see WP:Toosoon), an acceptable article about a particular subject probably cannot be created for other reasons, they instead reject the draft (and may in some circumstances delete it), meaning one should not waste one's own and their time by persisting with it (or trying to re-create it). This is not the case here, so you are welcome to try to improve the draft. I suggest you leave it alone for a couple of weeks (it won't be deleted for "abandonment" until 6 months of inactivity), then come back with a fresh eye, mindful of the requirement for a Neutral Point of View. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.177.31 (talk) 13:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

I will comment that the author resubmitted the draft with only very minor changes within hours after I declined it. That isn't usually useful, and in this case User:Theroadislong promptly declined it again, and put a conflict of interest tag on it. I will also ask User:Arentvantspijker what their affiliation is with the framework. I will also say that if the author had posted such a lengthy advertisement for the draft on my talk page, I would have said that it was a lengthy advertisement for the draft. I thank User:ColinFine for being concise. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:02, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Notable persons, but very few in English sources as of yet? Agegnehu Teshager

Greetings! I have a question in general about notable people who don't have a lot of coverage in English sources, can i for example use Amharic sources to create articles instead? I thought about creating a article about Agegnehu Teshager the regional president of a Ethiopian region, who has been getting in the Ethiopian news a lot recently, but there are still very few English sources about him. Can i use Amharic sources? Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 18:16, 16 July 2021 (UTC) Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 18:16, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dawit S Gondaria: You can use reliable sources that are not in English, though if there's an equivalent English source, the latter will be preferred (as WP:NONENG describes). Issues may arise if the sources' verifiability is called into question and not many editors are familiar with the language, but that's another issue. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:33, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Tenryuu Okay thanks! Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 18:43, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

My Article is Reading More like an Advertisement

Previous discussion : Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1116#Source suggestions

Hello!

I am writing about Penn State's College of Nursing due to it's importance to future nursing students and the greater medical community. One issue I am running in to is that the article is getting declined because it reads more like an advertisement. Because I work closely with the college, I'm not sure if I am unintentionally adding any sort of biased language! I am gathering most of my information from Penn State sources, but that is simply because those sources give the most detail about the program itself, therefore allowing me to write a more complete and accurate article. Does anyone have any suggestions for ways to avoid using this language, areas I can edit, or any other advice? Here is my article: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Draft:The_Pennsylvania_State_University_College_of_Nursing Thank you so so much! Annalisemara (talk) 17:07, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Annalisemara: Before you start getting into the details of the program, a more glaring concern is that the draft isn't cited correctly; you're going to want to see Nick Moyes' easier referencing for beginners for how to do that.
If you're writing about this subject because of it's [sic] importance to future nursing students and the greater medical community, you're going to have an incredibly hard time keeping the writing neutral. A thing that jumps out to me as ad copy is talking about people and then listing their credentials right afterward. There shouldn't be a need to do that, as that makes it sound like you're persuading others about how wonderful the program is, which is not Wikipedia's purpose. As I have hinted it before in the previous discussion, try and find sources not connected to Penn State, because those sources have a better chance of being independent from the subject, and thus better reliable sources.
Reading your reason as to why you're creating this draft, please disclose your conflict of interest; there are details on how to do so here. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:25, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Annalisemara: It's easy to get burned by overeager deletionists - I quit proposing anything because of that. I would suggest that, since it has a new name, Ross and Carol Nese College of Nursing, a start class article could be created with https://www.centredaily.com/news/local/education/penn-state/article252814728.html as a reference. Let others work on your concept of an article on this tough to enroll in school. To an extent, it's possible to use Wikipedia as a PR vehicle, but it is cheating to do that. Start a new draft containing very little content. - 66.102.220.134 (talk) 17:48, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

I disagree with what IP 66 (not a Teahouse host) recommended. However, you MUST first address the query about PAID and COI on your Talk page. Neither preclude your creating an article, but if either true clearly state that on your User page. David notMD (talk) 18:57, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Draft sounds like advertisement

FYI

 – Heading added by Tenryuu.

Hello, can someone please review my page (Richmond Triangle Players) and tell me what about it makes it seem like and "advertisement" per the reviewers who have rejected my submission? Think804 (talk) 18:24, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Think804. Your draft contains entirely unreferenced promotional language like, Richmond Triangle Players was created initially as a haven for gay and lesbian actors and artists to produce work. Its audiences at the time were made up of Richmond’s community and others interested in the material. As early as its first full season, its programming was noted by the local press, and the theatre soon began to be discovered by the community at large. It is the only professional theatre company in Central Virginia and the longest continually operating one in the Mid-Atlantic region which regularly serves the LGBTQ+ community. Evaluative language like that needs to be referenced to reliable independent sources. There are other examples of unreferenced promotional language as well. The entire section about the history of the Pink triangle is superfluous since there is already a well-developed article on that topic that any interested person can read. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 18:59, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Also, your draft has not been rejected, Think804. It has just not been accepted at this time, and that is an important distinction. If you pay close attention to the core content policies Neutral point of view and Verifiability and No original research, and edit accordingly, I think your draft will be accepted. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:06, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

My article submission is failed

Hello, I'm new editor here. I created a article here but it's declined. I added so many independent source. Why it's declined? anyone say me? here is my wikipedia draft. https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Draft:Shovon_Ahmed Baghdas3 (talk) 18:46, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Holy citation overkill! —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 18:49, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Baghdas3: I can't read Bengali, but the English sources there do not appear to demonstrate notability. This is the info that was left when the draft was declined. The English sources except for one seem to be brief fan profiles. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 20:01, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Welsh tags

Why have some edit tags started appearing in Welsh on the English Wikipedia? Murgatroyd49 (talk) 18:58, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Rwy'n dychmygu ei fod yn rhyw fath o nam? —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 19:08, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Murgatroyd49. It is a known error that is related to a language selection issue. It is being discussed in several places and people with technical skills are working to resolve it. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:11, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

That's not helpful, @Jéské Couriano.

@Murgatroyd49: Please see WP:VPT#Tags; chances are you've set your interface language to en-gb. It's being worked on, but you should change your interface language to en for the time being. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:13, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Murgatroyd49 (talk) 19:17, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Where is the "interface language" setting? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 19:41, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

John Maynard Friedman under "Preferences" and "User Profile", if you scroll down you will see "Internationalisation". Under that is Language with a drop down box. You can choose your language preference from there. --ARoseWolf 19:45, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

TYVM, I swear I searched every line of every tab and somehow managed to miss that. "None so blind as those who will not see". I guess was expecting to see Cymraeg or similar. Dwi'n gochi nawr --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 20:04, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

John Maynard Friedman, Oh, you blush easily too? (lol) --ARoseWolf 20:21, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Non clickable button

Moved to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) § Non clickable button

 – ―Qwerfjkltalk 20:51, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Links working strangely

Here, wikilinks are displaying as external links, probably because of the /. Example:[[//U//'e language]]produces [language]. Any idea how to fix this? ―Qwerfjkltalk 20:44, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Qwerfjkl: Insert a semicolon at the start of the link, e.g [[://U//'e language]] produces //U//'e language. 192.76.8.91 (talk) 21:04, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

That's a colon. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:13, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Correct, seems I made a typo. Not sure how I got that wrong. 192.76.8.91 (talk) 21:19, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Creating article that is currently a redirect

Let me know if this is unclear––

Someone made an article for L'Rain, the self-titled album by an artist/curator whose music is released under the name L'Rain. Unfortunately, they named the article itself "L'Rain" rather than disambiguating it as an album title, and there is not currently an article for the artist; I moved the album article to L'Rain (album), but L'Rain is now a redirect to that (album) page.

I've drafted an article for L'Rain here, but I don't know how to create a new article on the page of a redirect.

[Edit: I originally also asked, "Should I publish this draft as "Taja Cheek" (given name) or "L'Rain" (professional name)?" but just reviewed her highest-profile features (in the New York Times, Teen Vogue, NPR, Pitchfork, & Bandcamp) & they *all* identify her as "L'Rain", so it seems clear that should be the article title––"L'Rain" & "Cheek" can then be used interchangeably in the article, as with those other outlets, & the top of the page can say, "for the album, see L'Rain (album)".]

Thanks! Knifegames (talk) 11:39, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

@Knifegames: Welcome to the Teahouse. I'd keep working on the draft as it is right now. Add {{subst:submit}} when you're done, and don't worry about titles at this point in time: a reviewer will be the one to determine which title the draft gets moved to if it gets approved. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 13:29, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Tenryuu––I actually just needed to know how to create an article on the page of an unnecessary redirect, but I figured it out. :) I've published the L'Rain article, created a new talk page on *that* redirect, & have updated all internal links; let me know if you can think of anything else I should check! Knifegames (talk) 21:49, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Roofit.solar draft re-submitted

Hello My draft Roofit Solar was declined once and the comments were that some more sources needed to be provided. I did so and resubmitted it. However, now some other reviewer wrote that it has not been accepted because it included copyrighted content, which is not permitted on Wikipedia. How is that possible that the first reviewer did not see that copyright issue but the second one saw it? I am really confused. Tea Mariamidze (talk) 11:46, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Tea Mariamidze! Issues like insufficient sourcing are easier to spot right away than plagiarism, so they'll typically be noticed earlier in the review process. Either way, you need to fix that, as plagiarism is a huge problem. Bsoyka (talk · contribs) 12:23, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Your confusion surprises me, Tea Mariamidze. In my own everyday life, it's common that somebody I'm with notices something that I don't notice, and on occasion I notice something that nobody else notices. Anyway, who noticed it, and when, is a trivial matter. What does matter is that Bogger warned about copyright violation and that you haven't subsequently reedited Draft:Roofit Solar Energy to remove this material. Or are you saying that no, there is no copyright violation? -- Hoary (talk) 12:29, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

I just need more explanation of where the copyright problem is as I am willing to fix the flaws.Tea Mariamidze (talk) 12:59, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

The following text is copied directly from the Roofit Solar website "Roofit.solar got EUR 378,423,36 (without VAT) grant under the NUTIKAS project aimed to investigate the degradation mechanism in chosen polymeric encapsulants used in the photovoltaic industry. The implementation period of the project is 1.05.2020-31.08.2022 and it is supported by the Estonian Research Council and the Archimedes Foundation." Delete all of that. You could state that Roofit Solar received a grant via the NUTIKAS project, but even that needs a ref other than the Roofit Solar website. David notMD (talk) 14:56, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Courtesy: Draft:Roofit Solar Energy. David notMD (talk) 21:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Yet again, an editor directly contradicts the source, presents his own belief as the status quo and claims that his beliefs were not found in the source because of someone's motivated reasoning (i.e. myself)

Yet again, an editor directly contradicts the source, presents his own belief as the status quo and claims that his beliefs were not found in the source because of someone's motivated reasoning (i.e. myself)

It's high time that a veteran editor on Islam steps in and sorts out the mess in the article Iblis. Kindly check the edit history to understand why.

}} Sulṭān ʿAbdullāh al-Hindi ^Talk 12:38, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Sultan.abdullah.hindi: Welcome to the Teahouse. Please discuss the point of contention at Talk:Iblis and don't argue through edit summaries while reverting; edit warring is not beneficial to either party. If you're unable to come to an agreement, you may want to check out some of the venues for dispute resolution. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 12:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Tenryuu: I was hoping that an experienced editor would be able to understand and take hold of the situation. Appreciate the tips! - Sulṭān ʿAbdullāh al-Hindi ^Talk 14:11, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Sultan.abdullah.hindi: You could try asking at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Islam to see if any interested editors are willing to chip in. I don't know how active they are, though. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

There's also Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:44, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Tenryuu: and @Gråbergs Gråa Sång: Appreciate the tip! I'll try talking to the editors of those projects. - Sulṭān ʿAbdullāh al-Hindi ^Talk 15:42, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

You and VenusFeuerFalle have each edited on many article related to Islam. The proper place to have a discussion is on the Iblis Talk page. Please be patient with each other, as I am willing to believe that you are both editing in good faith. From looking at VFF's Talk page history, I saw that the status of Iblis has been discussed (heatedly) in the past. David notMD (talk) 15:06, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@David notMD: I will move this there, in shaa ALLAH ta-'ala. And that's an extremely important point that you've raised actually. This difference of opinions among scholars and academics is exactly the reason why Dajjal is a VERY good example of what an article should be like. It totally clarifies the sect-relevant beliefs instead of convoluting everything together and presenting the different opinions A, B and C as D in one paragraph prioritizing one scholar over the other. Why I mention this 'prioritization' is because the other editor clearly states in his user page that he BELIEVES that in Islam, Iblis is an angel and this is actually reflected in the article itself as well. :( - Sulṭān ʿAbdullāh al-Hindi ^Talk 15:42, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict)User:Sultan.abdullah.hindi, I don't know anything about this, but let's see... your first edit was to remove File:Encounter_by_Candlelight_(with_black_man).jpg on grounds (I gather) that since he can't be seen by humans how can we have a picture of him, or else that anyway the people who made the picture don't have standing to say what Iblis looks like.

But we aren't saying "Iblis looked like this". I mean, of course not: he doesn't look like anything, he's made up. We're just saying "Here's a picture that somebody made of Iblis". That's all. (And that the picture if from a historically/culturaly significant source so it's worth showing.)

(As to the "made up" part, sorry, and doubly sorry if I hurt your feelings, but we're a secular Enlightenment entity and we can't trim our sails to spare anyone's feelings. It doesn't mean we don't describe all kinds of things about Islam and Islamic culture with respect and attention to various subtleties, or that we don't respect the beliefs of Wikipedians like yourself, or that we're going to be in people's faces about our secularism, just that we're not going to take religious documents such as those saying Iblis is real) on faith (since we don't anything on faith).)

I didn't explore beyond that first edit, but since that first one was probably wrong by our standards, you might want to meet people halfway and consider that you might be wrong about other stuff too. Not that you are (I haven't checked), but that you might be. That'd be a attitude of humility which might be a good start to working things with other editors on the article talk page. Good luck and happy wiki'ing! Herostratus (talk) 15:25, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Herostratus: I mean, this is a wholly different philosophical discussion and me being a radical skeptic at one point would argue that you can't really prove anything at all and it's all about believing and stuff but that's not really a path I want this conversation to take. Moving on to the main point of the discussion, I would really encourage going beyond that edit because while I did remove the image, I also said that it should rather be placed in a different section on that matter (of the depiction of the said entity in "Islamic" art) so as to represent the beliefs of different sects properly and of course, to be considerate and respectful of them. Of course, I have made mistakes and my mistakes have been reverted by other editors - from which I have moved on trying to be better at this but yeah, basically what I said before. Kindly check the reply to David NotMD above to understand my position a bit better. Appreciate the tips. - Sulṭān ʿAbdullāh al-Hindi ^Talk 15:42, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

re "I also said that it should rather be placed in a different section on that matter", oops my bad, I just went by that edit summary (yes it was very shallow view). I believe that the general agreement in academic philosophy is that some things probably exist, altho I suppose we can't be sure. Herostratus (talk) 20:24, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Here is a point I want to interfer: Where did I said this things (for example I hold Iblis to be an angel)? This is not my personal opinnion but this reflects both Muslim sources as well as the academic studies of Islam. The sources are given within the very article, I once extented about this subject massivly. If there is any bias, I appreciate any support to remove them, but please not by twisting context, ignoring the sources or blaming me for things I have not done! Regarding the images, we can disagree about if "Arts" can be called "Islamic" or not, depending to whom we give more weight; the Muslim jurisprudence (who usually agree that images are forbidden) or the experience of Muslims themselves (who obviously have not hesitated to make images nevertheless, but not statues. There are also angels in Art, not only Siyah Kalam's demons). For this debate I would recommand you to read Shahab Ahmed's "What is Islam?", before heading into a pointless discussion biased by personal preferences, to have common ground. He pretty much adresses this issue. I actually feel kind of assaulted by the claim "Yet again" and "the users personal beliefs are reflected in the article", which is not true. I do my hardest to harmonize contradicting statements and always consult further sources, which analyzed these issues. You are always welcome for criticism but please do not state or imply something about me what I did not. Regarding the rest of the text, I agree with @Herostratus: the place of images is something for the IslamProject itself. Otherwise, I would just go with the sources. Details can always explained by the image description. No one claims, for example, that iconographic representations are "real" images of devils, demons, angels or the like.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 21:03, 16 July 2021 (UTC) Edit: I added a list of quotes, which I used to verify my edits, when @Siltan.abdullah.hindi: claimed, I would contradict the sources. They might point out exactly there I am supposed to be wrong about, on the talkpage. Also note, it can take some time until I respond, I am still quite busy.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 22:12, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Dr. Kilaparti Ramakrishna

FYI

 – This has been asked at the help desk. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Can someone please finish the Wikipedia page on Dr. Kilaparti Ramakrishna? I created it but am not sure how to finish it, add an image, or publish it. I submitted it for review, but not sure if it went through. Thank you! RameshR.18.3200 (talk) 22:17, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@RameshR.18.3200: Welcome to the Teahouse. Please ask either here or at the Help Desk. You have already received an answer at the latter. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:37, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

SATURDAY HERALD

Do you plan to reduce the size?? 122.60.182.64 (talk) 22:38, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. Could you please clarify your question? We don't seem to have an article for Saturday Herald. Is this about editing or using Wikipedia? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:48, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Draft:Wayne_Doba

C I have submitted a page and the reason for refusal was " There were also no references added since last decline other than a reference to a Wikipedia article which can never be used as a reliable source. CNMall41 (talk) 22:18, 14 July 2021 (UTC)" I do not understand why CNMall41 wrote this. There are no references to Wikipedia and I added 6 new citations with links to online newspaper articles. Thanks for any help you can give me. Carol CarolSusanHalls (talk) 15:54, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@CarolSusanHalls: I am pretty sure CNMall41 refers to ref #5, which is just a link to another Wikipedia article, as well as ref #9, which is a link pointing to the edit link of this very draft. See WP:CIRCULAR for more info. Victor Schmidt (talk) 16:11, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, CarolSusanHalls. Your current "reference" #5 is a link to the Wikipedia article The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, a film that Doba was not part of. Why is that even mentioned? Your SFGate reference #9 links back to your draft, not to SFGate. I read several of the Seattle Times articles, and they just mention Doba briefly. As does the other SFGate article by Philip Elwood at #15. Which are your three best sources that devote significant coverage to Doba and not just to projects that he has been involved with? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 16:21, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Cullen328:, @Victor Schmidt:, @CarolSusanHalls:, I apologize as I looked at this closer which is the difference between the previous decline (prior to mine) and the resubmitted. There were references added but they are from Wikipedia, IMDb, TV Guide, and TCM. None of them show notability of the topic however. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:08, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Atomated robot

This automated robot removed all my content and reports it as "vandalism" tho I am just adding traditional dishes  Franco tradisionele disse (talk) 16:22, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Franco tradisionele disse Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. The bots detect your edits as vandalism because they appear to just be adding random information even though that is not your intention. Part of the problem is that most of the dishes you are adding to the list do not have articles associated with them or some other citation. The lists like that are not for adding every possible member of the list, just those with articles. 331dot (talk) 16:28, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Franco tradisionele disse, in one case, you mentioned Amarula, an alcoholic beverage which has an article, but did not link to it. There is also an article about Sclerocarya birrea, known as the Marula tree. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 16:33, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Franco tradisionele disse another "clue" that could trigger Cluebot is that none of your additions included a reference to a source. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Where you typed "version straks", maybe you meant "venison steaks"? Maproom (talk) 16:45, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Oof

Colleagues, most of what you said is correct, but the new editor was mistreated by being called a vandal or possible vandal, and if a human being had done that she would have been scolded. Robots do not a get a special pass to insult.

I think that's main point we want to bring forward to be as welcoming as possible.

Hello User:Franco tradisionele disse. Yes you have been poorly used. Were I you, I would be distressed and angry, and properly so. Your contributions were 'NOT vandalism, and it was an egregious insult for anyone to say that, robot or person.

OK, so let's talk about what happened. User:ClueBot NG is a robot, and generally a very good one. In this instance it went out of control. I have not seen this before, and I am worried. So this is not a typical ClueBot interaction.

Let me also say that your edits were fine. They were quite acceptable for a brand new editor, and thank you, and welcome to the Wikipedia! Please understand that this is huge and fast-moving website and people (and robots!) are trying their best to be as welcoming as possible, but there's lots to do and we can't always take as much time as we'd like for each individual case. Our apologies.

So, regarding ClueBot. I will report the error, but it won't do any good. ClueBot is not really under human control anymore. Nobody can really go in and tweak the code to "fix" it. It's a (specialized) artificial intelligence. Once created, and after a certain amount of human-assisted tweaking I suppose, it was told to go and teach itself what is or not vandalism. The original creators themselves don't know exactly why it does things anymore and can't change it. That is what they told me.

OK. My point so far is that your edits should not have been characterized as vandalism.

Now, as to the actual contents of your edits. First of all, (attention [[User:331dot) they were not "random information". There exists a section called "Typical South African foods and dishes" which consists of a bulleted list of scores of dishes. Most have links to articles but many do not. User:Franco tradisionele disse added a few more bullets of the same kind of dishes in the same format. This is what we want editors to do: add useful information to the Wikipedia.

Colleagues, reasonable people can disagree whether that information is actually useful (I think it is), and whether the list should be trimmed, or made longer, or deleted altogether, or moved to its own article, or kept as is but with further additions discouraged, or the text trimmed, or turned into prose, or whatever. I think it's fine, but reasonable people may disagree, and maybe they can get it deleted. And fine. NOT fine: keeping it (thus implying that it's fine and may be added to), but then rolling back new additions on slim grounds and, especially, calling the person a vandal, or maybe a vandal.

Now, User:Franco tradisionele disse, your contributions were fine but not perfect. (I mean of course they aren't, since you are brand new.) They didn't have attached sources, which are supposed to be required (altho unfortunatly millions of statements here don't). Wikipedia:Reliable sources explains this in some detail. User:Dodger67 is correct about that. But if it was me, I would have probably just tagged them with "citation needed" since 1) they are probably true, and 2) they are not really key points like the date of the Franco-Prussian war or whatever, and 3) obtainable sources probably exist, and 4)the material is brand new, so let's give it a little time for somebody (maybe you, maybe not) to come along and add sources.

But it wasn't me. It was robot violating the First Law of Robotics, assuming that "injure" includes "insult".

User:Maproom, getting one world wrong (possibly an autocorrect, venison->version) and then misspelling a single word by a single letter is grounds for a correction being made, not the entire entire contribution rolled back and the contributor called a vandal.

Herostratus: I made several constructive changes to one of the items Franco tradisionele disse had added to the article. He has thanked me for them. I have rolled nothing back, and called no-one a vandal. But I was not confident of my understanding of "version straks", particularly in a context that includes "Amarula" and "roosterkoek", so I mentioned it here in the hope that he would read this thread and correct it. But I forgot to ping him. I have done so now. Maproom (talk) 20:29, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

[[User:Cullen328, you wrote "in one case, you mentioned Amarula, an alcoholic beverage which has an article, but did not link to it". Well how the heck is a brand new user supposed to know that's useful, and there are millions of terms here that have articles that aren't linked to, and I've never heard that linking is required (in fact overlinking is our main problem), or that not doing is is grounds for reverting edits (rather than adding the link yourself or just moving on), let alone saying they are vandalism. That it's a robot rather than a human is no excuse whatsoever, and if the robot isn't able to handle that the robot -- not User:Franco tradisionele disse -- needs to be scolded. If the robot is going to continue in this direction it needs to be turned off and looked at under the hood.

User:Franco tradisionele disse, I'll look at some of your edits and be back presently. Herostratus (talk) 19:34, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Herostratus I didn't say the information was random, I said it appeared to be random. And I certainly understand that the user is new, which is why I explained that lists typically list existing articles. Perhaps I could have added "or the prospect of being an article" 331dot (talk) 19:39, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

User:331dot does it really look random to you? It's additions to a list in similar format to the list. You could call it trivial I suppose, but 1) that's way different from random, and 2) only if the other items (or anyway the non-bluelinked items) on the list are also trivial, which how is an editor supposed to know that since they haven't been removed. Accept the edits then being a process to trim the list equitably. Herostratus (talk) 20:21, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, not to me, to the bot. 331dot (talk) 20:22, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

User:331dot, right, the bot. I love ClueBot, it is almost always spot on, like 99%+ percent of the time. The one or two missteps I've seen are reverting bad edits which definitely should have been reverted but weren't actually vandalism. (I'm going to suggest it change "vandalism" to "unacceptable edit" or something, that would solve most of the rare problems). But in this one case what it did, if it was a human, would have made me complain to her.

So, I don't think we should even be looking like we are defending the bot in this case, is my point. It's liable to chase this promising new editor away.

I get that we're all super busy. I don't work the teahouse much, and many thanks to those who do this critical task, but when I drop in for an occasional visit I usually pick one thread and dig into it (as here) and write a lot. That's how I roll, but I get it that if everyone did that we wouldn't be able to handle the volume. So, looking at it a bit more, I deduced that (IMO, but pretty sure I'm right) that the user deserved an apology in this unusual case. Herostratus (talk) 21:28, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Herostratus, the message that ClueBot left at Franco tradisionele disse's talk page does not use the word vandalism or any synonym. It is not rude and openly acknowledges that there are a small number of false positives. Franco tradisionele disse must have clicked a link to learn that it is an anti-vandalism bot and construed that they were being accused of vandalism. I believe that their use of the word "mosbeskuit" triggered the bot. This is an Afrikaans language word and its only use on English Wikipedia is in Franco tradisionele disse's restored edit. A quick Google search shows the word used in Afrikaans articles and websites but no easily findable English language sources. As for your claim that overlinking is a problem, perhaps that is true but not in this case. We have a genuine problem with people adding inappropriate entries to lists. It is a major problem, for example, in alumni lists where the names of non-notable people are added constantly, and a reasonable and common solution is to remove all entries that are not blue links. In this particular case, a good solution may be to allow list entries that are blue links or where a reference to a reliable source had been furnished. I also agree that citation needed tags are better than deleting plausible new good faith content, and most of Franco tradisionele disse's recent edits still stand. We do not want vandals to clog up this list with "rat fried in petroleum" rendered in Afrikaans or Zulu or any other such phony content. Also worth noting is that Franco tradisionele disse is conversing with Dodger67, an administrator who is fluent in Afrikaans. So, the situation is not nearly as dire as you portray Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:53, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

User Talk Christopher Shay

"The proposed article does not have sufficient content to require an article of its own, but it could be merged into the existing article at Symphony No. 9 (Beethoven). Since anyone can edit Wikipedia, you are welcome to add that information yourself. Thank you." And "But only immerse the source material and not as an essay" Source material? Does this mean that Wikipedia does not want my original observations about Beethoven? Christopher Shay (talk) 01:27, 17 July 2021 (UTC) Christopher Shay (talk) 01:27, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Christopher Shay, that is exactly right. We are not looking for subject matter experts to share their original research here. "OR" is anathema, because this is only a crowd-sourced encyclopedia. We only state what is found in reliable sources, so that all donated content is verifiable. If we had to individually vet every contribution, Wikipedia would be much more limited than it is today.--Quisqualis (talk) 01:45, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Please edit this template

In this template, is it possible to replace the name Haute-Normandie to Upper Normandy? Or just add this link to it? Excellenc1📞 16:31, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Excellenc1, you can edit the template by clicking at the "E" in the upper-left corner of the template. You can yourself replace and edit the template. Lightbluerain❄ (Talk | contribs) 16:34, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Lightbluerain, I have added the link. Excellenc1📞 03:14, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Welcome. Lightbluerain❄ (Talk | contribs) 06:44, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

I would like to specify the page number in Google Books

 Courtesy link: Function of several complex variables § Levi problem (ref.57 ISBN 9784431568513.)

I need p.109 for reference, and I noticed that the preview is available in Google Books. but I don't know how to link. (How to link directly to page 109.) Thank you for your help. SilverMatsu (talk) 00:29, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@SilverMatsu: It seems you already have the reference info inputted correctly. You could add the {{rp}} template right after the reference to denote a page number. I unfortunately am not aware of how to link to an anchor to page 109 of the book on Google Books. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:57, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@Tenryuu: Thank you for teaching me. I added {{rp}}.--SilverMatsu (talk) 05:09, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@SilverMatsu: Google Books directly supports this ... first, display the page through Goole Books, click on the "3-dots" and select "share". It will display, or you can click "copy" for it to copy to your paste buffer. For instance, this link should take you directly to page 109. Fabrickator (talk) 05:47, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@Fabrickator: Thank you for teaching me. I added url. You taught me the procedure in detail, so I think I can do it myself next time. --SilverMatsu (talk) 08:31, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

How can I

How can I return back Wikipedia delete articles Wikicontributority (talk) 08:53, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Wikicontributority Depends. If the article-subject doesn't meet the demands of WP:N, you can't. But if after reading WP:N you conclude "Yeah, I have those sources, no problem!", then you can give it a go. Start with WP:YFA. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:08, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

All different types of page protection

May I know what are all different types of page protection on Wikipedia? 42.60.18.87 (talk) 09:10, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

hi ip user! the types of protections can be found over at WP:PROTECTION. in short, the important ones are pending changes-protected (white), semi-protection (silver), extended-protection (blue), create-protected (sky blue, also known as salting), template-protected (pink), and fully-protected (gold) pages.   melecie   t 09:17, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Golygu ar declyn symudol Golygiad gwe symudol

The above has been appearing in edsums on my watchlist all morning, various editors. Isn't this the english language wikipedia? What does it mean? Is W?F doing something odd, or rather more odd than usual? -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 05:47, 16 July 2021 (UTC).

According to your friend Google Translate, it means Editing on a mobile device Mobile web editing in Welsh. I know no more than that. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:51, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Roxy the dog: Are you using en-gb as your interface language, by any chance? This is a noted issue (T286679) and should be resolved soon (hopefully). There's a discussion over at Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)/Archive 67#Tags in Welsh that talks about the issue. Temporary solution is to change your interface language to en (Sauce). —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:00, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Brilliant! Thanks for that pointer, Tenryuu, I didn't have my prefs set to en-gb, for some reason, but having changed them, I get the Welsh edit summaries as well. (I understand it is annoying to most non-Welsh speakers, but for this non-Welsh speaker it is a feature rather than a bug.) --bonadea contributions talk 08:06, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Newyddion rhyfeddol! When do we get also Kernewek?? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:45, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

It's official: the Welsh are setting their plans of world domination into action. Pretty soon every city in the world will have names like Llanfairpwllgwyngyll. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 12:38, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Lol. "Bring it dude!!" Pah! just wait until the Maoris get here! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:56, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Martinevans123: The Maoris are already here, and they got here first: whilst "wiki" is a Hawaiian word meaning "quick", it's the same in Maori, which isn't surprising - both languages have a recent common ancestor in Central–Eastern Polynesian. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:26, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Wow, thanks Redrose64, I never knew. Should have guessed, as it's an anagram of kiwi!! Dame Wiki Te Kanawa 123 (talk) 10:02, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Difference between source and visual editing

May I know what is a difference between source and visual editing? 42.60.18.87 (talk) 09:54, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

See WP:TUTORIAL. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:02, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Create a Wikipedia page for a pianist.

Hello, I would like to create a Wikipedia page for my piano teacher to thanks her for her hard work, but I don't know how I have to start. So I would be grateful if you can help me to create a Wikipedia page for her.

Her biography and her Instagram page links are below:

https://yaldasamadi.com/biography/

https://www.instagram.com/yalda_samadii/

Many thanks for your help, Amir Amirkm82 (talk) 23:34, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Amirkm82: Welcome to the Teahouse. You're going to want to read Your first article, but seeing as you're her student, you should disclose your conflict of interest, and understand that Samadi has to be notable by Wikipedia's standards. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:40, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Amirkm82, and welcome to the Teahouse. I understand why you might want to do something like this for your teacher, but I'm afraid that Wikipedia is a very very bad place to do this. Your attempt is likely to result in frustration and disappointment, both for you and for her. Here are some of the reasons:

1. Wikipedia will accept an article on her only if she meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability. This depends mostly not on what she has done, but on what people have published about her. Most music teachers do not meet these criteria.
2. If she is notable, and an article is accepted, the article will not be "her page" but "Wikipedia's article about her". She (and you) will not own it, and not control its contents. If it should happen that something critical or disparaging gets published about her somewhere, then that information may get added to the article, and neither you nor she can prevent that.
3. Wikipedia articles are required to be neutral summaries of what has been independently published about the subject. Nothing that you know about her should go in the article unless you can find a published source that confirms it; and your opinions (including your gratitude) should not appear in the article at all.
4. Creating an acceptable article is one of the most difficult tasks there is for an inexperienced editor in Wikipedia. Doing so about a person you have a connection with is even harder (because it will be harder for you to stay neutral).

I suggest that you read WP:NOT and WP:PROUD before you go any further. If you wish to contribute to editing Wikipedia (please do!) I recommend you start with making small changes to some of our existing six million articles before trying to create a new one; and when you do try creating an article, choose a subject that you do not have a personal connection with. After all that, you will be better placed to see if an article about your teacher is possible, and how to go about it. --ColinFine (talk) 11:07, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Create a Wikipedia page for Ojayy Wright.

 Courtesy link: Draft:Ojayy Wright

Hi Teahouse, I'm not new editor in wikipedia. I need your support to publish Ojayy Wright article, He is a popular person in Nigeria and some bilingual country as Cameroon. There are many press which talk about Ojayy Wright. Please, let us take a look on this article to manage as well its publication. Thank you.

 Bile rene (talk) 00:13, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Teahouse volunteers are here to answer questions about how to edit Wikipedia, but are not here to be co-authors. David notMD (talk) 04:06, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

How to publish this article, please?Bile rene (talk) 07:46, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Bile rene As you were told in the decline message, the draft does not show that this person meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable singer, as shown with significant coverage in independent reliable sources. You've cited announcements of their work, which does not establish notability. Please see Your First Article. 331dot (talk) 07:51, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi 331dot,

I've unterstanding very well what you told. How do I done to publish this article?

We know that the matter is not to delete an article but to engage editors to best practices and help them to publish good articles.Bile rene (talk) 08:18, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Bile rene You need to gather independent reliable sources with significant coverage of this person, showing how they meet the special Wikipedia definition of a notable singer. The sources you have currently are just announcements, not significant coverage. Have you read Your First Article? As you are the one writing about the subject, we cannot do these things for you. Which aspect of the notability criteria does this person meet? 331dot (talk) 08:23, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

331dot for sources, I agree with you, but the guy is celebrity in his community and other countries as Cameroon where I'm.

The 11point is respected for notable singer on Wikipedia.Bile rene (talk) 10:46, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

The thing to understand, Bile rene, is that Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. If you cannot find sources that are independent of Wright, are reliably published, and contain significant coverage of him (all three of those conditions), then there is literally nothing which can go in an article about him, and no article will be accepted. "Being a celebrity" is not enough, unless people have written about him. --ColinFine (talk) 11:17, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for clarification.Bile rene (talk) 11:33, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Can I become extended and confirmed user

Hiii editor I wanna ask, I created Changdeva Temple article, tried to contribute in some articles. Is I'm now eligible to become a extended & confirmed user. And why no one still gave me barnstar so far, I'm kidding, if no one gave no problem. And I want to tell about my favourite sports, favourite sportsmans, about my favourite subject, favourite statesman, which is Abraham Lincoln in my talk page with colourful animation. Guide me to how to do that. Huge Earth (talk) 09:47, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@Huge Earth To get extended confirmed user rights, your account would need to be least 30 days old and has made at least 500 edits. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 09:56, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@Paper9oll: My account is 2 monts old and I did lods of edits. So can I become E&C user??? & You only gave half ans, my 2nd questions ans is not given so far.Huge Earth (talk) 10:09, 17 July 2021 (UT

@Huge Earth: According to XTools, you made 474 edits so far. Thats a lot, but not quite at the 500 requirement. Regarding Barnstars, I believe noone has considered giving you one so far. Its quite rare that you get one - my averge is about 1 per three months. Regarding the last thing, I do not believe it is possible to create animated content for talkpages (apart from .gif files) with wikitext. Victor Schmidt (talk) 10:28, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@Huge Earth: Currently, your account only met the 1st condition (at least 30 days old) but you have not fulfil the 2nd condition (at least 500 edits). And as mentioned by Victor above, you currently have made total of 474 edits hence you're still 26 edits away from fulfilling the 2nd condition. Once you fulfil the 2nd condition, the system will automatically give you the user rights in which you should receive notification from the system informing on it. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:49, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Creating a page in Wikipedia

How can I create a page for a public figure celebrity woman? Salekin62 (talk) 10:22, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

hi Salekin62 and welcome to the teahouse! please see WP:Your first article and WP:Notability (people). once you've done so you may now compile reliable sources to create your draft in say, User:Salekin62/Sandbox. happy editing!   melecie   t 10:25, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

See "Create a Wikipedia page for a pianist." (above) for advice to new editors who hope to create an article. David notMD (talk) 12:57, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Making an article public

Hello! I managed to move my article into Wikipedia's live space but it is not discoverable on Google. How can an article be found on Google? What are other further changes needed? Thank you! Sângeorzan Adrian (talk) 20:48, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Google indexing is not instantaneous. You need to declare your WP:COI. Regards, Ariconte (talk) 21:02, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Sângeorzan Adrian It was inadvisable for you to move the draft yourself; it failed one review at AFC. I strongly advise you to move it back for further work and an independent review. 331dot (talk) 21:08, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

An article is indexed by searchengines after it has been ok:d by a New Page Reviewer, or a certain time has passed, I think it was 90 days. Adrian Sangeorzan largely lacks inline citations, that's bad, especially for a WP:BLP, and you need to remove the WP:EL:s from the article text. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:12, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Actually, Sângeorzan Adrian never moved the draft to mainspace. It exists at Draft:Sangeorzan Adrian. Also, when instructed to remove external hyperlinks, removed refs - which I restored. DEclined once. Some sections have no references. David notMD (talk) 21:45, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

David notMD It's at Adrian Sangeorzan. 331dot (talk) 22:09, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you all so much. I will remove the external links. But how do I declare my WP:COI? And about the sections which have no references, what do I need to do about that? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sângeorzan Adrian (talk • contribs)

@Sângeorzan Adrian: You can declare your conflict of interest a couple of ways, all of which are listed here. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:34, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Draftified to Draft:Adrian Sangeorzan. However, Draft:Sangeorzan Adrian also exists (twice declined) with same content. David notMD (talk) 12:59, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Can be upgraded to a higher level of draft?

hello everyone!

I've been working on this page for a long time, creating improvements until I reached a really good result in my opinion.

Can I finally request to have it upgraded to a higher level of draft according to you? Nscent (talk) 13:03, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Nscent Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. There are not "levels" of drafts; you have resubmitted your draft and it is pending review to be formally placed in the encyclopedia as an article. Those are the only two possibilities. 331dot (talk) 13:22, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

331dot Hello 331dot, thanks for the reply, alright then I will wait for someone to evaluate it, I really hope this is the time to make it an article :) Nscent (talk) 13:27, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

You have not shown how they meet the criteria at WP:NARTIST and press releases are not suitably reliable sources. Theroadislong (talk) 13:39, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Need admin to create page for "Mach-Hommy"

Need admin to create page for "Mach-Hommy" Learningtakessteps (talk) 05:48, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Non-admins can also create pages. If you want to start it yourself, please read Your first article. If you would like to request that someone else make it, you can try Requested articles, though that tends to be slow. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:17, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@Tenryuu: Non-admins can't create Mach-Hommy directly, as the title has been salted. Non-admins can, however, create a draft. --David Biddulph (talk) 06:24, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@David Biddulph: Ah, thanks for letting me know. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:43, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@Learningtakesteps: - you can create a proto-article in your sandbox. When you think it's ready to be moved to mainspace, you can ask for assistance at the administrator's noticeboard. An admin will move the article into mainspace if it is in a fit condition to be moved, or if not they may give you feedback as to where improvement is needed. Mjroots (talk) 13:45, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Bulgars Article

Hello Editors,

 I have a concern about the Bulgars article for a long time now. It's been a debate on Wikipedia for a while also,and conclusions were made,which I believe it is not meeting with the real data and all sources around the world. I will point on the first sentence on the article which I believe is missleading. 

X = The Bulgars (also Bulghars, Bulgari, Bolgars, Bolghars, Bolgari,[1] Proto-Bulgarians[2]) were Turkic semi-nomadic warrior tribes that flourished in the Pontic–Caspian steppe and the Volga region during the 7th century. I find this first sentence on this article partially correct,by this means I want to say and point out that the Turkic origins of the Bulgaris,currently and since the begining of researching the Bulgars origins,this is the most common accepted theory,hypothesis of their origins. However it is not a fact. What I am trying to say is that the article begins as the origins are proven fact with evidence behind,which is not at this moment. Many historians,scholars and linguist have been debating and accepting common theories of their origins. The turkic one is one of the theories which is accepted,but we cannot disregard the others too as the Iranic theory. I would like to have that sentence edited to more neutral view,since right now it seems that the editors of the authors see the Turkic theory as a fact. Down below the article they have added the theories of other origins,however the sentence they began the article claims as the Bulgars were turkic. It seems its missunderstood. What I want to see is :

Y= The Bulgars (also Bulghars, Bulgari, Bolgars, Bolghars, Bolgari,[1] Proto-Bulgarians[2]) were semi-nomadic warrior tribes that flourished in the Pontic–Caspian steppe and the Volga region during the 7th century.The origins of the Bulgars is not yet fully understood,but they are many theories and hypothesis in existance about it.

At present, the main theories about the origins of the Bulgars are: (1) Turkic origins, (2) Sarmatian origins or Iranian, and (3) mixed, Turkic-Sarmatian origins. Many other theories have been put forward in the past, but have subsequently been shown unsupportable.

If u follow up from 2006 there are plenty of sources which of were taken in considartion taking in the origins and the history of the Bulgaris. In the present there is minority source of Bulgarian scholars or historians implemented into the article ,because simple the Wikipedia Editors on that artice find them Nationalistic point of view or anti-turkic propaganda.

I will really appreciate your time looking upon this request and take necessary actions to make that article less missleading for the public. Thank you!

Best Regards, Nikolay. SvetiNikolay (talk) 14:29, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

It appears you have requested at Talk:Bulgars a specific wording change. That is the proper place to present changes to this semi-protected article. Also appears that at times you are not signed in, so edits appear from IP:95.103.11.6. Please remember to always log in. David notMD (talk) 14:46, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Defamatory bio

https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/William_G._Jacoby 72.218.131.88 (talk) 14:35, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

100% agree. There was a neutral-worded version in July 2020, 'whitewashed' (all mention of sexual misconduct removed) in Nov 2020, subsequently changed to a defamatory version that went beyond NPOV. I restored the July 2020 version but kept one of the recent refs. David notMD (talk) 15:05, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Help with footnotes

I have written the text of my narrative in sandbox. I am now trying to enter my citations. I have read the directions on about how to enter a citation, but I wasn't able to follow or understand them. I need more detailed step by step guidance about how to enter a footnote. Orangecholo (talk) 14:59, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Orangecholo Check these guides:

WP:TUTORIAL

WP:REFBEGIN

User:Nick Moyes/Easier Referencing for Beginners Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:03, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

See List of civil engineers for examples of what articles on civil engineers do and do not contain. WAY too much of what you have drafted is unreferenced laudatory content. All that must be removed. David notMD (talk) 15:17, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

am an amateur

how to start and go on properly??? Zahinian (talk) 15:28, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Zahinian and welcome to the Teahouse. You can find a general introduction with useful links at Help:Getting started. Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 15:33, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@Zahinian: Welcome to the Teahouse. You may want to try this interactive tutorial. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:06, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Don't start every sentence with a date

Hi folks. There's a guideline, policy or essay on writing style that I can't find which essentially states: "don't start every sentence with a date" ("on 1 January 2021…", "on 4 January…" etc.). I've been doing web searches with different search terms but to no avail. Does anyone have an idea where I could find it? Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 16:25, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Duh, I searched for ages and now that I posted here, I found it near instantly: WP:PROSELINE. Nevermind. :-) Robby.is.on (talk) 16:29, 17 July 2021 (UTC)