Man2

Masters Degree in Knowing it All?

Well then, go on, prove that Pemberton is part of the 'town' of Wigan as opposed to part of the 'local authority area of Wigan'. But, I must point out, the council themselves are on MY side with this one, although they refer to both Wigan and Pemberton as being the 'Former Wigan County Borough'. Pemberton and Wigan are two separate towns, with separate identities from the 11th century, separated by the River Douglas. The two town councils joined together in the early 20th century to create a County Borough. The reason for this move was due to the fact that Wigan, alone, could not be a County Borough because it did not have the required population figure of, I think, 50,000.

It's all recorded in history. No-one can change it. Look at the Wigan Parish Map http://www.british-history.ac.uk/image.aspx?compid=41379&filename=fig15.gif&pubid=288 all the towns are marked out and named. The name 'Pemberton' is written on deeds of properties from the late 19th century. It never says Wigan unless the property is IN Wigan.

All the land might well be 'under Wigan council' nowadays, but that doesn't make everywhere 'Wigan'. The Redcliffe Maud commission originally wanted the Wigan Metropolitan Borough to be known as Makerfield. What a good idea that was. It would certainly have avoided confusion as to the name of the place where individuals actually live. As of now, we get people who live in St.Helens actually calling themselves Wiganers, they're so confused.

Anyway, I'm not altogether bothered what anybody thinks, I'm building myself a house in Spain, in the campo, so I can be on my own away from all the mentalists who wind me up!

(nothing personal, I'm a nice guy really!)

PS: This just dawned on me ..... when the local government act 1972 was passed, it abolished all current county boroughs. Therefore, along with all the others, Wigan County Borough was abolished. It was 'no more'. However, the towns Pemberton and Wigan still existed and were both contained within the new authority area / metropolitan borough. Some people even claim the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan to be the town of Wigan, although they always exclude Leigh, which is very strange in itself as Leigh (a former borough) was, itself, abolished by the 1972 act. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.170.205.195 (talk) 18:03, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Stockport

No problem. Was just about to confirm it with you! You might be interested in this also. Jhamez84 11:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd raise this with JemmyH and at the Wigan Borough talk page. At a first glance it seems the terms are interchangable, but then-again, parts of Wigan Borough still use Townships, so may mean something else.

A district to me suggests a populated, or built up area - it may be best used for those kinds of areas, whilst component area may be better for rural or more obsure areas. Jhamez84 01:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Contact User:MRSC about creating a Wigan postcode area page - He has some source material that will get you started. It worked well for the OL postcode area. Jhamez84 11:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

You may wish to pass comment at this deletion proposal page. Or talk a look at this debate. Jhamez84 19:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: St.Helens

Thanks for the message, but (as you might have anticipated) you're wrong.

Firstly, St.Helens is not a 'town', it's a 'borough'. It was created out of several places to form an area of administration. When you enter the 'borough' called St.Helens, it says 'Welcome to St.Helens' on the signs. It doesn't say 'Welcome to the Metropolitan Borough of St.Helens' like it says on the Wigan borough signs. That's because St.Helens is just that, a borough, and anyone who lives in it lives in St.Helens.

Example: you could live in Parr, in St.Helens. Newton le Willows, in St.Helens. Rainford, in St.Helens. But you can't live in St.Helens, in St.Helens, because there's no such place. You could say that "you can't be in St.Helens without being in one of it's 'component places'.

Similar, but different, Wigan is a town in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan. There are many places in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan. Hindley, Ince, Pemberton, Orrell, Ashton in Makerfield, Astley, Tyldesley, Lowton and Golborne. You could say that "you can't be in Tyldesley and be in Wigan at the same time". Although you can be in Tyldesley and be in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, or Wigan Borough, or Wigan Council's area of authority.

Garswood and Downall Green are two settlements in Ashton in Makerfield. They are IN St.Helens. Yet 'some' of the people whio live there claim to be Wiganers. How can they be? Garswood and Downall Green have NEVER been in Wigan, or Wigan Borough, but they have been in Wigan Parish.

Anyway, I'll be in Andorra this time next week and bugger the Wiganers!

A Reply....

.... to your reply.

Half of Billinge is in St.Helens and those from that half of Billinge are from Billinge. The other half of Billinge, and known as Billinge Higher End, is in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan and those from that half of Billinge are also from Billinge.

The only difference being the local authority.

Here's an example of another mix-up ....... a friend of mine lives in Slag Lane, Haydock (?). He actually lives in Ashton in Makerfield, but he won't have it. To him it's Haydock. However, his house is on the Ashton in Makerfield side of Clipsley Brook (which separates Ashton from Haydock) plus he's paid a council tax precept to Seneley Green Parish Council for years, and Seneley Green is, and always has been, a part of Ashton in Makerfield!

People from the 'lower' half of Billinge can, correctly, say they are from St.Helens, because they are. They can also say they are from Wigan Parish and Wigan Postal Area.

People from the 'higher' half of Billinge would be incorrect to say they were from Wigan, but correct to say they were from Wigan Borough, Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, Wigan Council Area, Wigan Parish, Wigan Postal Area, etc.

St.Helens = Metropolitan Borough of Wigan.

Any component town in St.Helens = Wigan (or any other component town in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan).

As for Andorra, well, the forecast says 32 degrees f and snow is expected!

Further

No they couldn't. Because the Metropolitan Borough 'OF' Wigan HAS to be called that, because that's what it is. Not 'the town', but the borough OF the town (Wigan). There's Wigan (the town) and Wigan Borough (the Wigan council administration area). Regardless of what you say, there has never been any town called St.Helens. St.Helens was created AS a borough, for administrative purposes, out of four existing places. Wigan was left over and retained by the crown, when land was doled out after the Norman invasion and the Domesday Book. Wigan was retained along with the manor of Newton. It's all written down in history and, no matter which council collects the dustbins on a Monday, you can't change history. Wiganers have this attitude that wherever they live in Wigan council's area, they live in Wigan. But they don't want to be part of Greater Manchester. Without Greater Manchester Wigan Borough, as it is today, wouldn't exist. It was going to be called Makerfield. And so it should have been, to save confusion! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.170.205.195 (talk) 23:24, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

There's More!

In your 14th May message to me, you said, "There are decent arguments that the borough should have been included in one of the new sub districts of Lancashire, however realistically it was a straight choice between GM and Merseyside. It was clear then that the obvious choice was the former as the area clearly does not gravitate toward Liverpool".

However, Wigan has had much Liverpool connection throughout history, ie: trade / industry / commercial connections. Also, Wigan itself, along with most of the local government area, is in Liverpool Diocese.

And, Merseyside people regard themselves as being 'Scousers' just as much as Wiganers regard themselves as 'Mancs.'. ie: not at all. A 'Scouser' is from Liverpool as a 'Geordie' is from Newcastle and a 'Cockney' is from London. People who regard themselves as Wiganers, when they're clearly not, might regard anyone from the south of England as a Cockney because, to them, they sound like one. To another southerner they sound nothing like a Cockney.

I have a friend, Mick, from Hartlepool, who sounds just like Oz (Jimmy Nail) off Auf Wiedersehen Pet, but he says "Hey, I'm no Geordie, my mate, I'm a Monkeyhanger"!

I've known people from Huyton to be offended by being called a Scouser (it takes a local to tell the difference in the accent). The Salford lot hate the Mancs. and vice versa.

Anyway, Wiganers are the most small-minded folk I've ever met, and I've met some! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.170.205.195 (talk) 21:19, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

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