Ksizov

hi Mr Sizov

if i am right, you are the president of drive square. i dont think that the wikipedia is an advertising web site. imagine if all the driving simulator firm, insert in this page their own picture of all their driving simulator???? for sure, you won't be very happy!!! so don't do things that you don't want other people do!!

regards julien

Wiki is an Information Source

Dear Julien -

I agree that Wiki should not be an advertising space. While I share your concern, I respectfully disagree with the rest of your arguments.

Non-gaming driving simulation is a relatively narrow field with a very few and somewhat reclusive players. How many non-copyrighted driving simulator pictures have you seen posted on the Net? One? Two?

I would love for every simulator maker to post their pictures and contribute descriptions. After all, this industry exists because of these companies. And every simulator is unique.

I would never object to the competitor’s postings. I even disagree with your removal of FAAC’s name, although they are our competitor. Plus, as you can see, there is already a picture posted in this article - by Lander Simulation (along with the mention of a couple others in the text). Following your logic I should have removed it.

One could also question your own professional affiliation and your zeal in removal of brand names, but I am stopping short of doing that.

There is a lot to be added to the driving simulator article. It can be done only by people with expertise in the area. Most of these people are affiliated with simulation companies. If you could ban them from adding information to this article, you would defeat the informational purpose of the Wiki.

As removal of McDonald's name from the fast food article is not going to benefit anyone, so the removal of brand names from driving simulator article will not make it better.

Rather than questioning other people's postings, I would encourage you to contribute your pieces of knowledge to the Wiki. It will be a happier place for everyone ...

Regards, Konstantin

Ok for information

Dear Konstantin,

of course i have a link with driving simulation software.

this wiki page has improved a lot from its beginning and people try to keep this page out of company name, as there is the global external link from inrets which gives an impressive list.

the aim of this page driving simulator is to explain what is the driving simulation, and not who sells what.

if you want the driving simulator can become as the one of train simulator , not interesting at all, and only a commercial page, let's continue like this...

i don't want to ban anybody adding some expertise in this area, but not adding a company name on each lane in this article could be nice.

concerning the picture, i think you are right. lets people add their own picture here..

regards julien

October 2021

Please do not add inappropriate external links to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a collection of links, nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Inappropriate links include, but are not limited to, links to personal websites, links to websites with which you are affiliated (whether as a link in article text, or a citation in an article), and links that attract visitors to a website or promote a product. See the external links guideline and spam guideline for further explanations. Because Wikipedia uses the nofollow attribute value, its external links are disregarded by most search engines. If you feel the link should be added to the page, please discuss it on the associated talk page rather than re-adding it. [1] MrOllie (talk) 15:29, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

MrOllie,

I appreciate your concern for the cleanliness of the Wikipedia pages. Driving Simulator page is not a collection of links.

However, HTML hyperlinks were invented precisely to create links to reference useful external content when it makes sense to clarify a point. Whenever it serves to enrich the content of an article, hyperlinks MUST be used.

And the Driving Simulator article in particular could use much more contributions to be useful to the reader. Sadly, it turned into almost a battleground between several brand-affiliated editors who are removing each other’s brands in the name of cleanliness of the Wikipedia. People are afraid to post to this page to not disturb the status quo. This is not productive. We need to encourage people to add to this page, not to tell them off. I personally have never objected or removed competitor’s hyperlinks. They are only useful. I would appreciate your undoing the reversals of my contributions.Ksizov (talk) 16:22, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

External links to particular vendors are not appropriate for Wikipedia, I will not be restoring it. You mention your competitors - you should know that if you are affiliated with the company you are promoting you are in violation of Wikipedia's terms of use. See WP:PAID for details. MrOllie (talk) 16:30, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

In the world of professional driving simulators 99% of the subject matter expertise resides with commercial or school brands. Therefore, any subject matter expert here is bound to be affiliated with some driving simulator brand or a school making avoiding brand names practically impossible.

My name and expertise is very clear from my handle. People in the industry know who I am. Your reference to WP:PAID is out of place and borderline offensive.

MrOllie, you are a newcomer to editing of this page. While I appreciate your willingness to help the folks here, I would like to ask you what driving simulator brand or school are you associated with? And more importantly what expertise in driving simulation are you bringing to the table? So far, I saw nothing other than reversals of other contributor’s work.

I would like to take your edits to a more public discussion. Ksizov (talk) 18:14, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

WP:COIN or perhaps WP:ANI would be the place, but I fully expect you will hear the same as what I'm telling you. PAID is a bright line rule which is a requirement set by the ownership of Wikipedia through the terms of use. You really must comply with it. MrOllie (talk) 20:16, 26 October 2021 (UTC)