User talk:Onecanadasquarebishopsgate/Archive1

Micronation contributions

Hi. I note with interest some of your contributions to Sealand-related articles. It would be a good idea if you floated some of your ideas over at the Wikiproject Micronations, as I'm sure we'd benefit from your input. This would also help avoid any mistaken perceptions of single-purpose or POV editing. --Gene_poole 23:08, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Micronation symbols graphics

Wherever appropriate I suggest you source flags etc from the relevant micronation website, upload them to WP, and add them to the article infobox per existing similar articles. Just be sure to add the appropriate fair use tags when you upload such images to WP, or else the file may be deleted. If you look at the tagging on the flag for Independent State of Rainbow Creek here you'll see what I mean. In the case of most micronations, it is safe to assume that the micronation owner is the copyright owner of the flag, COA or seal design. --Gene_poole 06:54, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

GDP

Can you confirm where the GDP figure for Sealand came from? Unless it's from a reliable third party source my view is that we should remove it (likewise, from any other micronation articles). That sort of data cannot be verified unless the micronation's accounts are publicly available. --Gene_poole 12:04, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The GDP figure for the Principality of Sealand came from here [1], the Spanish estate agents company thats in a business contract with Sealand. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 12:11, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Given that they're acting for Sealand, they're not classifiable a reliable third party source. The field should properly be renamed to "Stated GDP"or "Claimed GDP" (or words to that effect), linked to the above citation, and (in this case) identified as being data from a secondary source. Your work on bringing this article up to FA standard is commendable - keep it up! --Gene_poole 06:43, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Here is another website showing the GDP of Sealand. [2] This is from the Summit of Micronations 2003. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 18:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

This one looks like a secondary source re-publishing a first-person document authored by someone from Sealand. I don't think including either of the above sources is a problem - we just need to tag it/them appropriately, otherwise people will inevitably question their veracity. For more info about citing sources see WP:CITE and WP:SOURCE. --Gene_poole 22:31, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

If your analysis correct I think the best solution is to quote Sealand directly, if possible, and state it as "claimed". Secondary sources which merely parrot as truth what the primary source claims are not very helpful - indeed they can be downright misleading. --kingboyk 13:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Sealand coin images

I think that the tag you selected could be the right one to use. Take a look at the tagging of the coin picture at Nation of Celestial Space for comparison - that one I know is correct. The Imperial Collection website and all images on it are my personal property. I have no issues with any of the images on the site being uploaded to WP. --Gene_poole 02:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I am not a lawyer, but photographs of coins which don't involve any particular artistic input from the photographer are likely the copyright of the coinmaker. As such, {{Non-free currency}} seems to be the right choice indeed. --kingboyk (talk) 13:27, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

My recent edits on Principality of Sealand

Sorry!

I didn't look close enough to see what was going on and I realize I reverted some of your good edits. My mistake.

Peace! SWik78 (talk) 21:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Mediation request - rejection

The matter has only one possible resolution: you must comply fully and immediately with WP content policies by ceasing to promote a POV that is unsupported by either reliable third party sources or consensus. There is nothing to mediate, and nothing further to discuss. --Gene_poole (talk) 01:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Request for mediation not accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Principality of Sealand. For the Mediation Committee, WjBscribe 00:30, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management.
If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.

How to Avoid Disruption

Hello. This may not be your intention, but your recent activities have had the effect of disrupting Wikipedia. Within a short space of time, you have complained in multiple venues without giving each process a chance to run. Examples: [3][4][5][6]

User:Gene Poole may have been hasty to characterize your edit as vandalism, but your overreaction and accusations against him are unhelpful. Restraint would be more productive. Would you be willing to retract your request for arbitration, and instead allow the simpler forms of dispute resolution to be used? I would be happy to speak with Gene Poole and counsel him on better ways to interact with other users. Some of his points are valid, but he should be more diplomatic.

Please understand that Wikipedia is not to be used as a soapbox for advocacy. Whenever you write about a potentially controversial topic, such as micronations, you must observe all of Wikipedia's content policies and guidelines, including verifiability, use of reliable sources, observing neutral point of view, not giving undue weight, no original research, and avoiding fringe theories. Edits like this one are against policy. If that sort of editing continues, a Wikipedia administrator may eventually need to restrict your editing privileges to protect the encyclopedia.

I hope you will withdraw the request for arbitration. You are welcome to contact me for help at any time for help or clarification. Jehochman ^Talk 14:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I am moving this here from my talk page to keep the conversation in one place. Jehochman ^Talk 19:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, after editing Wikipedia for approximately two months I can see that that edit was against policy. The reason why I used all those steps in the dispute resolution process quickly was because Gene Poole would not cooperate with the process - so I used request for arbitration as a last step.

I could withdraw the request for arbitration, but the dispute needs to be resolved:

As editors have said before on Sealand's discussion page, Sealand articles need to be based on another article in a similar situation. Another editor and I think Empire of Atlantium should be that article - it states that the group considers itself a microstate, yet it has been called a micronation, and it hasn't had the problems that the Sealand article has. This does not have to be an official policy, but it could be a convention.

Gene Poole needs to discuss rather than attack opinions, and he also needs to stop commenting on the contributor. Also his last edit stated that Sealand considers itself both a sovereign state and a micronation - which is definitely not true. He then said that I would be reported if I changed it back again - this edit needs to be changed.

I have no intention of disrupting Wikipedia - it's just that Gene Poole needs to cooperate and be more diplomatic. If you could speak with Gene Poole and counsel him on better ways to interact with other users, and help me organise this convention, then I will agree to use this convention and I will withdraw the request for arbitration.

This seems to be a simple and effective solution. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate (talk) 17:34, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

This sounds good. If you follow my advice, I will do my best to ensure that User:Gene Poole does not cause any further problems. My feeling is that if we uphold rigorous standards of sourcing and verifiability for these articles, the content disputes will be resolved. I do not think Empire of Atlantium is a good example to copy. Instead, I would like to look at several good and featured articles with you to show how to do the best possible work on Wikipedia. Give me a bit of time to find suitable examples. Meanwhile, please ask to withdraw your request, and feel free to come to me with any immediate problems you experience with the other user. I will be online frequently. Jehochman ^Talk 19:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and the request has been withdrawn. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate (talk) 20:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Withdrawing request

I see you intend to withdraw the request. Instead of deleting the section, please post a note at the bottom of your section saying that you would like to withdraw the request. I will endorse that, and then one of the clerks will delete it. This is a better process. Thank you, and I appreciate your cooperation. Jehochman ^Talk 20:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Micronations

Would you be willing to look through the micronations articles and grade them? I see you are a member of Wikipedia:WikiProject Micronations. If you look at Talk:Micronation you will see a template at the top with a grade. That template can be added to each micronation article in Category:Micronations. The grading scheme should have a legend that explains how to do the grading. I think this would be a valuable exercise to help clean up these articles, and also to help you learn more about how to improve the quality of articles. If articles are already grade, check if the grade should be raised or lowered. If the articles have any maintenance tags, see if you can identify the problems and fix them. Let me know if you have any questions. Jehochman ^Talk 21:22, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Atlantium

Sorry for butting in. Regarding the capital, it's always possible for a state to declare it's capital, even if that land is officially in someone else's territory. Somaliland has a capital, even though the capital and the country are still officially within the territory of Somalia. Most micronations that have a "capital" have it within what is generally thought to be someone else's territory. John Carter (talk) 23:50, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Your contributions

I'm pleased to hear that you've decided to comply with WP editing and civility policies. You'll find it a lot easier to get along with people here if you continue doing so.

If you have any questions about Atlantium its best to email information@atlantium.org --Gene_poole (talk) 23:55, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Micronation

Hi. The changes you made to this template after September 20, 2007 [7] seems to have inserted five or more blank lines at the top of every article using the template. Can you please fix this? Thanks. —Viriditas | Talk 14:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I think I figured it out. It's the parameters themselves in the article itself. If you fill all of them out, it works. Copy them over from the template and try it for yourself. —Viriditas | Talk 15:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Just tried it again in preview mode, and it works perfectly. The problem is that the template documentation doesn't include all the parameters. So when you copied it over, you missed a few. That should be fixed. Missing params include gdp, location, ethnicgroups, timezone, demonym, and purpCurrency. Once you add those it works. —Viriditas | Talk 15:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Now all you have to do is fill them in. Try adding dummy data and image (to location) and you'll see for yourself. —Viriditas | Talk 16:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Leave His Majesty a message on his talk page and he'll get back to you. —Viriditas | Talk 16:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Micronation

Hi, I have edited the template above and now for some reason it has created five blank lines on every article with that template. I haven't really edited many templates, could you please have a look at the template and see what is wrong?

Thanks ----- Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 14:47, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Problem solved ----- Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 16:21, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I fixed the problem. If the conditional contents are in the format of

{{#if:condition1|then|else}}
{{#if:condition2|then|else}}
{{#if:condition3|then|else}}
...

and if multiple consecutive conditions evaluate to false, then you get multiple blank lines. I changed them to

{{#if:condition1|then|else}}{{#if:
condition2|then|else}}{{#if:
condition3|then|else}}
...

then the blank lines are effectively removed.

I also created a sandbox and test cases according to Wikipedia:Template test cases. This way, real articles are shielded from any experimental change. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 16:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Good job. Next time I try and fix a template, I'll follow your example and refrain from doing it live. So that explains why filling in all the fields did not leave blank lines, but failing to fill in all of them did? —Viriditas | Talk 16:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Peer review request

I'm afraid I'm too busy right now to help with additional peer reviews. Good luck with the article, though, and remember in the future to provide a link to the article when you approach editors with such requests. Cheers! – Scartol • Tok 01:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Onecanadasquare. I am somewhat familiar with Sealand and the concept of Micronations, so I will try to do some research on the topic and give the article a read some time this week. --JayHenry (talk) 05:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Empire of Atlantium

Hey, just wanted to let you know that I've added some comments at the Peer Review. Feel free to contact me. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:27, 30 January 2008 (UTC)