Thadson

Question for administrator - Inconsistencies in page linking

{{admin help}} I disagree with the linking of Attila directly to Attila the Hun. Attila is first and foremost a first name. There are many famous Attilas that could be mentioned (and are mentioned in wikipedia), and Attila "the name" deserves a full page by itself. I was told that an average (and uneducated person) wouldn't be able to find Attila the Hun if Attila was not directly linked there. (This sound by itself a pretty tunnel visioned opinion that not just tolerates, but actually promotes uneducation and dumbness.)

Following the same thought process, the linking of Alexander should be directed to Alexander the Great because "he is the most known Alexander..."

Attila the Hun is "Attila the Hun", and NOT "Attila". That Attila the Hun is the most important interpretation of Attila is somewhat debatable and very subjective.

In the case of Alexander, I could argue that "Alexander the Great" was the most important "Alexander", and most people would want to look for him when looking for Alexander, so it should be linked similarly as Attila is right now.

Instead the problem is solved rather elegantly right there in the first paragraph. I believe Attila should be linked similarly to the linking of Alexander to Alexander "the name" and not directly to Attila the Hun.

I do not subscribe to the notion that because some people are uneducated and may have difficulty finding a particular article, Wikipedia should be dumb-ed down to their level.

I also think that correct words that are not typos and have their own meaning (like atilla) should be linked to their own pages instead of a similar word that we think the user was "maybe" looking for. Then the page could be properly marked with "if you were looking for .... disambiguation"...

So why Attila and Alexander are linked differently, and what would be a unifying or rather a standardizing soulution? --Thadson (talk) 18:04, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Thadson. You need to focus on the relevant policies and considerations, which as a new user you're probably unaware of: Wikipedia:Article titles in general and specifically its subsection policy on common names, and from the wider disambiguation policy, the primary topic policy section. The underlying issue to focus on is maximizing reader's ease in finding the topic they expect to find when searching for a topic. When a person types Attila into the search engine are they looking for the name Atilla or Attila the Hun, and is it true most of the time as to which is being looked for? In order to find out we have some tests we can apply, such as how often people look at one page or the other, how often reliable sources use one and not the other such that it's likely people searching will also be looking for one and not the other.

If the majority of people typing in Attila are looking for Attila the Hun then Attila should link to the page in him. If the majority of people typing in Attila are looking for it as a name then Attila should link to the page on the name (currently at Attila (name)). And if it's a wash, its split between other uses of Attila, then the main title "Attila" should be a disambiguation page. The current situation is that implicitly Attila the Hun is considered the primary topic for Atilla, and all other people who type just Atilla and end up at the article on him who were looking for something else will have to access it through the hatnote at the article that links to Attila (disambiguation).

Okay, that's the playing field; so is Attila the Hun the primary topic? I think it's fairly clear he is. I base this on looking at article traffic statistics as one metric: the disambiguation page had 8,608 page views in the past 90 days; the article on the name had 1,243 views and by contrast, Attila the Hun had 51,066 views, and taking a survey of reliable sources on the other: A search of Google books for just Attila shows 3,180,000 results, while a search of Attila excluding Hun or Huns shows the results diminish to 1,840,000, thus indicating that at a least 1,340,000 of the results overall are for Attila the Hun. I then looked at the remaining results and see they are all over the map and many of them are actually still referring to Attila the Hun even if they don't use "Hun" so the search excluder didn't pick them up, and none I see are about the name.

A question you didn't ask here but you might have is what is the process for requesting a change in title? What you do is follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Requested moves. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:49, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Fuhghettaboutit. Could you provide similar statistics for Alexander vs. Alexander the Great. I would think this topic would be in a similar situation that you just explained about Attila, and if so, then shouldn't Alexander be linked to Alexander the great instead of Alexander the name? Thadson (talk) 12:53, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Your request is not, strictly speaking, a concern that requires admin attention. Page view statistics are accessable in the header of the article's revision history. You may leave a talkback notice (see Template:Talkback) on User:Fuhghettaboutit's talk page if you desire their reply. Alexander is a common name used in English where Atilla is not. That is one possible explanation. The venue for that discussion is WP:MOSNAME or the article talk page. Regards Tiderolls 21:04, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Hungarian playing cards

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Adoption

I saw from your userpage you're looking for a user to adopt you; I'm currently looking for adoptees, so if you're interested drop me a line on my talk page :). Thanks! Ironholds 21:31, 2 July 2008 (UTC) Well the info isn't really hard to find. The idea is that if someone searches for attila, they will most likely mean the Hun. For those who dont there's a ""Attila" redirects here. For other uses, see Attila (disambiguation)" right at the top of the page so it's the first thing they see :). The only alternative would to have the disambiguation page as the Attila page, and I think it's felt that would cause unneccesary head-scratching for people who want to see the Hun article. And sure, any questions you have, suggestions or anything you want suggested, drop me a line. While it isn't a high priority or related to the adoption, I also do userpage and signature design if you're interested. Regards, Ironholds 22:28, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

That makes total sense. However it encourages people to spell the name wrong and never notice that what they spell is incorrect. If we would search for attila, which is 2 Ts and 1 L, then yes, lets link to Attila the Hun (even though I still have a small objection to that, as in my alexander exapmle) However if someone types atilla with 1T and 2 Ls, then it should properly point to the famous hussar army coat, and maybe there should be a link on top that says "If you are looking for Attila the Hun, which properly spelled with 2 Ts and 1 L, then click here." Maybe i'm just too much a perfectionist, but isn't the point of an Encyclopedia to collect and then disseminate knowledge? We would not want to list "sun" an object in the sky with "son" offspring together, right? So should we not list "attila" the name and "atilla" the cloth together. Thanks Thadson (talk) 22:55, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I think the point is that unlike son/sun, attila and atilla are kind of easy to mix up; it's not exactly a word in common usage. I understand what you're saying, and I am pretty much a perfectionist myself, but the problem is this: the encyclopedia is meant to be the sum of all human knowledge accessible to all humans; not everyone has the level of education or is in the situation (for example, dyslexia) to get it right first time round. In addition, I think there's the same reasoning as for the Attila page; people who go to atilla are more likely to be looking for the hun than the coat. Ironholds 01:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

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