Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2013 August 16

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August 16

Swedish Language = Easy to learn?

Is the Swedish Language easy to learn for the English speaker? What difficulties may the learner experience? --Meltdowenn (talk) 10:28, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

For an English speaker, it's a lot easier to learn than Chinese, but a little more difficult that Spanish. Out of interest, what is your modersmål? --Shirt58 (talk) 11:06, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I firmly believe that as far as written languages go, the Scandinavian languages are by far the easiest languages for English speakers to learn: easier than French, German or Spanish. Learning the spoken language is a bit harder, but no harder than French. --ColinFine (talk) 12:19, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

My modersmål is English/Engelska. --Meltdowenn (talk) 12:26, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

The problem with the question "is language x easy to learn?" will always be "easy compared to learning what language? and moreover, for speakers with what background?" I agree with you, but that may be because of our backgrounds. Quick question, and no peeking: Colin, what is the name of the well-known book "Barnets Århundrade" in English? --Shirt58 (talk) 12:38, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

The only bit of "Barnets Århundrade" that is at all difficult is that "-et" means "the". Otherwise, if you're familiar with the Northern and Scottish word "bairn" and realise that "År" means "year", it's obvious. The suffixed articles -(e)n, -et and -na, and the ubiquitous word som are two things that you do need to learn, but once you've got them, lots of text becomes clear. --ColinFine (talk) 15:14, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

My background is Chaucer + Irvine Welsh + somehow inhaling a beginners Langenscheidt en/de dictionary in my middle teens. Ending up pretty much the same. See this. I'd start it up again - once I read it in English, of course - but I'm like all "Frygt og Bæven" of the wrath of Bishzilla, usw. p aka --Shirt58 (talk) 16:07, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I enjoy learning languages, have already mastered German, and have wanted to learn a North Germanic language but have been put off by the pronunciation, which seems really daunting to me, including especially the pitch accent of Swedish and also the large vowel inventory. Marco polo (talk) 14:59, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

If you have mastered German, large vowel inventories should be nothing to worry about. I speak Standard German with 26 qualitatively distinct vowel phonemes (14 monophthongs and 12 diphthongs) and wouldn't expect North Germanic languages to have significantly more than that. 82.83.88.16 (talk) 23:03, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Etymology of Comet

What can you tell me about the etymology of the word comet? If you could help me with Comet#Etymology, that would be great. I'm not sure if what is currently there is absolutely correct, or if there is a better source, but I'm currently doing a bit of work on that article. Many thanks. James^x12345 16:37, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Looks pretty correct. OED adds a few more steps. It states that the modern word is from the Old English cometa which is from the Latin comēta or comētēs. That, in turn, is from the Greek κομήτης ("wearing long hair"), and OED also notes that the term (ἀστὴρ) κομήτης already meant "long-haired star, comet" in Greek. Κομήτης was derived from κομᾶν ("to wear the hair long"), which was itself derived from κόμη ("the hair of the head", which was also used to mean "the tail of a comet"). — SMUconlaw (talk) 16:50, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

That was quick. Thanks. Is that worth including? Somebody might find it useful or interesting, so it possibly is. Would "Comet". Oxford English Dictionary (Online ed.). Oxford University Press. (Subscription or participating institution membership required.) suffice as a ref? James^x12345 20:35, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Sure, why not add it to the article (and to Wiktionary while you're at at). The information is actually from OED Online, which reproduces information from the second edition (1989) of the OED. There is a note on OED Online which states that the entry has not yet been fully updated. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 17:24, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Yup, I second that. — SMUconlaw (talk) 17:43, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Casting a spell

Hello linguists. Would you kindly tell me how to say "cast a spell" in all the languages that you know? I was intrigued to discover that in French and Spanish as well as in English the appropriate verb also means "throw" and wonder which other languages use this same construction. And for those languages that don't say "throw", what other verbs go with spells. Thanks. 184.147.136.32 (talk) 22:54, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Deuteronomy 18:11 has something similar.

—Wavelength (talk) 00:14, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

In Khmer it's ដាក់​​អំពើ which is literally "to put" or "to set" a spell on someone.

In Thai it's ใส่คาถา which can be translated as "to put magic on" or "to dress (someone) in magic".--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 00:43, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Since you didn't say it, in Spanish it's lanzar un hechizo, according to Google Translate. Lanzar means "launch" or "throw" (i.e. "cast"), from a Latin word that's akin to "lance", as in launching a spear. The hechizo part in theory could be replaced by encanto, but hechizo seems to be more used with negative connotations. It derives from Latin facticius, which means "artificial" and is connected with facere (to do or make), but the Spanish verb form hechizar means to "bewitch". The Spanish for "to do or make" is hacer, and the Real Academia website indicates that the verb hechizar is derived from the noun hechizo. So hacer and hechizar both trace their roots to facere, but they mean different things. (It's not just English that does this kind of thing!) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:06, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

French has "Jeter un sort" which is also synonymous with throwing. Edit: oh man I just realized you pointed that out. I have zero concentration today... :( Effovex (talk) 18:32, 17 August 2013 (UTC) - And "ensorceler", & "envoûter" (all without the verb "casting"). Don't mourn for such a triffle, Effovex, cheer up ! Arapaima (talk) 06:42, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

The first Norwegian words that come to mind are "forhekse" (bewitch) and "trollbinde". "Kaste trolldom over" also works, and uses the equivalent of "throw". "Ganne" is primarily associated with the Saami culture, even though it is a Norse word (according to the Norwegian Wikipedia). --NorwegianBlue ^talk 14:34, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Serbo-Croatian also has 'throw' in bacati čini/vradžbine. There are separate verbs opčiniti and začarati, but nowadays they have largely positive connotation, like 'enchant' (by e.g. love). No such user (talk) 13:55, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

German would be "jmd. verhexen" (to hex someone; this actually found its way into English via Pennsylvania German) or, more appropriately "jmd. bezaubern" (to bespell/bewitch someone), also "besprechen" (to bespeak), "bannen" (to banish), "behexen" and, metaphorically, "berücken" if aimed at a person. And those are the synonyms that crop up right away. Im sure medieval texts have a slew more. In general: "(Einen) Zauber wirken" would mean "to cast magic", or more literally, "to cause magic to happen" or "to weave/build magic". --79.195.117.17 (talk) 14:27, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks for the responses so far. I'm intrigued that so many languages use the throw construction, even in addition to having single verbs. But of course it makes sense that many use other concepts, and I appreciate all the explanations and examples! The Khmer version made me think of Hindi which (I think, my Hindi isn't very good) uses a verb something like "give" or "hand out". 184.147.116.153 (talk) 21:25, 21 August 2013 (UTC) (same person, IP changed again)