Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2020 January 9
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January 9
editMissing Artist
editHello there I sent this question in December as well. There is an artist who should be up on wiki. Richard Seaglove had spent a lot of time entering Paul's details I believe but it has still not been approved by Wiki.
Paul Robinson Nina Simone's drummer for her final 19 years and Van Morrison's drummer and who has worked with so many huge names and venues. Richard said several months ago that it would be up. Paul is about to release a biography of his time with Nina Simone. We are just wondering why his Wiki entry is not up yet. Really important for agents and publishers to see it up here before the book is released. Can you perhaps let me know why it's not yet up there? Is it still being verified? Blessings and many thanks for Wiki Rebecca — Preceding unsigned comment added by PoeticPlenties (talk • contribs) 10:51, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
- A couple of editors told you, about 5 weeks ago, what the problem is.[1] ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:07, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
- Also, what did you do to the help desk page? Did you go back to a previous version? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:13, 9 January 2020 (UTC) I am not sure what I did. I am just replying here
- Someone called Richard Seaglove here says that their work covers "Source, Design and Production of specialised merchandising materials focused on the music Industry.... " It would be interesting to find out whether their work extends to claiming to write WP articles that don't exist. Possibly not, but it's not a common name. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:20, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
- There's certainly enough information out there to establish he's notable enough to have an article about him. See here and here. There's lots out there; his best known work was with Nina Simone, but he's worked with a wide variety of other artists. I can't find any evidence of PoeticPlenties work on the article; was it created under another account? --Jayron32 13:19, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
Thank you so much Jayron32. Yes it's true he has worked with a bunch of extraordinary artists, and continues to do so. Currently drumming for Eric Bibb who just received Best International Blues artist. Van Morrison is another musician Paul Robinson drummed for a very good number of years. I don't know how wiki works, myself. No I didn't create the wiki entry for Paul. Someone called Richard Seaglove did. He uses two different emails 'henryharwood' and rich at glynt (which is the name of his studio I think. Apparently he completed an entry in 2019. I know this because he emailed me to ask me some other facts about Robinson's career. Robinson's partner (and mother of his daughter) did the Eulogy in French and English at Nina's funeral. This is a significant oversight that he is not mentioned on Nina's page from the very start. Can you help at all?
What is a fish game, a fish table, and a fish arcade?
editI'm reluctant to include this in any existing article, but this is a source that sort of defines the term.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 16:45, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
- I've got a feeling I've asked about fish games before. Will have a dig in the archives to see what I can find. DuncanHill (talk) 16:48, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
- Ah, it wasn't me, it was you @Vchimpanzee:! See Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2018 September 27#What is a fish game?. DuncanHill (talk) 16:51, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
- I forgot I had asked.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 16:55, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
- Anyway, I'm not sure how to include this in any articles. Redemption game is the only article mentioned.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 16:57, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
- Assuming I correctly edited Redemption game the first time I asked, the sources conflict. WFMY says the games are definitely illegal, and yet the new guy at the Salisbury Post says they are not but that Greensboro, North Carolina banned them. WFMY says Greensboro just enforced a rule that was already there. Anyway, I guess this requires further research but I've got other stuff to do today.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 17:05, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
- Living in North Carolina, I think I can bring up some personal knowledge. In NC, gambling halls and casinos are illegal, but "internet cafe"s or Sweepstakes parlors are not. In a lot of low-rent areas, people will set up what are called an "internet cafe" or a "sweepstakes", but which are essentially sketchy casinos. Fish tables are a type of game prevalent in those places. Remember also, in the real world, where most of us live, there are lots of things which are quite illegal, but which limited resources can make enforcement difficult, so people and business can often skate by for years without anyone doing anything. Even if these places are illegal, other than getting harrassed by the occasional bored police officer, they usually aren't high on the list of high-priority enforcement problems. Here is a recent article from another NC county. As noted in that article, the state of North Carolina has four enforcement officers to work these cases. Four. For the entire state. So that's why they are allowed to operate; in order to shut them down you need to gather evidence, investigate, make a case, arrest people, put on a trial, etc. You just can't police the entire state with just 4 people. --Jayron32 16:41, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
- I don't know if I can improve any article based on this source or the description here.
- Living in North Carolina, I think I can bring up some personal knowledge. In NC, gambling halls and casinos are illegal, but "internet cafe"s or Sweepstakes parlors are not. In a lot of low-rent areas, people will set up what are called an "internet cafe" or a "sweepstakes", but which are essentially sketchy casinos. Fish tables are a type of game prevalent in those places. Remember also, in the real world, where most of us live, there are lots of things which are quite illegal, but which limited resources can make enforcement difficult, so people and business can often skate by for years without anyone doing anything. Even if these places are illegal, other than getting harrassed by the occasional bored police officer, they usually aren't high on the list of high-priority enforcement problems. Here is a recent article from another NC county. As noted in that article, the state of North Carolina has four enforcement officers to work these cases. Four. For the entire state. So that's why they are allowed to operate; in order to shut them down you need to gather evidence, investigate, make a case, arrest people, put on a trial, etc. You just can't police the entire state with just 4 people. --Jayron32 16:41, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
- Ah, it wasn't me, it was you @Vchimpanzee:! See Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2018 September 27#What is a fish game?. DuncanHill (talk) 16:51, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
- That doesn't really make it clear what should be in a Wikipedia article. But if I make a mess and no one bothers to clean it up, I guess it's the same thing.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 17:09, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
- Part of the problem is that there isn't always good source text about things like this. No one is writing "an authoritative encyclopedia of sketchy gaming machines" or something like that. Lots of things in this world exist, but don't have great sources about them. --Jayron32 17:48, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
- I know my goals are in conflict with Wikipedia's goals, but I would just like to see these three terms at least defined somewhere on Wikipedia. It was many years before I really understood notability.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 19:53, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
- No, your goals are 100% in line with Wikipedia's goals. However, accomplishing a goal requires resources, and where those resources do not exist, the goal cannot be accomplished. For example, my goal is to be so wealthy I never have to work again in my life. Lacking both money and the means to get significantly more, I lack the resources to achieve that goal. Similarly here, we want to have reliable sources of information to learn more about this topic. If those sources don't exist, no amount of want will make them exist. --Jayron32 12:04, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
- I know my goals are in conflict with Wikipedia's goals, but I would just like to see these three terms at least defined somewhere on Wikipedia. It was many years before I really understood notability.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 19:53, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
- Part of the problem is that there isn't always good source text about things like this. No one is writing "an authoritative encyclopedia of sketchy gaming machines" or something like that. Lots of things in this world exist, but don't have great sources about them. --Jayron32 17:48, 10 January 2020 (UTC)