Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 October 21

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October 21

"He and ... all other ... is".

This question is something to do with conjunctions, or clauses, but I'm unsure how to look it up. Here's an example quote (from Richard Dawkins, talking about a boa constrictor): "what an extraordinarily complicated structure he and all other living things is". Here we have a singular noun "structure" joined by "and" to the plural noun "things". Should the verb therefore be "is" or "are"? I think I intuitively make it agree with the last thing mentioned, but sometimes I've hesitated about this.  Card Zero  (talk) 22:28, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Feels wrong as it is; it should be "are". The subject is "he and all other living things", which clearly refers to more than one. But there are alternatives: "what an extraordinarily complicated structure he is, along with all other living things", or, "what extraordinarily complicated structures he and all other living things are". Andreas JN466 22:52, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

I think "is" would be tolerable if the plural part was made parenthetical: "what an extraordinarily complicated structure he (and all other living things) is". But as it stands, wrong. --174.95.81.219 (talk) 05:52, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

(ec) I would certainly use "he and all other living things are" in that construction. It sounds as though Dawkins was confusing the simple "A and B are" compound-subject construction with the singular-subject-separated-from-the-verb-by-a-parenthetical-expression construction, such as "A, as well as B, is" (on which see this previous ref-desk thread, and this one for some disagreement). Deor (talk) 23:22, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

By the way, "make the verb agree with the last thing mentioned" is an often-used guideline for compound subjects joined by or—"A or B are" if A is singular and B is plural, "A or B is" if A is plural and B is singular (or, obviously, if both are singular). Deor (talk) 23:30, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

So should one then write "unaccompanied children or their guardian does not need to request legal assistance"? Sounds wrong to me.  --Lambiam 09:03, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

I think that example is pretty awkward whether one chooses does or do. (The problem could be obviated by using plural "guardians"—"unaccompanied children or their guardians do not need to request legal assistance".) For style-manual advice on the general question, see my second response in this thread. Deor (talk) 13:26, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for coming up with this very awkward example. :)  Card Zero  (talk) 17:10, 23 October 2022 (UTC)