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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/S&M (song)/archive10

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S&M (song)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:GrahamColm 16:19, 13 August 2013 [1].

Nominator(s): SchroCat (talk) 22:46, 21 July 2013 (UTC) & AARON• TALK 22:46, 21 July 2013 (UTC) [reply]

This article has had a troubled time at FAC and may now be the record holder for the most attempts for gain the gold star: this is number ten. Since attempt nine, there has been something of a re-vamp of the article from fresh eyes and a different viewpoint, including an excellent PR from Cassianto; the page has had a good clean and polish and should now read more freely then it did previously. Fingers crossed that this tenth attempt will be the last. - SchroCat (talk) 22:46, 21 July 2013 (UTC) & AARON• TALK 22:46, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. The article has been through a significant amount of review. It is meticulously sourced. The writing quality is clear and understandable for the reader. The article is of a high level of quality. — Cirt (talk) 18:46, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You're both quite welcome. Thanks for contributing to this quality improvement project on Wikipedia. Much appreciated, — Cirt (talk) 22:49, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Source and media checks

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Source review - spotchecks not done

Media check - all OK (fair-use, OTRS, Flickr CC). Sources and authors provided.

  • Fair-use is OK - infobox, sound-sample and illustration of a controversial court case subject. Appropriate resolution / length.
  • Flickr images show no signs of problems - OK.
  • 2 images have been replaced for better copyright and fair-use situation - OK. GermanJoe (talk) 10:48, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Comments from Adabow

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Mostly prose nitpicks:

  • "The American songwriter Ester Dean wrote the song in collaboration with the producers Stargate and Sandy Vee. " - "The American songwriter" makes her sound like someone of utmost importance; drop the "the". Also, perhaps "in collaboration with the song's producers"?
  • "A subsequent remix that features Britney Spears was released" - iffy prose. Why is the remix subsequent? You could say 'A remix that features Britney Spears was later released'
  • "The song peaked at number one in Australia, Canada and Poland, number three on the UK Singles Chart, and reached the top five in France, Germany, Ireland and Spain." - awkward special treatment of the UK. Why not include the UK in the "top five" countries?
  • "a moderate dance groove of 128 beats per minute" - I may be wrong here (I have very little musical knowledge), but the article for groove (music) states that a groove is a "feel" or sense of swing; don't you mean tempo of 128 bpm?
  • Is MTV Buzzworthy even a separate entity worth mentioning? I know some newspapers (I can't think of any off the top of my head) give their various sections exotic names - isn't this similar? I suggest just attributing the review to "Chris Ryan of MTV".
  • "A remix of "S&M", featuring rapper J. Cole, was released on the internet on January 17, 2011." - this sentence is fine but IMHO it would flow better without the commas. (Just my personal preference)
  • "both commented that the song continued the themes featured on Rihanna's previous album, Rated R" - The Cinquemani review actually describes the song as a showcase of "the R-rated Rihanna". This is a censorship/age concept, not actually relating to Rated R. For the Conner review, please elaborate on how elements of Rated R are continued (boasting etc).
  • "James Skinner of BBC Music wrote that "S&M" lacked the "chart-friendly moments" of Rated R" - no he didn't: he was writing about the Loud album as a whole
  • "The song the second-biggest selling urban single of 2011 in the UK" - be careful about the use of "urban". I know what you mean, but technically it means a radio format. Perhaps describe it as the "second-biggest selling R&B or hip hop single"?
  • NZ Singles Chart ref (currently #53) takes me to the old site. Please amend to a direct link that chart at the new site.
  • "In the issue of Billboard published on April 30, 2011, the album version of "S&M" and its official remix featuring Spears sold a combined total of 293,000 downloads" - this doesn't actually make sense. You mean in the week preceding the publication of this issue, right?
  • "Rihanna became the quickest solo artist to achieve the record" - what record? Slightly confusing
  • "In the final scene, she lies on a newsroom desk, a smiley face over one eye and a Rolling Stones tongue logo over her mouth" - with a smiley face? There should probably be a citation to verify the Rolling Stones tongue logo.

Adabow (talk) 11:38, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mostly done - we'll follow up on the last couple shortly. Many thanks Adabow: your time and efforts are much appreciated. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 12:46, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Is there information on what happened in the Paulus case?

Many thanks for your further comments, Adabow. I think we've covered all these now, but please let us know if there are any we have missed, or any new points you'd like looked into. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 23:24, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Very good work; I'm nearly there. Just the Billboard refs, BPI cert and the clarification of the single/album "versions" to go. Adabow (talk) 23:41, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
All now corrected. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:23, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorted the silver certification. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 11:01, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's great, many thanks Adabow. You've spent a lot of time on this and we appreciate it hugely: the article is much tighter than it was previously, with the consistent sources a massive improvement. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 07:32, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Hamiltonstone

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I think I recall giving this a fairly hard time in its eighth FAC :-) Looking better. Still have some questions.

  • "Instrumentation" is referred to twice in the second para of the concept section. I just about get it the first time, though I would have thought it would refer to "instrumental parts" perhaps. But the second reference eludes me ("All instrumentation was completed by Eriksen, Hermansen and Vee"). What is meant by "instrumentation" being "completed"?
  • On a related subject, the same word crops up, hyperlinked, in the next section. Has anyone clicked on that link? I did and laughed. Were you meaning to pipe it somewhere??
  • Source check and nitpick: "Rihanna first performed "S&M" at the BRIT Awards on February 15, 2011, as part of a medley,..." I checked both citations and could find nothing regarding this being a "first" performance. One of those cites is also the reference for this: "Rihanna performed one verse and one chorus from "S&M", in between shortened versions of "Only Girl (in the World)" and "What's My Name?"". The source certainly indicates there was a medley of those three works, but don't think i could find a reference to "one verse and one chorus". Source says "But for her stage show, she changed into a red hooded dress to perform a three-song medley...Rihanna performed a routine to The Only Girl In The World, What's My Name and S&M..."
    • That was the first time she performed it then, as she had never performed it before. If she had of performed it before the BRITs, then it would be in the section labelled as her first performance. I've removed the bit about them being shortened works.  — AARON • TALK 15:58, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise looks pretty good. I don't normally review popular music articles, and I don't know if all the tables of data at the end are standard, but assuming they are, I'm probably close to supporting, once someone's done some other source checking.hamiltonstone (talk) 12:11, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support, thank you for following those up. hamiltonstone (talk) 00:21, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for all your time and efforts here: this is certainly much stronger for your input. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:20, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Squeamish Ossifrage

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Many thanks Cass: much obliged!, as always - SchroCat (talk) 18:23, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate's comment - Did we ever get round to spotchecks for verification and close-paraphrasing? If not, I would like to see some before closing. Graham Colm (talk) 21:54, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Graham, there have been some cursory verification checks done, but Tim riley has succumbed to arm-twisting and pleading and has kindly agreed to do this for us. - SchroCat (talk) 16:05, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Quick comment – apologies that I won't be able to do a thorough review, but the repetition of "song" in the intro's first paragraph kinda gets to you.

"'S&M' is a song by Barbadian recording artist Rihanna from her fifth studio album, Loud (2010). The song was released on January 21, 2011, as the fourth single from the album. The American songwriter Ester Dean wrote the song in collaboration with the song's producers Stargate and Sandy Vee."

Maybe this could be amended? Best, —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 01:55, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tweaked - SchroCat (talk) 07:44, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Spot checks
  • 6a – fine
  • 6b – fine
  • 6c – fine
  • 6d – fine
  • 6e – fine
  • 16a – fine
  • 16b – fine
  • 26 – fine
  • 36a – fine
  • 36b – fine
  • 46a – fine
  • 46b – fine
  • 56a – fine
  • 56b – fine
  • 66 – fine
  • 76 – fine
  • 86a – fine
  • 86b – fine
  • 86c – fine
  • 96 – fine
  • 106 – fine
  • 116 – fine
  • 126 – fine
  • 136 – not on the page the link takes me to, as far as I can see
    • It had been moved from Billboard to Music Canada, which is the new source for info, so I've changed it to that.  — ₳aron
  • 146 – fine
  • 156 – fine

Quotations duly acknowledged. No problem with close paraphrasing. – Tim riley (talk) 16:22, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks  — ₳aron 16:27, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks, Tim: very much appreciated indeed. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 16:31, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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