Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 December 27

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

December 27

Cotton Squareing

1. What is a cotton square
2. Why is it called it
3. What is the etymology of: "square" for cotton?
4. What is cotton squareing?Curb Chain (talk) 11:43, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Getting started -

#1 - A cotton square is the name for the bud of the cotton plant (Cotton Physiology, page 261).

#4 - "squaring" is the name for the period when the plant is producing buds (same source, p 263). 184.147.123.169 (talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

OED Online says that square is a US term for "[a] group of bracts surrounding the flower of the cotton-plant". It doesn't say why the term is used, but perhaps the bracts form the shape of a square around the flower. — SMUconlaw (talk) 15:15, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Arabic translation of a Maan news article

من المعروف تاريخيا أن حياة اليهود كلها حروب وقتال , لا لشيء إلا لأنهم منبوذون في جميع أنحاء الأرض ولا يوجد شعب على وجه البسيطه يكن لهم إحتراما , لأنهم مثيري الفتن والدسائس أينما حلوا , وعلى مدار التاريخ نعلم أنهم هزموا في كل حرب خاضوها وشردوا في الأرض . ولكن لعنة الله وغضبه عليهم تجعلهم يستمرون في غيهم وطغيانهم . ومن يكون جبانا فإنه يبطش إذا تمكن ويختبيء ويذل أمام أي مواجهة نداً لند . فقد حدثنا آبائنا واجدادنا أن فلسطينيا واحدا قبل عام 1948 كان يحمل عصا في شوارع تل أبيب فيسوق أمامه العشرات من اليهود الجبناء . لذلك فإن أي رصاصة توجه نحوهم يقابلونها بالطائرات والمدافع والدبابات . وهذا في العلوم العسكريه يعتبر هزيمة نفسية .

This is part of an article published by Maan News of which I would appreciate an accurate translation due to its provocative nature. Ankh.Morpork 21:00, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Until someone better than me comes up with a more cohesive translation, there you go:

It is historically known that the life of the Jews is that of wars and violence. This is due to the fact that they are outcasts everywhere on Earth; and there are no living people who actually respect the Jews, since they are known to engage in foul play and to weave conspiracies.

During the course of history, we know that the Jews were defeated in every single war they undertook - and this led them to withdraw and spread all over the world. However,the curse of God on them make them continue with their deceit and violence.

Whoever is a coward, can only succeed when he/she is undercover but will always suffer a severe loss in a face-to-face duel. Case in point: an old story told by our parents and grandparents of how a single Palestinian with a stick would be able to scare tens of coward Jews before 1948. Hence, that is the reasoning behind the Jews' excessive violence: a bullet shot their way will trigger them to shoot back with air strikes, missiles, and tanks. This - in the science of warfare - is considered a psychological defeat. _{Hia10 (talk) 23:44, 27 December 2012 (UTC)}

Wow, highly racist and factually wrong (the content, not the translation). "Jews were defeated in every single war they undertook" ? Have the people who read this garbage never heard of the Six-Day War and many others in modern Israel's history, in which they won against overwhelming odds ? Or for that matter the many wars fought in establishing ancient Israel/Judea. StuRat (talk) 00:18, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Nazi-style commentary about Jews. There has been an ANI discussion about the source of that quote as allegedly being a "reliable" news source. Reliable for demonstrating that they hate Jews, for sure, but not on anything else. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:26, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

I suppose that depends on what you mean by reliable. They may very well reliably report such ravings as this one. On the other hand, such a site would be terribly unreliable for reporting on the history of Israel. But I still have to wonder how they expect anyone to believe that "Jews were defeated in every single war they undertook". Do Muslim history courses completely ignore all of the wars leading to the formation and continued existence of Israel ? If so, how do they explain Israel's existence ? It just doesn't seem like a lie like that could be sold, any more than if they said all Jews were green and had tentacles, especially since the older generation who fought in those wars must remember who won. StuRat (talk) 04:20, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

The text in question is an opinion piece of journalism; it doesn't really try to be a historically accurate account. If you read the original Arabic text, it is implied that "they were in defeated in every war" is not meant in the strict literal sense. The intent is to show that even if the Jews won a particular war, they are not really winning - since their reputation is cemented as savages (according to the original text). Hyperbole is not the easiest thing to translate - as certain implications and shades of intents might be lost from one language to another. In summary, the text is an opinion piece and not to be treated as historically accurate. _{Hia10 (talk) 10:51, 29 December 2012 (UTC)}

There is a discussion going on at Talk:Operation Pillar of Defense where several editors maintain that Ma'an is a reliable source, and insist on including the corresponding material (not from the above passage). What would be the best way of handling this? Is there a wiki venue where one could deal with the WP:RS status of Ma'an, or perhaps a narrower agreement could be reached that it is not reliable as far as "Pillar of Defense" is concerned? Tkuvho (talk) 15:20, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

WP:RSN. You could bring a specific news article (preferably) or the news agency as a whole (not recommended). Frederico1234 (talk) 16:49, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

"Tutta" is the southern equivalent of "Bubba" meaning "sister."

"Tutta" is missing from the wiki dictionary. Just as "Bubba" is used in the South for "brother", in my part of West Tennessee and Northern Mississippi, "Tutta" was used for "sister." I was born in Amory, Mississpi in 1935 (Monroe County the same county and same year as Elvis Presley). My peers were all brothers. I had no sisters. Thus we called our female cat "Tutta" as though she was our sister.

I hate to lose this colorful bit of regional language and hope the Wiki researchers can verify my understanding of "tutta" and include it. Oysterdoctor (talk) 21:32, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

?I'm from Chester County TN, with kinfolk in Corinth; and we always used "sissy" for sister; I've never heard of "tutta" until this moment! Is this a Delta vs. hills thing? --Orange Mike | Talk 21:51, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

1) This isn't a dictionary; this is an encyclopedia. You probably want Wiktionary.

2) You'll need a reliable secondary source for your claim; we're unfortunately not able to accept personal recollections. AlexTiefling (talk) 21:59, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

"Bubba" is a well-known slang term for "Brother". I've known plenty of southern folks and never heard of this term "tutta", and I can't find it in Google either. It could be a regionalism, but I think the OP needs to do the research on it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:23, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't think "Tutta" can be very well-known; I'm from southern Kentucky, where the accent and vocabulary are similar to those of Tennessee, and I never heard of it. A Google search for "tutta" shows a great many links (it's Italian for "all" or "everything"), but none of the early hits have this meaning.

This kind of user contribution is unsuitable for Wikipedia, but you should contribute it to a site such as Urban Dictionary, which welcomes user input. John M Baker (talk) 15:34, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

It's unfortunate that this should be asked when many folks are away from university libraries for the holidays. Someone with access to the Dictionary of American Regional English could probably tell us all about this term. Deor (talk) 15:58, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

In Wouldn't Take Nothing for My Journey Now (1993), chapter "Voices of Respect", Maya Angelou writes "Young girls were called Sister, Sis, or Tutta. Boys became brother, Bubba, and Bro and Buddy." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sluzzelin (talk • contribs)

And the use of "Tutta" as a nickname, as here and here (women from Mississippi and Alabama, note) is more evidence of its currency. Deor (talk) 16:10, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

I haven't heard "tutta" before. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 03:16, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

"Tutta" is used as a female nickname in Norwegian, for example Susann "Tutta" Pettersen. A google search returned many "Tutta"s, whose first names were very different phonetically, and with no resemblance to "Tutta" (Inger, Klara, Julie...) I've never heard the suggestion that it should be derived from "sister", but it's not unreasonable that it might be (An infant just learning to speak, "søster" -> "tətə" -> "Tutta"). --NorwegianBlue ^talk 08:53, 29 December 2012 (UTC)