Serendipityrules

Help and advice on how to improve on the Manchester Grammar School article gratefully received.Serendipityrules (talk) 16:03, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

My name is Simon Duffy and I am a regular user of Wikipedia. I have been a teacher at the Manchester Grammar School in Manchester since September 1985 and am currently the Head of the Computing Department. I make all edits in a personal capacity not as an agent of MGS, and if any Wikipedian feels that an edit I have made is controversial they should revert it and flag it up on the talkpage which other Wikipedians are watching. One of my main aims is to improve the contents and quality of the article about Manchester Grammar School using Norwich School (independent school) as a model. I was a biology teacher at Norwich School between 1981 and 1985.Serendipityrules (talk) 08:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Manchester Grammar School

Thank you so much for posing the question, and being willing to take on the task.

What are we trying to achieve

If you study other articles of a similar nature you can gain a lot of experience very quickly. In MGSs case- I looked for Headmasters Conferences schools with a bit of form, and found Norwich School (independent school)- a modest little establishment with a history dating back to 1096. This one is incredibly useful as it has reached Good article status- so it has come under a lot of scrutiny- and anything they have done can be used as precedent explaining your actions in the edit summary. The edit summary is almost as important as main space edit.

Conflict of interest

Yes you have a clear substantive financial interest in this article, but this does not prevent you from editing 'non- controversial edits' but according to my reading of the rules providing you exercise care.

1. Put a statement on your userpage and talkpage- Saying that who you are, and who your employer is. Say you are editing in a personal capacity not as an agent of MGS, and if any Wikipedian feels that an edit you have made is controversial they should revert it and flag it up on the talkpage which other Wikipedians are watching. Say you aim is to improve the contents and quality of the MGS using Saying that who you are, and who your employer is. Say you are editing in a personal capacity not as an agent of MGS, and if any Wikipedian feels that an edit you have made is controversial they should revert it and flag it up on the talkpage which other Wikipedians are watching. Say you aim is to improve the contents and quality of the MGS using Norwich School (independent school) as a model.

• I have now done this as suggested. In a surreal twist of fate I feel I need to reveal that between 1981 and 1985 I was a biology teacher at Norwich School.Serendipityrules (talk) 13:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

1. Put a similar statement on the Talk:Manchester Grammar School, saying in a edit. In response to invitation this on Talk:Manchester Grammar School I contacted User:ClemRutter to say that I willing to help, Say who you are, and who your employer is. Say you are editing in a personal capacity not as an agent of MGS, and if any Wikipedian feels that an edit you have made is controversial they should revert it and flag it up on the talkpage which other Wikipedians are watching. Say you aim is to improve the contents and quality of the MGS using Norwich School (independent school) as a model.

• I have now done this as suggested.Serendipityrules (talk) 13:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Having done that you have demonstrated that you are squeaky clean- and should be OK adding references through out the text, you should be OK on facts historical, description of buildings- addition of names of staff or alumni- though should steer clear of adjectives that could be seen as being promotional. If challenged you refer back to having followed the advice on this page, and as the MGS talk page is being watched- other Wikipedians will then join battle. Above post what you are doing in the edit summary.

If it is promotional then it is a CoI. Adding statistics that show excellence- which in turn could persuade someone to direct their oik in the schools direction is CoI. Put it for discussion on the talk page.

If you think that the CoI is too strong- then it is so discuss it on the talk page and invite someone else to copy it across.

Verifiable sources

In state-schools, each pupil is issued with a Pupil Planner(Secondary Source) that reports on the school's operational details and policies (Primary Sources). This is a rich source of references. I have more problems with the Staff Handbook- unless it is widely issued to supply staff I can't see it has been published, but then I would call that a secondary source. I need more time to consider the two websites you mention- as I haven't resolved whether it would be a circular reference or self- publishing.

• http://www.mgscentral.org is the official school Virtual Learning Environment website. So long as information on mgscentral does not use or cite the Wikipedia article about Manchester Grammar School as a source then using mgscentral as a cited source of reliable information on Wikipedia would not be circular . Information that a business publishes about itself online is both a primary source and self-publishing - and can be used with suitable care as a source. Apologies in advance if I am misinterpreting the rules.Serendipityrules (talk) 12:29, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

General tips

It is better to edit other sites as well- Fellow HMC schools, or location articles using references from the MEN- then you are not seen as a single site editor and this gains street cred. Get used to using {{sfn}} and {{efn}} for referencing. I will ask two experienced admins to look at the advice I have given; so we can be sure I haven't missed anything. -- Clem Rutter (talk) 01:43, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

WPSCH

Hi. Most of what you need to know about making school articles is at WP:WPSCH, but there is a lot of other useful information on the other project pages too. For examples of good UK school articles, see Hanley Castle Grammar School and Malvern College. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:39, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Dead links

Further to the excellent advice offered above; you don't need to worry about "existing citations that no longer work as the main school website has been changed". You can append {{Dead link}} to them; and you might find an archive copy in the Wayback Machine, but they're still acceptable citations as they stand. See WP:DEADLINK for further guidance. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 07:51, 28 January 2015 (UTC)