Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 April 18

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April 18

Mansion in Blairsville, PA

I live in Indiana County, PA. Southern Indiana county borders with Westmoreland County PA near the town of Blairsville. Just 3 miles south of Blairsville there are the remains of an old stone mansion, a small cottage a detached garage with living quarters on second floor and the remains of agood sized in-ground swimming pool. I have been told by many elderly residents that the mansion was built by The Graff family. I find information regarding that family, however , I find nothing on the mansion. Could you direct me to a site or page? If, thank you in advance. Ron McLean71.206.244.165 (talk) 00:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

You might want to use google maps to get an address for us and let us know. μηδείς (talk) 01:33, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Houses owned by John Graff House: 195 South Liberty Street and Alexander Graff House: 216 South Liberty Street are part of Blairsville's Underground Railroad tour [1]. There is also a Graff Insurance Agency in that town. Rmhermen (talk) 14:39, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Those appear to be in the town, though, Rmhermen. I think the mansion the OP is referring to is the one "off Route 217 between Brenizer and Hillside" mentioned in the newspaper article about some teenage mischief here. That puts it about three miles south of the town, as the OP states. (I can't be sure, but the Bing aerial view at 40.3826°N 79.2616°W / 40.3826; -79.2616 shows what appears to be a ruined structure that may be the building in question.) Deor (talk) 15:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

You are referring to the old Torrance State Hospital I believe? I live next door to the Graff houses mentioned in the above posts and they are indeed in town. The Torrance State Hospital building is privately owned, in disrepair perhaps 1 mile south of Blairsville off of Route 217 on Torrance Rd. you will pass barns and see the current Torrance State Hospital coming up on left. The building I believe you are referring to is on the right, on the corner heading to the town f Torrance. Hope this helps....

Ok, now I was thinking more... Go south on 217 through Blairsville...into Derry Township, westmoreland county. Go past Grey Station Road, there is a gated old Road on the left.... No access. It is back there. This will also be in the area of Pack Saddle. I believe it is also privately owned, no public access I have not personally been there, but just asked someone who would know and she confirmed there is in fact a mansion that has had fire damage in recent years..

5 hours at Oslo Airport

Today I got a call from my travel agency that there has been a change in my return flight from Munich via Oslo to Helsinki. There is now 5 hours time between the flights to and from Oslo. What can I do in that time? Is it enough to go outside the airport and actually explore Oslo? Actually, even if you extend the Nordic countries to also include the Baltic states, Oslo is one of the two capitals I have never visited, the other is Vilnius. JIP | Talk 18:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

(Oslo Gardermoen, I assume?) Well, you might be slightly tight on time, but it certainly seems feasible, assuming you're arriving during the daytime. Flytoget will get you in to Oslo Central Station within half an hour. From there you can pick up any number of public transport options from Jernbanetorget (station). For instance, Tram no. 12 will take you to Frogner Park in 15 minutes (get off at Vigelandsparken), or you could simply take a brisk walk up Karl Johans gate towards Slottsparken. Personally, I'd recommend the latter to give you the best 'flavour of Oslo' within a short period of time, but then again I didn't get to go to Frogner Park and I hear it's rather nice.

Journey planning on the pubic public transport can be done at ruter.no - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:17, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

PS: You might like to give the guys over at the Wikivoyage Tourist Office a shot at answering this. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:21, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I think you meant public transport, Mike. 19:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Just a Freudian slit. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 21:05, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Keep in mind that if you leave the airport, you'll have to do the whole check-in and security screening again, which will eat an hour or more if it's busy. As much as I would like you to explore the town I grew up in, I'm not sure just how much you would see in such short time - but my recommendation would be Akershus Fortress winch is both pretty, interesting and within walking distance of the main railway station. WegianWarrior (talk) 20:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Bondage question

I was today at a bondage workshop and I was trying to tie up a rather long-haired woman. The only problem was that her hair got in the way of the rope. I didn't want to tie her hair up to cause her unnecessary pain, so I had no option but to touch her hair to move it away, which I felt very awkward and would have avoided it if I could. She couldn't very well move it away herself as I had tied her hands up. When a woman is tying me up, there is no problem, because my hair is short. Is there anything that can be done to help this, other than having women cut their hair short too? JIP | Talk 19:31, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Allow talking in the workshops? Itsmejudith (talk) 19:55, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I did talk to her, saying I had to move her hair away, but I still felt awkward about it. So far she hasn't seemed to have a problem about it. JIP | Talk 20:01, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Flip her upside down as required to angle her hair out of the way. ¦ Reisio (talk) 21:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

• Switch to the origami workshop. The angles one has to consider there don't invoke the same sort of awkwardness. Never-the-less... origami can still challenge your most wild intellectual creativeness and determination to bend the material to your will. --Aspro (talk) 21:46, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Make a hairbrush part of the game playing. It has multiple uses, one of which involves moving hair around. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 22:09, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Also, with origami, one does not need safewords... So one does not have to bother with pointless dialogues such as: Master: You will be come my paper crane. 'Slave:' No. I wont! Master: 'Why not my lovely? 'Slave:' Because your folding plans are for thin Japanese rice paper and your trying to fold me out of 100 gsm Conqueror Laid Business Paper... 'Master: 'Enough of your stubbornest and clever logic... onto the fire with you! 'Slave:' Buuuutttt (safe phrase comes in here....) George-Bush-was-brilliant-and-the-savour-of-all-mankind!
Instead: Be like Gaff. Leave little origami Unicorn figures (or whatever other triggers you can think off ) around, to freak out the replicants. Tying knots is just for Boy Scouts. --Aspro (talk) 22:47, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Not hardly. When you're looking for adventure of a new and different kind/and you happen to meet a Girl Scout who is similarly inclined/Don't be nervous, don't be flustered, don't be scared! Be prepared! --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 23:11, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

• Um, no judgment, but if you are going to workshops, surely you are aware that there are dedicated fora for this type of thing? That will probably give you better (and more serious) answers? Or perhaps the point of this workshop is to discuss such matters with sympathetic people? It also seems weird to me that you are comfortable enough to tie someone up (presumably requiring lots of touching), but uncomfortable touching/moving hair...

--Anyway, if you are competent with fancy hitches, lashings, bends and so on, surely you could apply a simple braid or plait, no? That's one easy way to keep hair out of the way. One could also ask a long-haired partner to put their hair up before the rope comes out. Finally, there are all sorts of ways to tie hair that are not painful at all (meaning your intent is to tie the hair, not getting caught in other ropes). Just google 'hair tie bondage', you'll get plenty of good links, and even some helpful youtube tutorials. SemanticMantis (talk) 23:51, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Actually, at least with my case, there was very little touching involved. I felt very awkward touching her at all, and tried to do it as little as possible. JIP | Talk 05:32, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I would switch to bestiality; animals rarely have long hair, and, as an added benefit, many have bones in their penises. μηδείς (talk) 02:55, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

You might. But many, perhaps most, people prefer their sex to be between consenting adult humans. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 03:57, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

So I assume the consent part means corpses are out? Or would it be okay with the consent of the next of kin? μηδείς (talk) 17:24, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

If you have nothing constructive whatsoever to add, you're better off on Twitter or Facebook, Meds. This "advice" is puerile and not really adding anything appropriate to this discussion. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:55, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

What about stuffing her hair down her throat ? Would also prevent shrieks, but of course tap out one orifice ....Interesting problem, am going to think about it with my wife during next siesta (here it is noon) . Thanks anyway Arapaima (talk) 10:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Like a lot of advice being offered here, this is incredibly dangerous as well as highly impractical. Please for heaven's sake do not do this.

To the OP: You really need to be negotiating this kind of question before the scene starts. Unless you are planning a hair tie, which needs planning and arguably training to do safely, your companion ought to tie their own hair up in a suitable fashion beforehand if it's going to be a problem. AlexTiefling (talk) 10:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

• Either we are giving random advice here in contradiction to the rules, in which case you need to chill, or this entire thread needs hatting. I'll leave that to others to decide. μηδείς (talk) 19:12, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
  • You seem to be in auto-contradiction mode Meds, just chillax and either stop using Wikipedia as Twitter or start contributing to these discussion in a constructive manner, rather expressing some odd ideas over having sex with animals. Keep that private please, this is an encyclopedia. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:41, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I detest all the sexual implications here. This is about bondage, pure and simple. I and this woman are not in any kind of romantic and/or sexual relationship. JIP | Talk 20:28, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

So just what the h..l ARE you doing?85.211.192.200 (talk) 21:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't see why you're afraid to touch her hair. Are you afraid you will be suspended ? :-) StuRat (talk) 21:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

It's precisely because we're not in a relationship that I'm afraid (well, perhaps "afraid" is too strong a word) to touch her. I don't want to come across like I'm harassing her during the bondage. JIP | Talk 16:30, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

LOL ironically!!85.211.192.200 (talk) 07:14, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Environmentally friendly sushi?

If a person really likes sushi and wants to prevent extinction of animals due to human overconsumption, then is it possible to try environmentally friendly sushi? Maybe the two choices are artificial crabmeat sushi and vegetarian sushi. They are cheaper than raw fish sushi too, and maybe more environmentally friendly? Sneazy (talk) 21:41, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, "artificial crabmeat" -- surumi -- is made up of pretty much anything white that can be rendered flavorless and then artificially flavored. So it might or might not be involved in species overconsumption. Anyway, this seems useful. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 21:49, 18 April 2013 (UTC)e

I'd say pretty much the same thing. Unless you know what the artificial crab meat really is, you (and the rest of us) can make no judgement as to its soundness as an environmentally friendly food. Vegetables are a much more environmentally sound source but again, the growing of some of them involves inappropriate agricultural practices, such as old growth forest clearing. Find out more details. HiLo48 (talk) 21:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

It is a mistake to assume that eating fish is inherently unsustainable/ will result in extinction. There are plenty of fish that are/can be sustainably harvested (there are also some that should be avoided if one cares about sustainability). For instance, tuna (depending on where/how it is harvested), gets the seal of approval from the Monterey Bay Aquarium (a highly reliable source), see here [2]. Their site even has a handy pocket list and smartphone app describing the "best" fish to buy. Sadly, there are no easy answers, and products don't always declare their provenance. However, the good news is, if you are willing to do some research, there are many options for sustainable and ethical sushi making that include real, tasty, wild-caught fish! SemanticMantis (talk) 23:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

This topic is inspired by the Wikipedia article entry on the bluefin tuna that is hunted to extinction in the sushi business. Poor fishes! 65.24.105.132 (talk) 00:06, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that is why I said that some species should be avoided if one values sustainability (or, now that I think of it, biodiversity). Note that bluefin tuna is a disambiguation page. Thunnus maccoyii is a "bluefin tuna" that is listed as critically endangered, while Thunnus orientalis is listed as Least Concern. Lesson learned: scientific binomial nomenclature is vastly preferable for research purposes, and some tuna are currently sustainably harvested with no risk to the viability of the wild population. SemanticMantis (talk) 01:10, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I was going to say what SemanticMantis did... "bluefin tuna" is ambiguous. Even within those varieties, the taxonomical designation and the grocery store designation might differ too. Not to mention all the reference to recent news reports of mislabeled fish. Fish doesn't have to be unsustainable. There are some though that seem to put pressure on fishstocks. Shadowjams (talk) 05:54, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

The problem with that from a consumer perspective is that fish is rarely sold under its binomial nomenclature. Worse yet, fish is slightly notorious for being routinely mislabeled. ("One In Three Fish Sold At Restaurants And Grocery Stores Is Mislabeled" [3]; Survey Finds That Fish Are Often Not What Label Says [4]). I believe that most sustainability metrics (like the Monterey Bay Aquarium one) take this fact into account, not listing names of otherwise sustainable fish if unsustainable ones are likely to be sold under the sustainable name. -- 205.175.124.30 (talk) 01:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Farm raised fish should prevent extinction, but could cause other environmental problems, say if defective fish are released to mix with the wild population. StuRat (talk) 04:12, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Ask the restaurant if they have fish certified by the Marine Stewardship Council, and/or sourced from inshore fishing. Surprised that we have no article on inshore fishing; it is when boats go out near the coast for no more than 24 hours and the catch is sold fresh at the port. Itsmejudith (talk) 06:50, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Landline phone ringtone

(USA please) Are there any telephones for use on a landline that allow you to select your own ringtone, just as a cell phone does? Thank you.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 23:06, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

There are probably some that allow you to select from a small number of built-in ring-tones, by flipping a toggle switch. However, I doubt if any allow you to download ringtones. That would be an odd combo of old technology and new, something like a video phone with a rotary dial (which I did see in an old Outer Limits episode). StuRat (talk) 02:19, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

The local Bells in the US offer what is called a distinctive ring service where you are assigned more than one telephone number per line, and the phone will ring with different ring patterns (e.g., two short rings instead of one normal long one) when people call your second number. If you simply mean how the phone itself rings, that is a matter of the hardware. μηδείς (talk) 02:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

There's an app for that. RNealK (talk) 20:20, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

As Medeis says, it comes down to hardware. I don't know if there exist conventional landline phones which allow you to download arbitrary ringtones, but this Gizmodo column from all the way back in 2006 describes an external hardware solution to this 'problem'. It's a device that plugs into any landline telephone jack, and plays an arbitrary sound (the mp3 file of your choice, transferred from your computer via the supplied USB cable) when a ring signal comes over the landline. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

The issue with land lines is that the cadence of the ring is generated by the telephone exchange - not by your phone. That's a stupid thing to do - but it's how the horribly old-fashioned land-line phone system works.

In a cellphone, the network sends a digital signal to your phone saying "you are being called" - and your phone retrieves the appropriate sound file and plays it. It's completely trivial to replace that file with a different one. In land line phones, the telephone exchange sends a specific high voltage (I think it's 40 volts) to the phone to "make the bell ring" - and it pulses that voltage on and off in the characteristic "Ring-ring (pause) Ring-ring (pause)" pattern. Older phones simply used that voltage to drive some kind of oscillator to make a noise - and the really old phones just connected the signal to an electromagnet to move the bell clanger! The critical problem is that the phone doesn't "know" that it's being called. The phone company does things like sending a very short 40 volt pulse to test the line periodically - and also to make that horrible noise when you forget to hang up the handset.

When the 40 volt signal "goes away", the phone doesn't know whether it's just a pause in the "ring-ring (pause) ring-ring" cadence - or whether the person at the other end hung up...so there would have to be a couple of seconds pause between the call being abandoned and the phone being reasonably certain that it was and shutting off the music. With a musical ringtone on a landline phone, you'd often pick up the call only to find that the person at the other end had hung up...which is annoying and yet completely unavoidable.

So it's relative easy for them to make the phone "chirp" or "ring" with that same cadence pattern that the telephone exchange uses - but to play a piece of music isn't so simple. When the phone company used to offer different ring cadences - they actually had the telephone exchange generate the alternative cadence pattern. The phone didn't know that there was anything special going on.

Another problem is that landline phones don't generally have a digital connection anywhere - so downloading a music file to play wouldn't be a simple thing to do. The few phones that do have alternative ring sounds typically come with a small selection of them that you can't easily change.

Worst of all, sales of landline phones are in steep decline - very few people are buying them because we're all switching to cell phones instead. That means that the people designing these things have no incentive to innovate and to come up with clever ways to circumvent this problem.

It continually annoys me that you can't send or receive text messages on landline phones - but it's the same basic problem.

SteveBaker (talk) 16:02, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Old technology isn't some sort of bad 'magic' that people are forced to use for no good reason--it is good design based on the real physical constraints of available technology. Old rotary phones--which children can take apart and reassemble--actually have bells inside, not computer chips, and it's no more "stupid" that they ring because of the analog electronic pulse than it is stupid that you can't access hyperlinks from the pages of books on the shelf at the library. You may wish you could text from land lines and I may wish I could use my leaf-blower to fly to Boston. But it ain't gonna happen. μηδείς (talk) 17:22, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

RE: "Worst of all, sales of landline phones are in steep decline - very few people are buying them because we're all switching to cell phones instead. That means that the people designing these things have no incentive to innovate and to come up with clever ways to circumvent this problem." I think the reason sales are in step decline is that they aren't adding needed innovations to them. I, for one, plan to continue using a land-line, when at home. They are more reliable, don't need batteries charged/replaced, and are far more comfortable to use. If I could use them to text, I would. The government does, however, need to fix the price structure, where all sorts of regulatory fees and taxes are applied to land-lines that don't apply to cell phones, at least in the US.

Note that old technologies aren't necessarily completely obsolete. An example is newspapers, which still exist after having been superseded by radio, movie news reels, TV news, and now internet news. StuRat (talk) 20:05, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, newspapers are also in steep decline. But it's not just the cellphone that's killing land-line phones. Internet telephony is growing to fill that "home phone" niche. At the apartment complex I'm living in, you can't get a traditional phone line...all you can get is telephone service from the cable-tv/internet company...and if you're going to do that, you might as well buy internet service instead and use Skype or Magic-Jack or something. SteveBaker (talk) 23:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

And newspapers also declined after those other technological advances, but didn't go away. I suspect the same will be true of land lines. Add to those other advantages that you can't lose a corded land-line and it's unlikely to be stolen, and is more flexible in terms of adding answering machines, etc. StuRat (talk) 00:09, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh - come on! That's ridiculous. The only things you might add to your phone line are:

• Answering machine - obsoleted by standard "voice mail" features in mobile phones - and/or things like Google Voice - even when I had a landline phone, I got free voice mail from AT&T without a physical answering machine.
• Fax machine - obsoleted by email with MIME attachments and digital scanners built into most printers.
• Modem - obsoleted by broadband internet connections, WiFi and cellular modems.
• More phones - obsoleted by having a phone that's not nailed to the wall, by the easy possibility to have one phone for every person in the house and by the ability to do conference calls for free using Skype or whatever.

Sure, your land line phone isn't going to be stolen - but neither would your cellphone if you left it at home! If you really want to prevent yourself from losing your cellphone by attaching it to the wall with a cable - then just leave it hooked up to it's charger all the time and you'll never lose it.

So, not one of your "advantages" are in fact advantages at all.

Not all newspapers have yet disappeared - but more and more of them are going away with each passing year. Check out Future of newspapers for the whole sad story. SteveBaker (talk) 02:54, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

• Voice mail feature on cell phones sucks. You have to burn minutes to get your message from some damn telemarketer, can't get it at all when signal or battery is weak, etc. Some plans also charge you every month for this.
• Extra cell phones typically cost lots more money each month. Not so with land-lines, provided you share a line.
• There are also call screening machines that can be hooked up to land-lines, but not cell phones.
• And, of course, you could leave your cell phone plugged into the same wall all the time to keep it charged and keep from losing it, but then you would lose it's main advantage, wouldn't you ? And you'd still have the disadvantages of a battery that eventually can't hold much charge, being uncomfortable to use, etc.
• I never get "no signal" on my land-line, even in the basement !
• I often lose my cell phone down in the couch or something, and have to call it from my land-line to find it.

I'm not saying land-lines are better than cell phones, just that they both have relative advantages. So, I don't see land-lines going away completely. StuRat (talk) 19:56, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

@ Steve, re your "It continually annoys me that you can't send or receive text messages on landline phones" - I don't understand why you would have such an expectation, knowing full well that its certain fate is to be dashed. You may as well be annoyed that a horse and carriage doesn't have cruise control, a Bluetooth connection or power steering. Or be annoyed that you can't access the internet on your old typewriter. Or that your grandfather clock in the hallway that you bought at the antique shop doesn't have a digital readout. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 02:30, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Just a note that you can receive texts on landline phones. It's known as "TXT to Landline"[5].--Auric talk 02:43, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

One advantage to the land line over the cell phone is that when the power goes out all across town the land line still works. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 05:11, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Sadly less useful as an advantage than it used to be - I don't have any stats for the number of cordless phones around, but they're pretty widespread and I wouldn't be surprised if a third or a half of the houses with landlines now only have a cordless unit, which of course relies on mains electricity to run. (Does anyone build them with short-term batteries in the base station, I wonder? As an emergency backup, it might seem an interesting selling point.) Andrew Gray (talk) 16:44, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, which is why we have one old style phone that isn't dependant on the power. At work we have Internet but our weather reports are sent by land line at 300 baud. Slow but it works even when the power is out and the Internet quits. The same goes for the fax machine that we use to receive weather packages. So no the land line and fax are not obsolete yet. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 19:28, 20 April 2013 (UTC)