Markus WikiEditor

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A barnstar for you!

	The Teamwork Barnstar
	For your help on combating inflated sales and other contributions to List of best-selling Latin albums, I proudly present this barnstar to you! Erick (talk) 13:30, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Adding to List of Best Selling Latin Albums

Hi 88marcus I was looking at the Draft:List of best-selling Latin albums and I think we should add the album Hijas del Tomate by Las Ketchup because according to the source I used for the worldwide sales the album sold around 2.6 million copies. The album was certified Platinum in Europe and Mexico and 4x Platinum in the U.S. but I was hoping you could look at the book about Spanish certifications to see if it received any higher certification than just a single Platinum. Could you look that up please? FanDePopLatino (talk) 02:32, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: I only saw the platinum cert there, but you can download de book (only the certs. parts) via Mediafire (search for mediafire there, the certs are divided like: 1979 to 1990, 1990 to... and so on) on the article List of best-selling music artists.--88marcus (talk) 02:56, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Okay thanks. FanDePopLatino (talk) 03:29, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Enrique Iglesias (album) sales

Hi. I was reading Enrique Iglesias sales and I guess its sales are really inflated. The album has only 1.66 million certified units, of which 1 million comes from RIAA "shipments". As of 2017, the album was not listed among "The Top 25 Biggest Selling Latin Albums of the Last 25 Years", which means its actual sales are less than 568K in the United States, according to Nielsen. source

With all of these, don't you think selling more than "6 million" copies worldwide is inflated? If so, can you find another source for its sales which represents a better sales number in compare to its certified units? Albums like Más and Vuelve have much more certified units for the "six million", with Vuelve doing much better and not even comparable on the charts. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 20:13, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

@آرمین هویدایی: You're right. I tried to find something like 4 million but couldn't find any. Only 5 million and I included it there. If you think is inflated, just delete the information. Regarding US sales, Nielsen Soundscan did not cover all stores at that time and until the mid 2000s it was very difficult to give an accurate figure for sales by Latin artists. That's why Shakira, Ricky Martin and other artists have certificates much higher than sales calculated by them. The list you mentioned is about Nielsen sales, probably.--88marcus (talk) 22:38, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Oh I got it and thanks for finding the source, I think 5 is ok. And thanks for explaining, yes I also saw Ricky Martin sold 987,000 sold at BMG Music Clubs, which Nielsen did not count as an example. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 11:48, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Michael Jackson’s Certifications

Can you explain why Michael Jackson’s available certifications are too low? His claimed sales of the 'Thriller' and 'Bad' albums surpass million mark, with 1.5 million and 1 million respectively, although Guinness records lists 'Thriller' as having sold 3 million copies in Brazil. Jackson’s total available certification from brazil is only at 280k and that’s just does not seem right.TruthGuardians (talk) 17:29, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

@TruthGuardians: It's Sony Music's fault. All his albums and DVDs have at least one gold record in Brazil, but they didn't bother to certify them. I know this because since 2003, Brazilian CDs and DVDs have come with a code that represents the number of albums that were brought to stores, for example: 12 thousand (AA12000) copies of DVD Number ones were distributed initially, then another 2 thousand (AB 2000), then 2.5 thousand (AC 2500) and so on. It's the only way to know how high his sales were in Brazil, after 2003. Guinness's 3 million is as inflated as the 120 million sold copies of Thriller they posted on the site years ago, but by searching in old Brazilian newspapers you will find reports that Thriller sold over a million copies there by 1989. (codes can be viewed on the Chartmasters website or on the Ukmix forum)--88marcus (talk) 22:39, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the crash course. I’ve been in contact with the Michael Jackson Estate and they said that the 3 million figure for 'Thriller' is actually on the low side of what Sony America records prove. According to insiders, Jackson’s records were purposefully lost for political reasons to push native artists. They have receipts proving this. Based on this, I don’t believe the number is inflated. Especially considering that it sold 1.5 million copies as of 1991. It’s not hard to believe that it has sold a minimum of another 1.5 million since. Especially after Jackson died in 2009, you couldn’t keep his music in the shelves. Guinness records have since updated 'Thriller' to 66 million, but need to now be updated to 70 million pure albums sold worldwide. The album has sold 120 million records worldwide. The record keeping company needs to lower Elvis’ inflated number of a billion claimed sales. Not sure if you have noticed lately, but all year long, Jackson’s records have been certified and re-certified all over the world. Brazil needs a complete audit if you ask me, and I hope that this gets straitened out. Thanks for your time.TruthGuardians (talk) 01:35, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

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Michael Jackson source

Have you ever come across a source stating that MJ has sold more than 400m records, but less than 750M?TruthGuardians (talk) 00:42, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

@TruthGuardians: Unfortunally not. :( --88marcus (talk) 01:51, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Tina Turner Private Dancer

I know this a little silly, but can we change private dancer's sales figure to 11 million. I feel like that would be more appropriate since the certifications add up to 8.4 million? Miaxh (talk) 15:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

@Miaxh: sure! 11 is still accurate, as is 12kk.--Markus WikiEditor (talk) 17:58, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

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Mariah Carey vs. Garth Brooks

Hi, I noticed that you thanked me for my edit on the “List of bestselling albums by year in the United States” a while back. I’m currently in an edit war with someone who believes that Brooks had the bestselling album of 1991, despite Carey outselling him through pre-SoundScan sales. Nielsen SoundScan started tracking albums in late May 1991, which would disregard the first five months of album sales for that year. The page states that Nielsen should only be taken into account for the years 1992 and onwards; 1991 should adhere to the old rules. I’m having a hard time communicating with them as they believe MRC Data is the only factor in this situation. What should I do? Ironman1p (talk) 16:06, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Brazil; Norway

Hi Marcus. Do you happen to know if The Lion King (1994 soundtrack) actually sold 1.2 million in Brazil? I early included those figures in the List of best-selling albums in Brazil), but book hasn't a preview when trying to re-verify tbh. Also, do you think this source is ok to use? Information forwarded by Aftenposten but not sure at all about the domain. Cheers, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 01:46, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Apoxyomenus: Hi. I couldn't find nothing about the sales of TLK soundtrack, only about the VHS which sold over 900,000 here at the time. link The site you mentioned seems reliable to me.--Markus WikiEditor (talk) 18:02, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

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RIAA certification numbers, and actual physical sales numbers

Several years ago, there was a dispute regarding the Certifications table on album pages and whether or not we include pure album sales in its own column with sources (as certification numbers, and pure sales numbers aren’t always the same). This discussion has recently been re-opened here. If you have the chance, please comment. --Blastmaster11 (talk) 01:14, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

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Oasis worldwide record sales have now reached 75 million

Hi how are you doing ?. Can you add Oasis to the 75 million mark on the biggest selling artists in music history please ?. I follow this quite closely and I believe they have crossed the threshold. Can you have a look at this and add them to the list please ?. Many Thanks 178.167.180.191 (talk) 20:08, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi Markus can you help me out with this please ?. Thank you 31.200.159.213 (talk) 15:43, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

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1 million of copies in Brazil

Good evening (Peruvian time), I would like to touch on the topic of the million copies in Brazil of Shakira with "Pies Descalzos" since no matter how many times I find references for sales of more than a million they are reversed, if the closest figure is used it will not It makes sense since Madonna's album "True Blue" certified "Gold" and its figure is one million based on a Pop page as a source. I found sources of sales of 1 million and even more, however they are reversed by adjusting to just 500,000. AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 02:59, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi @AlexanderShakifan29:. Shakira's sales that these sites report are exaggerated, the most reliable sources say 500,000 and 750,000 in Brazil. As I follow Wikipedia in Portuguese, I noticed that some sites published sales of 1.5 million copies after a user posted this unsourced information in Shakira articles. It's circular information, it happens all the time on Wikipedia. Can we come to an agreement and leave maybe 750,000? Regarding Madonna, the gold certificate received is only for sales in the CD format from 1990 to 1996. In 1993, reliable newspapers and magazines stated that the album had sold around 800 thousand copies in the country. You can speak in the article's talk if you disagree with the inclusion of "1 million" as claim sales.--Markus WikiEditor (talk) 19:07, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Regarding that, before someone in Portuguese Wikipedia edited those 1.5 million, a page from Brazil from 2016 called "Diario de Santa Maria" published it. It can be used as a reliable source considering that the figure of 500,000 and even 750,000 are from YEARS AGO. AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 20:04, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Link: https://web.archive.org/web/20160622130818/http://diariodesantamaria.clicrbs.com.br/rs/cultura-e-lazer/noticia/2016/06/skank-spice-girls-e-shakira-o-que-esses-artistas-tem-em-comum-6097519.html AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 20:05, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

@AlexanderShakifan29: It's a question of coherence. If Shakira had sold 1.5 million copies with an album here she would have come to live in Brazil, not even in Colombia did her album sell all that. All these sites don't work with artists' sales issues, they take information from Wikipedia and fan sites, and sometimes from information given by record companies. In music articles on Wikipedia there is a consensus not to list sales much higher than the certificate received, except in cases of very old albums, released when there were few organizations that audit record sales, etc. For example, it is not stated that Beatles, Elvis, Michael Jackson sold 1 billion but rather more than 500 million and a note talking about these billion-dollar sales. Shakira's certificate was only Platinum, for 250 thousand copies sold, there is no record (or maybe I haven't found it yet) in any record label conference, or Brazilian TV show Shakira receiving a diamond record, or 6x platinum for selling 1 .5 million here. Her album that came after didn't even reach 250 thousand. regarding the information that the estimates of 500 thousand and 750 thousand are from years ago, there are more current people talking about this number and CD sales are low after the artist stops promoting it. That would be to say that the album sold 750 thousand after its release, which is the sum of all the albums released by Shakira together. I think this is a bit unlikely to be true. The estimate of 500 thousand was given in 2020. After I have said all this, what do you think should be done so that you and I can reach an agreement?--Markus WikiEditor (talk) 20:24, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

In this case I consider that the closest is the figure of 750,000 copies, as you said, you can edit it in the article. AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 01:41, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

June 2024

Hi Markus WikiEditor! I noticed that you have reverted to restore your preferred version of Bing Crosby several times. The impulse to undo an edit you disagree with is understandable, but I wanted to make sure you're aware that the edit warring policy disallows repeated reversions even if they are justifiable.

All editors are expected to discuss content disputes on article talk pages to try to reach consensus. If you are unable to agree at Talk:Bing Crosby, please use one of the dispute resolution options to seek input from others. Using this approach instead of reverting can help you avoid getting drawn into an edit war. Thank you. DonIago (talk) 17:12, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Doniago:. I understand the rules, but this user is a difficult case to handle. He was expelled from the Spanish Wikipedia for turning the Bing Crosby article into a fan page, as well as for poor writing and disregard for references. He threatened to use multiple IDs and said it would be impossible to stop him from editing the Bing Crosby page. Eventually, he was expelled. Here on the English Wikipedia, he had some issues as well for doing the same things he did on the other wiki, but he stopped editing. However, he continues to use different IDs to edit the page, as you can see in the edit history. It’s impossible to communicate with him, as you must have seen. I kept all the information he added, but he continued to revert changes. It’s difficult to deal with a user like this. Markus WikiEditor (talk) 17:46, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate your explanation, but the point remains: you (or the IP; I've warned you both) should have initiated a conversation at the article's Talk page by now. If they continue to try to re-insert their edits, we can request page protection, but evidence that you've attempted a good-faith dialogue on the Talk page (i.e. explain the situation and why you feel your version is stronger or what the IP is doing that's problematic, and avoid conduct issues or issues occurring else-wiki), and that they haven't reciprocated, would make for a much stronger case for protecting the page. I hope this helps! DonIago (talk) 17:50, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

I filed a request at RFPP but it was declined in part because there is no existing discussion regarding the content dispute. I'm happy to keep reverting the edit-warring IP when I see them trying to push through their edits, but I don't really understand the nature of the content dispute. If you could start a Talk page discussion (and the IP doesn't respond to it), we'll be in a much better position to get the page protected. DonIago (talk) 13:35, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

@Doniago: It appears he has stopped vandalizing the page. If it starts again I'll make a post on the Talk page.--Markus WikiEditor (talk) 00:10, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

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Oasis - I have a source that says they sold 100 million worldwide

Hi how are you doing today ?. I found two links that say Oasis has passed 100 million sales.. The first I had was from the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame website. Oasis were nominated to be inducted this year. On the profile of the band it said they had sold over 100 million records worldwide, of course the link seems dead since the event is over. is there anyway we could have the nominees bios archived by anyone on here ?. I have another source would that be enough to get the band to the 100 million sales mark ?. Regards 92.251.155.97 (talk) 22:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi. For Oasis to be included in the list of artists who have sold over 100 million copies, a calculation is needed. They are artists from the 1990s, I don't know if the certificates of less than 60 million are enough to include them in that section. You should register on Wikipedia, as it is the easiest way to communicate with other editors. I don't even know if you will get that response. Markus WikiEditor (talk) 00:34, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I found the Rock and Roll hall of fame quote from this years induction saying they had 100 million sales . how many cert sales do you think they need 92.251.155.97 (talk) 01:40, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't know. You could ask in the Talk of the article. Markus WikiEditor (talk) 01:56, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi you said you were going to do a calculation is that correct  ?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.251.149.132 (talk) 13:31, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi can you update Oasis Uk certs from July to September please ?.

Hi can you update the above please. Oasis have updated sales of 1.5 million units in the UK since 19 July. Can you add please ?. Regards 178.167.132.104 (talk) 11:58, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

@178.167.132.104: You can do that in the article by yourself.--Markus WikiEditor (talk) 15:58, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi I cannot do it on the best selling music artists of all time. It should have been 1.5 million certs you missed 300k certs for Definitely maybe that needs to be added also. Is that ok please ?. Thanks 178.167.132.104 (talk) 16:16, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

@178.167.132.104: Strange. When we search for Oasis in BPI website appear that they have only two certifications since July: Half The World Away (+300) and Live Forever (+300). When I click in general BRIT Certified appeared more two updates only in September. Maybe you can see here link and included here in the talk the name of the single/album and the amount of copies that need to be included. Markus WikiEditor (talk) 16:25, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Definitely Maybe went 9x platinum in September, you can clearly see it so they should have another 300k. I notice that site does not update bands certs for weeks but when you go through week by week and you can clearly see extra certs for all artists. You can have a look. Thank you 178.167.132.104 (talk) 22:07, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

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