Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2024 March 13

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March 13

Not to change the subject ...

Some people are having a conversation. One of them says, "Not to change the subject, but ..." and proceeds to veer off at a tangent only marginally, if at all, related to what they were discussing. In other words, they have done exactly what they said they wouldn't do, change the subject.

Is there a term for this locutionary device of the speaker denying what they know they're about to do? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 10:44, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

The most common example is the phrase "not to mention X", which of course means that you're mentioning X. That's apophasis. Your example could also be considered apophasis, in a more complicated way. AnonMoos (talk) 13:08, 13 March 2024 (UTC).

Out of the same stable as I’m not being funny (but). Google couldn't find me a technical term. Alansplodge (talk) 14:56, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Humor is subjective. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 13:27, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

There ought to be a category "famous first words", which could also include "I'll keep it short."  --Lambiam 09:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Like when Hitler gets up on a podium and starts with "Unaccustomed as I am to public speaking ...". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:36, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

"False disclaimer"? Although I'd say that your example most often occurs unintentionally, so doesn't fit your question. Mathglot (talk) 06:46, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Translation?

In the article V. K. Pandian, an editor keeps adding ପାଣ୍ଡୁ to the "other names" section. Google translates this as "Pandu", but I still can't tell if that's an actual "other name," a slur, a silly nickname... Does someone here know the language well enough to determine if that's an appropriate addition or if it should be removed? Joyous! Noise! 16:04, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

The term does not occur on his page in the Oriya Wikipedia, so it is probably not notable.  --Lambiam 22:08, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Do you have in mind any simple example of a useful English word, being both a noun and an adjective and a verb?

I know there are loads of examples, but I'm looking for a useful one in daily life. HOTmag (talk) 18:30, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Set is one of the simplest ones I can think of, since it has so many meanings you can choose from. "If you want someone to choose from a definitive list of options, you must set a set set." GalacticShoe (talk) 18:46, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Side note, my favorite obscure noun-verb-adjective is circular, which in addition to its well-known adjectival meaning, also has a noun meaning as "an advertisement, directive or notice intended for mass circulation", and a verb meaning as "to distribute a circular to/at someone." If you give someone a round advertisement, you have circulared a circular circular. GalacticShoe (talk) 18:49, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

@GalacticShoe Five main dictionaries [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] don't list that as a verb. In my version of English, the verb is "circulate". Bazza 7 (talk) 19:03, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Wiktionary does give examples which show that it is distinct from circulate (e.g. "I was circulared by a company looking to expand its consumer base" wouldn't make sense if one were to replace it with "circulated"), but it might be a case where most dictionaries consider that more as if one is verbing the noun. GalacticShoe (talk) 19:24, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Yet another semi-obscure noun-verb-adjective is brag, which, in addition to its standard verb and noun meanings, has an adjectival meaning of "excellent; first-rate" (and apparently, an obsolete adverbial meaning of "proudly, boastfully" too.) GalacticShoe (talk) 08:16, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

@HOTmag: How about wikt:light...? CiaPan (talk) 18:59, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

The second reply above perhaps inadvertently gives one at the start: "side". I can have "a pain in my side". You could "take the side piece" of a cake. And you can "side up to" someone. It's a little like "set" but perhaps more specific as each meaning is to do with the side, so in some sense not central/not direct.--2A04:4A43:900F:F579:EDA2:B2C5:3E76:8DD7 (talk) 19:38, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Isn't "side" in "side piece" a noun adjunct? You can't say that one piece of cake is "less side" than another, which is "very side", or that it will "become side" if you slice of the piece that now "is side", by you slicing the cake "sidely".  --Lambiam 21:30, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Possibly , but reading that (I was not familiar with it before) a noun adjunct seems more applicable to things like "chicken soup", where both chicken and soup are recognisable, distinct entities, and chicken in similar phrases ("chicken pie", "chicken sandwich") is the same thing, possibly even the same bird. But "side slice", or "side door", or "side profile", the "side" isn't something that exists separate of the thing it's modifying, and is different in each case. Also when you use "side" as a noun – "my side hurts!" – that seems likely to have come from the descriptive use, shortened e.g. from something like "the left side of my body hurts!". I.e. it's not a noun being used as an adjective, more like an adjective used as a noun. --2A04:4A43:900F:F579:EDA2:B2C5:3E76:8DD7 (talk) 22:04, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Funny enough, "chicken" is also a noun, verb (Wiktionary has it as a shortening of "chicken out"), and adjective. GalacticShoe (talk) 22:11, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Cognates in other Germanic languages (Danish & Norwegian side, Dutch zijde, German Seite, Swedish sida) are unambiguously nouns and not adjectives.  --Lambiam 22:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Another test is where the stress is. In noun phrases formed with an attributive adjective modifying a noun ("nice dress", "happy hour", "sloppy job"), the stress is normally on the head (the noun). In English noun–noun compounds ("ice cream", "coal mine", "beer bottle") the stress is on the modifier (the first of the two nouns).  --Lambiam 23:04, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

contact – list of contacts; contact sheet; contact my lawyer.

record – a new record; in record time; record a new song.

verb – it's a verb; verb phrase; easy to verb a noun.

Mathglot (talk) 06:43, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

None of those are adjectives, just noun adjuncts:

• *This sheet is contact.
• *This time is record.
• *This phrase is verb.

Nardog (talk) 06:52, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

My go-to example is iron. And a useful one in daily life, as required: shit.  Card Zero  (talk) 10:14, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Questions again

1. Are there any adjectives in English that start with "vowel Y"?
2. Is there any Romance language where name of the letter Y is simply y and not "Greek I" or ye?
3. Are there any words in French with semivowel + vowel combinations /ji/, /jy/, /wu/, /wy/, /ɥu/ or /ɥy/?
4. Are there any words in Spanish with diphthongs /ji/ and /wu/? Fore example, nuucuna would be pronounced as /nwukuna/ and siipito as /sjipito/?
5. Are there any words in Finnish where primary stress is not on the first syllable?

--40bus (talk) 21:20, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

1. yclept; ypsiliform; ypsiloid; ytterbic; yttric; yttriferous; yttrious.  --Lambiam 21:31, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

3. bouillir.  --Lambiam 21:46, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

As for 2, if something wasn't added on, then the names of the letters "I" and "Y" would be homophonous... AnonMoos (talk) 22:16, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

In Italian they are even homoglyphs.  --Lambiam 10:54, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Isn't that rather due to orthography? 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 01:03, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Small fontsize → joke.  --Lambiam 09:06, 15 March 2024 (UTC)