Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2021 February 4

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February 4

Why do modern movies still use orchestral soundtracks?

I've always wondered this, how come they haven't switched to electric music yet? 97.34.65.52 (talk) 02:13, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Because people still don't hate orchestral music? Because electric music (synthesizers, what?) would sound strange in, say, The Lord of the Rings? —Tamfang (talk) 03:07, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

"Electric music" is not a generally recognized concept. Our article Film score writes: "Since the invention of digital technology and audio sampling, many modern films have been able to rely on digital samples to imitate the sound of live instruments, and many scores are created and performed wholly by the composers themselves, by using music composition software, synthesizers, samplers, and MIDI controllers." What sounds like an orchestral soundtrack may have been produced digitally. Getting a full orchestral sound as in the sound tracks of Star Wars and The Lord of the Rings is probably still easier to accomplish using a live orchestra than digitally. Many film score composers, such as Hans Zimmer, combine digitally and orchestrally produced sound.  --Lambiam 04:52, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

By way of contrast, one might try listening to the soundtrack of Forbidden Planet, which used electronic music exclusively. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.40.9 (talk) 11:33, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

It's interesting that listening to orchestral music is now something of a minority pursuit, whereas the great majority of major films have an orchestral soundtrack. The answer seems to be that it's a useful tool to create a wide range of different moods that perhaps a rock band or a bank of synthesizers might find more challenging. A Short History of Orchestral Music in Movies has some information.

The use of existing classical music pieces for film soundtracks was a surprisingly late innovation by Stanley Kubrick for his 1968 masterpiece, 2001: A Space Odyssey, when he found that the classical tracks that had been imposed on the rushes sounded better than the commissioned soundtrack. Film composer Bernard Herrmann fumed: “It shows vulgarity, when a director uses music previously composed! I think that 2001: A Space Odyssey is the height of vulgarity in our time. To have outer space accompanied by The Blue Danube, and the piece not even recorded anew!”. [1] Alansplodge (talk) 12:08, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm sure Carl Stalling smiled at that. Matt Deres (talk) 18:41, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Ah yes. Cartoons seem to have led the way. The prime example of course is Fantasia (1940 film). Alansplodge (talk) 13:10, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

That had to do with costs. For example, Warner cartoons generally used music that was either in the public domain or which they already owned the rights to. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:37, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Maybe, but the Silly Symphony series (from which Fantasia sprang) was conceived ab initio as animations to match well-known classical pieces. Alansplodge (talk) 17:14, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

• The question has a false premise. Some movies have an orchestral soundtrack. Some have an electronic soundtrack. Some have a soundtrack played by a rock ensemble (bass, drums, keys, guitar, etc.) It really varies from film to film, and depends on the goals of the director. If you can name a genre of music or a type of musical ensemble or method of producing that music, anyone could find a dozen or more films that use that method. The premise that movies use only orchestral soundtracks, or don't use electronic music, is just incorrect. 40 years ago Chariots of Fire won the Academy Award for Best Original Score that was heavily electronic. --Jayron32 13:03, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

• And if you want more recent examples of non-orchestral soundtracks which leaned heavily on electronic music (even simulated orchestras, despite the objections above that organizing and paying 100 musicians individually for their work is easier to do than 1-2 guys working at a DAW for a few weeks), Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross (basically Nine Inch Nails, a pioneering act in the history of electronic music) have done notable original scores for films like The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and The Social Network, the former winning a Grammy and the latter winning an Oscar. Looking at the last 10 films to win, the traditional "get a bunch of musicians in a room and record them together" approach of orchestral music is getting rarer and rarer. Even orchestral sounding music isn't really done that way anymore. Including the electronic soundtracks by Reznor and Ross noted above (which had orchestral sounding pieces produced fully electronicly), many modern film scores are produced using sampling, often by recording short pieces of music and layering them on top of each other or pasting them together end-to-end, and not by hiring an orchestra and just giving them sheet music (which is not never done, just done less than other more efficient methods). Steven Price's soundtrack to the film Gravity, another Academy Award winner, relied heavily on sampling. Now, there are still orchestral composers that do it like in the old days (Alexandre Desplat comes to mind), but this is not the only, or even predominant, way modern films are scored. --Jayron32 13:18, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

• There's a style of "music" in some TV movies and other programs that's like a continuous drone but with slightly fluctuating pitch. It seems to start at the start of the show and continue uninterrupted till the end. Does this have a name, and who ever thought this was a good idea? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:01, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

• Drone of the dread?[2] Hack (talk) 07:47, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
• A YouTube video on the topic: [3].  --Lambiam 16:26, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Now I know. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 06:36, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Continental

Can anyone enlighten me as to the history and definition of a "Continental", which seems to have been a sort of posh nightclub event, as here. Doug butler (talk) 22:39, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

My impression is that "Continental" is not being used there as a noun, but as an adjective, as in "Continental concert". I found another Trove link to another event so described, here. It's about an event that happened in the following year, 1900. Both events were outdoors, and would presumably have had a largish crowd. This article also describes a second event in the same way, also outdoors, and with an audience of over 8,000. Oh, and here is another example, from the same period. So it seems to be a largish, outdoor concert. No idea where the name came from, or where it went. HiLo48 (talk) 00:05, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Maybe these guys: Continental Singers 41.165.67.114 (talk) 06:01, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Nope. Totally missed the date. 41.165.67.114 (talk) 07:04, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Seems to be the name of the group. https://dspace.flinders.edu.au/xmlui/handle/2328/912 41.165.67.114 (talk) 07:09, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Another performance: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29434046/2330116 41.165.67.114 (talk) 07:15, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

The The Australian Live Performance Database says: "Query whether Continentals is part of South Australian Club Hotel". So perhaps the house ensemble. The female lead, Kitty Grindlay, has numerous Google mentions appearing in southern Australia and New Zealand at the turn of the 20th century. Alansplodge (talk) 12:51, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

The 1899 concert was an open-air event that took place at the Jubilee Oval in Adelaide, also called the "Jubilee Exhibition Oval" or just "Exhibition Oval". The grounds included a large exhibition hall. These grounds were also variously referred to as "the old Exhibition Grounds" or "the old Continental Grounds",^[4][5] the latter for a reason I have not discovered (was an exhibition held there called "Continental Exhibition"?). Hence, concerts held there were also called "Continental Concerts". See the flyer at the bottom of this page for a "Grand Commonwealth Continental Concert", that announces: "Admission to Continental Grounds: SIXPENCE".  --Lambiam 16:03, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Here a distinction is made between (a) Jubilee Exhibition Building, (b) Jubilee Oval, and (c) Jubilee Continental Grounds.  --Lambiam 20:23, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

So clearly an Adelaide thing. I missed that, thanks. Doug butler (talk) 20:03, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

The Continental was also a dance. Here are Fred and Ginger doing it in The Gay Divorcee. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:25, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

And a breakfast. Alansplodge (talk) 01:05, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

I still chortle when I remember a radio play I heard years ago. It was about a couple whose marriage was on the rocks, and was set in a motel in Australia. The only breakfast on offer was a continental breakfast, which the wife ordered for the two of them. When it arrived, the husband asked, What's this?. She replied, That's a continental breakfast. He complained, What's this "continental breakfast" rubbish? Australia's a continent, isn't it? I'm hungry and I want a proper breakfast. It probably loses in translation, but I was driving when I heard it, and was laughing so hard I had to pull over. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:11, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

I expect it worked for its audience! But what would an Australian version of a continental breakfast be? Fried kangaroo? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:29, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Er, try a croissant and a coffee, like everywhere else. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:33, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

A croissant topped with Vegemite, maybe? He was right, that's not much of a breakfast. Do the Aussies have bangers and mash? That should be more filling. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:38, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

I suspect the days of having breakfast delivered to your motel room are either going, or gone. A typical breakfast at a motel/hotel dining room would be a buffet with cereals, toast, eggs, bacon, tomatoes, sausages, fresh fruit, fruit juice, coffee, tea etc, and you take what you want. Bangers and mash is more an occasional dinner meal at home.

Croissants with vegemite? Begone, evil one, you know not of what you speak! -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:12, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't think we have vegemite in America. But I've heard it's good. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:37, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Au contraire: [6]. And it's delicious, but apparently you have to be a born-and-bred Aussie to know exactly how much to have. Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 06:49, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Aha! I could get it at Walmart, assuming it's the real stuff. A Kraft product? So, I'm guessing I shouldn't just smear it on bread like I might with, say, apple butter? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:58, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Start with a scrape, then gradually build up to the point where it's just short of overwhelming. That's where maximum flavour is. Everyone has their own sweet spot. Don't ask me how it works, but all Aussie kids swear by it. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 07:02, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

If I can find it, I'll give it a try. Thank you! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:21, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Given the date of the article OP linked to (February 1899), and the story on page 2 of that newspaper ("Federation - Return of the Premier"), might "Continental" be a reference to Australian federation? DuncanHill (talk) 11:54, 11 February 2021 (UTC)