User talk:The Four Deuces/Archives/2014/August

gaza RFC

Did you not see the multiple secondary sources I included in the RFC connecting the dots?

• Newsweek : "Another video published on the site shows Sami Abu Zuhri, the Hamas spokesman in Gaza, encouraging people to use their bodies as human shields to further deter IDF strikes.".
• USA Today "Netanyahu says Hamas is using civilians as human shields. The Israel Defense Forces issued photographs on its blog Tuesday showing a crowd of people, including children, on a building's roof after Israel urged that it be evacuated.The blog also shows a July 15 video clip of Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri commending people for ignoring Israeli warnings. "The fact that people are willing to sacrifice themselves against Israeli warplanes in order to protect their homes, I believe this strategy is proving itself," Abu Zuhri said.
• WSJ "Earlier this month Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri appeared on Al-Aqsa TV and encouraged Gaza residents to act as human shields."
• Herald Sun "Again, Hamas knows that, which is perhaps why its spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri boasted on Al Aqsa TV on July 8 that Hamas’s tactic of using civilians as human shields “has been proven effective”."
• Asian Age "The Israeli Defence Forces, which circulated a video of Hamas spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhri encouraging the use of human shields, said that Hamas is instructing Gazan population to climb rooftops and protect its terrorists."
• TimesHerald (reprint of USA today)
• Washington Post "The Hamas spokesman, Sami Abu Zuhri, admitted July 8 that Hamas was using the Palestinians as human shields and that this had has proven to be effective."
• channel4 "Actually Hamas has made no secret of advocating the use of civilians as human shields to try to face down Israeli aggression.A senior spokesman for the group, Sami Abu Zuhri, gave an interview on Palestinian station al-Aqsa TV earlier this month."

Gaijin42 (talk) 19:42, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

To take one example, what you say was a statement by the Washington Post is in fact a commentary written by an advisor to Netanyahu and published in the Washington Post. It is not a reliable source for saying that the text from Hamas proves they admit using human shields. TFD (talk) 19:53, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Nobody is proposing to say (in wikipedia's voice) Hamas has admitted to using shields. The current text in the article says that(paraphrase) " as part of their allegation of use of human shields, Israel points to quote X" . You objection to Wapo is noted, but there are a great number more sources. In anay case, I am more than open to suggestions as to the right way to present this quote, but when this many RS have discussed it, specifically in the context of human shields, it seems like WP:OR objections about what the quote really means, and that it must not be mentioned at all should give way to following the sources?

• Globe and Mail "Hamas openly encourages civilians to act as human shields. Here’s what Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri had to say recently on Al-Aqsa TV (via the Middle East Media Research Institute): “This attests to the character of our noble, jihad-fighting people, who defend their rights and their homes with their bare chests and their blood … We in Hamas call upon our people to adopt this policy in order to protect the Palestinian homes.”"
• LA Times "Against this Israeli effort, Hamas employed a counter-strategy of trying to prevent civilians from heeding Israeli warnings. On July 8, Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri appeared on local television and called on Gazans to serve as human shields against Israeli air attacks."
• Time "What makes Hamas’ actions a double war crime is that they target civilians in Israel while exploiting civilians in Gaza and using them as human shields.Hamas is building its terror command centers and weapons storage facilities among schools, hospitals and mosques, showing no regard for civilian lives. Israel’s concerted efforts to avoid harming uninvolved civilians have been well documented. Hamas instructs the people in Gaza to ignore Israel’s phone calls, leaflets and text messages, warning civilians of pending attacks against terrorists. Knowingly, they put Palestinians in harm’s way turning them into propaganda tools.Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said in a television interview earlier this month, “the fact that people are facing Israeli warplanes bare-chested to protect their homes, I believe this procedure has proved its efficiency. And we in the Hamas movement call on our people to adopt this procedure.”

Gaijin42 (talk) 19:59, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Titles related to socialist cults of personality

I was adding this article to AfD at the same time and as a result created a second AfD discussion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Titles related to socialist cults of personality. I'm not sure what to do. I've never discussed to articles for deletion at the same time. Tchaliburton (talk) 20:05, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

There are instructions at WP:AfD. Normally they should be created at the same time. I think it is best to discuss the deletions together as they are basically the same article with two names. So I would delete your new AfD. TFD (talk) 20:15, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Relevant discussions

Judging by your recent participation in very similar discussions (in fact equivalent, but for another country), you may be interested in these: Talk:South_Yemen#Its_name, Talk:China#Single-party_state_too_socialist_republic.2Fstate Talk:North_Korea#Rfc:Is_north_korea_a_single_party_state_and_should_it_be_described_as_such.3F. Regards. Zozs (talk) 21:37, 24 August 2014 (UTC)