Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 September 26

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September 26

Does the UK need Gibraltar?

From a mere egoistic, pragmatic, strategic perspective, does the UK still need Gibraltar for anything? What interests does the UK defend when it defends Gibraltar? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.143.73.124 (talk) 02:49, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

It has an interest in respecting the will of the Gibraltar people, which have voted, overwhelmingly, (like 95%+) to remain under British Sovereignty, over multiple generations. See Gibraltar sovereignty referendum, 1967 and Gibraltar sovereignty referendum, 2002. It defends Gibraltar because its people are under British Sovereignty, wish to remain so, and the government has a right to defend people under its sovereignty and the territory they live on. --Jayron32 03:00, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

"Need" is a subjective determination. The Ref Desk is not for debate. Sticking purely to objective facts, its geopolitical importance should be evident from a glance at a map: it controls the Straits of Gibraltar and therefore passage between the Atlantic and Mediterranean. Also under its current status, it's a British Overseas Territory; uniquely, Gibraltar is the only such Territory part of the European Union. Being an EU member but not having many of the laws, taxes, etc. found in larger EU states makes it an attractive location for offshore banking, tax havens, and so on. Of course, this could all change fairly soon, and the status of Gibraltar is a significant issue in negotiations. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 06:54, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Although those financial advantages are to the benefit of the territory and don't enrich the UK as far as I can tell. If the Gibraltarians wanted to be Spanish, they have had the opportunity to say so at the ballot box as Jayron says above. The independence of the territory is not an option under the Treaty of Utrecht as I understand it. Alansplodge (talk) 08:21, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Although historically it's strategic value is evident, I'm not sure whether this is still the case. Wars are not fought anymore at sea, not anymore between national armies with a navy and so on. British Forces Gibraltar indicates that's it's rather a training area with no stationed troops, but it serves as stopover for aircraft and ships en route to Africa or beyond. Maybe since the UK has no aircraft carrier at present (but two under construction), it still is important for them to coordinate their efforts abroad.

Anyway, there's also a question of national pride. No country wants to lose territory voluntarily. The Spanish insist Gibraltar is theirs, and I don't see why the UK would cave in under pressure. Doroletho (talk) 11:52, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

". . . the UK has no aircraft carrier at present (but two under construction) . . . ." Ahem! HMS Queen Elizabeth (R08) was commissioned nearly a year ago, and is currently conducting flying trials in the USA. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.217.102.65 (talk) 13:45, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

My bad, the info I had was clearly not up-to-date. Doroletho (talk) 16:58, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

According Taxation in Gibraltar its a Tax haven and its mentioned there aswell. To the UK its strategically another branch office that secures the UK as major financial center of the world with the City of London as its core.

Of course especially all the small tax havens and their local population thrive very well on their "services". The Unemployment rate in 2016 was 19,6% in Spain and 1% in Gibraltar. So the motivation for the locals, to stay british, is pretty clear. Lets wait and see what BREXIT changes. There is a chance that the EU and other Nations put all these british tax havens on a Black List after BREXIT. Maybe a few years later, when the unemployment rate somehow got more like the other way around, everyone suddenly wants to join spain. --Kharon (talk) 12:23, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

"[Gibraltarian] People’s attitudes to both Spain and the UK are infinitely more nuanced and complex than might appear at first glance" Bordering on Britishness: what does it really mean to be Gibraltarian?. Alansplodge (talk) 16:21, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Ironically, in contrast to the articles claim of Gibraltar population being “more British than the British”, the one and only picture in the article you linked shows a man with a, very typical and locally unique to france and spain, Basque Beret. --Kharon (talk) 03:18, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't think anyone claimed that they were all ethnically British (if there is such a thing); our Gibraltarians article says they "are a racial and cultural mixture of the many immigrants who came to the Rock of Gibraltar over three hundred years". Many speak a local Spanish dialect called Llanito, the Gibraltarians that I have met switch easily between that and English. That's the paradox. In the Gibraltar sovereignty referendum, 2002 98% of them voted against joint sovereignty with Spain, preferring the status quo. So no deal with Spain; something to do with democracy and self-determination. Alansplodge (talk) 12:15, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

The UK doesn't 'need' Gibraltar, but there's no need to cede sovereignty to Spain when the people of Gibraltar don't want that. Why on earth should they? The ones in Catalonia wanting to see what people there thought are traitors according to Spain and their 'ringleaders' should all be in prison. By Spanish law Gibraltarians would be a bunch of traitors for having the referendums they had! Dmcq (talk) 09:36, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Wimpy in the UK

Is there a correlation between the locations of United Kingdom's branches of Wimpy and voting leave in the Brexit vote? 51.6.65.190 (talk) 16:16, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

I think Pearson's is moderately positive, but Starbucks appears to be an asympotitic intervening variable. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:27, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Only indirectly, in that Wimpy outlets tend to survive only in less prosperous locations; "In 1989, Wimpy underwent the most significant change in its history... A company called Grand Metropolitan PLC (which had also recently acquired Burger King) bought it and converted nearly 100 Wimpy counter-service units into Burger Kings. By 1990, 200 Wimpy restaurants were fully converted into Burger Kings". See The Slow Death of Wimpy, a British Institution. It seems to be broadly accepted that "the lowest income areas voted to Leave" (How did different demographic groups vote in the EU referendum?) so perhaps one could make a correlation, but not a very rigorous one. Alansplodge (talk) 16:37, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

"They come over here.... serving our Wimpys..... " Martinevans123 (talk) 16:44, 26 September 2018 (UTC) ".... and before that, 400 million years ago, when the first fish crawled up onto the land.....OUR land...."

As of 2018? There don't seem many surviving outside the South East, at least according to Google Maps, and some of those outside seem to be in service stations.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:52, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

I found Find Your Wimpy and came up with Huddersfield, Dingwall and Kilmarnock, but I agree that they do seem strongest in the south and east. Alansplodge (talk) 19:32, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Judaism: Kaddish D'itchadita

According to the article Siyum, "At the end of every volume of the Talmud a special hadran prayer is printed with a set order of prayers and a special kaddish, Kaddish D'itchadita, in honor of the completion of that volume, which Judaism considers to be an important achievement and a milestone worth celebrating." What is the text of this Kaddish? It's not clear in the article Kaddish.Thanks— Preceding unsigned comment added by Amisom (talk • contribs) 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi Amisom, possibly you need the section Kaddish#Text_of_the_burial_kaddish, which says that is the one recited after a siyum in Ashkenazi tradition, and gives the full text. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 23:06, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

:No, it's the text for a siyum, not burial. Hold on, I'll find it. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:24, 27 September 2018 (UTC) The IP is right, the actual kaddish is identical to a funeral, it's just preceded by siyum-specific text. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:27, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Here it is, with the rest of the hadran. According to what I just saw online, Chabad tradition is to say a regular kaddish d'rabbabanan. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:30, 27 September 2018 (UTC)