Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2018 January 22

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January 22

Film title: La Cage aux Folles

Re: La Cage aux Folles. What is the English translation for this film title? I always assumed that it was a French phrase; and I always assumed that it meant "A cage of fools". But, I cannot get any meaningful help from "Google Translate". And the Wikipedia article does not give the English translation. (Unless I missed it.) Does anyone know? Thanks. 32.209.55.38 (talk) 17:39, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

If you do the words individually it might make more sense. It seems to mean more like "crazies." But the origin of "fool" may be useful.[1] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:19, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Folle was a slang word for gays in the 1970s, and the name comes from the gay nightclub which the couple manages in the movie. In everyday speech, "folle" is the feminine of "fou" when used as an adjective (which means crazy; its root is the same as the English "fool"). The film was remade in English under the name "the Birdcage", which is sort of equivalent. --Xuxl (talk) 19:16, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

It should also be noted that the word "fou" can be seen as a little bit obscene in French, depending... The pronunciation is identical to several forms of the verb "foutre" (to fuck) (see here, je fous, tu fous, etc.) and there's several French idioms that take advantage of this double entendre. --Jayron32 17:18, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

(e/c)

Another hint: The Birdcage is the title of an adaptation; and another etymology to consider: folly. —107.15.152.93 (talk) 19:18, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Hence Les Folies Bergère = The Shepherdess's Mistakes. (Grammarians of the utmost fame have long wondered just exactly what it was that she repeatedly got wrong.) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:11, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

That would be "Les folies de la bergère". In the actual name, Bergère is apparently from the name of a nearby street, according to the French wp article. Folies could be translated as "Tomfoolery" or "Silliness" in this context. --Xuxl (talk) 21:07, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

The term "follies" is cognate with folies, and both are used to signify a big show or "extravaganza".[2] As with productions like the Ziegfeld Follies or the Ice Follies. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:32, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@ Xuxl: :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:36, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

The article La Cage aux Folles (play) - which is about the original theatre production on which films and musical are based - appears to translate the title as "Birds of a Feather." Wymspen (talk) 21:46, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

As I remember it Wymspen's post is the translation that was used by most of the film reviewers at the time. Here is Ebert's review. Here is a more recent review using the same translation. MarnetteD|Talk 01:26, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Very helpful. And I just noticed that the Wikipedia article entitled La Cage aux Folles (musical) states the following: La cage aux folles literally means "the cage of mad women". However, folles is also a slang term for effeminate homosexuals (queens). Thanks. 32.209.55.38 (talk) 05:07, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Even more literally imho, "the cage with mad women. –Tamfang (talk) 03:34, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Probably not, while there is not a one-to-one correlation between prepositions in French and English, usually "avec" means "with", and I don't see where this usage prefers with; "of" works better here. --Jayron32 11:42, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

avec is translated 'with', but it's narrower than the English word: more like 'accompanied by'. In Astérix et Cléopatre, to pull an arbitrary example out of the dust-bunnies of memory, Panoramix is described as un druide à barbe blanche, where we'd say "with a white beard". In Le Devin, iirc, Obélix is described on different pages as roux … avec des tresses [red-haired, with braids] and un grand guerrier roux à tresses. Marcel Gotlib made a shaggy-dog pun involving l'allée … aux cent cimes [the lane with a hundred peaks]. —Tamfang (talk) 09:41, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Well, that's the point I was making. One has to understand the idiomatic translation to pick the right preposition. The "Cage of Mad Women" translation works better because English uses "of" in parallel constructions (c.f. ship of fools, house of the rising sun, etc.) --Jayron32 13:58, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, all. 32.209.55.38 (talk) 21:20, 29 January 2018 (UTC)