User talk:MathKnight/Archives4

Archives of User Talk:MathKnight from September 20, 2005, 2004 to December 21, 2007

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Hebrew and English Wikipedias

החברים שלך בוויקיפדיה העברית שונאים את ויקיפדיה האנגלית. אולי תאמר להם לתקן את הטעויות בוויקיפדיה האנגלית במקום לצחוק עליה בגללן. Toya 16:57, 20 September 2005 (UTC) אני פורש מוויקיפדיה האנגלית. Toya 18:26, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

You could tell them this yourself. MathKnight 19:33, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Israeli West Bank barrier

Hi MathKnight, I have noticed that you have edited in the past regarding Israeli casualties during the conflict. I have an edit conflict with User:Zeq regarding the Israeli West Bank barrier where he is insisting that my version is not NPOV and his version is. I think the two are very similar, but he has a lot of redundancy, bad English, deletion of phrases that balance things out or put things in context, and has an agenda against the Palestinian Negotiations Affairs Department which has published the Palestinian official response to the barrier. The only problem with my version is the section on the effects of the barrier on Israeli security. Could you possible take a look at the article - preferably my version :) - and add to that section? I do not have enough statistics to have a coherent section on the reduction of Israeli casualties, and that section is much shorter than the "Effects on Palestinians" section. If you have the desire or the time to take a look, that would be great. It would also be nice to have your take on comparing the two versions, most other editors seem to have left it to me to tackle User:Zeq. Thank you. Ramallite ^(talk) 14:55, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

The current version is far too different then your old one. I suggest you work your changes from there. Try to use the TalkPage to explain your changes. Since I seldom visit here recently (I far too much work in the domestic), I can't much of an help here. MathKnight 19:01, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Please vote

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Ramallite Zeq 20:08, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

ואהבת לרעך כמוך - רבי עקיבא?

ואהבת לרעך כמוך זה פסוק מויקרא (יט יח), שרבי עקיבא בסך הכל ציין אותו כ"כלל גדול בתורה". בברכה, אחיה פ.

I have already corrected this at English. I guess I forgot to this in Hebrew. Thanks for the notice. MathKnight 17:03, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Rejection of Tanakh

Hi MathKnight: Please see and vote at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 December 12#Category:Hebrew Bible at [1] where it is being suggested that the word "Tanakh" is "not neutral", and I am trying to explain to them that it is in keeping with NPOV to convey the way Judaism uses certain terms to describe the Hebrew Bible/Tanakh. Thanks. IZAK 18:34, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Nice work

Nice work with אוסצילטור הרמוני קוונטי. Regards, El_C 03:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. To be honest, I must note I based heavily on the English article, translate most of it and added explaination where I deemed neccesary. MathKnight 17:57, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Coastal Road Massacre images

Hello MathKnight. I uploaded your images from he:פיגוע כביש החוף to Coastal Road massacre. Please modify the image licensing to clear any doubts, because apparently there is some question about it (see User_talk:Altmany#Image:1978-bus-attack01.jpg_listed_for_deletion). Apparently, you're not allowed to restrict your license to free educational websites. Thanks. altmany 17:35, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I answered you on the talk page. If it is any good, I give explicit premission to use them on Wikipedia and noted so on their description pages. MathKnight 19:09, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Please see NV's answer in my talk page about the specific copyright to use. altmany 08:12, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Image:Longbus01.jpg

Hello, the image Image:Longbus01.jpg says you created it, if that's true, can you take a look at it and see what sort of license you want to give it? If you need any help picking one (Wikipedia:Image copyright tags) or something just leave me a message :D - cohesion★talk 07:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

The license is fine, as long I'm attributed and credited for the picture. MathKnight 23:05, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Arbitration Committee elections

Hi, this is just to let you know that User:Jayjg is standing for the arbitration committee, and that the elections end on Sunday, January 22 at 7 pm Eastern Standard Time. In case you haven't voted and have any interest, his nomination page is at http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_January_2006/Vote/Jayjg My vote was discounted because apparently I don't have enough edits, but I noticed there seems to be a campaign against him, and some of the votes against him look pretty crazy, so he needs some more support. Pintele Yid 08:04, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

hebrew wikipedia image

Are you the MathKnight who uploaded this image into Hebrew Wikipedia? If so, could you please translate the source and copyright information into this copy of the image that I copied into English Wikipedia? Thanks, Prodego ^talk 20:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

This image was contributed to the Hebrew Wikipedia by an Israeli website called http://www.israeli-weapons.com/ . The license and usage conditions were not much detailed but they did asked credit for the usage. MathKnight 20:36, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Could you please place the correct copyright tab on Image:F-15I.jpg? Prodego ^talk 22:25, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I am not an expert for copyrights and a specially not to all the new image tags that sprunge on the EnWiki like mushrums after rain. MathKnight 19:34, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Nice analogy ;-), what are the exact 'license and usage conditions'? I don't see any information about copyright status on http://www.israeli-weapons.com/ Prodego ^talk 19:43, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Roller-compactor -- move to "Road roller"?

Please see User talk:WikiDon#Roller-compactor: suggested move to "Road roller" (WikiDon is the first Roller-compactor contributor).

TIA, RickP 20:46, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Moved, and disambig created for roller-compactor. RickP 22:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:D9-idf pic556.jpg

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading Image:D9-idf pic556.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use {{GFDL}} to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as {{Non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. No license. Nv8200p talk 21:21, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Details were given. It is used with premission by the author. MathKnight 21:30, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:D9R-idf.jpg

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading Image:D9R-idf.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use {{GFDL}} to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as {{Non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you.

Saying "taken from Hebrew Wikipedia" is not good enough. Need original source and proper copyright tag in English on En:Wikipedia image description page Nv8200p talk 21:23, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

lots of edits, not an admin

Hi - I made a list of users who've been around long enough to have made lots of edits but aren't admins. If you're at all interested in becoming an admin, can you please add an '*' immediately before your name in this list? I've suggested folks nominating someone might want to puruse this list, although there is certainly no guarantee anyone will ever look at it. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 18:32, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind being an admin, as I am already a SysOp on the Hebrew Wikipedia. However, I must be honest and note I spent most of my times there and my actvity here have declined sharply, though I'm still making edits once in a while. MathKnight 19:44, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Please check your WP:NA entry

Greetings, editor! Your name appears on Wikipedia:List of non-admins with high edit counts. If you have not done so lately, please take a look at that page and check your listing to be sure that following the particulars are correct:

1. If you are an admin, please remove your name from the list.
2. If you are currently interested in being considered for adminship, please be sure your name is in bold; if you are opposed to being considered for adminship, please cross out your name (but do not delete it, as it will automatically be re-added in the next page update).
3. Please check to see if you are in the right category for classification by number of edits.

Thank you, and have a wiki wiki day! bd2412 T 03:42, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Machsom Watch

Just to let you know, your edit was reverted by Zero on the basis that the 'attack' was unsources (and later Zeq's sourced re-addition was deleted on the basis that Arutz Sheva is not a respectable source). I am now arguing with Zero about it, please have a look. Your input would be appreciated. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 11:21, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the notice, I took care of that. MathKnight 13:05, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Do you consider yourself a party to this issue ?

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation#Machsom_Watch Zeq 15:17, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Depends on what the controersy is about. I was involved in YNET-link contraversy which I see was solved. The current version of the article is OK to me, so I would like to know what is the contraversy. MathKnight 22:55, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

take another look please Zeq 11:09, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I see no major problems in this version. If you see some, please tell me so I can check it further. MathKnight 12:53, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Soursob / חמציץ נטוי

Mathknight, the he: interwiki link you put on the Oxalis pes-caprae article (חמציץ) appears to be about Oxalis in general, not the specific species. Shouldn't the interviki link be (חמציץ נטוי)? — Donama 15:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The Hebrew Wikipedia article חמציץ talks about חמציץ נטוי (Oxalis pes-caprae) only. So there is no problem about it. MathKnight 18:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Merkava-mkIII-LIC-pic06.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Merkava-mkIII-LIC-pic06.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 08:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:DanHalutz06.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:DanHalutz06.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{Non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Jkelly 20:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Copyright problems with Image:Ramallah-lynch01.jpg

An image that you uploaded, Image:Ramallah-lynch01.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Copyright problems because it is a suspected copyright violation. Please look there if you know that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), and then provide the necessary information there and on its page, if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

Deuterium 06:11, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

New_Historians: Hatchet-job edit

Your comments would be welcome at Talk:New_Historians#Hatchet-job edit. - Jmabel | Talk 18:21, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Cologne Cathedral Wiki1.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Cologne Cathedral Wiki1.jpg. Wikipedia gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 21:07, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

שלום ידידי

שלום לך ידידי

ניסתי לשלוח לך דואר דרך הוויקי העיברי אך לא מוגדר לך אחד

אני מקווה שאינך נשאבת לסיפור עלילות הדם של טיוי בארץ הוויקי העברית

אין זה משנה שהחליטו להשעות אותי אחרי שהודעתי שאני עוזב

אך אין זו סיבת פניתי איליך

לאחרונה החלטתי לעלות מיזם חדש שאינו בא להחליף את הוויקיפדיה אלה לתת מענה לצרכים שהיא לא רוצה ולא מוכנה לטפל בה

ואני מדבר כמובן על ערכי תרבות בכלל ותרבות פופולארית בפרט

אשמח אם אדם המבין ויודע להתעסק עם ממשק הויקפדיה בצורה טובה כמוך יעזור לי להפעיל ולהתניע את המיזם הזה

שוב אני מדגיש אין זה בא להחליף את ויקיפדיה ואין זה מצריך ממך להוריד את תרומתך באתר הזה

אך אשמח אם תיכנס למיזם החדש ותושיט יד http://culture.wiki.co.il/index.php

אתה יכול להשיג אותי במייל שלי TVeye79@gmail.com

או במסנגר TV_EYE79@HOTMAIL.COM

תודה מראש :)

לצערי אינני מבין בממשק ויקי ולא אוכל לעזור לך. MathKnight 11:25, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

אני אשמח גם אם תעזור ליצוק תוכן לערכי התרבות אצלנו כמובן שזה חס וחלילה לא בא על חשבון הערכים שלך בוויקיהעברית אלה בנוסף :)

Image:Right-left01.png

The above referenced image, which you claim to have created and released under PD, was used by me to create Image:Xyz_boxer.jpg, which is currently being looked at for copyvio issues. Can you please comment on where you got the original image at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images#November 16? Thanks. Dyfsunctional 18:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't remember. I think it was taken from a bank of free pictures. MathKnight 19:18, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The image is this one--a screenshot, and not free. I've asked Dyfsunctional if he's willing to create a replacement, but if you can (using a free image, perhaps from here) that would be great. In the meantime, I'll delete the image above, since it's unused. Thanks. Chick Bowen 20:53, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:Flail01.png

Could you please clarify the status of this image? In the source description, you state that it can only be used for educational purposes only. However, the tag states this: The following conditions must not include terms which restrict usage to educational or not-for-profit purposes or prohibit derivatives. Any license here needs to allow commercial usage of the image. Are you willing to license it for commercial usage? Hbdragon88 23:55, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

O.K. As long as credit is given. MathKnight 15:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Updated source description and retagged it as {{Attribution}}. Hbdragon88 02:56, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Your contact info

Hi MathKnight: You have not enabled your Wikipedia Email feature in your "my preferences" at the top of your user page. Sometimes editors overlook that when it's a useful way of staying in touch with other editors. Best wishes. IZAK 18:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:DanHalutz06.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:DanHalutz06.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

1. Go to the image description page and edit it to add {{Replaceable fair use disputed}}, without deleting the original Replaceable fair use template.
2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace the fair use image by finding a freely licensed image of its subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or a similar) image under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that any fair use images which are replaceable by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Chowbok ☠ 01:05, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Help with Hebrew to English Transliteration

Hello, I am searching for someone that would assist with an accurate translation of a Hebrew page of Israeli Military History on Wikipedia into English. Please email scottgs@bellsouth.net if you could help. I realize this may be the wrong place to ask, however I cannot seem to find another more appropriate forum. Thank you.

Untagged image

An image you uploaded, Image:Tag-handasa06.jpg, was tagged with the {{coatofarms}} copyright tag. This tag was deleted because it does not actually specify the copyright status of the image. The image may need a more accurate copyright tag, or it may need to be deleted. If the image portrays a seal or emblem, it should be tagged as {{seal}}. If you have any questions, ask them at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 01:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:ShabakLogo.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:ShabakLogo.gif. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 12:43, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

It's a seal of a governmental agency. MathKnight 14:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Image:Explosive-belt01.jpg

Re: Image:Explosive-belt01.jpg, did you create the scan yourself? Also someone is disputing the fair use assertion. Cheers, Fang Aili ^talk 16:31, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I scanned it myself from a police brochure distributed to civilian during the wave of terror Israel suffered in the last years. MathKnight 17:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Ambulance/Israeli military ambulance

Hi - I'm going through the ambulance page in an attetmpt to pull it up to featured article status, which of course includes chasing down references, etc. If I'm reading the page history correctly, the information regarding Israel's Merkava military ambulance was provided by you (ambulance#Military ambulances, last paragraph). I'd like to put in a citation for that, particularly for the deaths of the two soldiers at Palestinian hands after attempting to help a Palestinian woman; I don't suppose you remember where you found that info? Thanks --Badger151 18:50, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

As for the TankAmbulance, it was reported in the Hebrew media and as I didn't saved the articles\reports then I cannot find references. Maybe you can try searching "tankbulance" in Google (for example: [freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1672077/posts this]). As for the the two soldiers helping an old woman, it was again widely reported in the Israeli press. You can cite the Hebrew Wikipedia as reference. MathKnight 18:35, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Image and fair-use problems

Hello, I would like to request that you please gain a bit of familiarity with our fair use criteria before uploading or using any more fair use photos, as it seems you've been having some issues with this. For example, with the following photo, Image:D9R-idf.jpg, you seem to believe that "we're acting in accordance with its license" means "we can use it wherever we like". While a common misconception, that is not so. Any license which does not allow unrestricted use, copying, and modification, has a "non-commercial" only provision, or is "permission on Wikipedia only" is considered non-free and may only be used under very limited circumstances. (Provisions requiring attribution to the original photographer or source, or a "sharealike" clause requiring that copies or derivatives must remain under the same license as the original, are acceptable).

Fair-use photos, among other requirements, must be irreplaceable (that doesn't mean no photo currently exists that could serve the purpose, that means no photo possibly could exist which could serve the purpose!). Some examples of irreplaceable would be, for example, photos where no free alternative is available of a person who is deceased, an event which has already occurred and which is not planned again (or when our article is on that specific instance of it), or of a species of animal which is known to be extinct. The images also must serve a non-decorative purpose. For example, you used the shot in Armored bulldozer, when four free images are there in that article. There is certainly no need, in that case, for a fifth unfree image. The image must also be critical to discussing the subject in question. Usually, that means the image itself may be part of what's being covered in the article. If not, the image probably serves a decorative rather than critical purpose.

Hope that clears things up, and happy editing! Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 14:32, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Edit to Quake III Arena

Please do not add game-guide content to Wikipedia, as you did to Quake III Arena. Your recent edit has been reverted. --User:Krator (t c) 17:57, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Please

Please get your facts straight before you start a personal attack rumor. I don't know this guy, but if he is the same as Hapoelhaifa3 or whatever he goes by, then his edits are full of POV, doesn't use documentation (No personal research, right), and threatened to sue me. I have little interest in starting up with childish Israeli preteens, I am simply playing by the rules. -NYC2TLV 10:49, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I think you both should avoid personal attacks and have some can of mediation (תיווך) to overcome the differences. It is better if you will try talk each other for understanding instead of forcing out changes. MathKnight 13:09, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Famous Players

Listen the Famous Players part of Football in Israel is really nota relevant part of the article and can be offensive/start edit wars. I am proposing that we get rid of it. -NYC2TLV 18:18, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Merkava infobox image

Just wanted to say thanks for uploading a higher-quality image! Much appreciated // 3R1C 00:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

You welcome. Credit should go to Michael Mass, the photographer. MathKnight 10:35, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Birya affair

Hello MathKnight. Can you look at the above mentioned article? I wrote it two days ago, according to the opening sgement of the Hebrew article, and nobody looked at it ever since. I guess your english is better than mine, and I'm afraid there are many mistakes in the article's English, that needs correcting. Thanks again - Pelegisrael 04:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I'll go over it. MathKnight 15:38, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, and Chag Sameach! Pelegisrael 20:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Gothic

Hi Matthew! I notice that you have a love for Gothic architecture. Unfortunately, I've just removed your pic of Cologne cathedral from the top of the Gothic Architecture page for a number of reasons.

• The lead pics were chosen because they are of exceptionally high quality.
• Cologne Cathedral was begun in the middle ages, but at least 2/3s of the building, including the famous spires, are 19th century. Only the eastern end was completed and in use by 1600
• Identifying the parts is useful but very hard to see unless the pic is extremely large. So it's not the best as a lead picture.
• Could you do one that just has the English and not the Hebrew which is out of place in an English article unless the subject matter is specifically Jewish.

You obviously have a bit of a passion for churches. Is it just the architecture? The architecture plus the music? Or are you Messianic? Amandajm 09:28, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I do love Gothic architecture and Gothic music. I wrote the Hebrew value for it in the Hebrew Wikipedia. I think the leading pictures should include an exterior picture of a Gothic cathedral and not just the interior. Though Cologne cathedral was finished only in the 19th century, the building went according to 13th centuey blueprints, so it is pretty loyal to medieval Gothic architecture. I could do one in English, but I suggest you find a picture of a cathedral that was complete in the Middle Ages and not in the Gothic Revival era (as you said that is a con against choosing Cologne cathedral). I am an Orthodox Jew, not Christian or Messianic in any way. I just love gothic architecture and music. MathKnight 10:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Matthew!

The pic of Rheims is Ok, except that the colour and shape of the picture, design-wise, looked simply awful with the picture of Coutances, which is one of the most supeb pictures of medieval architecture on wiki. If you are going to make a big change like pushing down the lead pic, please leave a message on the discussion page. I knoow this may seem possesive and nasty, but I've spent hours and hours on that article.

So, anyway... we couldn't have the superb Coutances pic AND your pic, so Coutances has gone into the articlle again.

Thanks for the Ennglish labelled picture of Notre Dame. It's useful. And I have replaced the other pic of Notre dame which was from an almost identical angle.

And I have to commment that jamming it between two tall pictures in the intro looked awful! What I'm on about now is layout and design. You need to look before saving. The reason why the two interiors worked was that the colours, although not the same, were in hharmony, and the proportions of the pics were the same and the proportion of the subject matter was the same. If you try to team a yellowish or greyish or reddish interior with and exterior that has blazing blue sky, they look bad. Moreover, if your interior view is of a larger scale (scale not size, OK?) than you exterior view, and they are positioned so as to relate, as they are now, then it doesn't work, layout wise.

So although I've left Rheims there and moved Coutances, I think it looks bad. The interior of Zanipolo is also a good shot. But we need two pics that harmonise, not fight.

If you have a sense of humour, go and look at the discussion page of Sistine Chapel ceiling. Amandajm 12:15, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi. In my opinion the picture of Coutances is awful, two yellowish and lacks the spirit of Gothic. The picture of Reims cathedral works well with the Venecian interior pic (and an exterior picture is requiered in the lead). But since you wrote the article I let you to decide. I know how is it to write an article from scratch and then being modified by someone else: I wrote the article about Gothic architecture in the Hebrew Wikipedia - he:אדריכלות גותית (you are welcome to pop in and see the pictures and design) and the article about CAT D9 bulldozer in both Wikipedias (he:דחפור די-9) after major research I've been doing about the two.

I saw the last pic in the Sistine Chapel talk page. :-D , very amusing. MathKnight 12:35, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Perhapes!!

HAHA! I edited the caption under Einstein so it didn't say "perhapes"...:) You're welcome! MiniMary12 17:38, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

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Gothic architecture

Matt, please stop cramming extra pics into that article. In your undoubted enthusiasm, you appear to do it without any real regard for the layout and appearance of the article as a whole.

This is a generic article. It is impossible to illustrate every important building, so I have carefully chosen representative examples. A composite post-card type picture of a building that is mostly 19th century really doesn't need to be crammed in (for example). And as for Ulm, Salisbury has been chosen because it is one of the few (and beyond doubt the finest) stone spire remaining that is actually medieval, rather than a total rebuild. It has had restoration of details and (I believe) some resurfacing, but is structurally entirely original.

Amandajm (talk) 02:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Matt, Chartres is an important Cathedral. But that pic, apart from the spires, presents a similar aspect to your labelled Notre Dame pic. You choose. Either the Notre dame or the Chartres. The Chartres picture, when shoved between the two in the intro, creates a poor layout, because the scale is too different, and the shape of the pic is wrong. You simply can't cram everything into a generic article.

If you insist on having Chartres in the heading, then the facade of Reims and the Interior of Zanipolo will have to go down to the basement because they don't look good with it, and the pic of Notre Dame will become superfluous. Please take a look at the overall arrangement of the page which attempts to create a bit of a balance.

The importance of Chartres is acknowledged by a pic of its Royal Portal, further down the page. Canterbury, one of England's finest Cathedral's is only represented by a tiny detail of its blind arcading. Amandajm (talk) 10:58, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

In my resolution (1024px) it looks good and fit nicely in the gap near the table of contents. Maybe we should place Chartres picture below the intterior of Zanipolo, and it will be less disturbing to you. The picture suit for the opening sequence because it show one of the three aspects: western facade, interior and profile exterior with flying buttresses. I think it adds and not damage the aestetics of the article. MathKnight Gothic Israeli Jew 16:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Matt! I'm about to re-organise the pics, into galleries of four. (Not five, not six). It will be four, except in one case where it will be 8. So could you look at what's there and look in the gallery. The dump into the gallery from Commons anything that you think iis really to good be be excluded. I promise you they won't all get included. Cologne will be down there with the Revivals. I've got a couple of other things to do first! so I'll take a look at your suggestions in a day or so. I'm sure that in the expansion, Chartres is one that ought to go in. Hooroo! Amandajm (talk) 09:32, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

You might want to look in User:MathKnight\Gothic where I concentrated my favorite Gothic pics and in he:אדריכלות גותית where I put galleries under each topic. The main gallery presents different characteristics of Gothic cathedrals:

• 
  Burgos cathedral. I suggest to replace it with the facade of Amiens (Image:Amiens-cathédrale.jpg)
• 
  Pinnacles and flying buttresses at St. Vitus Cathedral
• 
  Pinnacles and flying buttresses at Duomo di Milano
• 
  Gargoyle
• 
  Rose window in Strasbourg cathedral
• 
  Rose window in Notre-Dame de Paris
• 
  Nave looking west in Amiens
• 
  Choir in Notre-Dame de Paris
• 
  The western gate in Notre-Dame de Chartres - already appears in the article
• Gothic window at Lincoln Cathedral
  Gothic window at Lincoln Cathedral
• 
  Lancet arch - already appears
• 
  Le Mans Cathedral with 3 tiers of flying buttresses

I also suggest to keep the photo of Clermont-Ferrand Cathedral, Milan Cathedral and add pictures of Cologne Cathedral (maybe to put Image:Gothic-Cologne-cathedral002.gif in the revival section), Image:Salisbury Cathedral Detail Arches.jpg (Gothic 4-ribbed vaults at Salisbury Cathedral), Image:Catedral de Burgos-Fernán González.JPG (Gothic in Spain, Burgos cathedral). MathKnight Gothic Israeli Jew 18:00, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Consider also: Image:Cathedral of Amiens front.jpg, Image:CanterburyCathedral.png and Image:Uppsala Cathedral.jpg (Brick Gothic). MathKnight Gothic Israeli Jew 18:28, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Chartres

I understand the point you are making. My suggestion is to remove your labelled view of Notre Dame and put the pic of Chartres there instead. As I've said before, when you put pics immediately below each other, they visually relate. Having pics of very different format and layout together doesn't work well visually. I'm planning on changing the article layout a bit, but I don't want to fiddle with it before Christmas.

With regards to some of your other suggestions, this is the generic article: *There should be separate articles for French, English, Italian, Spanish etc etc Gothic. These articles ought to contain a collection of pics representative of the country.. It doesn't all have to go in this article.

• All the major buildings like Notre Dame, Chartres, Maria sopra Minerva, Lincoln, Burgos etc etc ought to have their own articles. In that way, a building that has features in a diversity of styles is included.
• I don't want to use Burgos as a generic example of a Gothic facade, because its doorway is classical in style, so it gives the wrong impression to a beginner-student. I don't want to use the interior of the east window of Lincoln, because the glass was designed by Ward and Hughes in about 1860. I don't want to use the spires of Cologne, when we have genuine medieval spires at several other locations. I don't want to use a 19th century gargoyle off Notre Dame as an example of Gothic sculpture when much genuine medieval sculpture still exists. Every example has been chosen to illustrate a point as accurately as possible.

I will get back to it. Amandajm (talk) 12:02, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I still think that Chartres cathedral south overview should be with the 3 opening pictures of the article, representing the 3 architectural aspects of Gothic cathedral: facade, interior and exterior. I don't see why they vosually don't fit together. It should not come instead of the terms-on-Notredame which serves as a terminology map and doesn't reach the quality level of Chartres picture. They can go together at the same article. I can make a new term picture entirely in English based Notre-Dame de Paris.

As for the gallery, I accept that you don't want to include Neo-Gothic stuff. Moreover, I suggested to replace Burgos Cathedral facade with this of Amiens Cathedral, a noteable High Gothic cathedral in France. We can take from there also a gargoyle picture.

MathKnight Gothic Israeli Jew 16:32, 21 December 2007 (UTC)