User talk:Latebird/archive 2006

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Please add new entries directly on User talk:Latebird

Welcome!

Hello, Latebird/archive 2006, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!  -- Longhair 11:57, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome! I'm not completely new to WP, just that most of my activity is in german language. I don't expect too many differences (but time wil tell). --Latebird 12:14, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Miyeegombo Enkhbold

Thanks for telling me about the problems with the prime minister of Mongolia. That was one of the worst articles I have seen about a current politician. I took out a lot of the most obvious POV material, though the article still need work. Academic Challenger 23:29, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

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The following was copied here by User:Lemonhead from User_Talk:Academic Challenger:

Miyeegombo Enkhbold Hi, glad I found someone who is interested in political figures. I need a second (or third) opinion on the current prime minister of Mongolia. Care to comment there? --Latebird 22:01, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. But I suspect User:Lemonhead needs some direct admin intervention before he stops his crusade. --Latebird Sorry I have to bother again. Unfortunately the issue has turned into the beginning of an edit war (sources vs. opinion) and I am subjected to personal attacks both in edit summaries and talk. My warnings and arguments have fallen on deaf ears. Now I need at least one other person trying to talk reasonably with User:Lemonhead, as a basis for more formal steps against him. Thanks for any help you can give! --Latebird 12:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

The following was copied here (together with a duplicate of the above) by User:Lemonhead from User_Talk:Lemonhead:

Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Wikipedia has a policy against personal attacks. In some cases, users who engage in personal attacks may be blocked from editing by admins or banned by the arbitration committee. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Please resolve disputes appropriately. Thank you. --Latebird 17:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Latebird,

I never ever attacked you. So, I don't understand why you are putting these things in my talk page. So, I am returning this page to you. Thanks. Lemonhead 19:27, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

The following was copied here (together with a duplicate of the above attack warning) by User:Lemonhead from User_Talk:Lemonhead:

Be careful: An important message - PLEASE READ

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Please be extremely careful when adding in information that it does not involve defamation (if you don't know what defamation is, read this). Comments that defame an individual may leave you open to being sued by them. Your status here, whether as a signed on user or as an anonymous IP, would not protect you. Someone you defame could get a court order instructing your server to supply your details to them. They could then sue you for damages. Remember, while Section 230 of the United States Communications Decency Act protects Wikipedia from being sued for defamation, it may not protect the person who posted any defamation on a Wikipedia page.

Furthermore the Board of Wikipedia has ruled that Where the user has been vandalising articles or persistently behaving in a disruptive way, [personal information] data may be released to assist in the targeting of IP blocks, or to assist in the formulation of a complaint to relevant Internet Service Providers. (Full information on Wikipedia privacy policy here)

This box has been placed on your talk page because another Wikipedian suspects that, perhaps innocently, you may have defamed someone in your contributions. Please recheck your edits. Do not make allegations against someone unless you have verifiable, independently-sourced evidence. Don't rely on hear-say, rumours, or things you believe without proof to be facts. Wikipedia requires sources for all claims.

If you have defamed someone, you may be blocked without warning from editing Wikipedia. If you find that you have inadvertently defamed someone in an article, do two things:
1. Remove the defamation from the article immediately.
2. Hit this link and leave a note on that page saying that you accidentially left defamatory claims in named article. (Don't repeat the claims. They will be able to see from your edit removing them what they were.) A developer will then delete the claim from the page history

Once that is done, and the defamation is gone completely from our records, the problem should be solved.

--Latebird 17:31, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Dear Latebird,

Please don't bring your personal grudge against me for disclosing high reason of you being a relative of Miyeegombo Enkhbold. Because all your other edits are mostly to put wikify signs into texts to show that you edited thousands of articles to get wikipedia adminship and to threaten anti-Miyeegombo Enkhbold people.

Everybody has freedom to express their opinions and sockpuppets are allowed in the wikipedia. I will continue to contribute my opinions at wikipedia. If you try to block me, I will bring personal lawsuit against you at International Arbitration. Lemonhead 21:26, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

That's not even how Requests for adminship works, wikifying tons of stuff will get credit or trust as a good copyeditor, but not necessarily a good janitor. The Wikimedia Foundation reserves the right to block anyone they wish. You make good edits so I hope you can cool this down asn refrain from making legal threats; I don't think the person you were speaking to even had the capacity to block you. Also, see User:Adam Carr, who has close political connections by working for a politician, but he strives for neutrality always. Cool down, please. Elle _{vécut heureuse} ^{à jamais} (Be eudaimonic!) 00:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Be eudaimonic!, It seems Academic Challenger is now working on this issue now. Lemonhead 20:05, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Your contribution in German Wikipedia

Hello Latebird, Answer to your note in my discussion page,

I know internet coding, and computer for a while and I made a profound search and that's true you are Miyeegombo Enkhbold's son and you are in Australia. Of course, your real name is not Latebird, since there is no such real name in Mongolia. (I've been to Mongolia many times in last few years because my father has Kalmyk Mongolian origin and we love Mongolia.)

In German wikipedia, I got Condor-Tas as my username, my user page Condor-Tas explains I am Lemonhead in English wikipedia. Because the lemonhead was already taken in German when I got the username. What's wrong with it?

Latebird, you wrote to negate de:Tsachiagiin Elbegdordsch and elevate de:Mijeegombyn Enchbold with lies in those articles, I can tell by the words I can understand and by the wrong dates. Therefore, I put {POV} sign over there and explained my reason in the relative discussion pages. Why are you complaining in my discussion page as if I did a crime? I know what I did and I already explained in those discussion pages. Please don't bring your POV to wikipedia.

I want Mongolian society to develop and as a social philosopher, I have been reading everything possible about Mongolia's social and political life lately. In my advantage, I know Mongolian and read all Mongolian newspapers. Both you and me know as other Mongolians the truth that MPRP leaders present mostly lies in foreign language news about what they are doing and talk and act but inform total opposite in Mongolian language. So, why don't you want to put the facts in the article about their actions of the people rather put your own POV to negate Elbegdorj-the democrat and to elevate Enkhbold-the MPRP chair. This is a shame on you, Latebird because all the rest of the people who are interested in the topics can do more research. Remember, the event is happening in Mongolia and the most untwisted truth comes from the resources where people write what they see with their own eyes and those resources are mostly Mongolian newspapers. Lemonhead 20:06, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Inventing absurd stories about me certainly won't help to bring more democracy to Mongolia. --Latebird 23:55, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I didn't invent, it was logical conclusion. It is based on you kept deleting negative facts about Miyeegombo Enkhbold and putting false positive sections about him. Now I see that the problem was instead of editing the places you consider POV, you were totally removing the whole paragraph about the negative facts and were stubbornly repeating it and that leaded to my conclusion.

I want wikipedia not to contain false info, therefore, I began to contribute for accuracy of articles about things that I found conflicting comparing to other sources.

I don't care whoever you are. Let's stop our argument if you wish. I wish you well. Lemonhead 22:50, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

There's nothing logical in your libelous statements about me. In several places ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]), you claimed to have found proof about my identity. Are you now admitting that was a lie? If no, how do you justify those statements? If yes, how can I, the other editors, and the admins know you won't lie again? --Latebird 00:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Dear Latebird,

Just to answer your question, on February 24 you kept posting false elevated paragraphs in Miyeegombo Enkhbold such as MA in 1987 and kept deleting negative facts about him that he forced poor families to leave their lands by his decision which was put with the source. From that I tried to see your logic. I can't deny my logic, however, I respect your position. Nothing is 100% sure since everything changes. Perhaps overtime my logic may change when I see your other products. Best wishes, Lemonhead 22:43, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Why are you evading the question? Did you lie or did you not lie about having found proof of my purported identity? Are you sure you understand what the term Libel means? --Latebird 00:26, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Your requests to spy/watch and block me without reason in German wikipedia

To your question dated 20 April, my answer is already answered on 19 April section above. Today I saw that you requested several people in German wikipedia to spy / watch my steps without reason. It is a manipulative step that you considered POV sign in German wikipedia as vandalism to block my German wikipedia's username Condor-Tas. Your steps looks consistent to communist regime policy implemented by cheka from Stalinist regime. I don't think wikipedia serves for this purpose.

Your written German articles on Miyeegombo Enkhbold and Tsakhiagiyn Elbegdorj still contain false information in favor of Miyeegombo Enkhbold and trying to negate Tsakhiagiyn Elbegdorj in German wikipedia. For putting POV in those articles mean that those articles are not neutral and I explained in the discussion pages.

Latebird, you have no rights to try to suppress my rights of expressing my sights in the discussion pages by requesting to block me in the German wikipedia.

Your acts are still consistently manipulative and you still try to ultimately block me who hinders you to propagandize Miyeegombo Enkhbold in German wikipedia. It is not a fair or moral acts in addition to legal matters.

I just found out that you libeled me as I attack everybody and I use many sock puppets which is false. It shows more for your causes. I warn you libel is a crime. Lemonhead 23:33, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Your "answer" from April 19th didn't address the question at all. All that counts would be a straightforward "yes" or "no" (with verifiable proof, of course).

Your previous discussion contributions in the german language Wikipedia have been deleted by an admin because they were considered to contain libelous statements ([8], [9]). The same will most likely happen again with your current repeated atttacks against me. You have failed to actually name any incorrect information in the german language articles (necessarily so, because you don't understand the language). An admin once again removed your POV tags as a "nuisance" just today ([10], [11]).

Please remember that nobody has any right to "express my sights" in Wikipedia. The only thing that will withstand scrutiny is information that is backed up by verifiable sources. Since we are interested in the same topics, it is inevitable that I will run into most of your edits, and will ask questions about your sources. Peer review is a necessary component of working in Wikipedia. In the end, you will be much more successful if you just prove your statements instead of accusing people of conspiracy. --Latebird 00:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Latebird, you wrote "Your previous discussion contributions in the german language Wikipedia have been deleted by an admin because they were considered to contain libelous statements", on contrary you requested on admin Jergen's page to completely delete discussions pages on Miyeegombo Enkhbold and Tsakhiagiyn Elbegdorj articles, libeling me Lemonhead as attacker to everyone and using lots of sockpuppets which are total lies. Why do you think you can libel me to admin and explain me back totally different exactly same way as MPRP leaders did in Mongolia? Another same pattern is going on here. Lemonhead 19:26, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

There is no contradiction. While it is true that I requested those pages to be deleted, the final decision was made by an admin (not Jergen). I have no authority to make such a decision on my own, but they clearly agreed with me that what you wrote there wasn't acceptable, and that it amounted to a personal attack.

The multiple accounts I listed are not libel, because there is plenty of evidence to confirm them. Those accounts all share the same very characteristic style of editing (often with identical edits), which makes it obvious that they were all used by the same person. Their editing patterns are also consistent with the accounts and IP addresses you have used on the english language Wikipedia so far.

Another note: Please don't post the same statements to multiple discussion pages. There is especially no need to use Babelfish for translating your statements into German. I can read English perfectly fine, while babelfish translations are often rather hard to understand. --Latebird 20:39, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

In your request, Latebird, it contains the wording that reads as "Lemonhead attacks everybody and use many sock puppets and please block up" which are both total libels of you to block me out. Your reason was to continue to propagandize Miyeegombo Enkhbold your father or relative by false elevated lies such as he has MA degree and speaks English and Russian in German wikipedia without any "hinder." You showed your talent of manipulation as in the exactly same pattern of MPRP leaders which comes back to my logical reasoning of the assumption that you are Miyeegombo Enkhbold's relative.

About technical issues of editing, that's a separate story going on Mongols discussion page and I answered there. Lemonhead 23:42, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Again, you're judging a Babelfish translation, and not what I actually wrote. None of the statements that you keep complaining about was ever written in the german language articles about Enkhbold and Elbegdorj. And also once again you repeat your lies about Enkbold being my relative, even though several people (including admins) have asked you to stop. --Latebird 01:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Latebird, Don't continue to manipulate, I asked German native speaker to translate me your previous notes in Jergen's pages. About the last note of yours on German wikipedia's vandalism page, I used better translation software than Babelfish above.

Your Manipulation

Hello Latebird,

Your today's entry in the German wikipedia vandalism complaint page referring to me as "hack" saying follows:

"Das gleich nachfolgend eingefügte Elaborat liefert eine anschauliche Kostprobe. Ironischerweise stehen die bemängelten Aussagen im betreffenden Artikel gar nicht drin, es geht also offensichtlich nur darum, zu stören. --Latebird 11:04, 10. Mai 2006 (CEST) or "The equally in the following inserted piece of hack writing delivers a clear taste. Ironically the criticized statements are not in it in the concerning article at all, it is a matter obviously only of interfering. - [[Benutzer:Latebird|Latebird] 11:04, 10th May, 2006 (CEST)"

Your writing refers to my POV sign putting in Miyeegombo Enkhbold and Tsakhiagiyn Elbegdorj articles written by Latebird in German wikipedia. I wrote my reasoning in the discussion pages of each of the articles which means you simply want to keep your false positive article about Miyeegombo Enkhbold and false negative article about Tsakhiagiyn Elbegdorj to be kept without POV sign.

Also, you used derogatory word to humiliate and defame me and all of your writings and continued complaint submission and libel spreading shows more and more of your conspiracy attempt to acquire full immunity to submit your false articles without comments rather than following wikipedia rules to contain articles with facts. Shame on you! Lemonhead 23:57, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Better complain to Babelfish then. Their translation has very little to do with what I wrote. As a general rule, you shouldn't try to judge statements made in a language you don't understand. Actually, I think you're also trying to judge those two articles through Babelfish. That would explain why you keep talking about things that aren't actually written in there. --Latebird 01:14, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Latebird, Don't continue to manipulate, I asked German native speaker to translate me your previous notes in Jergen's pages. About the last note of yours on German wikipedia's vandalism page, I used better translation software than Babelfish above. Lemonhead 20:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

The translation you posted above is exactly identical to the Babelfish output. Maybe you used a desktop version of SYSTRAN, but the the result is still meaningless. Why didn't you post a translation made by that german language friend of yours? --Latebird 23:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Latebird, I have many native German speaker friends as well as in my city you can easily meet everyone from everywhere in the world within few minutes if you get out of home. Please don't try to feel that you can defame me in German wikipedia. Also, for the above translation, it is not SYSTRAN.

Also, you deliberately requested admin Guenther Kreb to block me with your lies second time in German wikipedia. How manipulative you are!!! Lemonhead 21:36, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I did NOT request de:User:Gunter.Krebs to block you, that was his own decision. He is now the third admin in the german language Wikipedia who asked you to stop your disruptive behaviour. The only thing I did myself was to issue a standard request for a speedy delete of the discussion pages where you had repeated your lies about my purported identity. --Latebird 22:52, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

You emailed him. You always write talking bad about me to the person and talk back to me totally different story. Lemonhead 22:17, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Genetik

ich habe dir bei den Mongolen eine Antwort geschrieben. Wenn du noch Fragen zur Genetik hast, stehe ich dir gerne zur Verfügung. Zum Thema genetische Marker (A und B Blutgruppe) und ihre lokale Verteilung ist der Artikel ganz gut. http://de.wiki.x.io/wiki/Blutgruppe Und hier findest du eine Erklärung der molekularen Uhr, mit der sich über die Mutationsrate in Organismen Datierungen anfertigen lassen. http://www.wissenschaft.de/wissen/news/261179.html Genetisch gesehen ist das ein extrem kurzer Zeitraum mit einer kleinen humanen Population in der datiert wurde, was die Genauigkeit maßgeblich erhöht. Wandalstouring 11:12, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Please keep the discussion in one place --Latebird 14:04, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I just had the impression you want to know what you are reading and talking about, before starting a discussion. Wandalstouring 17:20, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Central Asia

WikiProject Central Asia has finally been created! If you're interested, please consider joining us. Aelfthrytha 21:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Population

http://www.destatis.de/basis/d/bevoe/bev_svg_var.php

Here it is shown how the male population slowly decreases till finally becoming less than the female. (Männerüberschuss und Frauenüberschuss). For less developed countries this happens at an earlier state (use your "Atlas"). I am getting a source for Mongolia soon. Wandalstouring 20:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Mongolia

He yes I can understand what you mean and apologies for those Mongolian articles which are not wholly unique. My aim of expanding them was look at other countries. They all have lists of sub-divisions even in less well-known countries so I was hoping to reduce uneven coverage on wikipedia by the Mongolia ones. Also while they may start as a basic stub I always hope that it will encourage more people to add info into a good article which would a be a worthy encyclopedia entry. Just because some may have similar names and as yet not much info is on them doesn't mean that they are not worth starting. It is just enthusiasm for the project that makes me want it to expand so others can add on top of that. Do you see where I am coming from? Also I have not just created geo-stubs I am very capable of writing high quality articles Tashilhunpo, Potala, Ramoche Temple, Shalu Monastery which are all mine. If I had more info I would then expand the Mongolian districts into more detail.

James Janderson 08:26, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Continuing this discussion here. --Latebird 14:37, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

STUBS

First of all OH MY GOD MATE.!!! You act as if I have committed a terrible sin that is going to jeopardize the entire wikipedia!! Remember I am trying to help!!!!!!!!! I do see what you mean though and yes I agree that at present the stubs are best in the table. But you do see the way in which en-wikipedia is very Anglo centric and based around Europe and America looking outward at the world. Just because only a few basic facts can only be found doesn't mean that these places don't have stories to tell. There might be notable festivals, temples, architecture local cultures in these places which people who have a greater knowledge of Mongolia or have books on the country will be able to add to. To say that only a few basic facts will ever be revealed is quite shallow-minded. For example I remember a while back starting a geo-stub for an isolated place in Tibet very similar in isolation to MOngolia!! You would think no one would add anything but several weeks ago I had a book on Tibet and I have now made it a detailed article. Remember that wikipedia is only just beginning and people don't always expect full detailed articles yet for every entry.

I totally agree with you though that these minor stub articles should only really be started with a little bit more info though rather than the ones I created. I was being enthusiastic but I will take your advice in future to only start a stub if it has more info than just the location. ok? James Janderson 14:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, no need to panic, we're just having a conversation here. If I really thought that your stubs jeopardized Wikipedia, then I would have proposed them for deletion instead. Since I didn't do that, the situation can't be quite as dramatic. The core of my argument is just that I don't recommend to create articles ahead of time, before we have actual content to fill them with.

If you check my edit history, you'll find that I'm certainly not approaching this from an anglocentric point of view. I don't doubt that each of the 331 somon has stories to tell, some of which may even be notable enough for mentioning them in an encyclopedia. It's just not very likely that all of those stories will find their way into Wikipedia within the foreseeable future. I could actually contribute a few stories myself, but unfortunately quite often not without resorting to Original research. The difficulty is that we need to take our stories from reputable published sources. And for more than one sum, the statistical yearbook of Mongolia may be the only one of those available.

For turning the current substubs into real stubs and eventually articles, one step would be to include their names in Mongolian language. Some of the Aymags already list those in the respective tables. This page has a full list, even if it may look a bit confusing at first. --Latebird 17:35, 17 July 2006 (UTC)