Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2024 August 29

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August 29

At peak US steam railroading, how much coal rail traffic was to sustain the locomotives?

Back when American railroads ran predominantly coal fired locomotives, they must have had quite the supply operation to keep the tonnage moving. What im curious about, and cannot find information on, is what percentage of total coal haulage went to the railroads them selves versus regular customers in industry and electricity production or export? 1%? 5%? ^Thanks,L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 02:56, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I must have watched too many Westerns, I thought they burned wood... Although not directly related, when the Germans invaded the Soviet Union in 1941 the total of 'housekeeping' (wirtschaft) trains (which included trains with coal for the railroads' own needs, rather than military supplies and troops) amounted to approximately 10% of the total.[1] MinorProphet (talk) 11:13, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

A critical factor you didn't mention is home furnaces and other smaller-scale building heating. [All statistics I'm citing come from this preprint by three US researchers.] Between 1920 and the mid-1940s, the majority of US homes were coal-heated, and bituminous coal was used by 2/3 to 5/6 of those homes (page 2). In 1920, per capita consumption of bituminous coal strictly for heating (whether residential or otherwise) was over 0.7 tons, a figure that fell to a little over 0.6 tons by 1940, and anthracite users consumed nearly 0.5 and 0.2 tons per capita in the same years (page 36). The latter page says the following: Retail (as opposed to sales for electricity, industry, coke, and railroads) sales of anthracite coal are not available until the 1950s. At that point, they were 20 percent of retail coal sales on a tonnage basis (Minerals Yearbook). Estimates in the mid 1920s suggested that 65 percent of anthracite was being used for heating. Nyttend (talk) 05:05, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Also, there's a complication if we look at sales, because many companies were vertically integrated. For example, the coal town of Wheelwright, Kentucky was operated by a steel company for 36 years — so the company wouldn't account for much of sales — and our article on the anthracite coal strike of 1902 notes that the Reading Railroad was then "one of the largest employers of miners", so the railways wouldn't have been buying coal from mines they owned. Maybe you could look for something from the Minerals Yearbook (cited in that paper I quoted), a USGS publication; the University of Wisconsin Library has many of them digitised, including some from the late steam era. The earliest volume, for 1934, doesn't have solid figures for shipping, but based on railway and river-barge shipping reports, it estimates that all US coal production in 1932 was 359,565,000 net tons (page 385 of the 1934 statistical report). I don't know where to look for railway coal consumption, but at least now we know how much was being produced. If you can find reports on railway haulage totals (maybe from the Interstate Commerce Commission?), you could work it out. Nyttend (talk) 05:16, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

PS, I don't have further time to look, but you might check the 1934 statistical report to see if it has a table estimating how much coal production went to various uses. Nyttend (talk) 05:20, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate the links, I will check it out! ^Thanks,L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:10, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Help confirm date of publishing

I have included following citation in a article Draft:Rabindra Rangshala under development. The book seem to be well catalogued so date of Publication may not be too crucial still less the confusion better hence requesting help in confirmation if possible.

First edition available on Archive.org (archive.org PDF link) does not show year of publication. But google book seem to show year of Publication 1991 but rest of preview is not available on google books. One entry at google books from Library of Congress seem to show question mark [1991?]. En WP article about book editor Gurbachan Singh Talib seem to show Talib's year of death 1986.

• Talib, Gurbachan Singh, ed. (1991). "Chapter I : An account of the Guru Nanak quincentenary celebration within India". Guru Nanak Commemorative Volume (First ed.). Patiala, India: Publication bureau, Punjabi University. p. 2.

Pl. help confirm date of publishing if possible. Bookku (talk) 07:47, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything beyond what you found already, except that the first reprint was from 1993 ([2]). Worldcat also shows "1991?". Since it's good enough for Worldcat and the Library of Congress, I'd suggest also using "1991?" in the references. Dekimasuよ! 08:05, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Invalid dates will likely get flagged as an error in a tracking category, now or future. Suggest 1991, with an inline comment and/or talk page discussion to this thread for more information. Like people, we sometimes don't know for certain when a book was born/published. You could also use {{circa|1991}} (c. 1991) -- but it would be an oddball case most tools and bots wouldn't know what to do. -- GreenC 00:01, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Rabindra Rangshala, Can be ranked amongst largest amphitheatre?

The Rabindra Rangshala, an amphitheatre, functioned from October 24,1968 to 1993.

Indian WP:RS media seem to claim that Rabindra Rangshala amphitheatre was one of world's largest in modern times. As of now I have not included the claim in the article. Can the rank or claim of being one of world's largest confirmed? Bookku (talk) 08:05, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Hmm. We have list of contemporary ampitheatres. 8,000 seats would sort very far down that list: however, the picture might be different if it was possible to filter out every "theater" that doesn't put on dramatic performances (not counting pop music or football), and to further filter out any built later than 1968. There's also the matter of ancient theaters still in use. The Ancient Theatre of Epidaurus is on that list (but should possibly be removed?) with 14,000 capacity, while Verona Arena is absent (but should possibly be added?) with 22,000. The ranking doesn't look great for Rabindra Rangshala on the face of it. Perhaps "constructed with the intention of being among the world's largest" would be easier to source. The number of acres on the site is large (about ten times that of the Verona Arena), but presumably nearly all of that is outside the structure.  Card Zero  (talk) 13:46, 29 August 2024 (UTC)