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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Michael Jackson videography/archive3

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was archived by Giants2008 via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 10 December 2018 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Michael Jackson videography

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Michael Jackson videography (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Chase | talk 17:32, 15 July 2018 (UTC), Akhiljaxxn (Talk) 07:38, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I added a lot of work into the article way back when and have nominated it before, but after a while I added some things that were listed as reasons for not being promoted. Chase | talk 17:32, 15 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Akhiljaxxn

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Few thoughts
Reply to Akhiljaxxn: I am not sure what you mean by the first bullet. Are you saying I should add one or two sentences about those two in the lead or are you asking why I only have one or two sentences about then in the article? As for the section on television, I agree that it is quite small, but there is notch content from Michael Jackson on the matter. I would love more input as to what you mean better "compose" as it use to be a table and that was awful for one or two shows. Chase | talk 14:33, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
yes you should add one or two sentence about those three films/short movies.amd yeah you are right on section television.except above i mentioned the article definitely meets all of the requirements; I don't see why this shouldn't be accepted.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 00:56, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Reply to Akhiljaxxn: checkY Done Chase | talk 21:26, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Allied45

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Comment: nice work on the list, just wondering though why there are several directors that are red-linked when other have been left unlinked? Also in the filmography table there's no links for directors with multiple appearances, yet they are linked in other tables? — Allied45 (talk) 02:00, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Allied45 how it looks now?. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:17, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Seems a lot more consistent now! – Allied45 (talk) 10:12, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Reply to Akhiljaxxn and to Allied45: Thank you for fixing the names, Akhiljaxxn. I did notice that when I first looked at the page from a while back, but just forgot to change it. Anything else you want to comment on, Allied45? Chase | talk 15:47, 28 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I had another look over, and although I'm no expert on the topic, here's some things I noticed:

  • "The video was filmed in four geographic regions (Americas, Europe and Africa)" – should this be three, or four within?
Americas including two regions ie, Nrth America And South America. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:24, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The video features a cameo appearance by the rap duo Kris Kross and Michael Jordan" – the wording sounds like Kris Kross and Jordan are the rap duo. Perhaps change to: "The video features cameo appearances by the rap duo Kris Kross and basketball player Michael Jordan."
 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:20, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link to the albums mentioned in the "Description" column of the "Video albums" table
Reply to Allied45: The only reason that I did not do that because they are linked multiple times throughout the article, per MOS:REPEATLINK, but it does state links can repeating if it is necessary in tables, etc. So do you think this table needs it even though they can scroll up and see the same link? Chase | talk 16:43, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
checkY Done. Chase | talk 18:11, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is all I really noticed, the list looks good, Allied45 (talk) 05:08, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:14, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from TompaDompa

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  • The WP:LEAD is way too long; the recommendation is no more than four paragraphs, whereas this is twice that. From what I can gather, this is an over-correction from the previous FLC review. The longest lead of the WP:Featured lists for artist videographies (the one for Beyoncé) has a word count of 715; this has a word count of 1,027.
Hey how it looks now?. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 14:06, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Still too long, in my opinion. The WP:LEAD needs to find the right balance between the number of entries described in it and the level of detail each entry is described in. To my eye, the problem is more with the latter, and I think it can be fixed. If it turns out that I'm wrong and it is not feasible to get the WP:LEAD down to a reasonable length without leaving out either too many entries or too much information about each entry, one may have to consider tightening up the scope and/or using WP:Summary style. TompaDompa (talk) 23:06, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think the word count of this article is almost same like beyonce now and I feel like the lead should be longer than Beyonce's. Beacuse MJ had a long career spanning more than four decade. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:26, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The WP:LEAD needs copyediting to pass WP:FLCR 1. For example, the last paragraph has a typo ("an" should be "and") and a sentence beginning with a minuscule.
 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 14:06, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Taking a quick look, I see a bunch of stray periods scattered throughout. I say focus on the length, though. The copyediting can wait until the bigger problem has been fixed. TompaDompa (talk) 23:06, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:56, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • The descriptions for "Billie Jean" and "The Way You Make Me Feel" contain MOS:CONTRACTIONS.
 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 13:40, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
 Done no more dead link now. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 13:29, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I still get error messages for the following: [2][3][4][5][6][7], and this redirects somewhere completely different. TompaDompa (talk) 23:06, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done-Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:53, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Both links to mvdbase.com and one of the two to variety.com seem to be dead. TompaDompa (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
These links are stil working for me 63, 70, 80 .Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:55, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
They work for me too now. Weird that they didn't before. TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • Reference 120 is a duplicate of reference 29 (both link here).
 Done.-Akhiljaxxn (talk) 14:32, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Michael Jackson: For the Record appears twice in the source list.
 Done Removed one.-Akhiljaxxn (talk) 13:56, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

At this time, the list does not meet the criteria for WP:Featured list status. If and when the above issues are resolved, I'll do a more thorough review. TompaDompa (talk) 00:03, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Replaced few links with new. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 14:06, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

CCamp2013 has not edited Wikipedia for three weeks, if they do not respond here and/or this nomination is not adopted, I will archive it in a few days. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:36, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Akhiljaxxn are you willing to adopt this nomination? If not, I'll close it very shortly. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:40, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man yes I am. And I think I've adressed all the suggestions above. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 00:11, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
TompaDompa your concerns have been responded to. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:40, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The last four issues remain unresolved. I haven't checked whether the ones relating to the WP:LEAD have been resolved. TompaDompa (talk) 07:44, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Solved all your issues and tell me how it looks now? Akhiljaxxn (talk) 17:03, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
See my replies above. TompaDompa (talk) 23:06, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Reply to The Rambling Man and to TompaDompa: I am also here to provide any edits as the original nominator. I want to thank Akhiljaxxn for keeping this alive as I have put a lot of work into this list over the years. Also, I feel like the lead should be longer than Beyonce's, although I think the lead that I first nominated the list with was fine as well. Chase | talk
Thank you very much for your review; I believe I have addressed everything. Please let me know if that is not the case or if you have any further questions or comments. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:31, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Some more comments:

  • Jackson has been called the King of Music Videos. – by whom? Is this so common as to warrant being mentioned in the second sentence of the page?
Jackson has been called the King of Music Videos by many including Guinnes book of world records.[1] Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:48, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think it should be attributed inline or removed outright. TompaDompa (talk) 08:59, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Referred to as the "King of Music Videos" in subsequent years. is a sentence fragment. TompaDompa (talk) 12:33, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 16:49, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I stand by my previous assessment that it should be attributed inline or removed outright. TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • Jackson transformed the music video into an art form and a promotional tool through complex story lines, dance routines, special effects and famous cameo appearances, simultaneously breaking down racial barriers. – this shouldn't use WP:WikiVoice. It sounds very promotional.
See how it looks now .Akhiljaxxn (talk) 06:52, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:SAID, it should be "said that" (or something similar) rather than "observed how". More to the point, what needs inline attribution is "transformed the music video" and "breaking down racial barriers". The use of dance routines, special effects and so on is a matter of fact, whereas the impact thereof is a matter of opinion. I'd rephrase it to say that those things were used in WP:WikiVoice and then attribute the impact to the person making that claim. See WP:YESPOV – Avoid stating opinions as facts. and Avoid stating facts as opinions. TompaDompa (talk) 08:59, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 17:53, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The choreography in Thriller has become a part of global pop culture, replicated everywhere from Indian films to prisons in the Philippines. – "everywhere" doesn't seem like WP:NPOV phrasing to me – it reads like trying to play up the impact.
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 06:52, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 06:52, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The video for "In the Closet" was Jackson's most sexually provocative piece. – this is pretty subjective. In general, the WP:LEAD doesn't really give an encyclopedic impression. It reads more like an article in a magazine at times.
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 17:53, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Replaced two photos of David Fincher and martin Scrosese, And no more photo of Jhon Landis available on commons. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 06:52, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per MOS:SURNAME, the artist should not be referred to as "Michael".
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 06:52, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The descriptions for the music videos are not consistent in style. For instance, some are in the past tense and some in the present tense.
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 09:17, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There is still a mix of past and present tense, as well as other inconsistencies in style. TompaDompa (talk) 12:33, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

TompaDompa (talk) 23:00, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

More comments about the WP:LEAD:

Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • Before Thriller, Jackson struggled to receive coverage on MTV, allegedly because he was African American. – A few things:
    • "Before Thriller" is perhaps not the best temporal description. It would be more helpful to the reader to say "Jackson's first [number] music videos", seeing as it's the music videos that are relevant (and the reader would then not need to know the album's chronological place in Jackson's career).
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:50, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In the early 1980s, Jackson became a dominant figure in popular culture and the first African Americanentertainer to have a strong crossover fanbase on MTV is missing a period. TompaDompa (talk) 12:33, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 13:57, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • "struggled" can either mean that there were difficulties ("struggled" as in "had trouble") or a conflict ("struggled" as in "fought"). It should be rephrased in a way that makes it clear which.
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 17:58, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • "allegedly" should really be avoided. Alleged by whom? This is the kind of thing that cannot be mentioned merely in passing like this.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:50, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Removing the word "allegedly" didn't really fix the problem. The racial discrimination needs to be elaborated upon. TompaDompa (talk) 07:53, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 17:58, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pressure from CBS Records persuaded MTV to start showing "Billie Jean" and later "Beat It", leading to a lengthy partnership with Jackson, also helping other black music artists gain recognition. – this sentence is a bit confusing. It should be clarified who the partnership was with, CBS Records or MTV. It is also not clear how this helped the others gain recognition.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:37, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • MTV's focus shifted in favor of pop and R&B. – from what?
 Fixed. Rock 'N' Roll .Akhiljaxxn (talk) 06:06, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The use of quotation marks vs. italics is not entirely consistent. The videos for "Thriller" and "Ghosts" are in italics.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:19, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Michael Jackson's "Thriller short film" should be Michael Jackson's "Thriller" short film, no? The other one has an unpaired quotation mark at the first mention and italics at the second. TompaDompa (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 17:47, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The issues with "Ghosts" remain. TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved
  • The two sentences in the WP:LEAD about the music video for "Thriller" are in a counterintuitive order to me (shouldn't the video itself be mentioned before the choreography?), and could probably be merged into one and trimmed somewhat.
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:37, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the 19-minute music video for "Bad"—directed by Martin Scorsese—Jackson began using sexual imagery and choreography not previously seen in his work. He occasionally grabbed or touched his chest, torso and crotch. The video also featured Wesley Snipes. – this should be one sentence, not three. The last sentence could be dropped entirely.
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:37, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 20:21, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • He received the MTV Video Vanguard Award in 1988 and the MTV Video Vanguard Artist of the Decade Award in 1990.In 1991 the first award was renamed as Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award in his honor. – there's a missing space after the period, but the two sentences should be joined with a semicolon anyway. Moreover, "first award" should be replaced with "former".
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:19, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Semicolons are followed by minuscules, not capitals. TompaDompa (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 17:43, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved
  • It was nominated for several awards at the 51st Academy Awards. – I'd use the actual number in lieu of "several".
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:19, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 20:21, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • Jackson later starred in films such as Disney's Captain EO in 1986, the anthology film Moonwalker in 1988 and the posthumous documentary This Is It in 2009. – this does not seem to be mentioned in the cited source.
 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 16:14, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The first source doesn't mention Jackson, the second is dead, and the third redirects elsewhere. TompaDompa (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 17:43, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

More comments to come. TompaDompa (talk) 13:14, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments about the list:

  • As noted above, the descriptions are very inconsistent in style. It looks like they have been copied from elsewhere. They should be harmonized.
  • Several of the descriptions mention the date the video was shot or released. Is this really relevant?
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • A music video produced to promote the single of the same name and features the five Jackson brothers wearing white suits and dancing on a stage. – this is not grammatical, as the first half is a sentence fragment.
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 18:08, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 18:08, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The video, features the group's members dancing on a black background, relied heavily on electronic trail effects, created at Image West, Ltd. using then-cutting edge equipment: the Scanimate analog computer system and a Quantel DFS 3000 digital framestore. should be rewritten as multiple, shorter sentences. TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • Tito's sons, Taj and Taryll – Tito who? There's a good chance the reader will not be familiar with the names of the other members of The Jacksons. This should use the full name and include a link.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • shower scenes referencing Psycho – is it really the novel the music video references, and not the movie?
There are lots of movies based on this novel.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I know there are only two: Psycho (1960 film) (which had several sequels) and Psycho (1998 film). That sort of narrows it down to just the 1960 film for a 1984 music video. My point was that it's more likely that a music video references the movie than the book, both because they're both made in a visual medium and because the movie is more well-known. Also, this reference doesn't seem to be verified by either of the sources cited. TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:03, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's still unsourced, no? TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The video has many references to the 1961 film West Side Story, especially the "Cool" sequence. – this is fairly opaque unless the reader is familiar with both the music video and the film.
How it loks now?. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Examples would be nice, as long as they're possible to understand for someone who hasn't seen the film or the music video. TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The video begins with a group of males trying to pick up women, but they do not get any luck. – I'd describe their attempts as being unsuccessful rather than saying that they do not get any luck (not a particularly encyclopedic phrasing). It is also unclear to me why this part of the video is described and the other parts are not.
See how it looks now. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It should say what else happens in the video, not just how it starts. I also noticed a typo: thiry-four. TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • Instead, it featured a montage of footage from various major news events. – I'd elaborate a bit on this, or at least exemplify.
 Done.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Graduation" should not be capitalized. TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • The video featured Jackson performing the song live during his Bad World Tour. – I'd really try to rephrase this to avoid the possible interpretation that the World Tour was not good.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • with additional footage from June 27–28 show at Parc des Princes – this seems to be missing a definite article (or possibly a possessive pronoun).
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Jackson filmed the video as a promotional video for the song, which originally was a segment of his 1988 film Moonwalker. – which was a segment of Moonwalker, the video or just the song?
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The music video featured the Jackson family members, except for La Toya and Marlon, and also includes children of The Jacksons. – this does not make it immediately clear who or how many of the family members were featured. I would suggest phrasing it such that the reader is informed how many members from each generation the video features (which ones is optional, but there is definitely enough room for it). It should also include a link to the Jackson family.
How it looks now? Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Most" should not be capitalized. I also think that the number of family members should be given. TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • It was set in ancient Egypt and featured groundbreaking visual effects – don't call the visual effects "groundbreaking", describe what they are instead.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What the visual effects are should be specified. TompaDompa (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • The video also featured Jackson's first on screen kiss. – there should be a hyphen in "on-screen".
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The music video was inspired by the album's cover art from which the single was featured in and also uses computer graphics. – this is an anacoluthon.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's no longer an anacoluthon, but it is kind of a non sequitur. TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • The footage in the music video featured scenes of Jackson and White together, as well as brief coverage from White's funeral. – who is White?
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The video was filmed in four geographic regions (Americas, Europe and Africa). – it's a bit odd to count North and South America as two regions but mention them collectively as the Americas.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • A promotional music video for the single of the same name and was shot in black and white. – this is ungrammatical, as the first half is a sentence fragment.
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 00:25, 5 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Two music videos were made for the single. – should there not be two entries in the list then, since this is a videography?
 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 09:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Both versions' descriptions should ideally start with "One of two music videos made for the single." TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 17:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved:
  • members of a real life gospel group – there should be a hyphen in "real-life".
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 09
14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
  • The entry for "This Is It" should really mention that it was released posthumously, as this is very important context.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 09:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The video was intercut with clips showing people in Haiti following the earthquake. – this should include a link to the earthquake and perhaps a short description.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, I think this would need a lot of copyediting to pass WP:FLCR 1; the writing is far from professional standards right now. TompaDompa (talk) 14:01, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

TompaDompa Can you please close the suggestions that I solved already? It will help me to identify the unsolved one very easily. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 13:52, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Lirim.Z

edit

All the references should have the same date format, an accessdate, if given an author and the 'work' parameter should only be used for magazine and newspapers. For e.x. use 'publisher=MTV' not 'work=MTV'. I did a couple of refs already.--Lirim | Talk 23:02, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Seee how it looks now..Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:21, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There are still refs with different date formats.--Lirim | Talk 19:53, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:25, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Giants2008

edit
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 22:08, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Source review – There's a lot of issues here, some of which should have been spotted before now. I haven't done spot-checks yet, but formatting and reliability checks show a laundry list of concerns:
  • Refs 8, 64, and 150 have all caps in their titles that need removal.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 02:05, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 11 looks poorly formatted with the cite patent template. There's no publisher or access date with this template. I'd suggest just using cite web for this, as it will lead to a result more consistent with the rest of the article. Also, the inline link to this cite needs removal, as that is a Manual of Style violation.
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 02:13, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Inline link still needs removal. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:21, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:11, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Extra period after ref 12 needs removal.
 Done Akhiljaxxn (talk) 02:16, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs 19, 68, and 96 are book cites with no page numbers. For verifiability, I suggest including page numbers for these or searching for replacements.
 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 02:41, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This wasn't done at all. None of those cite have had page numbers added to them, and they are all still there. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:21, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:40, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I hate to leave this unstruck, but one of the book cites still doesn't have a page number. Its number is currently 21 (Guinness World Records 2004). Giants2008 (Talk) 22:31, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 06:38, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In the replacement, you have "Lewis Jones" as the author. This is obviously a mixing of two books; which is it supposed to be? Giants2008 (Talk) 22:13, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This is also replced and see how the current one looks.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:38, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, the publisher of that source is Lulu.com, a self-publishing company. Most of the books from that publisher are not considered reliable sources, and I doubt this one would be an exception. The other reference, once the author is correctly identified, would be a superior source to this one. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:09, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 10:33, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This needs Guinness World Records added in the work parameter of the citation template and it will be good to go. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:15, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 14:09, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 27 doesn't need to have The Grio in both the work and publisher parameters, as it leads to duplication in the cite.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 02:46, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs 29 and 30 are YouTube links. Is this some kind of official site? If not, it's probably a copyvio and we shouldn't be linking to it. Even if it is okay, the cites need publishers added to them.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:11, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 31 lists the page as "Unknown", which isn't really acceptable. If this was from an unpaginated Google Books link, my suggestion is to add the chapter number or name.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:47, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Time is listed twice in ref 41. Also, the date appears a second time in unique formatting.
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:47, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Iamnotastalker.com (ref 42) doesn't sound reliable to me. A replacement should certainly be found for whatever material this is supporting.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:28, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs 48, 51, 74, 124, and 150 are print publications and should have their publishers italicized.
 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:46, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 53 has more duplicate formatting, and Billboard shouldn't be the article title. Also, the month shouldn't be shortened here.
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 09:07, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 57 is another unreliable source (IMDB). That needs replacement as well.
 Done.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 09:07, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 60 is missing a publisher (Rolling Stone).
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 09:32, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 62 is another poorly formatted parent link.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 09:32, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's a br visible in the table after ref 63.
 Fixed.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:11, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 67 is another one where the publisher (Jet) is being incorrectly listed as the article title.
Jet is the title; not the publisher.Johnson Publishing Company is the publisher.pls do a double check.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:40, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, Jet is the name of the magazine. You want to have the title of the specific article itself in that field. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:21, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:40, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 83 (The Guardian) needs more formatting, as it's missing most details, such as publisher and access date.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:32, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 101: Surely the last word of Dance and Fitness Magazin needs to be fixed. In addition, that publisher should be italicized.
 Done Citation replaced.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:40, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 108: Last word of High Beem is another typo.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:40, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 112 looks like somebody's personal website. Why is this a reliable source?
 DoneNew RS added. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:40, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 113 is missing an access date.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:36, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • TMZ (ref 118) isn't particularly reliable, as it's mainly a celebrity gossip site. Is there really nothing better for the facts it's supporting?
 Done New RS added. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:58, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Near that reference are pages from Michaeljackson.com and michaeljackson.com. One style of formatting should be used consistency throughout.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:58, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Still see different usages here. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:21, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:40, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are a ton of unformatted citations from refs 129 to 138. I'm stunned that nobody saw them earlier, but this should be addressed urgently. While I'm on the subject, MJstar.com (ref 137) sounds like an unreliable fan site.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:02, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Most of these are still missing access dates, so I'd say they still need more formatting. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:21, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 06:45, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Still see no access dates in any ref from number 124 to number 128 – five in all. We need an access date in addition to the date the source was published, as the other web references have. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:13, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 10:33, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Same goes for MJ Vibe (ref 144).
 Done New RS added. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 14:39, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 148 needs further formatting.
 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:30, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much for your review; I believe I have addressed everythin. Please let me know if that is not the case or if you have any further questions or comments. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:30, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have a couple more things from the checks I did in response to the above comments, in addition to the responses above. First, the title of ref 107 is "archived copy", which isn't going to be right. One of the bots does this sometimes; just take a look at the source and put its real title in that field instead to fix this.
Second, the publisher of ref 149 should be italicized since that is a print publication. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:21, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:40, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I left another note above, and count two outstanding items as I write this. Spot-checks of refs 45, 135, and 136 turned up no issues, so we're a couple of fixes away from the source review being a pass. However, please look below for other pressing matters. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:31, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 22:13, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Sorry to have to do this, but while checking the responses to the source review above, I found a ton of glitches that other reviewers should have spotted by now. Without looking that hard, I saw these issues:
  • "They were granted US patent for the device" needs "a" before US.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:41, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's an excess period after reference 15.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:41, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "for Outstanding Music Video at the award shows 2002 ceremony." "shows" should be "show's", with an apostrophe.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:41, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's another excess period after ref 24.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:41, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • One more excess period follows an excess space after ref 26.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:41, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Television: Space needed after ref 144.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:41, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the last sentence of the section, "Archival" shouldn't be capitalized.
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:41, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's a lot of errors, and I didn't even look at any of the prose inside the tables. In good conscience, I can't suggest that any of the closers promote this article until it's been cleaned up. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:31, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Just to update, I left a couple more notes above. In addition, I saw one more glaring prose issue in the last sentence of the Television section: as an encyclopedia, the use of Michael here is much too informal. I could understand it if we were using it to distinguish him from other members of his family, but that isn't the case there. Let's get that and the other issues fixed so that I can fully cap this review. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:13, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 05:41, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The point above about references 124 through 128 lacking access dates remains an issue, and I left another comment above that one as well about the newest source. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:09, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
One final response is above. Fix that issue and we can consider this source review a pass. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:15, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, the source review now looks like a pass. Please do focus on the copy-editing concerns raised above, since they mirror the issues I found in a brief glance. I'm not sure how much longer we can keep this FLC open given the continued prose problems this far in. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:08, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Giants2008: if I may be so bold, I think it should probably be archived. The problems with the prose and non-encyclopaedic phrasings are very widespread and although progress in fixing these has been and continues to be made, it does not seem likely that it can be brought up to snuff for WP:Featured list status within a reasonable timeframe. In addition to this, the descriptions for the list entries lack basic consistency in their approach to describing the music videos (presumably an artefact of not originally having been written for this purpose). It seems to me that the list would need a significant overhaul in order to harmonize the descriptions and while this is definitely something that can be done, I think it would be better to nominate the list all over again once it has been taken care of than to keep this nomination open until the issues have been dealt with satisfactorily, considering the substantial amount of time I would expect it to require. TompaDompa (talk) 16:41, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
  1. ^ http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/71833-longest-music-video
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