Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 August 23

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August 23

Geneology of Arthur T. Vanderbilt II

The question on genealogy can be answered separate from attributing unsourced claims about the subject's psychology in the question; see WP:BLP
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I just finished reading his book, "Fortune's Children", a scathing account of the Vanderbilt family from Cornelius on down. I know that he is a practicing attorney in NJ and a published author, but I'd love to know from which family line he descended and what made him so bitter toward his ancestors. I've checked everywhere, but can't find him or his father in any of the family trees. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.76.3.102 (talk) 16:02, 23 August 2013 (UTC) We have no source saying this person is bitter. See WP:BLP. μηδείς (talk) 05:07, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Our Vanderbilt family article has a Vanderbilt family tree (of sorts) - but all we know is that this guy (let's call him "Arthur II" for short) is "a distant cousin". We have an article about the prominent Chief Justice Arthur T. Vanderbilt (let's call him "Arthur I") - and according to Amazon's review of "Fortune's Children", Arthur I was the Arthur II's grandfather. Arthur II's book "Changing Law a Biography of Arthur T Vanderbilt" would be a good place to look because it would presumably describe Arthur I's family tree. All I could find was that Arthur I married Florence J. Althen of Newark in 1914. They had three daughters and twin sons.

Arthur I was son of Lewis Vanderbilt and Alice Leach. Sadly, neither of those figure in the family tree of our Vanderbilt family article either...so "distant" is a good word for Arthur II's relationship to the main Vanderbilt line.

rootsweb.ancestry.com lets us track back through the family tree: Lewis Vanderbilt was a telegraph operator - so I'm guessing that he certainly didn't inherit much of the family fortune - and Arthur I evidently got where he did through hard work and having a genius-level legal mind. Arthur I's father was Levi Vanderbilt (also not in the main family tree) and his father was William P Vanderbilt (still no connection), and his father was John Vanderbilt (nope, not here either). John died before the uber-famous Cornelius was born, John's father was another John and his father was Jeremyas Vanderbilt - and HIS father (Aris Janse Vanderbilt) was son to a Dutch immigrant Jan Aertsen Van Der Bilt (from the city of "Bilt")...so Arthur II's family line does not seem to intersect with any of the famously powerful and wealthy Vanderbilts.

Jan Aertsen was the great-great-grandfather of Cornelius - one of his sons was the ancestor of Cornelius and all of the more famous Vanderbilts - the other was the ancestor of Arthur II - and that's the last relation they have in common...so yeah..."distant" cousin hardly covers it! SteveBaker (talk) 20:32, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Sourcing Movie Reviews on Wikipedia

Hi, question: Can I use "RottenTomatoes" and "MRQE" as reliable sources for articles here? Like if I wanted to write a section on how a movie was critically received? Thanks. Herzlicheboy (talk) 17:38, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

RottenTomatoes and MetaCritic are cited on nearly every movie review, but only their aggragation of professional critics' ratings. I've never seen MRQE cited and I'm not familiar with the site (which I can't access right now). If it creates an aggregate rating, then I would say it's only reliable if all the sources it uses for its aggregate rating are themselves reliable sources. It is not mentionned in the list of reliable sources for Wikiproject Films. IMDB is considered a questionable source on that same page. Effovex (talk) 19:08, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the heads and and the links. I also found this: Wikipedia:Rotten_Tomatoes_and_Metacritic which is good info for film articles editing here. Also, MRQE was way more popular during my youth, back in the days of the "old internets" like late 90's to early 2000's, back before Rotten Tomatoes really got popular.Herzlicheboy (talk) 19:22, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Big brother is jealous

I don't know if you can answer this here but... I shall ask anyways, you can close this if it doesn't apply to the rules. What's the right way to deal with a boy who is jealous of his newborn little twin sisters. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 19:23, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

That should be "newborn little twin sisters". μηδείς (talk) 02:15, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Medeis :) Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 13:11, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Sibling rivalry has a section Sibling_rivalry#Prevention which seems to be a good starting point. There are five references linked from that section that should be your next port of call. SteveBaker (talk) 19:29, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I particularly agree with "give each child individual attention". In your case, one parent can watch the twins while the other spends time with the big brother, preferably at a different location. This prevents the parent with the son from having their attention diverted away by the twins, angering the son. And the parent with the son shouldn't even mention the twins, unless the son brings them up first. StuRat (talk) 20:28, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

But StuRat, couldn't the girls reject the parent who doesn't spend much time with them in the future? Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 13:11, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Alternate. StuRat (talk) 14:55, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks :) Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 15:01, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Of course, a breast-feeding mother may need to spend more time with the babies, but could try to spend time with the older kid when the babies are asleep. StuRat (talk) 01:26, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

StuRat, all the rushing around for the birth (I mean, when the mother is going to have the babies and they have to go to the hospital and everyones is looking after the mother) might leave the boy feeling excluded. Is there any way to prevent this? Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 17:47, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

When my wife and I went to the hospital for our second child, we had her mom come pick up the older brother. He got a fun day with grandma, and it kept grandma busy so she wasn't in the waiting room constantly bothering us for updates. Jessica Ryan (talk) 18:27, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Jessica but, what about if the dad's parents are both death and the mom's parents live far away from the couple? Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 19:49, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Aunts, uncles, family friends (of the kids) ? StuRat (talk) 01:27, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

StuRat No aunts or uncles on the mother's side and an uncle living in other continent on the father's side. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 12:25, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, it is a good idea to have someone there who can watch him no matter what - you can't have a kid running around in the delivery room while mom and dad are obviously a bit distracted. :-) I don't really know how people normally handle that aspect of things. Usually parents have things arranged with nearby friends or families so that they know there will be someone available at a moment's notice when labor starts, but from what you've mentioned of your novel, I understand that their plans were changed pretty significantly at the last minute. :-) Jessica Ryan (talk) 13:50, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Jessica, is it ok to leave your kids with a friend? Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 14:02, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Yep, as long as they're someone you know and trust and that your kid is familiar with. It's normal for friends with kids to exchange babysitting services with each other on a pretty regular basis. The kids get a playdate with their friends, and the parents get a more flexible schedule for working or just to get out of the house and have a date. Or, in this case, to go have another kid. Jessica Ryan (talk) 14:05, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for so many questions, Jess but I've never been involved in a birth, just mine lol. So, how many days the mother has to be at the hospital and when does the kid can come to visit his new sisters? Isn't twins born at the 8th month? When should the mother go to the hospital? Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 14:41, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Twins can go full term, but are somewhat more likely to be born prematurely. As for how long the mother stays in the hospital, that varies widely. A mother who has given birth before, without complications, and has no complications this time, could in theory go home the same day, although most hospitals will want to keep them at least overnight. The boy could "visit" any time, but that might consist of looking at the babies through a window, if the hospital doesn't want the liability from the son sneezing on them and getting them sick, etc. StuRat (talk) 04:28, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

StuRat's response sounds about right. Depending on the situation the doctors may want to keep the twins in the NICU for a day or two for observation, especially if they are a bit premature. Labor times vary widely - a few hours to a few days. Our first son was early and needed surgery, but the hospital had no problem letting people visit him in the NICU. They had to use an automated hand washer before visiting, and only we were allowed to hold him at first. With our second things were a lot more normal, and people (and big brother) were allowed to visit, touch and hold him as soon as he was cleaned up. I understand that the hospital birth experience can vary quite a bit between countries, so you might want to find someone with references or experience for the country the scene will be happening in. Jessica Ryan (talk) 11:45, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Oh, Jess the twins are born in the USA, New York. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 12:13, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Another approach is to get the boy more involved in the babies. For example, he could give one of them a bottle or spoon feed a baby. A little sibling bonding should hopefully result. But don't force him, only say he can if he wants to. StuRat (talk) 01:31, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Is it true that boys get more jealous if they have brothers instead of sisters? Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 19:38, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I don't think it makes much difference when they are babies, but when older it could come up, say if one boy is better at sports, with girls, etc., than the other. That is, two boys are likely to compete over more areas than a boy and a girl. StuRat (talk) 20:30, 23 August 2013 (UTC)